58 Dead, 515 Injured In Las Vegas After Deadliest Shooting In Modern US History

Submitted by: rumham 2 months ago in News & Politics

A couple of photos may be graphic.

The man suspected of shooting and killing at least 50 people Sunday evening at a concert in Las Vegas has been identified as Stephen Paddock (second photo above), a 64-year-old Nevada resident. According to reports, Paddock lived in a retirement community in nearby Mesquite. Vegas police confirmed they located his companion, named as Marilou Danley, who also shares his residence. Officials confirmed the gunman was dead. Paddock allegedly opened fire from a window on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel and casino, across from where the outdoor Route 91 Harvest Music Festival was taking place. At least 50 are dead and another 100 are reported injured.

In the video below, you can see how the hotel Paddock was shooting from is located directly in front of the audience that was facing the stage of the concert. The crowd obviously don't know where the bullets are coming from so they're basically standing targets for Paddock.



[Note: Several readers sent in this article last night, IAB went with the first one in. Thanks for all submissions.]
There are 274 comments:
585
fancylad I can't submit articles off of my iPad, but thought you might want to make a post on this.

A bill linked to Stephen paddock and his room dated 27th September shows considerable evidence that he was sharing the room with someone...

It states 2 guests in the room and food and drinks for 2 people. Was it actually him or has he been used as a patsy. 
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Male 4,191
Apparently, the shooter was a millionaire.

I wonder if he is the first official mass shooting rich guy.
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Male 271
Sad as this is, I'm watching and listening to all the commentary that always accompanies this sort of event in the USA. A proponent of gun rights (?) in the US was interviewed on the BBC claiming that Australian and British governments 'confiscated' guns following similar events in those countries. Actually, the governments concerned responded to public anger hence the gun bans there. We want to be safe.

In Europe it's SNAFU, in the States it's FUBAR.

Ain't nothing going to change.
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540
mikesex In Australia, compensation was paid for guns, so 'confiscation' is the wrong word anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#Australia
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Male 8,198
I think we are overlooking the elephant in the room here.  Not all men are violent but All mass killers are men.  I think a major problem is unfortunately my sex....
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Male 52
I can't speak for other countries, but after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987, the UK government passed the the Firearms (amendment) Act 1988, which BANS the ownership of semi-automatic rifles and restricts the use of shotguns with a capacity of more than three cartridges (in magazine plus the breech).

After the Dunblane shootings of 1996, the goverment passed the Firearms (amendment) Act 1997 which BANS all handguns from private ownership.

People in the UK can still own shotguns for hunting, but the guns have to be fully licenced, and if stored at home, must be kept in a locked gun case, and the ammunition has to be kept in a totally separate locked cabinet.

Guess what, we don't have mass shootings.

In the US, statistically you guys have a mass shooting every single day of the week, with something like 11,500 people killed by guns this year already.

You guys see it as just 'one of those things', blasé in the same way as people become blasé about road deaths. But year on year there are safety improvements in vehicles and pedestrian safety. We are moving into an age of driverless vehicles which will slash road deaths. People are CONSTANTLY looking to improve road safety.

What the FUCK are America doing to improve 'gun safety'? Literally nothing, because too many people love the 'freedom' to own a gun. Its perverse, the obsessions with 'freedom'.

I don't call living in fear of being shot every day or your life, worrying about sending your kids to school in case they get massacred, I don't that freedom, I would call it quite the opposite.

This subject comes up quite a lot on pan-atlantic forums and descends into choas each time, because literally, we Europeans cannot even begin to understand why you are all so precious about keeping a bloody gun, when literally tens of thousands of men woman and children are dying each year as a direct result. it's sheer lunacy, and the ferocity with which you defend the 'right to bear arms' cannot help but make us look at you in pity in many ways. Sorry, but it's true.
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Male 5,419
ImaginaryN Upvoted. I agree with you. In terms of guns, it's crazy over here--a societal sickness. The sickness is attended by a huge amount of denial, paranoia, and anger on the part of the gun zealots.
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Male 3,347
ImaginaryN 
No, you have shitloads of stabbings instead - along with rape gangs roaming around - which your government does not want to address because they are afraid of looking racist.
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Male 41,571
captkangaroo Don't forget Muslim 'youths' throwing acid in the faces of perfect strangers...
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540
captkangaroo murder rates:

UK: 0.92
Australia: 0.98
Canada: 1.68
New Zealand: 0.91
France: 1.62
Germany: 0.85
Israel: 1.36

USA: 4.88
Rwanda: 4.55
Somalia: 5.56

Stabbings don't bring the UK's murder rate to anywhere near the US's. It's a pissweak excuse for not addressing the problem in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
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Male 41,571
barry9a Mexico 16.1 Cherry picking is no way to earn a living...
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Male 10,361
5cats He gave you 7 countries. I could give you 50. You gave ONE. Which one is "cherry picking"? 

Mexico is in the middle of a war.

You're OK with comparing the U.S. to Mexico? So the bar we should set for ourselves for success is Mexico's infant mortality rate, average household income, GDP, poverty rate? THAT IS THE BAR?
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Male 10,361
captkangaroo Ya. Good point. Remember a little while ago when that guy stabbed and killed 59 people?
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Male 3,347
@?11 - 3000 dead, no shots fired.
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Male 3,347
holygod 

I'm sorry you think it's a numbers game.

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Male 5,419
captkangaroo You're trying to trivialize an important point--I guess? I'm not even sure what your remark means.

I think the numbers of people killed in mass homicides are important. You don't?
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Male 3,347
squrlz4ever 
For purely informational value, yes, for emotional impact, no. One killed is as horrifying as 100.
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Male 5,419
captkangaroo Not for the families of the 99 people who weren't murdered. Sorry, but your comment makes no sense.
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Male 3,347
squrlz4ever 
Look, I am not saying that one death is a tragedy, and 1 million deaths a statistic. What I am saying is 59 needless deaths are not worse than 1 needless death. It's just 59 single deaths. To group them, to reduce them to that empty number, THAT minimizes them.
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Male 4,383
captkangaroo And "glassing", that's civilized. 
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Male 3,347
trimble 
I don't know what 'glassing' is.
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Male 5,419
captkangaroo It's when a person uses a bottle or glass to stab someone, usually in the face or neck and usually in a bar.
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Male 3,347
squrlz4ever 
Thanks.
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Male 5,419
captkangaroo Happy to help. I was unfamiliar with the term myself and had to look it up.
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Male 15,402
We English lived under the constant threat of terrorism for years. My dad wouldn't let us visit Alton Towers and Blackpool for the majority of our childhood because they were obvious terrorist targets. The IRA threat has subsided, but now we have ISIL and their ilk.

America is an obvious target. You don't need to agree with me or my politics, but I implore you to think strategically and tactically. Don't go to venues that would make fat juicy targets. Look around with the mindset of a bad guy. Be aware of obvious threats and be ready to act if threats present themselves.

My pet rats have great instincts. They can be in a safe environment under my watch and they'll still hug the wall and dash from cover to cover. We aren't going to get nommed by anthe owl, but my point is danger is all around. Report anything suspicious.

One more thing: avoid fantasy scenarios like "I bought a flock and rifle and a 300 round drum mag and I'll save the day and be a hero." Unless you live in a remote homestead with no neighbors or emergency services, you're better off running for cover.

