How Did Trump Get The Idea for His Executive Order To Ban The Seven? Rudy Explains...

Submitted by: bliznik 8 months ago in News & Politics


Major Rudy Giuliani dropped a bombshell on Fox News over the weekend when he admitted that he and Trump started with the premise, "America needs to ban all dangerous Muslims" and then looked for evidence to support that conclusion.

This is my major beef with the executive order. Even if we did away with the 14th Amendment due process considerations. Government representatives aren't supposed to start with a conclusion and then find facts to support their conclusion. Government representatives are supposed to look at all the evidence, and then come to a conclusion based upon the evidence. Here, they should have analyzed and looked at all dangers to American citizens, and then generated a policy that curtails those dangers irrespective of race or religion.

Keep America safe, for sure, but stop picking on brown people and then camouflage it by saying, "But I'm picking on them in order to keep you safe!!!"
There are 38 comments:
Male 316
Remember, Trump is a showman he knows how to work an audience very well. While everyone is screaming about this, right or wrong, watch what is happening without the fanfare. It is like a magician's misdirection.
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Male 7,927
5cats No they don't.  But let's ASSUME they do.  it's completely illogical.  Has no basis in any sort of factual evidence.  It's irrational, should we still do it because it makes us "feel good"?

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Male 40,756
normalfreak2 Oh fuck off already! You didn't even LOOK AT the link, so shut your shit-hole. You are willfully ignorant OR a bare-faced liar. But a troll either way.

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Male 7,927
5cats yes I did, it's ONE poll.   Hardly statistically relevant. What was your point?  That rasmuessen has one poll that agrees with your line of thought thus reinforces your belief?  I gave you a study of 40 years worth of actual terrorist events that happened.   You can't offer any argument to refute that data.
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Male 325
This executive order is just a magic trick. It actually does nothing (only 0.7% of the incoming visitors are from these countries) and protect us from nothing:
out of the 12 last Islamic terrorist attacks in the US (Columbus, NY/NJ, Orlando, Ohio, Philadelphia in 2016; San Bernardino, Chattanooga, Garland in 2015, Boston in 2013, Portland in 2010, Detroit and Killeen in 2009), the perpetrators were either (2 nationalities for San Bernardino so "split" count): 
  • native US citizens (69 deaths, 96.5 injured)
  • citizens of non-banned countries: Afghanistan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan (17 deaths, 316.5 injured)
  • citizens of banned countries: Somalia (11 injured)
So citizens of the banned countries represent 0% of the Islamist death toll in the US in the 2009-2017 period and 2.6% of the injured. 
The September 11 terrorists were coming from Saudi Arabia (15), UAE (2), Egypt (1) and Lebanon (1), none of these countries are on the list.
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Male 1,682
m3dm3d  well Osama ben Lauden is dead so that takes out Saudi Arabia (he was from Saudi Arabia and his 9/11 crew were chosen rom there because they are a allied country) and the others well you have to look at there affiliations and who is controlling  these people and many of these country's that are banned are giving material support to the terrorists.
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Male 7,927
m3dm3d ding ding ding
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Male 3,210
So far as I know, the 14th amendment protects American citizens, or foreign nationals ALREADY here. Not everyfreakingbody in the world.
Having said that, Trump's executive order is foolhardy.
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Male 1,743
captkangaroo Yup. I was just referring to the people in the airports who were indefinitely detained without access to lawyers until the ACLU forced DHS to allow them to talk to a lawyer and figure out their rights.
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Male 3,210
bliznik 
Good enough.
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Male 5,021
While there are some idiots who are mindlessly objecting to this Executive Order solely on the fact that it is Trump's, the majority of people who object to it are doing so because they know that this kind of in-your-face bigotry will aid in the terrorists recruitment efforts. This kind of bigotry will be used as lies for their recruiters to say, "See we were right. The West hates Muslims. They don't want you. Come, join us." And it's not just liberals who object. Here is a growing list of Republican's who have criticized the Executive Order. This is a dangerous precedent and I hope the ACLU will be successful in stoping it. And no, President Obama did not ban Iraqis for six months. He implemented stricter vetting rules which slowed the process down.
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Male 20,915
markust123 Informative.
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Male 40,756
And... so? Isn't that how EVERY DECISION EVER MADE is done?
Hey there's a problem, let's think of a solution.
Period, full stop, end of this bullshit fake news.
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Male 20,915
5cats And every major political stand has started with a showing of solidarity from the public -- women's right to vote marches, the boston tea party, etc. The majority is countering Trump's decision -- this shouldn't surprise anyone who can recall recent history.
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Male 40,756
fancylad And a HUUUGE majority of Americans want Terrorists kept OUT of America... so what's your point?
Are you claiming that the majority of Americans oppose keeping terrorists out? Or are you claiming these few professionally organized protests (which have been going on, non-stop, disregardless of actual issues, since Hillary lost) now represent the majority of Americans? Based on what?
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Male 20,915
5cats professionally organized? 

