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The Bible Gets Beaten At Its Own Game Again [Pic]

Hits: 49054 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: Funny | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
mattriesel
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 136 Posts
Monday, June 14, 2010 7:34:44 PM
I've seen this chick a few times on the Texas State campus.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11060 Posts
Friday, February 26, 2010 4:38:00 PM
There is another possible answer to bumbleBB's questions:

A couple of millenia ago, God starting watching Star Trek and decided that the Prime Directive was a good idea.

Or another answer:

God was the representative of an alien organisation that was conducting experiments on early humans or simply using them as slaves. Adam and Eve were the ones curious and intelligent enough to seek knowledge, which is what God was ordering humans not to seek, and fled the prison camp as a result. Nutjob prison camp guard dealing with what they regarded as inferior animals would explain a lot about the god of the OT.

Ugly answers, but they make sense.

Or, more being more charitable towards this god I don't believe in anyway:

Reality is a testing ground to determine the balance of good and evil. Both sides agreed to not interfere with the stuff to be tested (i.e. us). Satan cheats, of course, but God doesn't.


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11060 Posts
Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25:28 PM
Agreed Angillion...there is evidence of settling around the Nile at about 5000bc...that would be the beginning of Egyptian civilization, which I'm sure we're all aware of happened for a long time BC. They had developed irrigation at about 3000bc, so it seems that settlement however rudimentary would have begun long before that.

It seems to have been widespread by 3000BC. For example, a village of well built stone houses with a sewerage system and flushing toilets (primitive but apparently functional) has been found in Britain and dated to 3200BC. A storm in 1850 uncovered it - who knows what else is still covered elsewhere? Britain is hardly a prime contender for earliest civilisation - the ultra-fertile flood plains of massive slow-moving rivers are the most logical place for the start of farming and thus settlement.

I was surprised to find that the oldest known city is in Turkey. I thought it would be in the Tigris-Euphrates area, in what was Mesopotamia.


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Friday, February 26, 2010 3:04:41 AM
> Suicism
> If the shoe were on the other foot you would have spammed me right now

Spammed? You mean banned? Not likely, keep it under your hat (this is a Yesterday post after all, hopefully won't get read much) but the only people I ban are:

1. Asiaspammers - perm.
2. Nasty words about certain orientations - temp.
3. Blatant racism - perm or temp depending on history.

But they, weird things happen at IAB all the time - just a few days ago we had a message from a certain member who wanted us to ban him/her, because he/she didn't have the willpower to stay away from the site by him/herself. Chalk that one up in the 'weird poop' ledger I say.


Suicism
Male, 18-29, Western US
 3658 Posts
Friday, February 26, 2010 1:07:40 AM
You're damn right lionhart. If the shoe were on the other foot you would have spammed me right now.

Steven42
Male, 18-29, Western US
 173 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:34:42 PM
Faith comes from the heart, not from the mind.

bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:05:55 PM
But if God created everything, then he created the dangers "outside", and thus wanted us to know pain and suffering.

I know I'm never going to convince you it's all nothing, but as long as the answer appeal to me more like the elusive non-sequiturs of people trying to create a faith you can't pin down, then i will never be a believer.


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:02:22 PM
I don't normally post this much on any topic, but we all have a basic knowledge of the GofE story. But it occurs to me there is a lot more there than we usually see.

For starters, God physically lived, or at least visited, Eden. There was no corruption, death, evil, etc. there. There was one Tree, which Adam & Eve were quite clearly warned about. Eating from it gave them understanding of these bad things, and would make them mortal. Speculation: Maybe God Himself had to eat from that Tree occasionally to "keep up" His powers and knowledge? An interesting thought.

Either way, the two guests in Eden were told to leave it alone, and they didn't. Interesting: God didn't 'punish' them as we often think (although he did evict them from Eden for it); eating the fruit was what did it. And they were warned beforehand that it would.

So when someone says "Why did God punish mankind because of Adam?", the point is, Adam did it to himself.

Just a thought.


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:37:55 PM
Of course, THEN you get into the whole issue of "IF God knew EVERYTHING before He created it that was going to happen, then he knew Adam and Eve would eat from the TOKOGAE, so how can He punish them for it if they were pre-destined to do it anyway? For that matter, how come He created Satan if He knew beforehand what Satan would do?

There are no answers to these questions, only speculation. There are analogies you can think of, like being a parent: "(a) I can keep my kid inside, protected, never hurt but never knowing fun, or (b) I can let him play outside and know both" but none of them really answer the fundamental question. That's why the only REAL answer can be "We don't think the same way or have the same values as God does".


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:32:27 PM
> bumbleBB
> why would he not create us to be in his company. Pose no threat of evil above us, make himself apparent

Adam and Eve walked with God (physically) in Eden; he was their companion/friend and obviously 'apparent'. A tree stood there which Man was forbidden to eat from because its fruit would make him "like us" said God, knowing good from evil, but they ate from it anyway, or so the legend goes.

So all these things you say "why did God, why would He, how come He...?", WERE in the beginning, and then were not any more, because of that event.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways", declares the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:8


bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:44:21 PM
although far be it from me to tell a grown man who clearly has had a lot of discussion on the matter that he is naive. I mean by your own admission you believe despite logic. And all of your points make that clear. So kudos on your stamina and staying the course.

bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:37:16 PM
Lionhart I think you're being naive here. I understand that the entire premise is blind faith, but come on. God loves us, god creates us, so that we can endure suffering to prove that we love him, while his proof that he loves us is that he won't damn us if we follow his often arbitrary rules.

