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Why Women Need Feminism [Pic]

The day the St Johns Status of Women Council got angry.

It was Monday and everyone at the St. Johns Status of Women Council/Womens Centre was sad. The barrage of why I dont need feminism Tumblrs, articles and memes had left us all disheartened – a dark and invasive cloud curled around the office, sticking to everything we are and everything we stand for.

Then, we got righteously angry. After all, we are a feminist organization; one steeped in rich history in this city providing support, services and a safe place just for women for over 42 years.

Other feminist organizations meet here, collaborate, create and grow, sometimes under our leadership. We were the founding sisters of the rape crisis centre, the first transition house, created the first women only housing and the first outreach advocacy program for sex workers. The names of missing and murdered women in Newfoundland and Labrador hang on our walls reminding us every day just why we need feminism.

We needed action, and a voice to move past our sadness and get back to the essential feminist work we do every day because yes, we still need Feminism.

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Artist Tatyana Fazlalizadeh is tackling the important issue of street harassment with her art project entitled, Stop Telling Women To Smile. The project features portraits of women accompanied by a clever, biting phrase, such as the projects title phrase, in various metropolitan cities.

Tatyana explains to the Huffington Post that she began the project by discussing the various experiences of women she knew personally, which eventually went on to inspire the text underneath the portraits. Many of the lines serve as direct confrontation towards the harassers. This is especially great since a lot of women do not go out of their way to address street harassment, instead choosing to ignore it and go about their day.

For many women, street harassment has become apart of a disturbing daily routine. Though Stop Telling Women to Smile, which is currently undergoing a 26-day Kickstart campaign to raise $15,000, is currently limited to women, it may later expand to include the experiences of men and LGBTQ-identified individuals in the future. Tatyanas thought-provoking street art also opens the discussion for other issues such as domestic abuse, violence, sexual harassment and rape.

http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/stop-telling-women-to-smile

http://stoptellingwomentosmile.com



Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties.

Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditionsfor safety on the streetsfor child care, for social welfarefor rape crisis centers, womens refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, Oh, Im not a feminist, I ask, Why, whats your problem?

Canadian women”s centre workers respond to ignorant social media trend.

Credits: source
Profile photo of llaa

Submitted by: llaa

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Rating: 2.1
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Date: 08/07/15 10:15 AM

140 Responses to Why Women Need Feminism [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:24 am
    Link: Why Women Need Feminism - Canadian women`s centre workers respond to ignorant social media trend.
  2. Profile photo of oobaka
    oobaka Male 40-49
    975 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:23 am
    Hey. This is where I live.
  3. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:25 am
    We are a feminist, pro-choice and NONPARTISAN womens organization.
    LOL!
  4. Profile photo of fuad119
    fuad119 Male 18-29
    186 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:28 am
    are we still on this? seriously?
  5. Profile photo of Torq
    Torq Male 40-49
    358 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:32 am
    Look at photo #4 "I need Feminism because the government axed the Family Violence Intervention Court". the Violence Intervention court is available only to first or second time offenders in which the victim does not wish to press charges against the perpetrator. Is she saying she needs feminism so her man CAN hit her? you don`t need feminism for that.
  6. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:33 am
    A lot of these have nothing to do with the way society treats women, but more with their own personal issues, like pre-dialing 911 to walk home. Guys get attacked and mugged to.
  7. Profile photo of Torq
    Torq Male 40-49
    358 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:34 am
    I ditto OldOllie`s "LOL". They`re "non partisan" but ridicule a woman`s right to choose to stay at home and raise kids. I don`t think "nonpartisan" means what they think it means.
  8. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6704 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:35 am
    Oldollie

    Since you rush to comment on any post about "feminism" I`m curious as to your position.

    Do you:

    A. Think women are treated fairly and equally in the workplace and society in general.
    B. Think they aren`t and don`t need to be.
    C. Think they aren`t, need to be, but the "feminism" movement is going about it wrong.

    Just curious.
  9. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:38 am
    I agree that women should have equal rights, but some of this stuff is just ridiculous.

    First of all, how does the feminist movement stop a rapist, hiding in a dark alley, from raping you? If a guy is a rapist, no amount of signs are going to stop him.

