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Update on Papers Please (Circuit City Guy)

Hits: 14558 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: buddy
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:19:23 PM
Oh for f sake. Yes, he called the cops. My point was that any involvement of law enforcement on their end was a moot point since they had not witnessed a theft going on. He was calling because he felt he was being unlawfully detained.

And Digitalmatse thank you for leaving as you have not had any points to make beyond "Ooo you make me mad you bad man", good to be rid of someone like you.

BubbaLuvSpon you really don't think before you type do you kid?

"theft is a felony, and therefore you don't have to witness it to arrest"

Lovely.. so if something is stolen in a store, they can arrest EVERYBODY in the store? What, they can't? They need PROBABLE CAUSE? Like, say a witness or a video tape? God you are fing stupid to say something like that. There is no expectation to produce a receipt after you leave the cashier unless you choose. There is no LAW that requires it. Thus it's your RIGHT to not obey a request for it. Simple, even for you kid


swtdreams285
Female, 18-29, Western US
 1434 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:01:36 PM
Well the caption told me all I wanted to know. Nice.

digitalmaste
Male, 13-17, Canada
 123 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:57:02 PM
I guarantee that you will have some insults thrown at me after this is posted which just strengthens my point. If you ever find a way to talk in a calm way, then maybe you will be less hated in this discussion forum. Have you noticed that even the people who agree with your side have not sided with you? Try to figure out why that is...

digitalmaste
Male, 13-17, Canada
 123 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:55:25 PM
"Since they denied that he stole anything, they basically called a cop for no good reason"

That quote right there shows me that you didn't understand what had happened at all. The store did not call the police, he called the police to let the store leave.

And as for this "debate" I'm just going to leave it because you simply do not know how to conduct a debate. It is to argue points in an intelligent and respectful way, which you clearly have not shown. It was interesting how you completely ignored my point about your arrogance, which tells me that you do not care about it or feel that it is justified in some way. Kid, you need to learn how to properly debate before you start. The reason there are a majority of people here who feel that you are annoying is because of the way in which you speak, NOT the point that you are arguing. Until then, I'm just going to stop now because this is pointless.


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 3:37:32 PM
Look here dippoo... In OH it's "Reasonable Cause"... that means, if the average person, by means of the suspects actions, would have reason to believe that he may have stolen something. Then they can detain him for further investigation. There's a difference. We don't know excatly what his actions were in that store, so we can't say that they didn't have reasonable cause, can we? We have one side, HIS... and forgive me if my opinion is that his story might be a bit bias.

The store did not call the police, the jackass called the police... FYI

Just a side note... theft is a felony, and therefore you don't have to witness it to arrest. If I see a man standing over another man in a side alley, the man on the ground is bleeding, the man standing is holding a gun. You didn't see him shoot the guy. You heard a shot, the picture you see resembles that of a murder scene. What do you do? Murder and theft are both felonies.


HylianNinja
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1351 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07:24 PM
FREE FALLIN'!

YEAH, I'M FREEEEEEEE!


FREE FALLIN'!


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:05:31 PM
BubbaLuvSpon,

An anology is if someone bumps into me in a store and then I notice my wallet is missing.. so I tackle and detain the person who bumped me. After all I noticed my wallet missing after they bumped me, reasonable that they took my wallet right? So when the cops show up and find out that he does NOT have my wallet I could face charges of illegally detaining someone and possibly assault.

You have to SEE someone steal an item have probable cause for a citizen's arrest. Suspicion is not enough. You will notice that we do not try people because we suspect them of a crime, we need proof, wether an eye witness or a video tape. You should note in this case they dropped all charges because they lacked either of those things, that is the lesson here.

You are free to not show your recipt, go to 12 different cashiers and exit without being detained. If they see you steal something fine, call the cops and detain you. Otherwise step aside.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:02:38 PM
Bubbalove,

Listen to legally detain someone you have to have probable cause.. Saying NO to a receipt check is NOT probable cause. The law requires that you SEE the person place something in their pockets (or wherever they hide something)and then attempt to leave the store. Unless you are trying to assume that between the cashier and the exit this guy magically stole something.

He also ASKED the store if he was being accused of theft, and they said NO. Still they called the police. Since they denied that he stole anything, they basically called a cop for no good reason. This led to the cop showing that he did not know the law very well when it comes to identification requirements.

Probable Cause is in place to avoid the mentality you have, which is simply if you suspect someone you can detain them.


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:00:29 PM
That would not go well with me. THAT'S why I asked that question! You throw around the words that you do, and then accuse others of being an internet bully. You talk down to people, and you throw insults around with your keyboard, that you sit in front of all day long. What do you call that??

BTW... say hi to Mommy and Daddy for me


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:57:00 PM
Anyone over the age of 16, I believe, must have some kind of government ID. Don't quote me on the age though, since it's been some time since I've read that particular statute. So, when the officer requested an ID, during the course of his investigation, it was a lawful request. Not following that lawful request is obstruction. Again, that's IN law. I couldn't find the specific law addressing that particular issue for Ohio.

