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Teen Treated by Faith Healer Dies

Hits: 12112 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: littlemissqt
Page: 1 24 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 3:00:34 PM
What's more tragic is that the child was of legal age to refuse medical treatment without the consent of his parents... and that's exactly what he did. The child refused, of his own volition, to refuse proper medical treatment. I say 'of his own volition' but I suspect the child had no decision-making skills that were not overridden by his parents to reflect their own twisted beliefs.

When something beneficial happens, it's a miracle. When something tragic and painful happens, it's God's Will. Even with this incoherent inconsistency, the belief that God is benevolent persists. So far, the only conclusion I've been able to come up with is that (and I'm bending over backwards, mind you) if God existed, he doesn't give a flying f*ck either way.

"The two are probably best when combined."

Funny. Whenever I've noticed the two combined, faith always tended to want to overrule science, much as it wants to do so now in the education system.


LtFurpie
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1019 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:55:26 PM
"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
-D. Adams

StefanM
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 63 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:48:39 PM
"Of course, no "original" txts actually exist."

You're definitely right there...

"All we have are [relatively] newer copies of older pieces. And since for it's first 600 or 700 years of existence, only Clergy were allowed to actually read the Bible, who knows what got changed."

Actually, we have copies of the gospel of Matthew dated back some time between 35 and 70 years after the death of Christ, and the accuracy of our modern copies to this are within the 98th percentile. Technically speaking, the New Testament is the most accurately copied document in history.

"All religions are subject to corruption by politics and vice versa..."

Again, you are most certainly correct.

"when science and logic became more popular and the church lost it's grip on power."

The Church was much more a political organization than a religious one at the time (in so far as Papal authority was regarded as superior to Biblical authority).


Nidonemo
Male, 18-29, Western US
 9216 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:40:28 PM
Guys, faith and prayer are wonderful things, but science is also there to help. It's not an evil thing. The two are probably best when combined.

Science to analyze the problem and heal it, and faith and prayer to speed the process along.


ohthedrama
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 162 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:38:54 PM
"More proof that religion is stupid."

Religion isn't stupid...people are stupid. Everybody seems to feel that all terrible things happen because of religion...at mostly on this sight it's narrowed to Christians.

"as in 2000 years of suffering, persecution, famine, wars, and hangings wasnt enuff."

All that was happening long before 2000 years...

Also you don't need religion for ALL of the things mentioned. Religion is a powerful tool all too easy to abuse, but the actual point of religion has NOTHING to do with causing said suffering on others.


eleutherarch
Female, 13-17, Europe
 1005 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:31:19 PM
o_o If I was sick I'd...y'know...take medicine.
Don't most Christians just take medicine too unless they're really serious about their religion?

SwissNipsUK
Male, 18-29, Europe
 770 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:25:55 PM
GOD DOESN't EXIST ! why does no one listen , how can god exist and all the other religions be wrong , Medicine works people , my nans just had leg surgery so that kind of proves it , if she didn't she would have died !

ukulelemike
Male, 40-49, Western US
 129 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:24:48 PM
As far as hitler wanting to kill all the Jews, pretty much everybody hated the Jews at that time-Hitler was just the one who decided to do something about them. The extreme was he dealt with them was far beyond anything anyone else could approve of, which is why the world collectively pitied them and allowed them to reclaim Israel for their home. Everyone hated them ,just a little less that Hitler-no one else wanted to see them killed off completely, just didn't want them in the neighborhood.

Faith healers are scam artists out to make a buck out of poor and stupid people who foolishly place their faith in a person's claimed ability to heal, rather than in Christ alone for salvation. God gave men gifts of knowlegde and wisdom, as well, and with these, cures and teatments can be found for diseases. I don't like a lot of what goes on in medical circles, and most drugs will kill you while only masking the symptoms of a disease, but doctors certainly do have many good uses as well.


catbarf
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1314 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:18:10 PM
"Was it really a miracle? Was it just the placebo effect? Was it a scam? You get the idea."

See the picture I posted on the previous page.


ukulelemike
Male, 40-49, Western US
 129 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:12:24 PM
If these people just read their bibles, they would see that neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever healed anyone who was already a believer in Christ. There is a reason for calling it 'faith' healing-not because you need faith to be healed, but because the primary purpose of it is to bring faith in those who are healed. As well, while I know of a very few verifiable cases, generally healing was an apostolic gift, which ended with the death of the final 12 Apostles, an office which has not continued in the churches, as it was a unique office, for the beginning of the church age.

REBELComx
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 477 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:00:49 PM
If we were study the original Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic texts, most of the Bible would be interpreted VERY differently than the church has for the past 1700 years. Especialy the Greek parts since Greeks often used the same word to mean 5 or 6 related but very different things. Of course, no "original" txts actually exist. All we have are [relatively] newer copies of older pieces. And since for it's first 600 or 700 years of existence, only Clergy were allowed to actually read the Bible, who knows what got changed. All religions are subject to corruption by politics and vice versa, hence the attempt to separate the two during the Age of Enlightenment when science and logic became more popular and the church lost it's grip on power.

StefanM
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 63 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:50:33 PM
"The problem Stefan is that people like this story is about DO think the bible is a scientific document. But any intelligent person can disprove that. In TWO separate passages, it refers to bats as types of birds and says that insects have only 4 legs. "

Actually, if you study the original Hebrew and context of the passages, you come to some interesting conclusions about those otherwise grossly inaccurate statements. Unfortunately, I don't have the resources on hand to cite, and I don't like quoting out of context, so for the moment I can't support my claim in this forum.

