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Smoking Bans: Banning Freedom

Are smoking bans wrong? When you boil the facts down, yes.

submitted by: ozzymandiaas
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Smoking Bans: Banning Freedom. Are smoking bans wrong? When you boil the facts down, yes.
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Hits: 9071 | Favorites: 2 | Emailed: 0 | Rating: 2.4 | Category: News & Politics | Date: 02/28/2012
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Male, 40-49, Europe
 12381 Posts
Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:11:21 PM
I've just wondered if I did something really dumb...and I did.

I read kilometres as miles. Duh!

So I was totally wrong about the claimed range of the 85KWh Tesla S. 480 miles would be a highly implausible claim. 480 kilometres is a reasonable claim.

Male, 40-49, Europe
 12381 Posts
Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:07:35 PM
So...you're left with massively upgrading the amount of power the lines can carry (and you`d still be limited by how much you can actually attach to the car) or battery swapping.

Battery swapping could work, if batteries with enough capacity get small enough and light enough to be handled in a practical manner. Drive in, swap discharged battery for charged one, drive out. The battery charges in the station (which can have really heavy duty power lines laid in) ready for someone else later. The functionality is almost identical to refueling an ICE car, so it should be easily accepted if it`s done right. Charging would be a possibly useful extra for when you`re not using the car.

It`s potentially practical...but not right now.

Male, 40-49, Europe
 12381 Posts
Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:02:00 PM
The really serious downer is that there isn't all that much scope for improvement in electric motors as they are already very efficient. So we`re not going to see massive improvements in miles per KWh, even if you ignore the actual m/KWh and add in the extra electricity generated by regenerative braking.

So major improvements in EVs depend on getting far more KWh in the car, i.e. far better batteries. That might happen (there are several very promising possibilities in development), but it won`t address the charging time.

A 200KWh battery pack half the size and weight of a current 50KWh one might exist in 5 years time, but it will take 4 times as long to charge using the same power. At Canadian mains, it would take about 120 hours.

The battery might be able to charge much faster (some of the possible future batteries will take astonishing charging rates), but you can`t get around the fact that charging x KWh requires supplying >x KWh.

Male, 40-49, Europe
 12381 Posts
Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:51:13 PM
Re-charging the 85kW battery pack fully on a regular socket (not their dual or 10-socket "invention") can take as long as 10 hours.


Canadian mains is 120V 15A for a "regular socket", right?

That's 1.8KW.

Charging 85KWh at 1.8KW takes 47.22 hours even if you have 100% charging efficiency (which is impossible). So it would take ~50 hours, maybe a bit longer.

[quote]I`m just saying it`s not THAT bad.[/quote]

No, you aren`t just saying that. You`re hugely exaggerating how good current EVs are, in a way that is extremely easily disproved. So I still say that you`re doing more harm than good when it comes to promoting the use of EVs:

[quote]Claims like this do more harm than good when it comes to promoting EVs. Anyone who learns anything about the subject knows that such claims are ludicrous rubbish and that taints the whole idea of EVs by association. [/quote]

Male, 40-49, Europe
 12381 Posts
Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:43:12 PM
@Angilion: theoretically, you could leave the Karma in the sun for days and drive indefinitely without ever having to plug it in. It's not a good idea, it provides very little energy, and the Karma includes a combustion engine: it`s a hybrid.

Being able to drive a few miles every few days if it`s sunny a lot of the time is not driving indefinitely.

[quote]The 85kW battery pack will take you a whooping 480 km on ideal conditions, and ~200 under heavy, heavy usage.[/quote]

No, it doesn`t. You`re not going to get 5.65 miles per KWh (NOT kW) unless you`re going downhill most of the time and heavy, heavy usage (e.g. on a track) could drop the range to 100Km. More if you`re drag racing it.

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