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Two Activists Assaulted At Hawaii State Capitol

Hits: 16692 | Rating: (3.3) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: AtheistAlien
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
BootneckBaz
Male, 30-39, Europe
 17 Posts
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:53:06 PM
Good on you guys!

ROK9
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1838 Posts
Monday, December 13, 2010 10:18:13 PM
damn that is just wrong

Syris
Male, 13-17, Western US
 226 Posts
Friday, December 10, 2010 3:01:59 PM
"separation of church and state"

alpensepp
Male, 70 & Over, Europe
 1316 Posts
Friday, December 10, 2010 7:59:01 AM
hm. why is session of law makers opened by a christian prayer? thats wrong.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:47:51 PM
It comes across that your asserting your Nationalistic ideals upon me and my countrymen as I see so many from other countries do often. I got news for you that is what pisses off an American more. Just like you we prefer to be asked and not told.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:45:22 PM
However as I stated in my very first post on this subject. The matter has been challenged before. By our systems of checks and balances been through Hawaii Supreme Court and ruled okay for Hawaii Congress. It was challenged on Federal scale and okay'd by the US Supreme Court. it has gone it;s full route of process. There is nothing that any one who asserts such can do about it. Once the highest court rules ballgame over. Soo all this hot air of whether it's wrong or not is irrelevant. Final authority has ruled and too bad so sad for those and the rest of the world if they don't like it. sometimes the poo hits the face.

Now what sets me off is whane outsiders like to tell Americans what their rights should be. I don't mind an opinon offered but not dictated terms to which you and several from Europe seem to do. Your using Global perspevtive.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:37:16 PM
@Musuko42

Sorry not to get back sooner. Busy today. Nice to know you recognize the evils of countries.

Your trying to micro manage a Legislative process. Fact that federal congress has many times gone several days non-stop. There is no time-limit, Many states are like that as well. In Texas where I originally come from the Governor can actually lock the members of both houses into assembly until they come to a resolution on a bill. I do mean physically lock and key them inside the chamber. Crazy huh? In Hawaii The House meets for sessions in the morning and afternoons for several weeks then dismisses for the year to fly to their homes as some have outer islands. They also have no set time. It's agreed upon by motion. It will cost no more money to have an Invocation or speaker. Sometimes you need to understand that it's due to courtesy as a member of such will ask for a speaker. It is up to motion and discretion on that legislative body. A few may get bent out of shap

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:24:49 AM
Notably, when does that protester get his few minutes on that podium?

The preacher is not an elected official. He is simply a member of public. So if he's getting a few minutes to speak on that podium, then that right must also be extended to every single other member of public in that state.

Otherwise, you have to explain why that preacher gets this special right and others do not. And if it's because he's a representative of a religion...bingo, there you have a government providing a platform for a church, and supporting it.

Remember as I said before; lighting, heating/cooling, and staff wages. By providing that preacher the podium, they're providing him a free "church" and a captive audience.

Come to the land of the free, where in order to participate in your democracy you MUST sit through a religious service!

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:20:42 AM
@handys003

"I don't tell a Brit or Canadian how to live by their laws."

That's your choice not to. But you have the right to tell us how to live if you wanted to. Free speech and all that.

I'd still have the right to ignore you, and you'd have no right to actually enforce your opinion. But you have every right to express it.

And I have every right to express mine.

"Also I wouldn't have a problem if the KKK came in or Black Panthers or the Sons of Hawaii spoke to Congress. They are taxpayers and have that right."

In that case, shouldn't podium time be allowed to any and all people that wanted it? Wouldn't that end up taking a very large amount of that government's time? After all, what if a million people all wanted the same amount of speaking time as that preacher got? It would be unfair to deny them.

So tell me; why does the preacher get to speak, but Joe Schmoe does not?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:11:41 AM
"In regards to taxpayer footing the bill. It doesn't cost anything to open with a prayer or Hawaiian Chant etc.. it's still meeting in session prayer or not."

The way I see it, the meeting could have been a few minutes shorter without the prayer. That's a few minutes that can be spent doing something more productive...something that is, you know, actually to do with GOVERNMENT.

Using the time for prayer is a waste of government resources.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:10:52 AM
@handys003

"Oh and BTW I could go into a diatribe about European Colonialism and it's aserrtion of politics and wars both present and past troughout the world. It's just not the USA alone. Don't even get me started."

I didn't say anything about my own country being innocent of it, did I? I just countered handys003s assertion:

"I don't go telling subjects of the realm of Great Britain how to determine their laws or other countries the same."

Being clearly false, as that's exactly what his country DOES do. I didn't say my country does not do that.

If anything, Britain was as far greater offender, and still is (with reach only limited by ability, not desire, most likely).

