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What Evolution Left Behind On Humans

Hits: 39278 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: Science | Added by: Snoogans
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Mrpetrock
Male, 13-17, Australia
 1 Posts
Friday, May 16, 2008 8:29:34 AM
"And congratulations most of everyone on remaining fairly mature through 14 pages of posts."

and it ends....

NinjaChiibi is an ignorant, lazy, idiot


Alcippe
Female, 13-17, Canada
 131 Posts
Monday, July 30, 2007 7:44:06 AM
^Sorry, by sentence I ment post.

Continuing my train of thought on this matter, it would make more sense if a fish and a lizard were cousins, than a lizard being a direct decendant of a fish. Somone please correct me if im wrong though. It just seems to me that it works out better for the laws (or at least how Ive interpreted them) if there was a single type of creature way long ago who had some offspring which went on to mutate into what is now crustaceans, some of its offspring mutated into Fish, some mutated into amphibians, and from the amphibians into terrestrial lizards? Rather than a lizard coming from a fish. If they were all descended from one central creature, million of years ago, it would explain how they can have traits today which bring them together, and have developed further mutations such as the diverse species, and labryinth organs. Im just thinking online now though.

And congratulations most of everyone on remaining fairly mature through 14 pages of posts.


Alcippe
Female, 13-17, Canada
 131 Posts
Monday, July 30, 2007 7:24:58 AM
NinjaChibi said:
Sure they show me a fish and then another species of fish with some different lungs. But still the lungfish is still a fish. It isn't a lizard. It's STILL the same species just a different variety.

I feel I must point out that you contradicted yourself in that sentence. A lungfish cannot be both "another species of fish" and "STILL the same species just a different variety". The only time that a different variety occurs within a species is as a breed. This also almost always only occurs in domesticated animals such as the horse, cat, rabbit and dog which have developed recognizable breeds through selective breeding (and unfortunately culling) performed by humans.

'King Phillip Came Over For Good Spaghetti'
'Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species'

The lungfish is a seperate species, but is a member of the same KPCOFG as mulitple other living beings. i dont know how far up the chain a fish becomes a lizard cousin though.


joeyhndc
Male, 18-29, Canada
 335 Posts
Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:07:44 AM
If you want a practical exmple of evolution at work, one that was well documented and has undeniable proof, try the peppered moth story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_mo...
It went from white, to black, and then to white again. You may argue that one of those was caused by 'less genetic information', but the reverse also happened, so somewhere, genetic information had to be added.
That's my rant. Thank you and goodnight.

joeyhndc
Male, 18-29, Canada
 335 Posts
Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:02:09 AM
Thus, the population's ears would get pointier and pointier on average over succesive generations.
Now imagine the opposite, pointy ears become a sign of the devil or some such. All my descendants are hunted down and killed. No more pointy eared babies, problem solved. This is how the environment can select for certain traits, and eliminate others. The main factor is change in the environment.
And if you need a practical example, think about that one lucky lady a LONG time ago that had slightly larger breasts than average. Now, the average breast size in the world is growing steadily. Evolution at work, people.

joeyhndc
Male, 18-29, Canada
 335 Posts
Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:57:06 AM
And if anyone is still reading this, here's a practical look at evolution.
Say I had a small mutation that gave me pointy ears (a little bumb of cartiledge or something). It makes me look a little odd but doesnt really hamper my ability to learn, eat, whatever.
Now, say I meet this nice girl and start churning out little pointy-eared children. They have the same flaw as me, but no distinct advantage or disadvantage. This goes on for several generations.
Then suddenly, pointy ears become HOT. All my great great great grandchildren are treated like gods, where before they had exactly the same survival chance as anyone else. They churn out more babies than non-pointy eared people, because they are 'selected' more often for their pointy ears.
Slowly, a greater percentage of the population would develop pointy ears, until it became normal for humans to have pointy ears. At that point, peple with pointier ears would get selected as hot.

