Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:32:47 AM
I think some theists also get the misconception that an atheist is claiming no god exists when really the atheist is denying the definition of god that that particular theist is arguing for, but since the theist has the belief 'their god is the only possible god` they conclude the atheist is therefore making the claim no god exists.
Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:14:16 AM
@CrakrJak: I don't see how he was trying to censor anybody. He simply stated that by shutting down a discussion with "you just have to have faith" that person is being unreasonable.
It`s like when you argue with your girlfriend or wife. You can throw the logic of why you`re right and why they`re wrong right in their face, and they`ll completely ignore it or change the subject.
"You just have to have faith." is to theists; as "Whatever." is to females.
I think it`s funny when atheists take the gnostic stance on god. It`s funny because they`re taking a stance of faith.
Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:04:19 AM
almightybob1: I knew it was church doctrine but I had never read it before so thanks for the post. As so many things religious it can be interpreted in more than one way. In my experience with the clergy they all had different answers but were often vague so that they couldn't be pinned down. I think they must teach that in seminary school. As an example in Vatican II that you posted where it says
"For it is through Christ`s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained."
The key word being `fullness`, I think a lot of priests would focus on that word to show it could be available to others but not in "full". I am sure the Vatican choose that word for its vagueness as well. I don`t know any of my Catholic friends who still practice to believe it.
Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:02:38 AM
bob: Yes, I know the Catholic church thinks very highly of itself as the 'universal help towards salvation`, but they fall short of actually saying they are the sole means of salvation.
That was some clever diplomatic wording on their part, even for 1965, when it occurred. It`s not unlike an auto repair shop saying, "We`re the best in town".