Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:31:29 AM
If the government stopped giving benefits for marriage, or stopped recognizing marriage completely, I guarantee people would still get married within their religion.
And others would still get married without a religion.
That happened before governments gave public money to people who were married, even before there really was such a thing as a government.
The idea that Christians needed to have the Christian church controlling their weddings was a pure power grab by the church. It's the same reason (and the same timeframe) for it suppressing translations of the Bible into languages that most people could understand - the church wanted the people to be forced to go through the church, giving it money and power. Christians have no real theological need for church involvement - they have faith that their god will know when they make their vows (i.e. get married), regardless of circumstances.
Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:15:12 AM
That part of my argument was very specifically in response to people talking about what the word 'marriage` means.
I`ll say it again, since it appears that it isn`t getting through:
The vow is the marriage. Anything and everything else added onto it is not the marriage. The marriage is the vow. That is what a marriage is. It is not an item of clothing. It is not a party. It is not a form from the government. It is not money given by the government from public money. It is not a blessing by a cleric. It is the vows. It doesn`t matter what words are in the vows - it is the act of vowing that is a marriage. That`s why the act of becoming married is called `wedding` in English - `wedding` means `to vow`.
Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:11:08 AM
Angilion, your argument, as far as I can tell, is that because the "lawful" marriage is not the same as the religious ceremony, that the lawful marriage is the only part that is important.
I'll say it again.
A marriage is a vow of commitment.
That is what a marriage is. It is not anything else.
Government recognition of the marriage is not the marriage.
State benefits given to promote marriage are not the marriage.
Religious blessing of the marriage is not the marriage.
By law, by definition, by etymology and by custom, THE VOW IS THE MARRIAGE. In every way, THE VOW IS THE MARRIAGE.
I`ve said that before, several times. Are you now clear on what my argument is?
Various things added to a marriage are important to various people, but they are not the marriage.