If God were what you say, then why would he not create us to be in his company. Pose no threat of evil above us, make himself apparent, and I'm sure we would all believe and uphold him. Why is it that in the history of the bible he provided so much proof of himself to so many, but now there is nothing? Why were we once deserving of proof that he existed, proof of his awesome power with his name attached to it, and now we are left to our own imaginings? God must truly be torturous, because, and I don't mean to sound egotistical here, I am a good person and I can't find the faith.


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:27:48 PM
> bumbleBB
> only if the def of GOD is omnipotence, which it isn't

Yes it is. "God" either doesn't exist at all, OR is the allpowerful, allknowing, allpresent Being who created the Universe. That's the very definition of God.

You're still stuck on YOUR (or Epicurus') definition of malevolent, justice, fair, right, wrong, etc. These human definitions can't apply to a Supreme Being; it has its own standards of right and wrong, not ours.

Consider for a second how what is absolutely abhorrent behavior in peacetime, suddenly becomes 'right' in wartime. Not only right, we give people medals for murder! Because the definition of right and wrong changes, when we're at war.

I could go into examples like parents smacking their children for their own good, etc, but the simple answer to the age-old question "Why does God allow evil?" is simply "Because he knows more than us."


bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:06:37 PM
Agreed Angillion...there is evidence of settling around the Nile at about 5000bc...that would be the beginning of Egyptian civilization, which I'm sure we're all aware of happened for a long time BC. They had developed irrigation at about 3000bc, so it seems that settlement however rudimentary would have begun long before that.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11060 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:59:38 PM
And humans, however long they roamed around, started living together in villages/cities around 3000BC.

I agree that it's not surprising that town and cities are usually where they're described as being, but I'm disputing the date. Rather surprisingly, human settlements go back further than 3000 BC. Catal Huyuk is the oldest known city and has been dated to ~6000BC. It's likely that there were villages before that - Catal Huyuk was a large settlement with stone buildings and thousands of inhabitants, which is very unlikely to have been the first human settlement. It's far more likely that there was something in between semi-nomadic hunting/gathering and city-building.


bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:49:28 PM
"Since by DEFINITION ... have power over his clay?""

I'm confused by this.

I'm going to break it down by my understanding.

You're right the first part negates itself, but only if the def of GOD is omnipotence, which it isn't.

If God is able to stop evil, then he must choose not to, making him malevolent. Although I agree that the conclusion of malevolence is somewhat subjective and not absolute, it does stand to reason that a compassionate God would choose to stop evil.

If he could stop evil and wanted to, then why would there be evil. Pretty obvious, and the only real question.

at the end we are back where we began only vice versa.

So I disagree that it is only a statement. I think it does ask a question, and I don't think the potter having control over his clay has much to do with it.

I understand the implied statement that God is malevolent as the logical conclusion.

So is God malevolent?
If not, then why does evil exist under a comp


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11060 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:57:48 PM
BumbleBB, this is not interpretation! I'm trying to explain the difference between Jewish culture two thousand years ago and culture today with information from historical scholars and biblical scholars.

You're trying to pass off a reference to all women and only women as a reference to uneducated people or a reference to women who were followers of a different religion. Not only is that interpretation, it's backwards interpretation that doesn't make sense. You're starting with a conclusion and trying to find a way of making the evidence fit it even though it obviously doesn't. Your interpretation is like claiming that a sign stating "No-one from the USA allowed in here" means that people with big cars are not allowed in there.


Lionhart2
Male, 40-49, Australia
 8285 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:45:04 PM
> Elle1970
> never seen a logical counter-argument to Epicurus' argument

I'm sure you've heard the old logic question "What happens when an immovable object is met by an irresistible force?"

For those who never worked it out, its the question itself which is at fault. An 'immovable object' is one that cannot be moved, by any force anywhere; therefore, in a universe where one exists, there cannot be such a thing as an irresistible force.

And vice versa.

Since by DEFINITION God IS omnipotent, the first part of the question is meaningless. Hence Epicurus' "question" actually comes down a statement calling God malevolent, based on the questioner's definition of the word. Since God IS all-powerful, His definition of what is good, bad, evil, malevolent, etc are unlikely to be the same as ours. Epicurus' question is answered by one simple Bible verse: "Doesn't the potter have power over his clay?"


dragonshadoz
Female, 18-29, Canada
 16276 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:06:18 PM
Ahaha! Awesome.

bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:44:24 PM
Oh wow elle. That is beautiful. thank you.

Elle1970
Female, 30-39, Midwest US
 4 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:26:25 PM
I've still never seen a logical counter-argument to Epicurus' argument against an all-knowing, all-powerful god (and it's been around over 2,000 years so it's not like no one has had time). To quote "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:29:29 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. Just because whoever posted it is fallacious is no reason to attack them. I mean it's not like they ever claimed perfection and demanded your unquestioning devotion.

evanking
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 696 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:25:12 PM
HAHAHAHAHA that guys face is perfect

'See, you dig around the Bible long enough, you can find something worth taking out of context to piss people off'

fix'd.

also whoever posted this doesn't understand the word 'contradiction'


bumbleBB
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1116 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:15:46 PM
LtFurpie, I never forget, I'm just quoting the followers.

ILikeApples
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 505 Posts
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:02:11 PM
God 101 - don't believe and preach what you read, oh by the way Christians taste funny

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