TL;DR Stay safe everyone.
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Male 10,361
Officials are now saying that he was using bump stocks. Does anyone think those need to be legal? WTF?
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Male 4,383
holygod I have one for my .22 Mossberg Plinkster (a "scary looking" .22 rifle) that is loads of fun at my range. I heard the shots for the first time last night and they sounded like true auto fire to me, not a bump stock. I don't know how well one would work from a platform aiming down either. Who knows? They may never give us the true story anyway. Everyone has their own agenda.
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Male 10,361
trimble I think since he was shooting in a small confined space there could have been an echo issue that might have made the fire rate sound even faster then it was maybe?
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Male 10,361
trimble I'm sure its a blast (no pun intended). Not going to lie, I shot a full auto machine gun in Vegas once. It was crazy fun. However, if not having a bump stock would have kept one more person alive that night I don't think my fun, or your fun, or anyone else's is worth it. 
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Male 3,822
did you watch Hannity tonight. thats all he did was politicize it while saying how it was horrible of people to politicize it.  i think people need to shut the fuck up for a change. our opinions are pointless and stupid. god bless the internet for making us all retarded
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Male 357
Please Please Please start showing the bodies on the news. Every one of them. Show the dead people, get the crime scene photos of Sandy Hook and put them on the news and anywhere else. It is to easy for people to quickly turn these events into philosophical and constitutional issues instead of dead people issues. Pictures and video of dead people will make it a lot harder to sweep away because everyone knows that it is already happening. There can be no rights without responsibility.
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Male 598
taxidriver I was thinking just a continuous ticker tape any time they cover this.  Victim's names, and all their relations.
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Male 4,191
taxidriver I have long thought this was the answer.  We didn't get out of the Vietnam war till they started showing the caskets of our dead soldiers coming home, night after night on the news.
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Male 3,801
taxidriver Ouch...The Truth
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Male 603
The only difference between anyone and their own worst self, is a few beers and a few weeks of self-loathing. Thinking that anyone will always be in their right mind, it's a naivete that leaves me disgusted. Accept that people will go fucking mental, and that in a world where 500 people can be shot by one, in one single event, there's gonna shit tons of dead people. This is the fault of the gun lobby, no if ands or buts. No one except soldiers and cops need an automatic weapon, they're just too fucking powerful. Not that people haven't been pointing this shit out, but if giving up my gun would have stopped this from ever having happened, I'd do it in an instant. A clean consciousness is never having owned something designed specifically to kill my fellow humans. I like people, I don't want to kill or hurt them. That's why I don't buy guns.
Set an example, get rid of your gun. There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner when it comes to buying high powered automatic weapons, if you do, you're out of your goddamned mind, and you're truly part of a reason that these things happen.
To quote his brother, "where the hell did he get automatic weapons? He has no military background, or anything like that."
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Male 10,361
You know how we hear from politicians that this is not a "gun problem" it is a "mental health problem"?

Congress recently passed a funding bill for next year that would cut $306 million from the government's Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration.
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Female 425
Can everyone just agree this is horrible beyond words without saying it was because they liked this political person or did not. Stop trying so sly with the drama and agree this is a horrendous tragedy. Period.
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Male 5,186
savagenation oh yeah,lets just say what is  obvious and dont add any other speculation so all the coscience will be clean...untill the next tragedy.

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Male 6,627
it's a terrible tragedy when people take life.

Sadly, it's not going to get any better any time soon, or in the foreseeable future.

#NationInFreeFall
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Male 45
It’s unacceptable that Americans are allowed to own such high power weapons. Makes no sense.  
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Male 41,571
canadianeh We have no idea if his weapons were legal or not. Please label your speculation as such, eh?

If they were illegal? How would MORE laws make them any 'more illegal'?
He was (apparently) very rich and buying black market items has never in all history been prevented. Look at heroin and cocaine? ALL of it is imported into the USA, thousands of tons of it. Would making drugs 'more illegal' stop that flow? Nope.
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Male 41,571
FancyLad? This might be an interesting thing to add to any follow-ups on the Vegas shootings?
http://www.ktvn.com/story/36203418/president-trump-supporters-and-protesters-gather-in-reno

Some people are claiming the guy in this video at 55-57 seconds looks a little like the shooter... he's at an anti-Trump rally wearing a pink "pussy hat" and carrying a sign. That doesn't look like his GF beside him tho...

Again: unfounded and completely speculation! But geez, there's some resemblance and it is in that immediate area...

Some info about his criminal dad:
http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/

A smattering of info about the shooter:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4940918/Details-Las-Vegas-shooting-suspect-Stephen-Paddock.html

He lived in a nice house and sometimes spent $20,000 to $30,000 a day gambling...
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Male 4,191
http://www.slidefire.com/videos

Slide fire stocks?  Good thing?  Is this protected by the second amendment?
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Male 15,402
Maybe he wasn't a fan of C&W?

I'm waiting for Alex Jones to call it another hoax.
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Male 10,361
Draculya Commenters on his site are. It is inevitable that he will to.
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Male 41,571
Draculya Apparently his family says he liked Country music.
And apparently the nut-jobs are already dragging the lunatic conspiracy theories out too :-/
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Male 10,361
5cats Who the fuck is down voting this? Fuck off with that shit. Down vote the content of the comment, not the person.
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Male 41,571
holygod As I've said 100 times before: there is a group of IAB Liberals who downvote my comments or posts every single time. (and use their sock-puppets too I guess) Regardless of quality or content, they must smear their HATE across IAB each and every day.
THAT is what I deal with here: blind incoherent hate. I thank you for pointing it out and I do hope someday these hate-spammers will go away...
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Male 10,361
5cats 

1. I've told you repeatedly it isn't me.

2. There are those that do it to me as well. I remember at one point on the "leaderboard" I was at like 300 something. Then some pathetic  people / person went through ALL my comments, even those that were months old and downvoted them. How fucking sad must their life be? 

3. Don't worry about it. It's a mild annoyance by people too chicken shit to actual stand up to your comments. Take it as a compliment.
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Male 41,571
holygod I didn't mean to imply you were one, I don't think so. Pretty sure the ones who used to brag about doing it are still at it, along with some hate-spammers.

Wow, It wasn't me! Lolz! I wouldn't even notice since there's already a sea of negatives. 

Yup, if this is the worst thing they can do? If this is what they think counts for something? It's win-win for me. Just need to explain the low scores now and then...

>And the front page shows all the +/- for comments as +/- for the post, that is just so broken. :-<
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Male 41,571
Some actual thinking on the gun control subject: 
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/politicize-shootings-make-harder-find-solutions/#.WdKMEh94RSw.twitter

Not that long.

An even shorter look at how the 'first reports' of this shooting are unusual:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/452117/based-early-reports-las-vegas-shooting-very-very-strange

Keeping in mind that these 'early reports' are often wrong or incomplete, ok?
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Male 1,381
As a Canadian, all I can say after an event as tragic as this one, is that I cannot possibly conceive wanting to trade in our gun control for more "gun freedom". Canadian hunters can still buy a variety of weapons well suited to practice their pastime of bagging game. Sport shooters can still get a whole bunch of weapons to have fun with. If I had to trade gun freedom for the gun control we have I'd definitely buy a gun though...to shoot myself
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Male 1,561
doiknowyou I'm not sure what your point is.  If it is that semi auto weapons or converted to full auto weapons is the cause then  I disagree. 

Any access to any guns at all (except maybe black powder muskets) will cause similar carnage.

Here is a revolver doing some real damage.
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/04/jerry-miculek-sets-16-round-revolver-speed-reload-record-video/
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Male 1,381
woodyville06 I guess my point was live by the gun, die by the gun.
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Male 41,571
A CNN talking head actually came right out and said the victims are 'likely Trump supporters'.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/cnn-reporter-country-music-fans-are-likely-trump-supporters-video/?utm_source=site-share

I think we can agree this is unforgivable from a 'professional news network' right?

A top CBS person said the victims don't deserve any sympathy because they were likely Trump supporters:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html

She was fired immediately, good.

I was joking before about the MSM blaming the victims for being 'likely' Trump supporters, then I read stuff like this...
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Male 5,308
5cats And your "top CBS person" in your other link was a top CBS lawyer. Some lawyers are horrible people. This one said something horrific about the victims of a tragedy and was immediately fired for it. This looks bad on the woman that said these horrible things not CBS. They did everything right.
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Male 41,571
markust123 Yes, 'a top person' in the organization known as CBS. Not THE top person, not a top TV Host, just someone near the top who (used to) work there, ok? A vice-president of her department iirc.

And yes, they did the right thing, hence I said "good" ok?
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Male 5,308
5cats, "A CNN talking head actually came right out and said the victims are 'likely Trump supporters'."

The guy said that in a positive way. Your article is a prime example of how partisan media spins things the opposite of what was actually said. The Daily Caller wrote this,
"Zeleny said he found the speech to be “pitch perfect” but then asked people to “keep in mind” that many country music fans are Trump supporters."

The Daily Caller made it seem like Zeleny used the word but to pretend he was contradicting what the President said, when Zeleny really used an inclusive and to keep what he was saying in line with the "pitch-perfect tone" of the president's speech. What Zeleny was saying was just a long winded, poorly worded, complimentary run-on sentence:

"But the president is clearly, as John said, striking a pitch-perfect tone there, and something else I think to keep in mind–a lot of these country music supporters were likely Trump supporters, and this is something, that of course, is hitting the tapestry of all Americans and there are going to be victims from across the country here, so this is something that is a national tragedy as the president said, and the flags he also ordered at half staff today in memory and thought of all the victims in Las Vegas."
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Male 10,361
5cats I am not condoning what she said and she made some assumptions, but she wasn't just saying they deserved it because they are republicans. She was kind of saying you reap what you sow.

Country music fans generally are republicans
Republicans generally vote in republicans
Republicans generally support limiting any sort of gun regulation
The lack of gun regulation is teh reason we have mass shootings.

