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An Arizona I-A-Ber Responds To Arizona Link [Pic]

Hits: 28964 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
xXKaryXx
Female, 13-17, Western US
 640 Posts
Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:57:23 AM
if my grandpa hadn't hidden in that truck that delivered oranges the rich guys over here wouldn't have had a million dollar house to live in

D:<

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 10:28:53 AM
@cuthere2
Also, you seem to have failed economics 101 - You call being in this country illegally victomless, yet you ignore (Yet again) the financial impact this has on Citizens

Looks like someone failed debating 101. Know your opponent. I already told you this, but I guess I'll say it again because you brought it up again. (maybe you forgot, maybe you're stupid) I'm an anarchist.

Do anarchists advocate taxes?
No.

Do anarchists advocate citizenship?
No.

So why are you using this argument against me? Sure it can work against some stupid liberal, but I'm not some stupid liberal.
If there was no citizenship or taxes this wouldn't be a problem in the first place now would it.

I already told you this in my comment on "May 01, 2010 1:54:52 PM".
SIGH - Honestly. Please, please, PLEASE try to not just read, but actually COMPREHEND what is being said.

I can taste the irony.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 10:20:06 AM
@cuthere2

If bypassing our countries laws and sneaking into our country means that individuals cannot be properly screened, and thus murders, rapists, etc. are stealing into our country, it is no longer a victimless crime.


A mexican kills another mexican in Mexico. That's a crime with a victim. That same killers sneaks in America. That's still a victimless crime despite the fact that he's a killer.

If we had secured boarders, and made it more difficult for criminals to get in, then we'd have lower crime rates now wouldn't we? Not victomless.


Yeah, you could totally argue that, but you can't say that we should socialize protection because socialism sucks and doesn't work.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 7:10:18 AM
Also, you seem to have failed economics 101 - You call being in this country illegally victomless, yet you ignore (Yet again) the financial impact this has on Citizens. Millions of people sneaking over, taking advantage of our tax payer funded services? Many are paid under the table, so they pay no taxes.

Hmmmm - Let's see:

Millions taking, taking, taking - whilst not paying into the system = not good. (Just keeping it simple for ya bud)

Victims - Crushing financial burdens supporting dozens of programs that are being abused by the entitlement mentality that is often carried over by these criminals.

So we have now identified:

Sex crimes - Theft - Violence - Gang violence - Drugs - Increased tax burdens on law abiding citizens.

All of this could be greatly minimized by proper screening and security.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 7:05:10 AM
SIGH - Honestly. Please, please, PLEASE try to not just read, but actually COMPREHEND what is being said. I cannot imagine why I would need to explain such a blatantly obvious statement as "you call it a victimless crime".

Guess I'll have to get used to spelling things out for you:

- You claimed that being here illegally is a victimless crime. Remember that? Good job, let's continue whilst we have momentum.

If bypassing our countries laws and sneaking into our country means that individuals cannot be properly screened, and thus murders, rapists, etc. are stealing into our country, it is no longer a victimless crime.

You could argue that many are not criminals, and thus it's victimless, but hey, this is the real world Anarchist, and criminals are a fact of life.

If we had secured boarders, and made it more difficult for criminals to get in, then we'd have lower crime rates now wouldn't we? Not victomless.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 6:52:49 AM
@cuthere2

See, you call it a victimless crime, yet ignore the fact that the REASON for the process is to filter out the criminals. 2,700 murders committed last year by illegals, and nearly 200,000 rapes were victimless?


Point to me the comment were I said rape was a victimless crime.

If 70% of those individuals were former criminals and would have been filtered out through proper channels, then I guess it's not a victimless crime afterall when you dodge the legal channels.


No, it's STILL victimless to cross the boarder and be here. It's NOT victimless to have committed something like murder in Mexico and hide here.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 6:50:26 AM
@cuthere2

I also find it funny that you are so naive as to claim "if they rape someone, just arrest them."


I did NOT say that. I said "If they steal from someone then arrest them." If I had said what you claimed I had said "if they rape someone, just arrest them." then that would imply that I think it's simply. I don't think that. STOP DELIBERATELY MISREPRESENTING ME!!!

So the problem is, with all these people sneaking in illegally, we don't have the capability to filter out the hardened criminals. Yet you present "just being here" as a victimless crime. Wow, what a deceptive spin on words, as no one claimed "just being here" is a crime. Now who is mis-representing Anarchist?


I would love to here your logic behind coming over here and at the same time not being here.

Besides,

-Breaking our laws by entering illegally = Victimless, therefore NOT bad

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 6:45:00 AM
@cuthere

I never commented on your stance of prosecuting.


Then why do you keep bring up things like rape if it is so obvious that I don't advocate rapists not being persecuted?

