Ben Carson Is An Idiot For Calling Slaves A Kind Of Immigrant, Right?

Submitted by: 5cats 2 weeks ago News & Politics


Ben Carson is being relentlessly attacked by the MSM, DNC and liberal-left for a brief, out-of-context quote from a speech he gave here when he called African slaves "immigrants."

Yet, I wonder who else said those words? Oh right! It was... former President Obama. I'm certain the MSM, DNC and liberal-left relentlessly attacked him for his immigrant comment, too.

The comment in question comes around 19 minutes, but 17:45 is the best place to start to see the context of it. Of course the MSM will never show that part...

An Immigrant is one who immigrates, as in "to bring in or send as immigrants." How difficult is that?

Link provided by MelCervini.

There are 67 comments:
Male 37,042
1. At a Naturalization Ceremony in 2015 - National Archives and Records Administration in 2015

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=111241 

"Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those  of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves.There was discrimination and hardship and poverty. But, like you, they no doubt found inspiration in all those who had come before them. And they were able to muster faith that, here in America they might build a better life and give their children something more.”

2. In a speech at a naturalization ceremony in 2012
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/04/remarks-president-naturalization-ceremony 
"We say it so often, we sometimes forget what it means — we are a nation of immigrants. Unless you are one of the first Americans, a Native American, we are all descended from folks who came from someplace else — whether they arrived on the Mayflower or on a slave ship, whether they came through Ellis Island or crossed the Rio Grande." (Note: no 'like a' here. We are ALL immigrants he says.)

And many more. For the record? Obama called slaves immigrants OVER a dozen times in various speeches. 
OVER a dozen, and the MSM couldn't find one before jumping all over Carson.

Please explain this. Thx.

 
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Male 4,373
"Ben Carson Is An Idiot For Calling Slaves A Kind Of Immigrant, Right?"

The title for this post is extremely misleading. Ben didn't make any effort to say slaves were "a kind of" or different type of immigrant. He just called them immigrants. Equating them similarly to immigrants who came here on their own free will was the leading factor for all the confusion in his statement.

It was Obama that took special care to say there was a difference, "Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves."
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Male 37,042
markust123 THEY WERE IMMIGRANTS. Learn to speak the English language before making a fool of yourself.
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Male 1,133
I remember when Obama made the immigrant statement about the slaves, even at the time I felt it was a little disingenuous to the slaves, and I felt the same about Carson's statement. That being said I did not, not understand what he was saying just as I did not misunderstand what Obama was saying, I think the people that are being butt heads about Carson are either just stupid or out to get a good man no matter what. Using immigrant for the plight of the slave is just a wrong use of the word in any situation. Both could have said the same thing better. 
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Male 4,373
There's a lot of spin going on in this thread on both sides. Go to the 17:30 mark in his speech to see his statements in full context. 

I feel bad for Ben that his speech was ruined by the media. I couldn't sit through the whole thing but this part that people are talking about feels like he is speaking with genuine love and understanding for all Americans. That we need to treat everyone with respect.

It's a shame that he wasn't clearer in what he was trying to say. He starts out talking about people coming to Ellis Island and working hard for the dreams of their families. Then he goes into slaves having come here and worked even harder but had the same dreams for their family. In the first statement he is talking about people coming to America and working hard. That made his statement about slaves real confusing like was he saying they came to America with the same dream? As if they even had a choice of coming here. People were legitimately confused about what he was saying. So much so that he had to clarify himself later. The confusion doesn't justify the news jumping on the attack wagon, though. When they do that they are no better than opinion media or your crazy partisan Uncle.
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Male 37,042
markust123 What 'spinning' is the Repub side doing, exactly?
Presenting facts is 'spin' now? Oh really? Admitting he 'could have said it better' is 'spin' too?
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228
5cats, the context is Obama saying "they were involuntary immigrants", and Carson saying "they were immigrants with a great dream for the future". Yes, the literal word is the same, but the picture painted is not.
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Male 37,042
barry9a Do you speak English? What he said was perfectly valid. 
Could Ben have said it a bit better? Yes he could have. Do you resign over something as trivial as "that ONE sentence in that one speech could have been better..."? No, you do not.