joeyhndc
Male, 18-29, Canada
 335 Posts
Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:50:21 AM
Here's something that defeats the 2nd law of thermodynamics argument: babies. Think about it, they only add to their own complexity (a big hunk of closely packed organic matter sitting in loosely arranged air molecules) by pumping food into themselves and making new cells.
The entropy tradeoff? Body heat escaped to the atmosphere, where some of it eventually gets lost to space and is thus unuseable because it is spread thin, and the glucose that they injested has now become CO2, a much simpler molecule.
This baby eventually becomes a much more complex adult, and what we did was add chemical energy the whole time. By the idea presented, adding energy to the baby would just break it down into its constituent molecules. This is obviously not the case.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12132 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:57:21 PM
Mwa ha haaa. Like it Overman. By the way, I've read most of Dawkins' books (more entertaining than the Bible for sure). You'll like this, if you didn't pick it up from my previous post...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXet...


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:20:37 PM
"My family thinks I'm crazy..."

You may very well be if you purport to be aware of the thoughts of your family. Sorry, but I felt this thread could do with a little humor.


shiggin
Female, 13-17, Eastern US
 1467 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 6:48:55 PM
Kaoriel
Female, 13-17, Eastern US
499 Posts Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:11:27 AM
"# Extrinsic Ear Muscles
* These three muscles most likely made it possible for prehominids to move their ears independently of their heads (again, like a cat or dog). We still have these muscles which is why most people can learn how to wiggle their ears."

Ooh, I can do that! My family thinks I'm crazy, but I can move my ears - in fact if I hear a loud noise behind me, my ears shift backwards so I can hear behind me, better. I don't think it's too big of a movement, though.

Sick! I want that


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 6:23:18 PM
Indeed I have read Dawkins' latest. I so admire his fluency of thought and the concise articulation with which he makes his arguments. I'm in the process of reading another of his books, The Blind Watchmaker. Have you yet discovered his website, RichardDawkins.net? The site touts to be 'A Clear-thinking Oasis' and I think you'll very much enjoy it if you have not already had the pleasure.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12132 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:41:11 PM
You tell 'em Overmann. Completely agree. Have you read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? He asks the same very valid question- If science cannot yet explain something, why is the answer "God" by default?

You might find the following interesting, which basically spells out the point you are making

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_...


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:52:20 PM
horn4231, you are describing my exact sentiments on religion and belief in a deity. You say that:

"We really need to admit that we (and science) cannot answer everything."

but then you contradict that statement by saying:

"There are many things that I explain by saying 'God did it.'"

You seem uncomfortable with your ignorance such that you must label it differently or ascribe the blame to something else other than yourself. I freely admit I am ignorant of x number of things that science cannot provide answers for, but that doesn't mean we cannot treat unknowable questions (is there a God? What are our origins?) scientifically in the meantime, namely that we should reject those hypotheses with insufficient evidence, regardless whether our desire to know such things can reconcile that rejection.

You're right in that we should admit we know not everything, but that doesn't mean we should ascribe our own ignorance to some other power beyond ourselves.


R_U_Kidding
Male, 18-29, Canada
 4278 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:16:23 AM
I'm happy to admit that science can't answer everything (yet), but that doesn't mean God should get credit for what can't be answered (yet). Isn't it good enough to just say "I don't know why this is," instead of saying "God made it this way."??
(bad puncuation, I know, but it was never my strongest point)

horn4231
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 87 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 2:37:18 AM
davymid: i wish there were more people as humble as you in the world. people with humility are few and far between. i have much respect for you.

DbtG: You are exactly right. There are many things that I explain by saying "God did it." I do this because we don't know everything. You probably consider this a weakness in the argument for Christianity, but it really isn't. We really need to admit that we (and science) cannot answer everything. If you wish to discuss this any further please email me at horn4231@hsutx.edu instead of posting on here, because I really don't check this website too often.


DBtG
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 334 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2007 1:12:36 AM
NeuralRu, I think some people get overwhelmed by the information. Like you said, it's incredibly complex.

I think many Christians believe in God because it's an easy explanation for incomprehensible things. Confused about something that happened? God did it. Wonder where something came from? God made it. etc...