    Secondly, when you wear tiny cloths that show everything, men are going to look. Same thing would happen if a man wore cloths like that. People are attracted to certain features. Show those feature off and you will get a response. Don`t want that response? Don`t accentuate those features. The issue isn`t that they don`t like people looking. The issue is that they only want men they are attracted to, looking. If an ugly guy looks, they are a pervert.
  10. Profile photo of whipplefunk
    whipplefunk Male 30-39
    1044 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:47 am
    I would`ve read all of those but the screen was menstruating
  11. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:47 am
    HolyGod:

    You probably didn`t notice, but you assumed feminism in your question to someone who is opposed to it. That doesn`t make sense. It`s like asking an environmentalist which way they want the environment polluted.

    I won`t speak for OldOllie, but my answer is "none of the options you`re offering". I suspect his would be the same.

    You probably think those options cover every possibility. That`s true only for those who exclude male people from consideration, i.e. feminists. There`s no option for "consideration should be based on need, not on sex", i.e. advocacy of sexual equality.
  12. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:47 am
    Misandry is not pretty.
  13. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14620 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:50 am
    If they were worth a damn, they wouldn`t need feminism.
  14. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14620 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:51 am
    Having said that I`d give fifty bucks for jade earrings.
  15. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:51 am
    I ditto OldOllie`s "LOL". They`re "non partisan" but ridicule a woman`s right to choose to stay at home and raise kids. I don`t think "nonpartisan" means what they think it means.

    That`s not the main thing they`re hypocritical about, though. OldOllie was laughing at their statement that they`re feminist (so partisan that they make up sides that don`t even exist), pro-choice (very partisan), women`s organisation (partisan) and nonpartisan (an obvious lie). He was laughing at the ludicrously blatant hypocrisy in that statement.
  16. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7552 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:02 am
    Nice post. But some of you respond, well, I could bloody weep. 2014 and you still don`t get it...
  17. Profile photo of g3n3r1k
    g3n3r1k Male 18-29
    250 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:04 am
    I don`t think rape is an opposite gender culture or that it just takes education and equality to not exist. You don`t need to be a feminist to promote against rape. And there is no stretch of imagination needed to see that harassment is not acceptable either. No sane "person" asks you to take it as compliment. Those "people" are not friendly. A man who does it is not an example of men. And while that man may look less of you, a lot of "people" do -- including friends sometimes.

    WTF does it even mean, "I need feminism because I am worried about how I look in this photo." I hate the hard search for examples to support a movement or hypothesis. The world is out to get them -- look at this court hearing.
  18. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6923 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:10 am
    patchouly,
    when you wear tiny cloths that show everything, men are going to look". Look? If the meat is uncovered cats are going to eat it, right?

    I need feminism because I have a daughter. And I can`t always be there to punch teeth in.
  19. Profile photo of AnTi90d
    AnTi90d Male 30-39
    124 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:24 am
    I need femenism because then I know which women need to be backhanded, raped and called a slut.
  20. Profile photo of chicagojay
    chicagojay Male 40-49
    2018 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:29 am
    I need feminism because I have a severe banana allergy?
  21. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32744 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:29 am
    @holygod: I believe @OldOllie and @Patchouly referred to their claim of "non-partisan" which is absolute bunkum. Canadian "Womyn`s Groups" are farther left than Americas!

    As demonstrated by these `freakshows` holding idiotic signs...
  22. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Oh, poor babies. Life is too hard, so blame the men.

    Everyone wants to play the victim. It`s a good excuse for being terrible at life.


  23. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6923 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:40 am
    HolyGod,

    I`ve noticed OldOllie is more of a drive-by commentr. He seldom engages with counter-arguments.

    patchouly,

    Yes. Many women dress in order to be attractive, but not necessarily to to you. Live with it.

    Angilion,

    You`re generally fairly rational, but on feminism you seem to get very convoluted and emotional.

    Draculya is just a louche whoremonger.







  24. Profile photo of Torq
    Torq Male 40-49
    358 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:43 am
    @ madduck - lol, men are men and will always be men. Even if women invent feminism and other things it won`t change the basic ball-driven male mentality. Instead of thinking we should change why not just accept us for what we are - neanderthals and proud of it.
  25. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:51 am
    Angilion,

    You`re generally fairly rational, but on feminism you seem to get very convoluted and emotional.

    Convoluted, no. I might well belabour the point, but it`s a straightforward point.

    Emotional, yes. I have a particular dislike of sexism and hypocrisy, so I have a particular dislike of feminism. Sexual equality is one of the few things I`m passionate about and feminism is a destructive, corrupting parasite on the whole concept of sexual equality that acts to ruin the whole thing by usurping it and using it against itself. It`s a drating ugly thing, like cancer.
  26. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:54 am
    lol, men are men and will always be men. Even if women invent feminism and other things it won`t change the basic ball-driven male mentality. Instead of thinking we should change why not just accept us for what we are - neanderthals and proud of it.

