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A Christian Explains Traditional Bible-y Marriage

Hits: 7542 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: Funny | Added by: Pooptart19
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Layzale
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
 14 Posts
Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:58:50 PM
i agree.

Nataly
Female, 18-29, Europe
 71 Posts
Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:31:25 PM
*I meant davymid, of course, his point.

Nataly
Female, 18-29, Europe
 71 Posts
Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:28:15 PM
Too bad I'm late for this discussion but I couldn't help correcting you: what you try to put in the word "gnostic" needs some different expression because this one is occupied. Gnosticism was an heresy which derived from Christianity in the first centuries AD so when you call yourself or your opponent "gnostic" in this thread it seems quite laughable to me. Nevertheless your point is clear and pretty reasonable.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:10:57 AM
vv "if you are athiest, you are gnostic"

You're not getting it, are you. Re-read my previous posts. I summarise again for your benefit: Theism is to do with belief, Gnosticism is to do with knowledge. Two different things.

Anyways, this thread is dead. See you on the next debate.


xattributex
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 144 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 9:26:32 PM
I am not labeling you, if you are agnostic, then you are, but you (and your profile) said you were atheist. I was simply pointing out you cant be both, there is easy certainy til doubt...or just doubt. if you are athiest, you are gnostic..and certain til reason of doubt..plain and simple..no judging, no label..it is was it is. If you are agnostic then fine, but then you are not athiest..you see? because you are no longer certainty.. ( refer to the chart)

Theist and Atheist are the certainty beyond gnosticism. You have it backwards, if agnostic was a certainty, then it wouldn't be a doubt of, because thats not certain..there's no x and y axis, theres no rating system that narrows what you are, "doubt" and "certainty" define against each other,they aren't the same, and cannot be used on a grid with out being an oxymoron


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42:11 PM
Just reviewed the chart.

It didn't sink in, did it? Lemme help.

It's a grid. On the x axis, there's belief (Theism/Atheism). On the Y Axis, there's certainty (Gnosticism/Agnosticism).

Try again, without the arrows.


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:32:34 PM
vv "You are a Gnostic athiest, because you have reached a conclusion til point of doubt."

Please respectfully desist from defining what I am and am not. I find it bit offensive for you to label me thus. I'm agnostic. I don't know. If I release an apple from my hand tomorrow and it flies up to the sky, then we need to rethink the Theory of Gravity, and I'll happily take part in the movement.

If, on the other hand, an Angel of the Lord comes down from the sky and explains the anti-gravitational apple, then I'm the first convert to Gnostic Theism you ever saw. Bring it.


xattributex
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 144 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:25:22 PM
I made this chart of you in a cowboy hat to explain.

xattributex
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 144 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:20:30 PM
"Science is the study of the universe around us, without recourse to supernatural explanations. If you find that arrogant, then be my guest."

The arrogance isn't the definition of science, it when you replaced atheism as science. Because as we all know science is studied andcontributed by all.


xattributex
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 144 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:13:43 PM
Theism does not come into play without conclusion. Gnostic is conclusion (or knowledge), but a conclusion can't be stemmed from doubt. There for agnosticism is not a conclusion hence the word doubt.

When you reach the conclusion you have opened gnosticism which will, thus entering your thiesm or athiesm, because these are sure things. Agnosticism is not a sure thing.

You are a Gnostic athiest, because you have reached a conclusion til point of doubt. You do not doubt right now..you will though when this "irrefutable evidenc" comes. Which hasnt happend yet correct?
Even by your definition, Agnostic Athiesm would mean you base your atheism on doubt or lack or knowledge..which..I would certainly hope its otherwise right?


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:01:34 PM
Final point:

"And replace Atheism with Science = Arrogance. Science is in everything and contributed by all"

Science is the study of the universe around us, without recourse to supernatural explanations. If you find that arrogant, then be my guest.

There's a reason why most professional scientists (including me) are agnostic atheists. If you're not agnostic, you're a poor scientist. If you're not atheist, then you have the caveat of something you can't explain as "God did it!". Unfortunately, that's not how science works.

Anyways, I'm off to other things. Not trying to be arrogant (I've genuinely enjoyed the intelligent discussion, immensely), but I really have to leave this thread.

Peace and goodwill.


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 7:49:56 PM
To follow on from that:

Is atheism a noble quality? I would say no. Theism or atheiem is simply a matter of belief. Does one believe that the best way to govern a country is Republican or Democratic? That's just personal opinion, or belief.

The real nobility comes at the level of gnosticism. Am I sure that I am right, beyond reproach? The only humble, humanitarian approach to take is agnosticism. I think I'm right, but I'm open to new ideas which may change my world view. An approach, I must say, that is sorely lacking in the religious, who are overwhelmingly Gnostic Theists.

You know the line: "I'm right, we're the chosen people, you're all going to hell except for me and my team. I didn't make up the rules, God did, and while God loves you, you're still all gonna burn unless you turn to my particular branch of religion."

To me, small voice as I am, that's divisive and abhorrent in the extreme.


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 7:37:02 PM
vv "Agnostic Athiesm is a clever way to put it but its an oxymoron. Athiesm = beleive of no God Agnosticism = doubt of God. We agree, right?"

No, we don't, on two points.