Please explain and show receipts. I hear all about profession, paid protests, but no proof. It's fake news created by Conservatives.
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Male 3,409
5cats i hate hot temps so lets blow up the sun
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Male 1,743
You forgot a step. Usually, it's

(1) Hey, there's a problem
(2) Let's review all information about the problem to come up with a solution
(3) Let's choose the best solution based on that information

But with Trump it's
(1) Hey, there's a problem
(2) I am convinced that Muslims must be the cause of the problem
(3) Let's review all information about how Muslims are connected with the problem to come up with a way to exclude as many Muslims as possible

That's why it's bigoted.
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Male 7,927
5cats People aren't arguing that.  I'm not, I'm arguing the merit of his actions.  Cato https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis released a study on terrorism.  1 in 3 billion to be struck by an immigrant or refugee.  The ban is unnecessarily provocative.  This does wonders for ISIS recruiting in turning this into a battle against the Islamic faith.  I'm all about working smart.  Trump's method is working hard.  No reason to do that. 
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Male 40,756
normalfreak2 Wrong post thread :-)
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Male 525
Has any one read the actual order trump signed? Trump did not pick the countries that got barred, they were already on a list that was created under Obama. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/ 
The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

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Male 20,915
dragon91 I believe Obama's order was on specific people who were red flagged. Trump's order, if I understand it, is a blanket bar with fuzzy details on any vetting system.
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Male 1,743
Yup. I read it. This has nothing to do with the text of the order. This has to do with the intentions of how and why the order was created.

From Giuliani's words, it seems like Trump wanted to ban all Muslims, but couldn't. So this was the next best thing that Giuliani could come up with that was the closest thing to a legal ban of all Muslims.

I think it's good to read the text and be interested in the implications of the text of the executive order. But it's also good to understand the procedural history behind why the order was created in the first place. This gives us a good indication of the likely orders that Trump will promulgate in the future in order to achieve his ultimate goal of banning all Muslims.
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Male 7,927
dragon91 "countries of concern" for what?  That's a pretty broad term that can be applied to anything.  Could it have been concern for nations that are possibly falling apart and not immigration/ refugee related?  I sincerely doubt the list was  in regards to immigration.
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Male 40,756
normalfreak2 He applied it to 7 countries, idiot, not to all of them. And in case you hadn't noticed? The USA and many other nations do the exact same thing already: TEMPORARY BANS for specific nations.
He named 7 with ongoing civil wars, ongoing terrorism, ongoing violence exported to neighbors and indeed around the world. Often using 'refugee status' to get terrorists to their targets.

You doubt it eh? Big fuvking deal. You doubt everything he does... what difference does that make, now?
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Male 7,927
5cats Why is Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt on these lists?  Note that NONE of the terrorist we've been attacked by were from the countries that were banned.  That's all I'm saying.
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Male 40,756
normalfreak2 Why not? Are you saying he didn't go far enough? Sheesh you just have nothing but hate, one song to scream, one dead horse to beat: hate!

Edit: Oh sorry, two methods: hate and 'change the subject'. But since you usually combine the two, you are pretty much a one-trick-pony-troll.
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Female 4,427
its. not. a. fucking. ban.  
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Male 1,733
melcervini 

then. what. the. fuck. is. it?
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Male 40,756
oobaka Temporary restriction on a VERY FEW people. 
Not 'all of Islam' and indeed it isn't even limited to Muslims, it's ALL people from those nations yes?
Facts, useful things eh?
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Male 1,733
5cats So why am I hearing about Muslims with green cards being denied entry? Why am I hearing about entire families being denied entry even after years of service with the American military? 
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Male 1,743
melcervini

"total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" - Donald Trump

"When he first announced it he said 'Muslim ban'" - Rudy Giuliani

How is that not a ban? Should we call it a Muslim shutdown instead?
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Male 7,927
melcervini What would you call it?
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Male 20,915
I agree, protect America, but this order felt rushed and with very little thought behind it, and the way it was done seems like it will only breed more violence against the people it's supposed to be protecting.
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Male 40,756
fancylad That's the lamest excuse in the books dude: it will make them mad and turn peace-loving civilians into terrorists? Really? If THIS is all it takes? That more than justifies the temporary restrictions and warrants much stronger, permanent actions. 
IF you are right. 
I say that's bullshit, the hundreds of millions of fanatics already hate you, me and every other Western Infidel. Hates us all to death in the name of Allah. Fact.
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Male 7,927
5cats No, that's called an Opinion.  Don't conflate the two.
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Male 1,733
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