Lastly, my previous statement about punching you in the face. I was simply asking a question. I was taking a poll of people who would like to punch you, due to your arrogance. I was quite surprised when nobody else spoke up, although I have a feeling there are several who would jump at the chance. Even though I'm not a violent person, by nature, I think you could easily bring that out in me. Judging by your words, I'm thinking you are the type of person who would be inclined to get into a person's face while throwing around your idiotic talk.


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:50:16 PM
Soooo... you want me to address the issues. Here's the issue. According to the Ohio law that I read, when an employee of a business has reason to believe that a person has shoplifted, they have the right to detain that person. Now, before you go spewing off at the mouth, and say they didn't have any reason to believe, we don't know that. All we know is that he purchased two items at two different registers, and would not allow the viewing of his bag or the reciept. Did he, without knowing, have the same pattern in the store of a shoplifter? We don't know. Is it possible? SURE! So, if the employee had a reason to believe he was a shoplifter, he could LEGALLY detain that person for further investigation.

The other matter, the police and the ID. I could not find a definitive answer in OH law on this one. I do know that, in Indiana (if you ever want to visit, let me know), if an officer requests an ID during his investigation, and you refuse, you're going to jail.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:58:11 AM
BubbaLuvSpon,

Again kid thanks for trying. You ignored the point I make about you saying you wanted to hit me in the face, thus you are an internet tough guy. Really nice job not addressing this issue because you are a cowardly little waste of time.

Also thank you for not addressing my points about civil rights, awareness of the law and the concern over corporate intrusion into personal privacy. Continue to stick your pudgy fingers in your ears and spew a load of crap because you are too cowardly to admit your an idiot and internet tough guy.

Thank you for reminding me of why I post, because retards like you have no ability to address issues without going off target and whining and stamping your feet because you have nothing intelligent to argue or say. Thanks kid :)


jonas2378
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 2 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:05:11 AM
continued:

Tell him to speak with his attorney. The story reflected exactly what his attorney said, and he said it at least four times. In fact, he said that it was very important that I say that the police did no wrong.
I attempted to reach Mr. Righi several times and he told me to speak with his attorney. THat’s what I did.
Please note, Mr. Righi has NOT contacted me and said there was a problem. His attorney has not contacted me either. Perhaps he’s trying to save face on his blog.
Mike Sangiacomo
(Sangiacomo being the writer of the article claiming Mr. Righi - through his lawyer - was insistent that the PD did nothing wrong.)

In short (again regardless of how I feel about what happened), it is important to gather info. from as many places as possible before making a call on what really transpired.

Also - that was my first time taking a quotation from another site . . . I had no idea all those punctuation characters would come


jonas2378
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 2 Posts
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:01:20 AM
Here is simply a question:

Regardless of how I feel about Mr. Righi's actions on the matter with CC OR the Police, do we really know all the facts to the case? Of course we can read what has been written by this person - but that information can be totally one-sided. My point is that it would be interesting to understand EXACTLY what took place (info. from all sides), as well as know EXACTLY what the applicable laws are (as they differ for each state on presentation of identification).

Several people posted comments regarding Mr. Righi's assertion that his local newspaper "lied" when reporting that he “agreed that a police officer did nothing wrong in arresting [me] after [I] refused to show [my] driver’s license.â€

When these people (again supposedly, because I did not do it myself) contacted the newspaper they were given this response:


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 11:27:56 PM
Iamnotbored2... I'm just going to point out a few things, then I'm done with you... KID!

I made this observation while reviewing the posts on this topic. Of your 56 posts on IAB, 25 of them have been on this topic. Without doing the math, it appears that you've posted, on average, a comment about every 20 minutes. With that in mind, I'm going to try to help you out...

Look around you... go ahead... look. Do you see a doorway? Open that door and take a look at those stairs. See if you can gather up the courage to walk up those stairs. When you make it to the top, say hello to Mom and Dad, and ask to borrow their paper. (Assure them they can finish their crossword when you're done) Turn to the back of that paper, and there you'll find listings for jobs AND apartments. I'm sure Mom and Dad will miss you living in their basement, but it's for the better. I know, it's a scary thought. Here at IAB, we'll stand behind you! We'll miss all of your superior postings, but we'll be fine.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 10:08:14 PM
digitlmaste,

Please just don't waste anyone elses time. You whine and whine about this guy wasting peoples time. You lack the intelligence to understand that your rights should not be given away just so you can leave a store 10 seconds quicker. If you wish to give in to whatever corporations ask of you then fine kid, do it. But for gods sake stop your unintelligent rambling about how unless EVERYBODY stands up for their rights then the individuals are wasting their time. How about you go back to middleschool and start looking over the huge number of individuals in this country that have changed the laws and public awareness of them.

And thank you for ignoring my points about the new awareness of the police about identity requirements, the awareness of the public about the right to leave a store without illegal detainment and the awareness that private property does not mean the store can do anything it wants.

Feel free to whine some more and ignore my valid points.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 10:03:24 PM
digitalmaste,

Well if you truly believe it is a waste of time to be proven "right" when it comes to your rights as a citizen, well that says it all. God forbid if a citizen is aware of his rights and chooses not to roll over when confronted with authority figures. Thank god we have people like you who value expendience of a SHOPPING EXPERIENCE over your RIGHTS AS A U.S. CITIZEN.