Again I DO NOT CONDONE what she said. Just pointing out it wasn't just republican hate.

Also, she was a lawyer. She had nothing to do with news, media, content, etc.
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Female 425
holygod -Your not condoning what she said your just not disagreeing with her. Come on. Sickening thoughts to say the Least. NO One deserved that regardless who they side with politically
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Male 10,361
savagenation I don't condone it or agree with it. Let me give you an example.

If a group of train executives die in an airplane crash it is tragic. If a group of airline executives, who cut regulations, safety measures, and maintenance crews die in a plane crash it is tragic, but it is sorta karma. No?
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Male 41,571
holygod If a "lack of gun control" is why you have mass shootings? Why do they still happen in nations with LOTS of strict gun controls?
No logic in your argument at all...

And making excuses for her sure sounds like you condone it, just like when the Congressman got shot and every liberal ran around saying he deserved it too... blame the victim is not nice at all.
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Male 15,402
5cats Hong Kong has a gun death rate of 0.0 per 100,000 per year, including police shootings, illegally imported firearms and suicides. OTOH, I can't hunt deer with an automatic rifle so I'll admit there are some trade offs.
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Male 41,571
Draculya Because China is open! Information is freely distributed! And if you think the government 'cooks the books' you will be arrested!
You honestly think no one in Hong Kong gets killed or suicides by gun? You cannot BE that stupid... you must make an effort!
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Male 10,361
5cats What nations? Name a nation that has had anywhere near as many mass shootings as us and has strict gun laws. NOT 3rd world nations in central america or africa related to wars.
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Male 41,571
holygod Oh la-de-da! Now you just cherry pick (by exclusion) all the ones that are relevant?
Mexico: very strict gun laws, right on the US border, 110 million people, not '3rd world' or Africa OR Central America! Murder rate:
USA: 4.88
Mexico 16.35
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Mass shootings happen all over the world, in proportion to population there's several European nations with higher per capita death rates from them than the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Yes America has a high number and yes it would be better if it were lower. But taking the lawful guns away from lawful citizens while leaving the criminals fully armed is NOT a rational solution, ok?
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Male 52
5cats I can't speak for other countries, but after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987, the UK government passed the the Firearms (amendment) Act 1988, which BANS the ownership of semi-automatic rifles and restricts the use of shotguns with a capacity of more than three cartridges (in magazine plus the breech).

After the Dunblane shootings of 1996, the goverment passed the Firearms (amendment) Act 1997 which BANS all handguns from private ownership.

People in the UK can still own shotguns for hunting, but the guns have to be fully licenced, and if stored at home, must be kept in a locked gun case, and the ammunition has to be kept in a totally separate locked cabinet.

Guess what, we don't have mass shootings.

In the US, statistically you guys have a mass shooting every single day of the week, with something like 11,500 people killed by guns this year already.

You guys see it as just 'one of those things', blasé in the same way as people become blasé about road deaths. But year on year there are safety improvements in vehicles and pedestrian safety. We are moving into an age of driverless vehicles which will slash road deaths. People are CONSTANTLY looking to improve road safety.

What the FUCK are America doing to improve 'gun safety'? Literally nothing, because too many people love the 'freedom' to own a gun. Its perverse, the obsessions with 'freedom'.

I don't call living in fear of being shot every day or your life, worrying about sending your kids to school in case they get massacred, I don't that freedom, I would call it quite the opposite.

This subject comes up quite a lot on pan-atlantic forums and descends into choas each time, because literally, we Europeans cannot even begin to understand why you are all so precious about keeping a bloody gun, when literally tens of thousands of men woman and children are dying each year as a direct result. it's sheer lunacy, and the ferocity with which you defend the 'right to bear arms' cannot help but make us look at you in pity in many ways. Sorry, but it's true.
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Male 41,571
ImaginaryN Race-based Drugs Gangs are responsible for almost all of the differences. Until the criminals are disarmed it is suicide to disarm the public.

After the UK initiated their gun bans? Gun smuggling and gun crime rose dramatically. Now guns are used much more often during things like robberies, and police are being armed (with machineguns) to stop this... Gun murders did not drop, they still are going up while in America they are (were) declining with more guns than ever.
So no, laws don't protect anyone!

It may sound like cherry-picking, but without those gang killings the USA is very comparable to Europe. Remember: there's some violent places in Europe too, even with all your laws and regulations, yes?
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Male 10,361
5cats THE LAFWFUL CITIZENS WITH THE LAWFUL GUNS ARE THE ONES COMMITTING MASS SHOOTINGS.
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Male 41,571
holygod NO THEY ARE NOT.
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Male 10,361
5cats How do you figure? All the recent major mass shooters that I can think of were people with no record who passed a background check and bought their guns legally. SO the safeguards did fuck all.
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Male 4,191
It seems like we are the only nation that thinks of mass shootings in the same way we think of hurricanes, "Welp it just happens, nothing can be done to prevent it."

I would be curious as to how the 2nd amendment folks think we could actually stop mass shootings.

I just hate when they use the term "record number of people killed", this gives every yahoo a target number to beat so they can become number 1.



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Male 21,129
daegog That's what Bill O'Reilly said, sort of...

TL; DR: Mass shootings in America is its "price of freedom."

+ + +

Once again, the big downside of American freedom is on gruesome display.  A psychotic gunman in Las Vegas has committed the worst mass murder in U. S. history. 

64-year-old Stephen Paddock, who lived in Nevada, began firing from a hotel window about 10pm Pacific time last night.  His targets were folks attending a music festival below him.  When it was all over, more than 50 human beings lay dead, 400 plus wounded.  Paddock apparently killed himself as police closed in on him. 

The murderer had a number of deadly weapons in his room and you can count on the gun control debate to ramp up. 

But having covered scores of gun-related crimes over the years, I can tell you that government restrictions will not stop psychopaths from harming people. 

They will find a way. 

Public safety demands logical gun laws but the issue is so polarizing and emotional that little will be accomplished as there is no common ground. 

The NRA and its supporters want easy access to weapons, while the left wants them banned. 

This is the price of freedom.  Violent nuts are allowed to roam free until they do damage, no matter how threatening they are.

The Second Amendment is clear that Americans have a right to arm themselves for protection.  Even the loons.

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540
fancylad You're getting a bum deal, then, because you're really not that much freer than your contemporaries. Yeah, here in Australia we only have freedom of political speech, not complete freedom of speech (well, effectively we do, but it's not enshrined in the constitution), but then again, we don't have things like "free speech zones". Nor are cops able to just take your money because they "suspect" you're going to use it for drugs (civil forfeiture). And we actually get a choice when it comes to federal politics - last election, the ballot paper was over a meter long in order to fit all the parties onto it. And hey, if I get out of the car when a cop stops me, other Australians don't lose their minds over how dumb this is and how likely I am to get shot by the cop. Oh, and I can go to a brothel and buy sex from a sex worker, without having to use a loophole that requires I film and publish it to be legal.

Americans have done an unbelievable job at convincing themselves that they're so much freer than everyone else, when really they're not.
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Male 102
daegog  Hey I'm pro 2nd Amendment and I think everyone should be familiar with firearms, I believe that if more people carried, gun violence would go down.  I'd much rather go in the direction of personal responsibility to ensure safety rather than relying (give up rights) on the government.  
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Male 4,191
grryan Lets give everyone in that crowd a handgun.  Do you think the death count goes up or down?

How many people do you think could shoot Paddock, 30+ stories up, at night, from the ground?
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540
daegog The guy in the band who said he flipped his opinion on the 2nd Amendment was saying that even if you were armed in that situation, you couldn't pull out your weapon for fear that someone else would mistake you for the gunman.
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Male 10,361
daegog Or the people that would hear gun shots, see people running, see someone in the crowd with a gun, and pull their gun out to shoot that person. Then someone sees that person fire and shoots them. Great plan.
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Male 4,383
holygod Does that happen a lot on your planet?
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Male 10,361
trimble Oh ya. That is such an outlandish, impossible scenario. 

20,000 people in the dark, with crazy lights, with alcohol, with loud music, running around in chaos, being fired on from 500 yards away and 400 feet up. You know what that situation needed? More guns.
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Male 41,571
daegog You first Mr.Gun Grabber: what specific law or set of laws would have prevented this or any other tragedy?

The rate of murders and even mass killings is much higher in some other nations with smaller populations. Something your kind always ignores... take Mexico for example. Very strict laws, over 3x the rate...
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540
5cats Mexico is a fucking stupid example. You should try other first-world nations with mature, robust economies and societies with a decent respect for law. You'll find the US sucks arse in homicide rate compared to those.