And the MAIN POINT is the way the MSM handled both events: you can see the difference, yes?
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228
5cats You've got a pair of fucking balls on you to complain about other people taking a single sentence of of context (regardless of whether or not they did)
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Male 37,042
barry9a And you just ignore my comment, all those valid points, and go in for the personal attacks eh? Well! That says a lot about you.
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Male 3,992
barry9a 
He didn't say:

"they were immigrants with a great dream for the future"

He said: 

"There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less, but they too had a dream..."
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Male 32
richanddead - "even harder for less" - yep, zero is less than anything
"but they had a dream too" - I bet their grandchildren's prosperity took a backseat to hoping and dreaming they pleased their owner enough not to be sold off and having their family ripped apart based on the demeanor of others, economics, and other factors. Obama was clear in his description, Carson muddled his so bad that he has to be the most intelligent dip-shit I've ever seen.
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Male 37,042
bil128 That has sweet fuck-all to do with the subject at hand. Carson was not 'muddled' he was speaking perfectly well. His meaning was 100% valid.

Neither were talking about 'slavery' they both were talking about 'The American Dream' and how all the immigrants, willing or slaves, all wished for the same thing.

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Male 3,992
bil128 

Except he wasn't a talking about what the top dreams of slaves were, he was talking about how America became a land of dreams and opportunity. I'm sorry your partisanship makes it so hard for you to understand what people are saying.
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Male 6,187
richanddead I'm sure they were dreaming of killing their slave owners and captors.
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228
richanddead he's talking about the spirit of emigrating to America for that dream. Not "jeez I'd like to not be a slave anymore", but "hey, America is where I can get prosperity".
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Male 3,992
barry9a 
He's talking about how America is a land of dreams and opportunity because it is built on generations of people who wanted to create better, more prosperous, worlds for their families and the people who would come after them, no matter how they came here.  
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Male 6,187
richanddead Listen you are stretching MIGHTY far here richanddead.    While that sounds great using Slaves as an example of those that dream about coming to America is a bit off.  Just slightly.
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Male 37,042
normalfreak2 Why was Obama OK with saying the exact fucking same thing? Let's hear the DNC playbook on this one...
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Male 3,992
normalfreak2 

It was Ben Carson himself that said he was talking about how America is a land of dreams and opportunity. He's not saying America is about people who dream about coming to america, he's saying America is about people trying to give the next generation an opportunity for something better. He was using slaves as an example of people who were in probably the most hopeless situation of all of those who came to America, but even they still had the same dream.

I think where you're going wrong is that you feel he is saying America is a land of dreams and opportunity because people dream about coming to America. But he is saying that America is a land of dreams and opportunity because the people who are here, no matter how they came here, share the same dream.
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Male 6,187
richanddead Fair enough
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228
richanddead Yeah, of course those slaves didn't want better for their descendants back in Africa. It was only setting foot onto a plantation that did it...
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Male 3,992
barry9a 

I'm sure the slaves wanted better for their descendants back in Africa too. Being slaves, I'm sure they wanted a lot of things and justifiably too. No one is saying that isn't true. Carson is simply saying that people in this country share a dream for opportunity, he is not saying that slaves didn't want better for their descendants back in Africa.
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Male 216
Aye, there definitely seems to be an overreaction with this one.
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Male 4,373
Actually it was Ben Carson himself who made his quote out of contact by not including three very important words:

“There were other immigrants who came here <against their will> in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great-grandsons, great-granddaughters, might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land.”

Obama was very clear in not directly comparing slaves to immigrants who came here on their own free will:

“It wasn’t always easy for new immigrants. Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty.”

I'm not trying to excuse the BS overreaction from the media. Ben's poorly worded statement didn't justify the reactionary response. His sentiment was clear even though his statement wasn't. 
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Male 1,762
markust123 Boom. You nailed it, Markust. Great analysis there. For whatever reasons of rhetoric or sentiment or what-have-you, the addition of just those three words makes the quote entirely fine. I suppose it's the close rhetorical juxtaposition--without comment--of voluntary immigrants' hopes and dreams with the vastly different circumstances of slaves that set this whole thing off. It gave many listeners the sense that Carson didn't fully appreciate the difference.
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Male 205
markust123 Saying they were in the bottom of slave-ships is really implying that it wasn't a willing action. 
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Male 37,042
Fojos This is absolutely correct. Thanks for pointing that out Fojos!
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Male 4,373
Fojos You would think that would be clear, or at least hope so, but even Ben had to clarify his statement, “Slaves were ripped from their families and their homes and forced against their will after being sold into slavery by slave traders. The Immigrants made the choice to come to America. The two experiences should never be intertwined, nor forgotten, as we demand the necessary progress towards an America that’s inclusive and provides access to equal opportunity for all.”

I am in no way sticking up for the media. Ben was trying to make the same point Obama did. Good on him for trying. I mean that from the heart.
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Male 37,042
markust123 I agree, it wasn't perfectly worded. But even the way he said it was... correct! At least in the English language.

