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No Credit for Creationism

Hits: 10269 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Pooptart19
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
sixclaws13
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2321 Posts
Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:47:53 AM
Also, I am adding Benjaphar to the list of tards.

sixclaws13
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2321 Posts
Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:29:10 AM
I just realized that Mjustin is a complete drating retard!

Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:03:44 AM
"but neither in Evolution nor ID have we have never observed life coming from where there was no life before or been able to recreate it."

If you're saying what I think you're saying (and it's difficult to tell because I can detect at least one double-negative in your statement), then you're saying evolution fails to address the origin of life because even with the existence of random mutation, nothing in evolution indicates we came from non-life. Okay, fair enough. But what you're missing is that IT IS UNFAIR TO CALL THIS A WEAKNESS OF EVOLUTION BECAUSE IT IS UNDERSTOOD EVOLUTION DOES NOT ADDRESS THE ORIGIN OF LIFE. Is that clear enough for you?


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:02:58 AM
"Evolution vs. Intelligent Design is focusing on the origin of life."

No it's not. Evolution was never meant to address the problem, so it's unfair to call that a weakness of evolution. Intelligent design says we were created. Okay, sure. Can they back up that claim? Can they find a creator or at least conduct an experiment that indicates some creation? No. It fails therefore completely as science.


sataide
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 7 Posts
Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:57:53 AM
"...Which is something else you failed to consider: the ability to conduct an experiment is a crucial aspect of the scientific method, something for which ID cannot account."

You are ignoring one very crucial fact. Evolution vs. Intelligent Design is focusing on the origin of life. We have never observed nor been able to recreate life coming from something that has no life. Yes, we have observed random mutations, but neither in Evolution nor ID have we have never observed life coming from where there was no life before or been able to recreate it.


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 5:59:16 PM
"The question is not has this been done, but rather is this being done."

To cement the point, it is not possible to address ID scientifically. Any attempt yields only more unsatisfying, but above all unscientific, questions.


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 5:55:42 PM
Besides that, you are wrong in assuming no one has seen random mutation. It is definitely possible to grow a culture of yeast, take the DNA of the first generation, allow the yeast to undergo several generations, and then compare the DNA from the latest generation to that of the first. Inevitably there will be variation. Why? Because the process of copying DNA is not perfect (though it is highly precise). And by the way, it is entirely possible to induce random mutation - just introduce a little UV light or radiation and the rate of mutation will increase, as is observed when comparing the treated dish to a control. Now that's science.

...Which is something else you failed to consider: the ability to conduct an experiment is a crucial aspect of the scientific method, something for which ID cannot account.


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 5:53:13 PM
Sataide, for one, the idea is not to apply the scientific method to any given concept (such as ID), but rather to gather the evidence first, form a hypothesis, etc., and only once you have a *theory* do we give it a name. Religionists started with a name and idea that was already consistent with their beliefs, and *then* asked that it be taught as science. Notice the difference?

REBELComx
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 477 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 3:46:05 PM
Modern man's greatest folly is to cling to the notion that he was created by gods and to forget that it was actually the other way around.

sataide
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 7 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 3:15:49 PM
OK, let's apply the scientific method to ID.
1. Recognition of the problem: The origin of life
How did life begin?
2. Collection of data: What do we know about life
In our observations life has only come from life. We have never seen or created life coming from something without life.
3. Formulation of hypotheses: As far as I can see there is only one explanation
Life was created by a series of circumstances and stimuli that we have never seen or observed.
Possible explanations:
(a)random mutation (we haven't seen it or created it, but it fits the facts as we know them)
(b)intelligent design (we were created by an entity greater than anything we have observed (again we haven't seen it or recreated it, but it fits the facts as we know them)

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11341 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 2:56:25 PM
It is not that ID automatically negates scientific reason. It is that in practice it does. It is implemented as anti-science masquerading as science in order to undermine and corrupt science.

Essentially, it's a weapon for opponents of science to use against science.

It doesn't have to be, but it is.