Latin America is the worst place on the planet for homicide rate, so comparing the US to Latin America is stacking the deck and not even bothering to hide your fakery.
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Male 41,571
barry9a Mexico is in North America along with Canada, the USA and a few tiny places...

It has very strict laws, the kind Democrats want for you. How has that worked out for them so far eh? Socialist paradise yes?
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540
5cats Latin America != South America. You will search for any excuse, won't you?
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Male 15,402
5cats two ad hominem attacks and faulty debating logic by substitution. Also fallacious statement of fact.
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Male 41,571
Draculya You are so fucking boring...
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Male 10,361
5cats 
"what specific law or set of laws would have prevented this or any other tragedy?"
Well, I mean, if 30 years ago they would have made it so that it was illegal to manufacture, or possess any gun except for a 6 shot revolver, 1 shot rifle, or 3 shot shotgun he probably never would have had access to the guns he used. Right?

"take Mexico for example"
Are you comparing the U.S.A. to a worn-torn third world nation infested with drug cartels? Shouldn't we compare ourselves to France, Japan, Great Britain, Germany, etc? Not have to stoop to picking Colombia or El Salvador or Mexico? What kind of bar is that?

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Male 41,571
holygod There are guns 'on the street' (ie: illegal) far older than 30 years. Try again.

Um, Mexico is in North America, I met your requirements and that is that. 
Why not use Iceland? Or Andorra? Cherries don't grow on trees you know, you have to make an effort to pick them!! 
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Male 1,381
5cats Cherries MOST DEFINITELY grow on trees
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Male 10,361
doiknowyou FUCKING LOL
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Male 41,571
holygod (it was sarcasm, but doiknow isn't sharp enough to get it)
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Male 10,361
5cats Ha. I didn't know if it was sarcasm, or a typo, or just misinformation. I'll give ya benefit of the doubt (once we agree on what "arms" means. ;) ).
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Male 10,361
5cats 
"There are guns 'on the street' (ie: illegal) far older than 30 years. Try again."
There are. However, if there were not constantly new guns flooding the market those ones would be so rare and valuable they would costs tens of thousands of dollars and be almost impossible for the average criminal or wanna be mass shooter to get one. DOn't you think?

Mexico is in the middle of a full fledged drug war. A legitimate WAR. that would be like comparing our gun murder rate during the civil war. I am aware Mexico is in North America. What do you mean "met my requirements"?
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Male 41,571
holygod Nope. The more money there is to make? The MORE guns will come over the open borders you Democrats love so much!
Look at cocaine and heroin and tell me that the border is secure, that no more guns will flood in if they earn billions for the crime cartels...
Mexico is a socialist paradise from many years of wise communist party rule...
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Male 10,361
5cats Guns aren't made in mexico. Plus you can't swallow an AR15 in a condom or hide it in a pallet of coffee cans. 

Plus a kilo of cocaine has a street price of $25,000 - $30,000. How many kilos of cocaine take up the space necessary for an AR15? 4 or 5? WAY different financial incentive.

Even if they DID get smuggled you'd have to have access to the criminal underworld to get one. I wouldn't. Would you? You think the 64 year old retiree knows a lot of hookups in the criminal underworld? Or Laughner? Or Lanza?

At the very least you have to admit it would be MUCH harder for these guys to have gotten them.
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Male 1,381
holygod Important detail, most guns used in the Mexican drug war are smuggled from the USA. If I remember correctly, about 70% of guns used in the drug war were from the USA
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Male 41,571
doiknowyou Yes, Obama and his man Holder sent the Cartels plenty of firepower.

And you don't think all those guns won't come back if the US made them illegal and confiscated everything? You think the cartels and smugglers wouldn't bring them in? Seriously...
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Male 1,381
5cats Obama sure did it just as ANY presidential puppet would have done (What the CIA says goes). I can say for sure that it would have made at least 70% of their inventory more difficult for them to get.
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Male 1,381
5Cats My question to you is: Would you trade in our gun control for what the USA has knowing that we would probably fall victim to the same fate of regular mass shootings?
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Male 1,381
5Cats So....have an answer yet?
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Female 8,177
The conspiracy nuts are already out in force. Also BTW, in case you were worried, Puerto Rico is fine- loads of aid, all agencies are there in force- the puerto Ricans are lying.  This attack isn't real- so go and polish your golf trophy and relax.
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Male 41,571
madduck Actually? Cruz really IS lying, and for a change no one is letting the MSM get away with it. There was ample aid, sent well in advance, Trump did everything a President can and should do. Just like Bush did, and the MSM lied about that too...
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Female 8,177
5cats - all the above actually came from Yanks I know- although I am slightly curious why C.I.A, Homeland security and the F.B.I are there. No- the above all came from Facebook feeds rather than the News networks. I keep in contact with a couple of total riight wing nuts- one's actually quite a nice chap, but the woman is a nasty piece of work. She advocates killing women who are lesbians- by which she means those who don't wear heels, make up, carry guns or go to church. I thought she was joking but apparently she actually means every word she says- scary insane person, but as God put Trump in power it means he must be doing perfectly. She also thinks the world now respects America... total nut case but highly entertaining.

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Male 8,198
Well good thing Congress and Trump are praying about these atrocious acts.  Listen the time for Prayer is over, the time for Strict gun laws is nigh.  This won't solve gun crime over night or in 20 years, it's going to take decades to root out all firearms but it can be done, just have to be dedicated.  I'm sorry we need to lower the amount of access to high powered firearms to our citizenry. Everyone can have a bolt action or revolver style gun automatic and semi automatic weapons are out of the question.
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Male 41,571
normalfreak2 And the lies of the Gun Grabbers begin...
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Male 15,402
5cats let all the fallacious defences of "gun nuts" begin.
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Male 4,383
normalfreak2 I don't think you could get the Second Amendment repealed any time soon very easily, I would say probably never.
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540
trimble there are already restrictions on weapons despite the second amendment (eg: flamethrowers), so there's precedent to work around it.
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Male 8,198
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Male 4,383
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Male 5,186
trimble well, at this pace the extinction will come fast and with that you will have also the end of the Second Amendment.
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Male 4,383
piperfawn I kind of doubt your empire falling scenario as well. 
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Male 5,186
trimble another reason for the fall of an empire is the inconsciousness. When you are at the top of the chain for too much time you loose the judgement and the contact with the reality. Anyway every empire in the history of the world has fallen. It work simply like that, nothing on this planet can be eternal.


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Male 5,186
And now let's sell and buy more guns! Cause we all know that more guns you have around and more safe you are! Yeah, it seems is working exactly like that,right? Oh, that ,obviously, is gonna work untill the next mass carnage, then you will have to buy more guns. The fall of an empire usually is a suicide and is not caused by external factors. Hmm USA...check!
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Male 10,361
In other countries someone shooting and killing a dozen or more people would be part of the national consciousness for a long time. For us it happens so often we forget about them.

Vegas
Pulse
Virginia Tech
Sandy Hook
San Bernadino
Fort Hood
Aurora
Tuscon
Charleston

This is just a few and just the last decade. These people were "law abiding citizens" with legally acquired guns (IIRC). So what the fuck? I am repeatedly told "guns aren't the problem" or "enforce the laws on the books". Then what is? What sets us apart? What is it about America if not for our widespread and rampant gun access? We aren't the only country with crazy people.
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Male 8,198
holygod The list of mass shootings is so large it doesn't matter.  There's a section of our populace that is so fearful of losing their mighty gun they will oppose everything.  Congress needs to be brave and take it away.  It's over 1 man mowed down hundreds..........What is it going to take for Congress to do SOMETHING instead of pray or be silent?
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2,919
holygod You forgot Charleston. The ar in sandy hook was stolen. The ar's in san beradino were what seems like straw purchases. 
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Male 10,361
skypirate FUCK. See? Ya, totally forgot that one. Thanks. Edited. Sandy hook was "stolen" from his mom. Don't know if that counts as stolen if he was allowed access to it.
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2,919
holygod I'd say so. My mom will let me in her house, doesnt mean I can take shit off the walls and walk out with it. 
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Male 10,361
skypirate Ya. But I don't know what the arrangement was. Maybe he was allowed to take one whenever he wanted. There were reports that some of them were his according to his brother.
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2,919
holygod Shit, you forgot Colorado as well. 
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Male 10,361
skypirate Fucked up right? Thanks. I actually remembered that one I just forgot to type it when I was going through my list.
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2,919
holygod I lived in Tucson during that shooting. Hell, I bought my p22 in that same shopping center. Then I moved to Charleston and drove by that church for a few years on my way to work. 
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Male 10,361
skypirate whoa. That's kinda creepy. 
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2,919
holygod 
it ain't me i'm no senator's son

Just happenstance. 
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Male 5,186
holygod Columbine
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Male 10,361
piperfawn Ya but I was keeping it within the last decade.
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Male 4,191
How did it take the cop swat a FULL HOUR to assault his room?