And the level of hate and attacking? The racist comments thrown at Ben over this? All the while he was right, all the while the MSM failed to notice that 'their man' also said the exact same thing? Practically anyhow. That's the part that shocked me the most, even though I'm used to the MSM doing such things? The utter and complete bias here is staggering... yet NF2 will defend them. :-/
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Male 4,373
5cats "And the level of hate and attacking? The racist comments thrown at Ben over this?"

I might believe your outrage if you hadn't just yesterday called Obama our "first half-negro president".
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Male 37,042
markust123 So all the days of endless MSM hate-coverage didn't happen because you find an objection to my word usage? Pffft!

Ben Carson is all-black, raised in poverty and is a self-made man. 
Obama is half-black and raised in absolute luxury, who spent his college days stoned out of his tree and cavorting with Marxists... according to his two auto-biographies.
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228
5cats Poor Carson, dealing with all those racist comments. Unlike Obama, who just cruised through without any at all.
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Male 205
What's even more hilarious is that the same democrats who dismiss Carson here are also the same kind of people who will gladly call refugees immigrants. Who said refugees necessarily want to go there? Many are forced to leave their homes.
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Male 3,992
Good post @5cats and @MelCervini, kudos.

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Male 37,042
richanddead Thx! Isn't just mind-blowing that Obama said the same thing and the MSM praised him? Yet ALL those 'news shows' spent all those hours attacking Ben...

Web embeds don't work it seems, gifs usually do:
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Male 1,128
Come on, do liberals actually thing ANYONE is paying attention to their fake crocodile tears on any issue under the sun?   Get a life!  You are getting VERY tedious and boring
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228
spanz 'fake crocodile tears' is a tautology.
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Male 37,042
spanz 8 more years of this... and then 8 more after that... :-D
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Male 37,042
This highlights two very important things:
  1. The MSM is completely and utterly biased. All sorts of stations viciously attacked Carson for his words. Will they now attack Obama for saying the same thing? I somehow doubt it. More likely they will pretend that video does not exist and continue their attacks.
  2. It shows just how fake these endless 'revelations' about Trump and his cabinet are. These are make believe accusations with zero merit or evidence. A politician met with a Russian Ambassador? ZOMG! Along with the 100 other people who attended the conference arranged by the Obama Administration itself...

Facts simply do not matter to these people. The DNC will tell you what the facts are, and God forbid you should question them or do any research at all...

Honest question: How can ALL THOSE Networks of 'professional journalists' NOT FIND a simple video from 2 years ago? Are the allergic to search engines? They have Teams of fact checkers the IAB Liberals tell us... but only the facts that support the meme are shown to the public.
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Male 54
Ben Carson may be an idiot, but someone who comes to live permanently in another country is an immigrant whether or not he or she was put in another country due to forced migration.  Unless there is another technical term for it that I'm unaware of.  In Obama's or Carson's case's, they were both bad choices of words.
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Male 37,042
starzokc Ben's speaking isn't 'gifted' by any means, but that's pretty normal for someone who isn't a professional politician, eh?
Yes, it's true: an immigrant is an immigrant if forced or voluntary. In the context of the speech? Ben's words make perfect sense. Could it have been clearer? Sure, but then again, Obama said the same thing too...

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Male 196
starzokc exactly. Slaves and Settlers were both migrants. Emigrant from Africa and Europe, and immigrant to America. By definition of migration. The question whether this migration was forced or a choice is irrelevant in terms of semantics. If you look at the US history, not a lot of people really migrated by choice anyway. In the 16th and 17th century, Pilgrims, Quackers and Irish fled religious persecution, while English also fled the English Civil War. This represented an initial migration of 425k, compared to 360k imported slaves and 160k "other" (German, Dutch, French, Swede, Spanish..)
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Male 37,042
m3dm3d And those slaves had the same dreams as the ones who came voluntarily: that their children would enjoy greater freedom and prosperity. Which is what both Obama and Carson CORRECTLY said. :-) 

Tons of Germanic people came to the USA between 1818 and 1914. Various anti-immigration laws (they think Trump is the first one? lolz!) prevented other groups, but most Germans could get in.