Your pathetic sheep mentality of "it can only change if many cases such as this arise and this law becomes public knowledge. If/Until that happens and all of America knows not to check a person's bags as they leave, I will continue to see this as a wasteful effort."

Well you moron how can many cases occur if NOBODY EVER TRIES you idiot? Care to explain the logic? Oh wait, there IS NONE. If people like him NEVER TRY, then we will never see change you retard. If you spent any time looking at our legal history, it is single case precidents that help change the law.


digitalmaste
Male, 13-17, Canada
 123 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 9:51:18 PM
And btw, there are a lot of other things than "pointing out fallacies in peoples logic and statements" that make you arrogant. There's your condescending tone, the fact that you constantly say "kid" etc.

digitalmaste
Male, 13-17, Canada
 123 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 8:51:06 PM
I still think that it was unnecessary to waste that much time on such a frivolous matter. The time taken to fight this battle on a reason such as this does not gain him anything but the feeling that he was right and to me anyone that wastes their time.
And to the fact that this case has opened other people's minds, I do not think that the general public would get into a long legal battle such as this just to prove a point to a store and some police. If they go to another store, this will reoccur and it can only change if many cases such as this arise and this law becomes public knowledge. If/Until that happens and all of America knows not to check a person's bags as they leave, I will continue to see this as a wasteful effort.

Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 7:39:04 PM
BubbaLuvSpon,

Yes I do assume you are a internet tough guy. You indicated that you would like to punch me if possible. Well kid the use of violence is an act of toughness. Since you are typing on the internet, where you have 100% anonymity you can post offensive and threatening comments like that without me anyone nearby to call you on it kid. Thus you are acting like a internet tough guy, simple enough to follow even for someone slow like you.

As for my arrogance, if pointing out fallacies in peoples logic and statements is arrogant, so be it. Rather that then a weak minded nancy boy like you kid.


BubbaLuvSpon
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 158 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 7:10:40 PM
Well, Iamnotbored2, don't assume that just because someone makes a comment such as mine, that they are an "internet tough guy".

Also, just to clear things up, your self-proclaimed "smarts" is not what makes the thought of hurting you so appealing. Your arrogance is what brings on the thoughts of violence.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 6:20:43 PM
DigitalMaste:

And please do not respond that you do not care if it was legal or not the guy was a jerk. If you feel that way fine, I prefer to know what is legal and what is not as opposed to the guys mental state. Frankly you do not know him and neither do I, he may be a jerk or a saint. The issue has always been with legal aspects of this case

The case has opened many peoples eyes to what their rights are, the laws regarding illegally detaining someone and what officers can ask for in terms of identification. If you truly think those 3 things are a waste of time then you are clueless and sad as I think you are. Better men and women then you have given up a great deal of time to ensure that the rules of law in these areas are clear. To suggest that they wasted their time shows a juvenile mind.


Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 6:08:36 PM
DigitalMaste:

No it proved quite a bit. It proved that you do NOT have to show anything after you make a legal purchase. It shows that store's policies do NOT trump individual rights. It also proved that some police are ignorant of the laws they uphold. You assume this guy did it BECAUSE HE CAN, well yes he did it because he could. He also may have just not wanted to reach into his bag or wallet, he may have been in a hurry (he had family waitin for him). Whatever the reason, he was correct in terms of the law and that is what matters. The sad fact that you say "did not prove anything" shows how ignorant you are.

Care to argue? The store now knows it cannot detain or intimidate folks for not showing receipts. The cops, and I assure you the whole department, has been reminded that a Drivers ID is not required when you are not driving and that you only need to provide name, address and soc. security.

And of course that individual rights are not trumped by store policy.


digitalmaste
Male, 13-17, Canada
 123 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 5:58:25 PM
I dont see what the big deal is, its an extremely small insignificant thing, and the police invading your house for 15 seconds isn't a good comparison to this simply because a house is not as insignificant as a bad of groceries. There are private things in your house that you would not want to show other people and they would not know about it anyways. A bag of stuff you bought in a store isn't a big deal because it is stuff you just bought, and the people have seen it anyways. Don't get me wrong, it is still illegal, but its a ridiculous thing to not show something that you JUST BOUGHT. It's just the guy being conceited, doing something JUST BECUASE HE CAN. It would be much simpler to show the guy the bag, cause less trouble for everyone with a much simpler result.
What did he get from his lawsuit? A lot of time and money wasted, that's what. They still got to check the bag, and the cop still saw his license.
It was a waste of time that did not prove anything.

Iamnotbored2
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 93 Posts
Monday, September 24, 2007 5:30:14 PM
BubbaLuvSpon,

I would love to meet up with you internet tough guy, I am sure the sight of your blubbering ass hauling itself outside for the first time in years would be a sight, much like a pale white whale beaching itself on the shore.

Also nice to see since you can't come up with any intelligent answer your resort to "Huh, this feller is smart, we should hit him". Good show kid.


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