Monday, September 17, 2012 6:20:40 PM
5Cats: "As a result, LOWER tax rates INCREASED revenue! Rich people now pay A HIGHER PERCENTAGE than they used to!"
Higher than WHEN? Other than a brief period from the Reagan-Bush Sr. years (1988-1992) the top marginal rate hasn't been lower since 1931! Currently it`s around half the historical average.
Clinton`s increased tax rates occur in 1993, and the debt levels off within two years. In 2001 the rapidly shrinking debt reverses due to starting two new wars, drastically increasing government spending. Since then the top tax rate has dropped from 39.6% to 35% and the deficit has more than DOUBLED.
Oh, and no, we haven`t had higher revenue PER CAPITA. Ignoring the "per capita" part and inflation is dishonest statistics.
But seriously, how dumb is it to reduce your income and increase your spending AT THE SAME TIME?!? Obama couldn`t even end the tax cuts without the Republicans holding congress hostage.
Monday, September 17, 2012 5:39:05 PM
5Cats: "HOW can I take it "out of context" when I LINKED THE WHOLE GODDAMN SPEACH!"
Because when you quoted part of it, you quoted a pronoun, but not the nouns it referred to, which was in the previous sentence!
It's like if the quote was, "Steve is an idiot. Bob knows he`s an idiot." and you only quoted, "Bob knows he`s an idiot," without ever referring to Steve, so that the quote makes it look like Bob`s talking about himself!
At the very least you should have written, "If you`ve got a business -- you didn`t build that (the roads and bridges)." But no, you left out that important context, which is the DEFINITION of taking something out of context!
And yeah, I must be "insane" for thinking that tax cuts (i.e. decreased revenue) would lead to a deficit. Clearly the two are unrelated. (eyeroll)
Sunday, September 16, 2012 7:36:29 AM
@HiEv: HOW can I take it "out of context" when I LINKED THE WHOLE GODDAMN SPEACH! OF COURSE he's talking about infrastructure and stuff, BUT he`s using it as a call to RAISE TAXES on ALL businesses! Disgusting!
Oh dear Lord: When the "tax rates" were 90%? There were SO MANY LOOPHOLES you could drive an armoured car through them! When rates were lowered, many loopholes were closed! As a result, LOWER tax rates INCREASED revenue! Rich people now pay A HIGHER PERCENTAGE than they used to! And a higher PROPORTION as well!
To blame Obama`s 50% INCREASE IN DEFICIT on "tax cuts" is INSANE. Also: Obama continued those cuts, HE SIGNED THEM TOO!
Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:25:07 AM
For reference, during and post-WWII, the top marginal individual tax rates were around 90%. In 1964 Kennedy reduced that to 70%. Reagan lowered it to 50% in 1982, and then down to 28% in 1988. He also slashed programs that maintained the US infrastructure. So in a matter of 24 years, the top income tax dropped to under 1/3rd of what it started at.
Under Clinton we managed to get it up to 39.6%, finally reversing the growth of the US debt, but then Bush Jr. knocked it down to 35% and managed to nearly double the US debt.
Low taxes sounds nice, but when it's so low that it leads to an underfunded, debt-ridden, nonfunctional government, then taxes need to be raised.
And as I pointed out above, we`re still at a small fraction of where the income tax levels have been in the past, and it`s illogical to think we can keep lowering them forever. We need a reasonable level, and that level fluctuates.
Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:08:15 AM
@5Cats: What are you, Captain F'ing Obvious here? OF COURSE that wasn`t all that he said, but that particular line is the bit that people keep taking out of context. The same context that you removed when you quoted it yourself!!!
The idea that we live in a society and we get along with help from each other is nothing new. Mitt Romney has said the same thing.
As for taxes, hell yeah people need to pay higher taxes! Republicans have been cutting taxes for decades, and have been pushing the US into ruin and debt. Bridges are crumbling, programs that are the building blocks of US strength such as education and research are underfunded, the US National Debt is in the TRILLIONS (~$16 trillion).
The Republican plan makes things worse by cutting taxes on those who can most easily afford it, while INCREASING taxes on the middle class. That only serves to make the rich richer and the non-rich poorer.