The problem with these people is their extremist interpretation of the Bible. That does not, however mean that there is a problem with the Bible itself - which is my point overall.


xiquiripat
Male, 18-29, Western US
 2419 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:47:50 PM
I think it's funny how most christians have never even read the Bible and then get bent all out shape when someone who has read it and thinks it's total bull.

Zombieoficer
Male, 13-17, Southern US
 74 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:46:39 PM
So... they got their head slapped by a loud man in a suit and thought they were fine?

...Without thinking they had ANY need at all, to go to any sort of actual doctor, whatsoever?

I mean, I'm all for religion and stuff, but the day God comes down from heaven and punches me in the face is the day I'll beleive 100%.


AlfishKK
Female, 18-29, Western US
 786 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:42:49 PM
Like people don't die after treatment from qualified doctors, either. I think faith healing is a load of crap, but I'm sick of hearing the same headline over and over.

REBELComx
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 477 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:42:16 PM
The problem Stefan is that people like this story is about DO think the bible is a scientific document. But any intelligent person can disprove that. In TWO separate passages, it refers to bats as types of birds and says that insects have only 4 legs.

marencolleen
Female, 18-29, Western US
 527 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:40:40 PM
we had this happen in my hometown about a decade ago except with extreme jehovas witnesses or something. the girl was 15 and had the flu. her parents were extremists and prayed through it even though the girl wanted to go to the hospital and her siblings tried getting her away from her parents. she died without her last rights so her parents refused to give her a real burial so she was put in the pauper cemetary with a county marker.(siblings got pissed, exhumed her, and gave her a real burial btw)

StefanM
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 63 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:38:23 PM
(cont.)
However, we can use science (archaeology, history, etc.) to verify certain aspects of the Bible such as cities, governors, and so forth. Likewise, the Bible touches on certain scientific truths (the debate 'twixt creationists and evolutionists aside) such as the concept of a finite universe that had a beginning. For centuries, Bible-believers were criticized for their ideas about the universe having a beginning. It was thought to be infinite and static. Then, with Einstein's general relativity and the discovery of CMB and red-shift, science came to the conclusion that the universe did indeed have a beginning and was expanding.

Now I'm just rambling, though. I don't remember the point I was trying to make.


StefanM
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 63 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:34:13 PM
"Why is it that the religion versus science debate happens on scientific posts...but not on stories like this, where people who have more faith in God than science wind up loosers[sic]?"

Actually, the debate does carry over into these subjects. Imagine if the child had recovered, and the parents proclaimed a miracle. For that matter, what about supposed miracles of more astonishing feats (such as people regaining eyesight, hearing, mobility, etc.) Do people automatically accept these occurences as intervention by some god? Some do, but most certainly not all. Then the debate begins. Was it really a miracle? Was it just the placebo effect? Was it a scam? You get the idea.

Though I don't agree with the concept of NOMA (non-overlapping magisteria) as a whole, it should be noted that there are some truths which cannot be known through science (free will for example). Likewise, the Bible is not a scientific document.


itsallfake
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 475 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:25:26 PM
oh, and just to stir up the fire a bit... Why is it that the religion versus science debate happens on scientific posts like a frozen mamoth, but not on stories like this, where people who have more faith in God than science wind up loosers? It almost seems like the only tactic the religious has is to attack science. Here we have a story about people who obviously were faithful to their god even to the point that saying the most basic medical science is a slight against god that they wouldn't even take their own child to a doctor for some antibiotics which would literally have saved his life, but they held onto their faith and their belief so much, that they sacrificed their child for it. That's some faith right there, they took up that banner against science and they ran with it. No doubt with the amount of faith they hold, they are happy their child is in heaven with jesus. Rejoice!

itsallfake
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 475 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:13:19 PM
But isn't the point of a faith healer? Because the faith healer is supposedly strong enough in faith to be able to heal? I mean, unless i am totally guessing wrong, a faith healer heals other people... through faith...

Turnshroud
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 6414 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:06:44 PM
I think the kid who suffers knows that their relatives prayers do him or her nbo good in these instances unless them themselves beleive

itsallfake
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 475 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:03:47 PM
Yep, pretty much hear about this type of thing once or twice a year. Personally i think this kind of thing happens more, but either the media, or the family keeps them hushed. After all the media has to balance itself between these stories and someone seeing jesus on a cracker, or the virgin mary on a hotel stain... The ratio of those news stories keep about the same on an anual basis. Scary thought for the moment: Do you think the kid held as much faith as his family right up to the moment he died, or do you think as he got closer and closer to death and he saw the family's prayers werent working, that he got scared and lost faith? Which do you find more tragic? Your last breath wondering why God doesn't love you enough to heal you, or realising this might all just be superstitious horse crap?

kimberly163
Female, 18-29, Canada
 434 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 1:00:21 PM
So he's related to that other girl that was posted here for THE SAME REASON a couple of months ago!!!!

REBELComx
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 477 Posts
Friday, June 20, 2008 12:59:18 PM
I also find it funny that, while trying to create a perfect race, Hitler went and made the French and the Polish members of his empire...

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