Vegas is crawling with cops, they must have been alerted within 5 minutes of the first shots.

I wonder how vegas will respond?  I know the casinos cannot like the idea of metal detectors, it would destroy the flow of people in and out of their of the cash cows.

Hell the casinos in detroit don't even use metal detectors (something we have all wondered at greatly)
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Male 10,361
This is interesting:

Eric, the brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 50 people from his hotel room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino late Sunday, told the Orlando Sentinel that their father was Benjamin Hoskins Paddock.

The elder Paddock, born in Wisconsin in 1926, had a host of other fake names and nicknames, including “Big Daddy” and “Old Baldy," and was on the FBI’s Top Ten Most Wanted list from 1969 to 1977.
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Male 4,191
holygod Did you notice why his father was on the top ten most wanted list?
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Male 10,361
daegog Bank robbery and prison escape I think.
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Male 5,419
holygod What also caught my eye about the father is that the FBI described him, when he was an escaped prisoner, as "a diagnosed psychopath." In 1971, the father tried to run down an FBI agent with his car in Las Vegas.

I don't know how much genetics plays a role in psychopathy, but this father-son connection has me wondering.
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever trying to run down a cop when you are an escaped criminal doesn’t make you a psychopath.

I would question his sanity if he stopped and offered him a lift though.

The Vegas connection is thin.  I defer to your original advice: hold comment until more facts are in.
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Male 5,419
woodyville06 I can see how you read my comment that way, but I never meant to imply that trying to run someone over with a car makes one a psychopath (but it isn't exactly a testament to mental health either, is it?). What I found notable was that the FBI described Paddock's father as a "diagnosed psychopath," a diagnosis that was presumably made by a psychiatrist while he was in prison.

Sure, the Vegas connection is thin, but it's a remarkable coincidence. If you disagree, fine.

I do agree that speculation about Stephen Paddock's mental illness--if he had one--is a bad idea and do agree that it's better to wait until more facts are in. Point taken. After the first report of Paddock's mental illness were made by the BBC, I haven't seen any other reports of mental illness. That may be because of patient privacy laws or it may be that the original report was wrong.
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever full disclosure, I had an opportunity to be a wise ass and took it:)

The problem with the situation at this point is this: we are taking everything we hear about him, which isn’t much, and trying and make it equate to Charles Whitman or Lee Harvey Oswald so we can say “who didn’t see this coming?” And that is BS.

And it really could be a conspiracy, who knows?  We never will.  Take another look at the Zapruder film and ask yourself if the Warren Commission’s findings make sense.
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Male 41,571
holygod Eh? That really IS very interesting! Might explain a few things... or not :-/
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Male 4,191
People in Vegas going to the blood banks in droves to give guns BLOOD, so that's helpful.. Hopefully some extra blood drive areas can be set up and increase the rate.
https://i.imgur.com/uVaJbkl.gifv

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Male 1,561
daegog people are going to blood banks to donate guns?  Are you fucking serious?

If that’s a joke it’s not funny.
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Male 41,571
woodyville06 There are good people everywhere!
And that is a hysterical typo! I'm glad daegog was classy and used the line thing to fix it :-)
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Male 4,191
woodyville06 oops, typo, it was blood.
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Male 4,191
How come I never hear any comments about white on white crime?

This guy beats the ENTIRE CITY OF CHICAGO, you know the scariest place on earth, and no one ever mentions that bit.
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Male 1,561
daegog what in the world are you talking about?
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Male 41,571
daegog 58 is not even close to Chicago's annual toll, and neither is 600 wounded.

Shameless exploitation and lies from the usual sources.
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Male 4,191
5cats It depends on how ya count, 18 died this weekend, for Chicago, not so bad.

When you are safer in south chicago than vegas over a warm weekend, that's telling. 
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Male 41,571
daegog You must be joking...
I'll wager that the number of white men going on shooting sprees in Vegas in the entire year is... under 10. And the death toll is a fraction of the annual Chicago tally. 

How about last weekend? How many white shooting sprees were there in Vegas? And how many died in Chicago? What about next weekend? I rest my case.
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Male 15,402
5cats logical fallacy. The only acceptable number of shooting sprees is zero. It's not that hard to achieve without guns.
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Male 41,571
Draculya The only acceptable number of traffic accident deaths is zero, yes? Or do you want people to die you monster? So ban all the cars and trucks and Presto! So many lives saved.
Then grow up, ok?

And please explain to me IN DETAIL exactly how you'd take ALL the guns away from both lawful citizens AND the criminals too. Every single one.
THEN explain how you'd stop more guns from entering America, like ALL the cocaine and heroin does (for example).
THEN explain how cops and soldiers would also be prevented from going on shooting sprees too. I'm presuming they would still have firearms, yes? So what would stop them?

In specific detail: or fucking shut up with your piss-poor dogma.
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Male 1,561
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Male 4,191
woodyville06 i was looking at the wrong month, 18 is not right for this last weekend.
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Female 469
Explain to me again why Americans need access to automatic weapons?
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Male 41,571
DrCribbens Automatic weapons are already strictly licenced and regulated. 
Very few people "need" automatic weapons, but it is their constitutional right to own them if they are a lawful citizen.
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Male 15,402
5cats incorrect fact and two logical fallacies. You argue that there is already sufficient gun control in a thread about the all time high score for shooting fish in a barrel.


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Male 41,571
Draculya And you have proof these were legally owned guns? Fuck off.
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Male 10,361
5cats It is? Which part of the constitution mentions automatic weapons? This guy was a law abiding citizen right? Probably still wasn't a good idea for him to get one.
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Male 8,792
holygod Which part of the constitution mentions the internet and computers? Does that mean anything you post does not enjoy First Amendment rights?

The term used in the Constitution is ARMS.  That pretty much covers it. 
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Male 10,361
megrendel Then by your rationale I have the constitutional right to nuclear bombs.

We can LIMIT what constitutional rights apply to. Ever heard of perjury? Libel? Slander? the 1st amendment IS NOT UNFETTERED why do you think the 2nd needs to be?
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Male 41,571
holygod A bomb is not an arm, oh illiterate one, it is ordnance...
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ordnance

The 2nd Amendment is ALREADY limited by very strict laws, a fact you choose to ignore. No one at all is arguing those laws should be lifted, especially not the NRA.

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Male 15,402
5cats ad hominem attack covering misdirection. HG is arguing for stricter controls, not saying that none exist.
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Male 41,571
Draculya "We can LIMIT what constitutional rights apply to."
No, you are wrong. HE asks if we can limit, and I say we ALREADY DO LIMIT.
You are the one pulling shit out of your own ass.
Stop being so boring, geez get a life!
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Male 10,361
5cats The NRA spent almost $7 million last year fighting against background checks in Nevada.
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Male 10,361
5cats 
"A bomb is not an arm, oh illiterate one, it is ordnance..."
Uhhhhhh. God you are dumb.

That site defines "arm" as: "a means (such as a weapon) of offense or defense"

An ordnance is a type of arm. Arm is a very global term for basically all weapons, including bombs. That's like I say something is a polygon and you respond with "NUH UH IT'S A SQUARE STUPID!!!!!"

You ever heard of the "NUCLEAR ARMS RACE"? Did you think they were stocking up on nuclear guns?

You should stick to subjective things in debates because when it comes to objective things like math or definitions I slaughter you.


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Male 41,571
holygod A bomb is a firearm now? DO TELL!

Your delusions are laughable, tell me again how Obama 'lowered the deficit' ok? He lowered it from 350B to 1.0T! And then lowered the oceans and healed the Earth! (He said so himself!)

Because 350,000,000,000 (Bush's average over 8 years) is Higher than 1,000,000,000,000 (Obama's 8 year average) now, right?

Tell me again about your prowess in maths...
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Male 10,361
5cats 
"A bomb is a firearm now? DO TELL!"

Oh Jesus Christ. You really need to do yourself a favor and google things before you come in here. 

"Arm" is not just short for "firearm". "Arms" is it's own word. A knife, a hand gun, a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear bomb are all "arms". I'm not going to argue with you over what a fucking word means. Look it up or don't.

This is just like the argument over what "burglary" means. YOU DON'T GET TO JUST MAKE UP WHAT YOU THINK WORDS MEAN. They already have definitions.

I'm going to explain the deficit ONE MORE TIME. The deficit is the amount each year that the government spends over and above what it takes in. It is NOT the debt, but does add to it.