I argued against your ludicrous claim that desperation causes crimes, and that giving jobs to these people would be some sort of workable solution.


I AM TALKING TO A WALL AND HERE IS PROOF!
Read my comment at "May 01, 2010 8:26:56 PM" where I address the difference between give and allow, but since you're a wall you continue to use the word give.

Yet your vague assumption completely ignored the hundreds of thousands of victims of crimes that have nothing to do with desperation. Shall I simplify this further for you, or do you get it now?


Crimes like theft are usually the act of desperation. The fact that some crimes are not cause by desperation is irrelevant.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 4:05:01 AM
So the problem is, with all these people sneaking in illegally, we don't have the capability to filter out the hardened criminals. Yet you present "just being here" as a victimless crime. Wow, what a deceptive spin on words, as no one claimed "just being here" is a crime. Now who is mis-representing Anarchist?

Rather, I stated ENTERING THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY is a crime. Here I'll make it even easier for you:

- Immigrants following laws = Good

- Breaking our laws by entering illegally = Bad

See, you call it a victimless crime, yet ignore the fact that the REASON for the process is to filter out the criminals. 2,700 murders committed last year by illegals, and nearly 200,000 rapes were victimless? If 70% of those individuals were former criminals and would have been filtered out through proper channels, then I guess it's not a victimless crime afterall when you dodge the legal channels.

But you never considered that did y

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 3:57:14 AM

"Am I talking to a wall???"

Nope, but apparently I am, as you seem to be having extreme difficulty understanding what I just said, as you're for all intents and purposes arguing with yourself. I never commented on your stance of prosecuting. Show me where I have.

I argued against your ludicrous claim that desperation causes crimes, and that giving jobs to these people would be some sort of workable solution.

Yet your vague assumption completely ignored the hundreds of thousands of victims of crimes that have nothing to do with desperation. Shall I simplify this further for you, or do you get it now?

I also find it funny that you are so naive as to claim "if they rape someone, just arrest them."

Huh? You think it's that simple? Tons of criminals sticking around waiting for the police to show up. These people are protected and assisted in hiding from the cops by other illegals. The problem is a lot more difficult t

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 3:09:55 AM
@cuthere2

So you assume they come here and will turn over a new leaf just because a job is now available?

Most call that delusional. VIOLENT crime is the keyword here. So what happens in a recession like this one? You claimed it was lack of jobs that was feeding these crimes. So in a recession if they couldn't get a job we should just expect huge increases in murders and theft, etc from these illegals?



You can expect that from both legals and illegals. I am NOT advocating that you not prosecute people that cause crimes that have a victim. I NEVER said anything like that so again I tell you, stop trying to misrepresent my position.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 3:06:50 AM
@cuthere2

I also find your statement lacking in another area. You failed to consider that close to 70% of the illegals that commit violent crimes here in the U.S. were convicted of an average of 5 or more violent crimes in Mexico BEFORE they came to the U.S.


If they committed a crime before they came here than by all means arrest them. I'm not arguing against that. What I am arguing (PAY ATTENTION) is that the mere act of being here should not be not be a reason to persecute these people. I am also saying that if they were allowed in the white market (like any other legal person) they would be better able to enforce contracts as oppose to using violence in the black market.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 2:57:12 AM
@cuthere2

Yet out of the other side of your mouth, you now admit it does not cause sex crimes. Yet illegals rape more than 137,000 women each year. (Those estimates were years ago, they grow each year, and some estimated now top 200,000 for 08, and 09)
They molest tens of thousands of young children, etc. So if these types of crimes are NOT impacted by jobs, or no jobs, then your statement really doesn't solve the problem now does it?




Am I talking to a wall??? For the second time I tell you, just because I advocate people be free for committing victimless crimes does NOT mean that I advocate people be free for committing real crimes that actually have victims. GET THAT TROUGH YOUR HEAD. Just being here is a victimless crime. Raping someone and theft is not.

If they rape someone then arrest them.
If they steal from someone then arrest them.
Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent me?

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 2:51:52 AM
@cuthere2

Ah, so you admit that you were wrong then when you earlier claimed that if jobs were given to these illegals, then they'd be less likely to commit crimes as desperation causes crime. (A patently vague, and in this case incorrect statement)


No, I don't because last time I check theft was still a crime.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 1:44:45 AM
Anarchist, I also find your statement lacking in another area. You failed to consider that close to 70% of the illegals that commit violent crimes here in the U.S. were convicted of an average of 5 or more violent crimes in Mexico BEFORE they came to the U.S.

I posted that stat, and my sources in the other "Arizona" thread. Knowing this, your comment becomes even more laughable. The criminals are fleeing their country to avoid the law. So you assume they come here and will turn over a new leaf just because a job is now available?