People started believing in gods because they couldn't explain or understand the changes in weather. And by becoming a Christian (or Jew or Muslim) in modern society, you don't have to hurt your head trying to wrap it around rational thought. You can just say "God did it", cite the Bible and dismiss everybody else's opinion.


NeurolRu
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 74 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 11:01:42 PM
horn4231: How is it that being educated makes you less effective in making a point? Do you think people who are ignorant of science would be better at describing evolution? That makes absolutely no sense. The more you understand a concept, the better you are at assessing its validity. Don't insult me, I'm a professional in the field of biology and chemistry, and I believe I've argued my side beautifully.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12132 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 10:21:56 PM
Horn4231

I have deleted the embarassing post. I know most Christians are good people, and I don't want to tar all christians with the same brush. I am only arguing here against people who take the Bible literally.

I believe there is a place for religion in society, if taken in context. I just get pisseed off when people try to pass of pseudoscience like answersingenesis.org in a serious debate.

I apologise if I offended your faith, that was not my intention. I only ask that you respect my beliefs in return, which I'm sure you will do.


horn4231
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 87 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 10:12:49 PM
davymid:
I call myself a Christian, and I am embarrassed at things like the article you posted. Please don't judge the whole religion by the actions of a few. However, I am not any better than the people who do those things, because we are all sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. All sins are the same in His eyes.

horn4231
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 87 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 10:09:19 PM
this is the most off-the-wall creation vs evolution argument ive ever seen. after reading this, i have come to the realization that: the more years you have studied evolution/biochemical thermodynamics, etc, the less able you are to make an actual point. yet, you gain the ability and right to call others ignorant for believing things you don't.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12132 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 10:00:20 PM
Ninjachibi,

Please stop spouting your brand of bulllpoo. I've got a PhD in geology. What have you got? A favourite tag on Answersingenesis.org and high school diploma. Get educated before you decide to "preach"


Overmann
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 3156 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 9:10:52 PM
NinjaChibi, I admit I am having some difficulty following your line of reasoning. The way you phrased your post it sounded as if the only form of energy compatible with life is solar energy. Surely this is not what you are trying to insinuate?

NeurolRu
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 74 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 6:13:22 PM
NinjaChibi:
No humans are not photosynthetic, obviously. Where the hell do you think we get our energy? It's called FOOD. Everything we eat gets broken down into glucose which is broken down in glycolysis to start oxidative phoshporylation to generate adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the energy currency of the cell. Sustenance is what provides the energy for cells to develop and replicated, and mutations occur during the replication process. NONE of this violates the laws of thermodynamics. I have been studying biochemical thermodynamics for several years, and there has never been a biochemical reaction observed that doesn't follow those laws... and mutation of genetic code is one of them.

NeurolRu
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 74 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 6:08:15 PM
Thanks Snoogans, I'm glad you gained some knowledge from my posts.

Hbah427: First of all, it is thought that the original "cosmic soup" of the big bang was comprised of random neutrons and protons that fused to form deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen)and helium. Afterwhich, the helium and hydrogen could transmute into the other elements, and heavier elements are thought to have been synthesized in stars. If you don't know what transmutation of elements is, look it up.
This is all theoretical of course, but there is evidence... but a point I'd like to make is this: when people don't understand something, why do they feel compelled to ASSUME a supreme being is involved? Why are human beings so afraid to accept that they just don't know?


NinjaChibi
Male, 18-29, Europe
 91 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2007 5:55:04 PM
Overmann: I was merely pointing out the fact that the theory of evolution does not correspond with the laws of thermodynamics. I was asking how evolution gets around such a thing. But the fact is that I have educated myself. The laws of entropy induces this statement:
The open systems argument does not help evolution. Raw energy cannot generate the specified complex information in living things. Undirected energy just speeds up destruction. Just standing out in the sun won’t make you more complex—the human body lacks the mechanisms to harness raw solar energy. If you stood in the sun too long, you would get skin cancer, because the sun’s undirected energy will cause mutations. (Mutations are copying errors in the genes that nearly always lose information). Similarly, undirected energy flow through an alleged primordial soup will break down the complex molecules of life faster than they are formed.

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