Apply the scientific method to ID and it fails. "God did it but we won't name God" isn't really science, and that's what ID is. Not only that, but it's a specific god - the Abrahamic god (Judaism, Christianity and Islam).


sataide
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 7 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 2:31:20 PM
What I would like to know, is why people think that intelligent design automatically negates scientific reason? In the words of Oliver Cromwell, "think it possible that science can be mistaken." Science has and will be mistaken. To say that intelligent design is untrue is completely ignoring scientific method. Scientific method is (according to Websters): Principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
The question is not has this been done, but rather is this being done.

lolkylewtf
Male, 13-17, Western US
 71 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 12:37:49 PM
Ha, this is why I love America.

Benjaphar
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 105 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 12:21:45 PM
My new catchall explanation seems to raise a few eyebrows. "The Lord works in mysterious ways." I use it to explain why I'm late for work, why all the ice cream is gone, or why the "evidence" indicates my story might not be accurate.

ladygem
Female, 13-17, Eastern US
 44 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 8:59:08 AM
well I go to a private Catholic school, and I see no problem with collages refusing credit if the classes arn't up to their standards. We learn about our religion in religion class and science in science class. It's not that hard to separate the two.

itsallfake
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 475 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 8:46:31 AM
And this DOES have to do with that because as i see it, people are using religion as an excuse to not further their education because really they don't want to. It's easier to say that "because god said so" or "because god did it" than to spend a year or more studying the actual cause. Let's be honest, evolutionary science is hard. There are millions of factors that go into it, we are discovering new "why's" almost daily it seems, and they are all pieces to a larger puzzle. It's just easier to say "because god put them here" than to have to learn about causes of mutation or environmental conditions.

itsallfake
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 475 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 8:33:26 AM
My opinion: If your going to send your child to a school that teaches religious views over known sciences and history than you best be prepared to send them to a college that teaches the same thing. Also you should explain to your child that you views of history, science and the world in general is a view based on religion. Dont fool your children, or lie to them as they will find out one day for themselves, and when that day comes you don't want them resenting you for it. Many Americans argue: "What's the point? We don't use this stuff in the real world anyway" and my counter argument is this: If our society willingly chooses to not further its education, if it willingly refuses to do more than what is necessary to just slide by and survive, then our society can never and will never be the best in the world. Americans are constantly being ridiculed by the world for being stupid and lazy and i think this has to do with that.

DeadlyLegion
Male, 18-29, Europe
 455 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 5:37:59 AM
Evolution > Creationism

Oshidutako
Male, 18-29, Western US
 276 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 12:31:26 AM
Holy F*ckface 25 pages of comments O.O!?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11341 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 12:09:57 AM
"Expelled" is inaccurately named. "Failed the entrance exam" would be a more accurate title.

If anyone who believed it would like to email me with their bank details and send me US$5000 in cash, I have US$30M in a shipping crate in Lagos that I'd like to share with you.


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11341 Posts
Monday, August 25, 2008 12:06:38 AM
Vindictive: An omnipotent god could easily create an entire universe for just one species of people on one planet, like getting an activity play mat for a toddler.

The rest of your questions are essentially the same - if a god exists, why don't they intervene all the time? It could be because they think that would be more harmful to humans in the long run. Star Trek Prime Directive sort of thing.


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Sunday, August 24, 2008 8:42:45 PM
Certainly: Angilion. There from page 2 to as recent as 24. Now that's dedication.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12073 Posts
Sunday, August 24, 2008 8:20:05 PM
Well, I say goddam. I'm out in the field for one day away from the intertubes (collecting preCambrian fossil samples, appropriately enough)and look what I miss.

Before I go scanning, Overmann, gimme a preview-any potential medalist material amongst these 25-odd pages?


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Sunday, August 24, 2008 8:16:12 PM
You bought it hook, line, and seeker, sataide. Dawkins was, as one says, bending over backwards to accommodate Stein. He was saying that *if* ID was the case, it'd be most likely that life formed on a meteor that hit Earth. That doesn't mean Dawkins was saying he believed the Earth was seeded. He is ever much the evolutionist he's always been. Check his site if you don't believe me.

sataide
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 7 Posts
Sunday, August 24, 2008 7:35:16 PM
The conclusion of one of the greatest opponents of I.D. and one of the most respected "evolutionary" scientists...we were seeded on the earth by aliens. Good to know there is rational debate. I'd hate to think that the rhetoric delivered here would be indicative of academia at large.

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