In 2009 which was Bush's budget the deficit was: $1,412 Billion
2010: $1,294
2011: $1,299
2012: $1,086
2013: $679
2014: $484
2015: $438
2016: $584

Understand? See how the deficit LOWERS? I can't believe I have to explain this to a grown ass man AGAIN.

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Male 41,571
holygod AVERAGE OVER 8 YEARS not the last one which the Democrats padded with over 300B of additions AFTER the election and Bush was a lame-duck. Then after Obama got in HE added another 600B in stimulus to Bush's budget... facts matter!

You keep trying that same pack of lies, and it fails every time.

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Male 5,419
holygod You can take my nuclear gun when you pry it from my cold, dead, glowing paws!

~throws dictionary at 5Cats~

5Cats, get MoldySod in here. You need some reinforcement in the worst way. I'm sure ol' Moldy will agree with your dopey definitions.
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Male 41,571
holygod We do not know anything yet. Were his guns legal? No idea yet. Was he law abiding? Early reports say yes.

The US Constitution doesn't mention them because they weren't invented yet, so just stop with the childish nonsense. It doesn't mention cars or aeroplanes either btw... O_o
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Male 15,402
5cats logical fallacy, ad hominem and misdirection. Control is more than the legality of possession; it includes enforcement, checks, administrative hurdles and seizures. The NRA is fighting it all.
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Male 10,361
5cats 
Lanza was a "lawful citizen" wasn't he?
Loughner was a "lawful citizen" wasn't he?
Holmes was a "lawful citizen" wasn't he?
Mateen was a "lawful citizen" wasn't he?

I mean you guys always say guns aren't the problem but I don't think homeboy could have injured 500 people with a knife. What is the solution? What keeps guns out of the hands of these guys if not stricter gun regulation?

"The US Constitution doesn't mention them because they weren't invented yet"
Right. So why would you say it guarantees them?
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Male 41,571
holygod Fire kills people too, it's a favorite weapon for mass killers. Explosives are rare in North America but popular in most of the rest of the world. Guns are lawfully used roughly 2 million times a year to defend life, that "is not news" though because mostly a shot is never even fired.

I say it does because the US Supremes have repeatedly said it does. How hard is that to understand? 

Ban matches first ok?
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Male 15,402
5cats logical fallacy by substitution.
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Male 10,361
5cats Matches serve utilitarian function, just like knives, baseball bats, cars, whatever bullshit you want to state here. Guns provide no utilitarian function outside of allowing you to kill more effectively. It is their sole and only purpose. "Ban matches first" Is SUCH a ridiculous statement.

"Guns are lawfully used roughly 2 million times a year to defend life" Where are you getting that stat? Source please.
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Male 41,571
holygod FBI and CDC and several other agencies that gather such stats. It has been discussed here before: between 500K to 4M times a year an American uses a gun (or the threat of a gun) to prevent or deter a crime. Rarely is a shot fired, and many simply go unreported too.
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Male 15,402
5cats logical fallacy. Having guns in society does not reduce the number of gun crimes. 
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Male 5,419
holygod Just a bit of info to share; I don't know if or how it affects any arguments about gun control.

Apparently, firearms experts say the audio of the massacre suggests that Paddock was using one or more semi-automatic rifles that had been modified to simulate full-automatic fire. They say the pattern of the rifle's firing shows slight inconsistencies, sometimes a sputtering fire, that is inconsistent with a fully automatic weapon. 

One option is something called a "trigger crank," which bolts onto the gun. Each revolution of a crank handle pulls the trigger three times.

Another option is something called a "bump stock," which helps the shooter use each recoil of the rifle to pull the trigger again.

Both items can be easily purchased online and are fairly inexpensive.
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever I’m not sure any of this is relevant.  An AR (or AK) with a stack of loaded magazines (even 10 rounders, you just need more of them) and an idiot on a mission can do this anytime they want.  A semi auto fires every time you pull the trigger, and as fast as you can pull it.  You can make it sound almost like full auto.

It’s not the hardware, it’s America.  The people here are whacked.
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Male 5,419
woodyville06 I disagree with everything you're saying here.

First, I don't think anyone could manually fire off several hundred shots in rapid, sustained succession, for over 10 minutes, the way Paddock did simply by using his finger.

Second, you think Americans are fundamentally different than the people in other countries? Bah. It is the hardware. Compare the 1966 Texas clock tower shooting with what happened last night. The events had a lot of similarities. The chief differences being: (1) Whitman killed 17 and injured 31; Paddock killed 59 (and that number will surely rise over the next few days as critically wounded victims die) and injured 527; (2) semi-automatic rifles and conversion kits to simulate full automatic fire weren't readily available in 1966 but are ubiquitous in 2017. I don't see how anyone can deny that 1 and 2 are related.
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever you should take pause and consider I spent more than a couple of days in the army: yes, you can burn through 100s of rounds on semi-auto with just your finger.

I’m not arguing that he didn’t have all that other bump stock crap nor that it made the carnage easier for him.  I’m arguing that it doesn’t matter.  If you have semi automatic weapons available, This event will not be unique.  It you have any guns at all, people will get shot.
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Male 5,419
woodyville06 Take a look at what you've just written, please. I'm quoting two of your sentences (emphasis is mine):

"I’m not arguing that he didn’t have all that other bump stock crap nor that it made the carnage easier for him.  I’m arguing that it doesn’t matter."

Seriously, Woody. WTF?

I suspect we're going to have to disagree to disagree. I'm getting the sense that you are opposed to any form of gun control. If that's the case, we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this issue.
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever did you read this part “If you have semi automatic weapons available, This event will not be unique.  It you have any guns at all, people will get shot”. That was the point.

If you allow semi auto weapons you need to accept incidents like this.  Focusing on bump stocks etc is a waste of time.  I don’t know why you would assume I’m not in favor of gun control.
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Male 4,383
squrlz4ever With practice one can bump fire without the bump stock.
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Male 10,361
trimble THAT effectively though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6FnhUYifgs
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Male 4,383
holygod Just saying one can, the stocks are also easy to make. I sure would like to know about his weapons. I guess we may eventually. I guess.
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Male 10,361
squrlz4ever Yes. I can legally purchase an AR 15 and a bump stock and a 100 round drum magazine. 

This is legal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6FnhUYifgs

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Male 5,419
holygod Jesus. I had no idea how readily available this stuff is. You know how many psychopaths are circulating within a country of 320 million people?
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Male 1,561
squrlz4ever or you could buy a bolt action (Mauser WWII vintage maybe) and do some similar damage.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_a7pXWi6xo

Shooting into a crowd doesn't require precision to generate a body count 

Gun control will solve this?  You would need to ban guns outright and then manage to collect them all.
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Male 4,191
squrlz4ever You don't even need to practice it "bumb firing" now

http://www.slidefire.com/videos

You can buy slide fire stocks that do it for you.  Good thing right?
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Male 5,419
DrCribbens Because there are a lot of American dipshits who think they're going to fight off the U.S. military in some kind of American Patriots/Freedom Fighters Vs. The New World Order/Big Gubmint.

Recently, one IAB'er (whom I won't name because he isn't here to defend himself) told me that every American should have unfettered access to any and all weapons available to the U.S. military. I kid you not. Automatic weapons? Psssh. That's just for starters. He thinks every Average Joe should be allowed to stockpile hand grenades, mortars, flame throwers, bazookas, and landmines. This is a grown adult man, by the way, not a 13-year-old kid (so far as I know, anyway).
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Male 10,361
squrlz4ever He (if we're talking about the same person) also said it was unconstitutional to restrict gun sales to the mentally ill and felons.
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Male 5,419
holygod Ugh. Yeah, I think we're talking about the same person. You know what worries me? That someone with views that extreme would have no difficulty at all getting a gun in this country. People like that are exactly the ones I want to keep guns away from.
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Male 21,129
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Male 4,191
DrCribbens one word: AMMOSEXUALS
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Male 10,361
Let's check in at infowars:

"No mere "out of the blue" lone Amatuer Gunman could have committed this Atrocity! This was 2 CIA Deep State Snipers at least, and one Dead Patsy! The Globalist use this exact same script to start Civil Wars recently in Ukraine, Syria Libya and countless other Countries World Wide so why should we think we are immune to their Evil Ways? Arrest the MSM Hate Speech Preachers and their Globalist Masters!"

Stop this country, I want to get off.
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Male 8,198
holygod What the crap?  Wow, just wow.  Sad part is people listen to breitbart and Alex Jones.  What a tragedy....
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Male 10,361
Can you imagine if this guy was an illegal immigrant or a muslim? 5cats would have had 30 comments on here by now. 