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:37:51 AM
@Musuko42
Oh and BTW I could go into a diatribe about European Colonialism and it's aserrtion of politics and wars both present and past troughout the world. It's just not the USA alone. Don't even get me started.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:15:46 AM
@Musuko42
In regards to taxpayer footing the bill. It doesn't cost anything to open with a prayer or Hawaiian Chant etc.. it's still meeting in session prayer or not.

Second I agree with you on casting stones regarding my country. However I'm talking in retrospect toward individuals telling me how my rights should be interpreted in my country. I don't tell a Brit or Canadian how to live by their laws. Personally speaking I think the USA should butt out of other countries as well. Clearer now for you? Also I wouldn't have a problem if the KKK came in or Black Panthers or the Sons of Hawaii spoke to Congress. They are taxpayers and have that right.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:07:22 AM
@HalfPintRoo

"I don't understand why everyone has to make a big deal out of things. Just don't participate in the prayer. Why make a scene? Let the Christians have their fun and then move on with the serious."

Again, it's a big deal because they're being made to pay for it: the lighting, heating/cooling, and staff wages for the duration of the prayer were all effectively being spent to provide a religious service.

It's a small amount each time, but over the year it adds up. And this is during a recession, with major government budget shortfalls.

So yes, it is a big deal to have a government body engaging in non-government duties on the taxpayer's dime.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:04:34 AM
@handys003

"#1 Where is the US Congress is supporting stat-run religion? You ever heard it's just being courteous to include such as prayer?"

Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for a pointless courtesy that doesn't even include everyone present?

If the prayer was, instead, a KKK speech about white power, what then? All still okay?

"I don't go telling subjects of the realm of Great Britain how to determine their laws or other countries the same."

Ahem. Iraq? Afghanistan? Korea? Vietnam? Chile? Cuba?

You're right. You don't just tell other countries how to run themselves. You tell them and you invade them (and recently, to my lingering shame, you've been bringing my country along for the ride).

So be careful casting those stones, mister. When it comes to trying to interfere with the running of other countries, yours has one of the dirtiest records of the modern age.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:18:15 AM
@Nerd
Yes I totally believe in separation of c and s.

Second that was a mild diatribe compared to what I can release.

Nerd_Rage
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 423 Posts
Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:08:48 AM
@ handys003

Separation of church and state much? and that rant was totally unnecessary.

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:34:35 PM
Ditto to Locke357 as well

handys003
Male, 50-59, Western US
 2402 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:33:19 PM
@Musuko42

#1 Where is the US Congress is supporting stat-run religion? You ever heard it's just being courteous to include such as prayer?

#2 Who gave you authority to determine from Europe what my right is as a US citizen. Such presumption! It's also what we fought a revolution for to begin with on self-determination. We as Americans in the USA may dissent among ourselves, but Europeans have no say in determining what is our constitutional rights. Render your opinion, but don't dictate what is right to us. Got it brah!?

I don't go telling subjects of the realm of Great Britain how to determine their laws or other countries the same. I expect the same respect from others.

HalfPintRoo
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2475 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:32:24 PM
I don't understand why everyone has to make a big deal out of things. Just don't participate in the prayer. Why make a scene? Let the Christians have their fun and then move on with the serious.

IndigoIndigo
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 30 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:07:06 PM
Mixing church and state tends to lend to bad things (war, death, bias or pissing off the neighborhood terrorist). I see the point the "morons" were trying to get across, "active objection", but I disagree with the circumstance it is employed. You should only put your foot down and break the law when something important is at risk. Important, meaning your life and freedom or that of your child. Just shut the drat up and raise the matter in a civil way. If it makes you feel better, don't bow your head and give the speaker a snearing glare.
As for the guy with the camera, I have no idea. Maybe police officers instinctively don't like camera filming them as much as we would (or do).

Locke357
Male, 18-29, Canada
 128 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:40:28 PM
I don't give a poo about what the US constitution says, state-endorsed religion is effing close to being like Islamic countries

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:27:54 PM
@NoArms5534

It's not a matter of being constitutional. It's a matter of being right.

It's not right to have state-sponsered religion (it cost money to provide that platform: all the costs involved in lighting, heating/cooling, security and staff wages for the duration of the prayer), regardless of what the Constitution says about it.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33895 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:07:37 PM
@ NoArms5534 - Those guys are all dead now. See where it got them!

NoArms5534
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 195 Posts
Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:30:32 PM
Geniuses of IAB, please note that the very first meetings of the Federal Congress (you know, the one where the folks who were involved with writing the Constitution were involved) we also opened with prayer. If the guys who wrote the Constitution believe that it was okay to open Federal meetings with prayer, how could it be unconstitutional?

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