The biggest slave takers were the French. They bought from the English and Dutch as well as raiding and directly buying from Africans and Arabs themselves. The treatment of French slaves was nothing short of hell, and most of them died by being worked to death. In comparison? Most slaves brought to America lived long lives... not all of course, and probably not 'happy' lives :x
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Male 620
Yeah but Pence's emails are different tho guys. These things above are the same but Pence doing the exact same thing as Hilary is totally different.
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Male 429
marsii Oh, so you get that having a private server when told not to and using it for confidential things and then lying about it is totally different then setting up a private e-mail account for limited use while getting approval first and following all rules and regulations while doing so are totally different things now?
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Male 37,042
waldo863 Just ignore him he's a professional troll :-p

He will go on and on like that if you feed him. I thought he'd grown out of it? But no, he's as pathetic as ever.
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Male 190
marsii I'm glad to see that you finally get it.  Clinton's server was against the law and she lied about it.  Pence's sever was not illegal.
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Male 429
dkm458 Pence didn't even HAVE a server.  How is it that people can not understand the difference between a privately owned and operated server that is acting as an e-mail host and an account on a site.  You have a gmail or hotmail account?  That is NOT anywhere close to the same thing as a private server.  Here at work, we host our website and e-mail locally on our server.  When I log in to check the e-mails, they data is stored on my server.  When you have an account at AOL, gmail, hotmail or yahoo, the data is stored on their servers and you just view it.  Pence did not HAVE a server, so of course it was not illegal.  Neither was the account that he set up at AOL with prior authorization.
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Male 6,187
A broken clock is right twice a day.
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Male 37,042
normalfreak2 Why are you wrong all the time then?
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Male 1,141
Well done 5Cats
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Male 37,042
doiknowyou TY! But yeah, MelCervini brought the link here. It showed up later on some other sites I visit too. I give her full credit.

Isn't it simply amazing that all those networks, full of 'professional journalists' and 'fact checking teams' could not find this clip? It's only 2 years old, it isn't like Barack said this in 1999 or something... how did that come to pass, eh?
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Male 620
doiknowyou He probably read it somewhere else.

He definitely read it somewhere else. No original thought rattling around in there. 
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Male 190
marsii What a ridiculously stoopid comment.  He probably did read it somewhere else while you were expanding your horizons watching Dance Moms and Real Housewives or trying to find your bunghole using both hands, a map, and a mirror.
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Male 37,042
dkm458 I say right in my description (which FancyLad improved btw, he almost always makes it better!) that MelCervini provided the link. :-)
 
And yeah of course I 'read it somewhere else' eh? EVERYTHING on IAB comes from 'somewhere else' LMAO! So you are correct!

But marsII is a common troll, he probably didn't even read the description before attacking...
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Male 1,239
Holy shit.
5cats finally got one right.
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Male 620
oobaka Someone got it for him.
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Male 37,042
marsii Unlike every other post on IAB which is entirely original content...
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Male 37,042
oobaka Like the definition of the word "Stories" eh? I got that one correct also, if you'll recall...

In truth? I'm right far more often than I'm wrong, since I rarely spit out information I'm not confident in.

Or I'm just offering an opinion, which is mine to decide. :shrugs: Yet IAB liberals cannot accept any voice of dissent, they feel they must attack it!
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228
5cats What the fuck are you talking about? You're constantly on the attack - even up above you're attacking 'the MSM' like it's all one single conspiracy. You even pretend that here on IAB almost everyone is part of some big cabal to attack you, called 'iab liberals' (when there's quite a range of commentors here)

You're the poster boy for the 'can't accept any voice of dissent' angle.
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Male 37,042
barry9a Um, look at (almost) any thread, check the times of the comments. The ones who attack first are almost always the IAB Liberals, the same hate-filled crew of trolls.

If I speak back to them the way they've spoken to me? I'm attacking them? Or defending myself? Perhaps my speaking provokes them, but wait! My silence also provokes them since they don't wait for me to actually comment before attacking me by name for what they imagine I might say...

Reality > your limited viewpoint.

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228
5cats Sure, let's take this post. Earliest timestamp: the post itself. And there you are, bitching about the 'MSM' and the 'liberal left' - before anyone even has a chance to make their own comment.
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Male 37,042
barry9a bitching about the 'MSM' and the 'liberal left' 

And this counts as a "persona insult" in your mind? Me complaining about the MSM you take that personally? Well holy fuvk! What a fragile snowflake YOU are! How do you manage to even breath without collapsing in a pool of tears? 

The 'liberal-left' is a very broad term, it doesn't refer to any specific person. I say "IAB Liberals" if I mean specifically people here, but again that's not even close to a personal insult, it is not specific at all. 
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228
5cats Since you refuse to go to a psychiatrist for help, I suggest you buy a teddy bear to comfort you.
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Male 2,362
barry9a You couldn't be more correct about this.
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Male 620
barry9a the problem trying to argue with people who have a persecution complex is that it only makes it worse. Best not feed the troll. The problem is that Fancy has given him one big trough to feed from when he posts his pointless submissions. 
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