Here is the #1 comment on the article on breitbart.com with 588 upvotes:

"Trump has been trying to help protect us from this and liberals have overuled him at every step.

The Sudanese immigrant who shot up a White Christian Church in Tennessee, now we see this horrific attack.

You liberal sanctuary city appeasers are to blame for this carnage!

The 9th Circuit should feel proud they stopped our President from protecting our homeland.

Sickening!!"


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Male 21,129
This answers my question about the hotel room windows...
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Male 2,717
Been sick in bed, just hearing about this now.

My condolences, American friends.
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Male 1,381
Americans should hurry and make sniper rifles more readily available to the public
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Male 4,191
doiknowyou PLEASE do not give them ideas.
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Female 4,654
and guess who the first to politicize this was with low-IQ bullshit?  surprise!
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Male 8,792
melcervini No such thing as a Silencer.
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2,919
megrendel It's pretty fucking silent. But ya, you hear the action drop and the bullet hit the target. 

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Male 5,308
melcervini I wanted Hillary in office. I also groaned and said, "Why?" this morning when I saw this stupid comment of hers.
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Male 15,402
markust123 while I may agree with her sentiment, I fully agree she should shut her trap and fade away.

She does not speak for Democrats, and remains reviled by Republicans. Her saying it only makes the situation all the more intractable.
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Male 10,361
markust123 Ditto. I wish she'd go away.
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Male 5,419
holygod Ditto.
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Male 41,571
melcervini "Silencers" LOLZ! She's watched too many Hollywood movies... and is an idiot too.

Reportedly he had "an arsenal" of 10 weapons and a few thousand rounds of ammo, the DNC and MSM will be shrieking about this for months and years to come.
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Male 4,191
melcervini If you didn't do the exact same thing when trump politicized EVERY SINGLE goddamn thing while he was running, well then you are full of shit.  Sandy and Oklahoma disasters, Navy Yard shooting, Florida Night Club Shooting, Baltimore riots.  Every time the orange douche tweeted  useless politicized comments, did you feel the need to post the same? 

Is there truth to what she posted?  Well no one uses that term silencers but hollywood.  And I do not think that many shots could be suppressed/hidden easily.  Suppressors, are not the problem here, Ammosexuals are the problem.


Shares of gun makers rallied Monday, in the wake of what has been described as the deadliest mass shooting on U.S. soil.

Smith & Wesson parent American Outdoor Brands Corp.’s stock AOBC, +4.00% jumped 2.3% in morning trade, Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc. shares RGR, +3.72% climbed 3.7% and Vista Outdoor Inc. shares VSTO, +2.96%  rose 1.4%.

Analysts say the regulatory environment is among the biggest drivers of demand for guns, as fears of tighter regulation have boosted gun sales and share prices in the past. Since President Trump was elected, however, fears of tighter regulations have faded and share prices have dropped.

American Outdoor’s stock had tumbled 46% since the election through Friday, and closed at a 2 ½-year low of $13.31 as recently as Sept. 11. Sturm, Ruger shares have shed 20% since the election, and had also hit a roughly 2 ½-year low in September. Vista Outdoor’s stock, which hit a record low in April, has plunged 40% since the election.


Nothing drives gun sales faster than mass shootings (except maybe obama talking about gun control).  How are any of us the least bit safer with 1000s of more guns in circulation.  More guns are sold because of FEAR they for some reason won't be able to get more guns than any actual NEED for more guns.
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Female 4,654
daegog why should I give a shit about orange-boy?  I'm talking about less than 12 hours she's trotting out the lies over the bodies of almost 60 human beings.  The NRA had nothing to do with this.  "Imagine the deaths if he had a silencer"  If he had, it **would** have malfunctioned and far less people would have been shot.  Outside her ridiculous scenario, "suppressors" would have made ZERO difference, because you can still hear the gunfire and the supersonic 'crack'
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Male 41,571
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2,919
daegog Well no one uses that term silencers but hollywood. 

And the ATF and Maxim. TBH the UK got it right by calling them moderators. 
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Male 41,571
skypirate It isn't the word 'silencer' it is the idea Hillary promotes that these would somehow "silence" the sound of gunfire, ok? THAT is the stupid part. And the crack about the NRA making them easier to get? They are available almost everywhere already, so? They are almost never used in crimes.

Also: we don't know (for sure) if he had or used suppressors or not. Almost certainly not...
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2,919
5cats My stamps say 'silencer'. Call it what ever you want, I know what you're talking about. But the NFA says silencer. The guy that held the patent said silencer. The regulating body here in the states calls them silencers. 
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Male 41,571
skypirate Right, that's one term for them, like 'Kleenex' is the generic term for 'tissues' eh? The 'slang' word for a suppressor is 'silencer' we get that.
She didn't use the WORD incorrectly, we're not saying that at all. She used the IDEA incorrectly, yes? It would not have 'silenced' the sound of gunfire so much that people wouldn't hear it. How they heard it above the concert noise is already a mystery to me... but a minor one.

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2,919
5cats It's not slang. The legal term in the states for baffles wrapped in a tube is silencer. It's been this way for like 80 years. It's a dumb name but if you have any doubts take a look at the NFA, the BATFE, the original maxim patent. 
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Male 41,571
skypirate Anyhow, disregardless of that, the POINT IS that Hillary is claiming it would literally 'silence' the gunfire and people getting shot at won't hear anything, ok? That's just dumb and wrong.

She has let out a flurry of comments, she just won't shut up! They're all equally bad.
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Female 4,654
daegog its based on a blatant lie and its politicizing while the bodies are still warm.  Has nothing to do with gun sales, has to do with this fucking ghoul that wont accept that she lost.  There is NO SUCH THING as a "silencer".
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Male 4,191
melcervini Calling out clinton for politicizing this while Trump 100% did the exact same thing several times shows you are fulla shit.

The only winners today are the NRA, the gun manufacturers, and gun stock holders.
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Female 4,654
daegog Fuck Trump and Fuck Hillary and fuck China
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Male 2,717
melcervini 
I think her comments were in poor taste, and I doubt it would have made a difference if he had a suppressor.

However, the term "silencer" appears in Cambridge dictionary, Oxford, Merriam-Webster, etc.

"noun
a device for reducing the noise emitted by a gun or other loud mechanism.
British term for muffler (sense 2)."
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Male 10,361
melcervini What was the lie? That they fled the sounds? Or that the NRA wants to make them easier to get? There is a bill this week in congress about gun silencers.

Are we going to bicker about what it is called? Plenty of people call it a silencer. Silencer or suppressor, do you not admit that one would have made it more difficult to pinpoint where the fire was coming from?
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Female 4,654
holygod because it doesn't *silence* anything.  It reduces the decibels by 30, which **still** has gunfire around the same as a jackhammer.  ALSO, you'll have the following 'crack' on the receiving end that's loud as fuck.  There's no such thing as a silencer.  Also if psycho-dude HAD a suppressor, it would have melted off.

.223
5.56
.45 handgun

Suppressors can't hold up to rapid fire.

She politicized with a blatant lie while the bodies were still warm.  She's a fucking ghoul.
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Male 8,198
melcervini Okay Hillary politicized it, Do you feel the same way about Trump and what he did as well?
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Male 10,361
melcervini I am aware that it doesn't "silence" anything. Movies have made people believe that it turns a gunshot into a soft whisper. I've seen the videos that show the truth. It still is called a silencer.
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Female 4,654
holygod and doesn't silence anything
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Male 41,571
melcervini And it would not have stopped people from "fleeing the sound of gunfire" either. THAT is the issue here: Hillary claiming a "silencer" would have made things worse. We don't even know that he DIDN'T use one!

And claiming the NRA wants to make them easier to get? DUH! They are already widely available, they are almost NEVER used by criminals (in spite of Hollywood's charades) and as you say would have melted under full-auto fire.
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Male 15,402
5cats logical fallacy. You are arguing that something should be further legalised because there are circumstances where it is legal.
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Male 1,561
holygod a silencer is totally useless in two cases: 1 when used on a revolver and 2, on a rifle (a rifle was used here).  The projectile is traveling at supersonic speed and as such makes a sonic “crack”. The sound would have been heard with or without a “silencer”

Couple that with the high noise environment of thousands of people mixed initially with music and then screams and nobody is going to know where the shots are coming from.

Yes, I will argue that a silencer would not have made any difference to anyone in this case.  The same number of people would be dead and injured.
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Male 41,571
woodyville06 Exactly, but listen to the IAB Liberals line up and defend their idiot leader's idiotic words! And they accuse us of defending Trump's stupidity? Lolz! We don't!