1) Atheism is not a statement of "I believe of no God". Rather it's "I do not believe in God". There is a subtle, but important difference. The former is a matter of belief, or faith (e.g. I have faith that there is no God), while the latter is simply disbelief (e.g. I don't believe in God).

2) Gnosticism/agnoticism is simply stating what you factually know ("Gnostic" is from the Greek, same stem as the word "knowledge"). Hence it is quite right and proper, and not oxymoronic, to declare oneself an Agnostic Athiest. It's not trying to be clever. It's simply a statement of "I don't believe in God, but I don't know". Contrast with Gnostic Theism: "I believe in my God, and I just know I'm right."


xattributex
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 144 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 6:33:53 PM
Agnostic Athiesm is a clever way to put it but its an oxymoron.
Athiesm = beleive of no God
Agnosticism = doubt of God. We agree, right?
By definition Agnosticism cancels out the any thiesm on either end..until there is a conclusion..and that conclusion will either be thiest or athiest, make sense? Until then, the thiesm has no existence..

Ex: There is a Muslim.If in a bizarre turn of events, Christ came down and said "YOU ARE WRONG", then logically he/she would change to Christianity..but what he/she beleives at this moment is exactly that, that Islam is the one true religion..this does not make he/she an Agnostic Muslim, because they have reached their conclusion til further notice..Everybody has a point of change..agnosticism is that true doubt..

And replace Atheism with Science = Arrogance. Science is in everything and contributed by all


solobueno
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 135 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 3:46:45 PM
AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!!!!!! I'm so glad someone finally got the biblical marriage right!

Shaboobalah
Male, 18-29, Canada
 329 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 8:36:59 AM
WEll played Davy. Well played.

speedy_3909
Male, 13-17, Southern US
 363 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 7:07:28 AM
Thanks for clearing that up davymid.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 4:48:17 AM
Last one:

"Tell me what has atheism contributed to humanity?"

Interesting point. Atheism as such cannot contribute anything to society, as it is simply the default position. No-one's born Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu. We're taught how to be that way by our parents, society and religious leaders.

Atheism is vanilla. It's the starting condition. You may as well ask "What have humans ever contributed to humanity?"

But I will take it one stage further. Let's not talk of atheism, but of science. Science is the search for truth, deliberatly without recourse to supernatural explanations for phenomena. It's an attempt to understand the universe around us in purely physical, chemical and biological terms. There's purposely no religion in science. Thus atheism has very close ties to the scientific method - God, the supernatural, whatever you want to call it, is shut out.

Your question could be transposed as: "What has science ever contributed to humanity?


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 4:40:05 AM
vE, maybe you've met too many Gnostic Theists? If you're basing what to call a religion on gnosticism (e.g. you hint at "arrogance", typically a gnostic trait), then sorry mate, but you're doing it wrong.

Religion is based on people's beliefs, hence theism (a belief in a higher being). Atheism is simply a lack of belief. You're confusing atheism with gnosticism.

Hope that made sense to someone. Confused the sh*t out of me.


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 4:36:59 AM
vv "Atheism is defined by religious studies experts is a non-belief with Certainty there is no god. Agnostic people are SKEPTICAL. They believe there could be something."

No. Theism/Atheism and Gnosticism/Agnosticism are two completely separate concepts. A/Theism is to do with what someone believes, A/Gnosticism is to do what someone knows/is certain about.

It's quite possible to be an Agnostic Theist ("I believe in God/s but I admit I don't know if I'm right in believing that") or a Gnostic Atheist ("I don't believe in God/s and I'm absolutely certain that I'm right").

Personally, I'm an Agnostic Atheist ("I don't believe in God/s but I'm not sure if I'm right, I'll change my mind if/when evidence presents itself"). The vast majority of religious people worldwide are Gnostic Theists ("my God is real and is the one true God, everyone else is wrong and going to burn in hell for eternity").


Devi3000
Female, 18-29, Western US
 1527 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 4:24:43 AM
Brill!

Luet_Seer
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 46 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 3:46:40 AM
So how many people think that these stories aren't true?

Karakara
Female, 18-29, Western US
 29 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 12:47:38 AM
"...who has a more arrogant lifestyle than those who want to "prove" religions are all wrong."

As a matter of fact, I don't want to prove anything. I want to live my life as I feel it should be led, based on my own morals, and not be told constantly to believe in certain a certain diety, especially when there are so many out there. I'd rather be left alone to live my life. If I die and there is a God, well... howdy doo. There's a God. Looks like I have my proof. I can believe now.

But until then, I'mma stick with my nice little life and not force my morals on other people.


Karakara
Female, 18-29, Western US
 29 Posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 12:42:22 AM
"Tell me what has atheism contributed to humanity? Atheist want to deny the very real spirituality humanity posseses, spirituality can be seen across all cultures and nations."

On the other hand, tell me what Christianity has contributed to humanity? It's religious fanatics who start wars in the name of their god(s). It's the religious who kill people in the name of God and feel no remorse for it. It's it idea that a single religion is better or more right than another that creates such a hatred and a difference of opinion for others of differing faiths.

You say you still love me and that God still loves me if I don't believe in him. Yet you still say I'm going to hell if I don't feel like talking to a person I can't prove exists. Some people have tried to save me before, and it's absolute hypocrisy. I'll pass on your faith, thanks.


Barnk
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 480 Posts
Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:08:39 PM
God is so gay.

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