Most call that delusional. VIOLENT crime is the keyword here. So what happens in a recession like this one? You claimed it was lack of jobs that was feeding these crimes. So in a recession if they couldn't get a job we should just expect huge increases in murders and theft, etc from these illegals? LOL -What a poorly thought out idea. Seems your "solution" was a lame duck as you failed to consider the implications.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Monday, May 03, 2010 1:38:03 AM
"For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking?


No, it's doesn't. Desperation causes crimes such as theft, not rape. Did I really just have to explain that??? "


Ah, so you admit that you were wrong then when you earlier claimed that if jobs were given to these illegals, then they'd be less likely to commit crimes as desperation causes crime. (A patently vague, and in this case incorrect statement)

Yet out of the other side of your mouth, you now admit it does not cause sex crimes. Yet illegals rape more than 137,000 women each year. (Those estimates were years ago, they grow each year, and some estimated now top 200,000 for 08, and 09)

They molest tens of thousands of young children, etc. So if these types of crimes are NOT impacted by jobs, or no jobs, then your statement really doesn't solve the problem now does it?

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:50:07 AM
@cuthere2

I suppose we should just let serial killers loose here in America too huh?

Just because I advocate people be free for committing victimless crimes does NOT mean that I advocate people be free for committing real crimes that actually have victims.



I could chat with you about how parental abuse causes serial killers using your logic

Make my f*cking day!

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:41:06 AM
@cuthere2

Using your logic, you want people to steal and eat other people's babies.

See? I can make BS claims too.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:40:25 AM
@cuthere2

How about vandalism, and gang violence?


They would be less likely to commit actions that create victims if they had a stable income. So yes that too.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:29:18 AM
@cuthere2
Or perhaps it's desperation for sex? I guess using your logic, it is now our responsibility to hand them over sex slaves to minimize kidnappings and rape huh?


That’s different because the state is not stopping people who want to have sex from having sex, but it is stopping people who want to have jobs and employers who want to give jobs from conducting business. So again no, I am not advocating the state to do anything, be it give them jobs or sex slaves. Both of which is a positive action. When did I advocate a positive action??????? I am advocating that the state do nothing.

But let’s use your sex analogy. Here are the conditions that have to be meant in order to make a comparison. Two people who want to have sex should have every right to have sex. The state is not allowing people who want to have sex to have sex. This causes rape crimes to go up. This is axiomatic.

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:26:14 AM
@cuthere2

For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking?


No, it's doesn't. Desperation causes crimes such as theft, not rape. Did I really just have to explain that???

AnarchistGod
Male, 70 & Over, Midwest US
 894 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:17:46 AM
@cuthere2 May 02, 2010 5:16:26 AM

For the third time you strawman me. I never said don’t blame the criminal. I said they would be less likely to enter the black market if they would allow in the white market. If you’re in the black market the only way to enforce contracts is by violence, where as if you were in the white market you can go to a court or DRO. Do you honestly not understand this?

Where are you getting this idea that I think that people who cause other people to be victims (real criminals) to not be punished?

"May 02, 2010 5:22:36 AM"

For the second time I tell you, I’M AN ANARCHIST. If I’m against state law because I’m an anarchist then what the f*ck makes you think I advocate federal law!?!? It’s one thing to disagree with me, but it’s another to not even know my position and then claim I have some sort of double standards.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 5:28:08 AM
Answer something for me Anarchist, as you seem to have put absolutely no thought into the various facets of your argument.

For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking? Is it desperation for jobs?

Or perhaps it's desperation for sex? I guess using your logic, it is now our responsibility to hand them over sex slaves to minimize kidnappings and rape huh?

How about vandalism, and gang violence? What are those individuals desperate for? Hugs?

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 5:22:36 AM
How come none of the protestors, or persons on this board whining about the Arizona law has had a problem with the FEDERAL law?

In case you failed to do your research prior to complaining, here's a list of what is handed to Immigrants straight from our government on "Your Responsiblities" (i HAVE THE SHEET RIGHT HERE)

1. Obey all state, Federal and local Laws

2. Pay Federal, State, and local income taxes

3. Register with the Selective Service (U.S. Armed Forces) If you're a male between ages 18 and 26 (See page 11)

4. Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all times

Hmmmmm... So all this yelling of "Nazi Germany, show me your papers" and how "unfair it is I must carry proof with me" and yet all along, it's been RIGHT THERE in the Federal law.

Double standards anyone? Scary how many people are uninformed.

cuthere2
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 314 Posts
Sunday, May 02, 2010 5:16:26 AM
Anarchist, so in other words, you're willing to place teh blame anywhere other than where it belongs - THE PERSON COMMITTING THE CRIME!

I could chat with you about how parental abuse causes serial killers using your logic. I suppose we should just let serial killers loose here in America too huh? Your argument is quite amusing.

The age of blame and victims huh? No one is responsible for their own actions.

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