This tragic event will be exploited for years to come.
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Male 10,361
5cats Oh no. She's a dumb cunt and I want her to go away forever. Will never change the fact that she was an infinitely better choice than Trump.
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Male 4,191
This piece of shit could have just shot himself first and saved everyone else a ton of trouble.

And now we gotta look out for the goddamn copy cats.
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Male 5,419
Since I'm seeing a lot of speculation and a little misinformation, here's a digest of what I'd consider to be reliable information about the suspect, Stephen Paddock (as of 11:30 AM).

  • He was 64 years old and unmarried (not sure if never married or divorced; not sure if he had any children). He did have a girlfriend with whom he traveled.
  • He lived in a retirement community in Mesquite, Nevada, about an hour and fifteen minute drive north of Las Vegas.
  • He was never in the military.
  • He had no criminal record.
  • He was essentially retired. For at least some of his career, he worked as a corporate accountant or auditor.
  • His brother said that he had no strong political beliefs and that there were no warning signs that he was capable of violence. His brother said that Paddock liked to gamble in the casinos and liked going to shows in Las Vegas.
  • Family members say that Paddock liked to listen to country music and attended country music concerts.
  • Paddock had an Alaskan hunting license and received a pilot's license in 2003.
  • He appears to have acted alone.
  • Numerous guns, including several rifles, were found by police in his hotel room.
  • Paddock appears to have taken his own life by a self-inflicted gunshot wound just before a SWAT team used an explosive charge to gain entrance to his hotel room.
It's really something of a mystery at this point. I can't find a single red flag in Paddock's background. If he was mentally ill or had strong political leanings, he seems to have kept it all hidden from family and friends and off of social media.
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Female 469
squrlz4ever According to the BBC "One US official told Reuters news agency the gunman had a history of psychological problems."
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Male 5,419
DrCribbens Thanks for the tip. Just went over to BBC and confirmed. I expect a lot more information will be coming to light in the next 24 hours.
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Male 1,845
Huh, and already some news sites are spinning that maybe this could have been stopped by a good man with a gun.

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Male 5,308
bliznik Shooting 32 stories up at a hotel room would have just put the guests in the hotel in danger of being shot.
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Male 1,845
I really hope the media doesn't publish his "manifesto." I hate it how people can get famous in this country for killing lots and lots of people. Why is this a thing??? It really sickens me that if someone wants attention and nobody's paying attention to them, they just have to kill a bunch of people and BOOM, their manifesto is published and everyone and their brother is reading it.
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540
bliznik Why not publish his manifesto? The same fuckwits who defend neo-nazi crap because "free speech isa binary state" can trot out their usual bullshit excuses about the harmlessness of crazy talk.
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Male 1,832
So 18 tweets shitting on the mayor and citizens of Puerto Rico. Numerous tweets about black football players taking a knee. Countless tweets whenever a Muslim so much as jaywalks.
But it took a couple of days to condemn the neo nazis and then backtrack on that a few hours later and only one tweet offering condolences. And, judging by the word usage and spelling, I'd bet my left nut that trump didn't write that tweet. 
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540
oobaka also, who says "warmest condolences"? what kind of weird phrase is that?
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Male 41,571
oobaka You lie, you have no shame at all.
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Male 1,832
5cats What did I lie about? 

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Male 41,571
oobaka All of it. The Puerto Rico thing is a lie created from whole cloth by the MSM and DNC.
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Male 1,832
5cats Sooooo...all the tweets that trump wrote about Carmen Yulín Cruz are fictions of my imagination? 
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Male 41,571
oobaka Cruz (D) has been lying about everything, of course Trump calls him on it and provided facts and truth to back it up.

Of course the MSM has no facts and thus go on the attack, this happens almost every time. You would think you'd have seen the pattern by now? They did the EXACT same thing after Katrina, but Bush was silent about it.
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Male 1,832
5cats Just goes to show how informed you are about this topic. Cruz is a woman. If you can't get that right, how many other "facts" have you gotten wrong?
You're a joke with a horrible punch line.
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Male 41,571
oobaka Her, whatever, she's a liar plain and simple.
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540
5cats How the fuck can you claim someone is a liar when you don't even recognise that they're a woman, even when the name is CARMEN?

And you have the balls to bitch about other people having no shame at all.
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Male 41,571
barry9a I made a typo, fuck off.
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Male 1,832
5cats Typo? Really? A typo would be hem or hir...not a full 2 letters wrong.
You're just grasping at straws hoping we'd believe it because the alternative is we'll realize you just automatically take the side of that fat, oozing, orange pustule of hate.
Hate to break it to you but all of us know all we want to know about you.

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540
5cats Your whole life is a typo.
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Male 1,832
5cats LOL
You're caught spouting off "facts" when you don't even know the sex of the person you're calling a liar. You know they're lying but you had no clue who they are. If you had any credibility, you would have just lost what little you had.  
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Male 4,191
oobaka Trump never writes any of his tweets, i would like to know just how big his tweet staff is to be honest.
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Male 1,832
daegog He definitely writes some of them. I'm guessing the ones with incorrectly spelled words or ones ending with "sad !" ...which is almost all of them. 
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Male 196
Sadly, not much will change after this except more security.  I hope i'm wrong.
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585
Islamic State has claimed responsibility..... Apparently he converted to Islam several months ago. 

No doubt a lie but It would be funny if true.
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Male 21,129
layla_wilson I came back to see if anyone posted this before I did. ISIS is claiming he's one of theirs, but it's highly unlikely. My guess is that he snapped.


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Male 715
layla_wilson i fail to see the humour? Not in the its bad taste type of way not laughing but cant actually see the irony or joke why it'd be funny typs of way. 
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Male 41,571
jayme21 No it's true: ISIL is making that claim. Of course it is almost surely not true! But it has been made.

I think gambling and debt might have something to do with this. And alcohol? Anyhow, he seems to have planned it out, it wasn't a sudden thing.
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Male 715

No doubt a lie but It would be funny if true.

I dont get the funny side. Not I dont understand Isis have claimed it. 

Like I could  see twisted humour if this guy was deranged and thought he was killing Isis and it was Isis tgat claimed it. Or this guy was shooting Trumo supporters thinking theyre liberals.

 I just dont see the funny side if ISIS really did have anything to do with it? 
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Male 41,571
jayme21 Oh I missed that!
She's British? Perhaps she means it in terms of "odd or unusual"? I don't think even she would laugh if ISIL really turns out to be behind it...
That would be a big blow to the MSM! Their meme would be ruined, just like in the Giffords case :-/
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2,919
Elevated position, open air concert. Honestly I'm surprised there weren't more people killed. 
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Male 21,129
skypirate I'm not sure if this is confirmed, but I think I read in one report (while I was still half asleep), that he was ex-military, and I just read an interview with his brother who said he's never displayed violent behavior and he "must have just cracked."
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2,919
fancylad IDK man, firing into what you guess are trump supporters seems pretty motivated. Guess time will tell. 
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Male 8,198
skypirate is that the gerry Dolan conspiracy?  Everything I've read is that's a Facebook friend of marylou.  Ie it's not him at least hasn't been verified 
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Male 5,419
skypirate Skypirate, have you read something I haven't or are you just speculating? If it's just speculation--please, don't go there. What's happened is too horrible to start ginning up a conservatives vs. liberals argument out of thin air.
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2,919
squrlz4ever Nothing official. But one doesnt just 'crack' and find them self's posted up in a hotel room firing down on people. Political or otherwise, this was motivated. 
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Male 41,571
skypirate It does seem planned out in advance, not a 'spur of the moment' decision eh?

I'm guessing gambling and debt? He was a heavy gambler it seems, on-line and such too.

Yeah, the crowd was likely Trump supporters, but it seems he too liked country music so... time will tell.
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Male 21,129
I started reading this story at 4am, still half asleep, and when I read that 50 people died, I thought it was a typo. The video posted shows the confusion -- people running in every direction, not knowing really where the bullets were coming from or if there was more than one shooter. 

Side note: I thought the windows on those Vegas high-rises were impenetrable. I'm sure this will all come out later, but I'm assuming he just blasted through the windows? 
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Male 1,845
fancylad Yeah, it looks like he did.

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Male 41,571
bliznik Once you make a hole in them they tend to come apart much easier. Not much can stop a bullet...

There might have been smaller holes before the SWAT team blew the door open to gain entry? We may never know unless some random video image shows the hotel during the shooting.
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Male 4,383
fancylad Yeah he must have eliminated the windows somehow.
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Male 1,832
trimble I doubt one of those windows could withstand concentrated automatic fire and all he'd need is a hole a little smaller than a baseball.
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