    Speak for yourself, you babbling fool. You don`t speak for me, so stop claiming you do. You don`t speak for anyone else, let alone several billion people.

    Oh, and learn something about Neanderthals because you`re ignorant of them too.

    Hmm...yes, I definitely am emotional about sexual equality.
  27. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6704 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:06 pm
    Angilion

    "Emotional, yes. I have a particular dislike of sexism and hypocrisy, so I have a particular dislike of feminism. Sexual equality is one of the few things I`m passionate about and feminism is a destructive, corrupting parasite on the whole concept of sexual equality that acts to ruin the whole thing by usurping it and using it against itself. It`s a drating ugly thing, like cancer."

    This is kind of like the white kid complaining that affirmative action is reverse racism.

    Yes it is. Yes it is wrong. Yes I hate that it exits and is necessary. However, there is no denying it has helped level the playing field over the past several decades.

    The party of oppression sometimes needs unfairly extra-equal rights and privileges to get to a point of equality.
  28. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:08 pm
    I admit I may not entirely understand feminism, being a man, but I thought it was more about "self-empowerment". Obviously a few may have more extreme views, but the same can certainly be said about any issue...

    I do find it interesting, that some respond to that extremism with extremism of their own...

    "I need femenism because then I know which women need to be backhanded, raped and called a slut."

    "As demonstrated by these `freakshows` holding idiotic signs..."

    "I would`ve read all of those but the screen was menstruating"

    "If they were worth a damn, they wouldn`t need feminism.
    Having said that I`d give fifty bucks for jade earrings."
  29. Profile photo of prichards114
    prichards114 Male 30-39
    121 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:11 pm
    The reason god gave women yeast infections is so they get to know whats its like to be around an annoying cu nt.
  30. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:13 pm
    I`m just goin to go with what Turdburglar said.
  31. Profile photo of diylobotomy
    diylobotomy Male 18-29
    1832 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:20 pm
    Some I agree with. Others are things that feminism can`t fix. "I`m worried about how I look" Feminism can`t help your insecurity. That`s a personal problem.
  32. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:28 pm
    I`m going to slap the face off of the next woman who says "All men are pigs" or"All men are dogs." to me.Then I`m going to take a dollar from her and give her 77 cents back.
  33. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:39 pm
    Look...I`m not suggesting that woman shouldn`t be treated properly. I have a Daughter and I teach her to be strong and independent. I frequently make fun of the way woman are photoshopped and tell her that natural beauty is FAR better. I tell her that she can change a car tire. That she can be a scientist or a doctor. I tell her that men will try to bring her down but she shouldn`t listen.

    What I don`t do is tell her that she is a victim. I don`t tell her that it`s okay to wear a skirt that shows her panties and then freak out if a guy comments on how how she is. I teach her to take responsibility for her actions.

    I get it. Men shouldn`t treat woman like sex objects. But lets be fair, woman have been doing it a lot lately too. The one`s that need to stop are the inappropriate ones. Those men will not stop because of a sign or a movement. If you want to stop them, work on setting up better laws.
  34. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:40 pm
    ***Edit****
    Better and more realistic laws. Not everything is a Sexual assault. Not every comment is sexual harassment.
  35. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6923 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 12:48 pm
    jaysingrimm

    Good point. And subsequent posts have just confirmed that.
  36. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7552 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm
    Okay- try this, until very recently I was for very any years the sole breadwinner for our family, I required rent benefit to top up my wages in order to have a roof. Every single penny earned by me- so why then, when I filled in every form, made every phone call and did the lot, did I need to have my partner give his permission for the council to speak to me about the claim- which they put in HIS name because he was male?? They even wrote to him about MY wages... because they said they had to put the claim in his name- he was the man and thats just how they did it...
  37. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2188 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 2:24 pm
    I don`t need feminism because men can`t be `taught not to rape`, but a .357 will stop him from raping me, I`m empowered enough to defend myself and my family.

    I don`t need feminism because I want equal treatment not special treatment.
  38. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    You`re stupid Mel. What they are trying to say is WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE TO CARRY A GUN TO PROTECT YOURSELF? The fact you`re a woman means you`re prey and you`re so accustomed to it now that you`re willing to accept this absurdity as normal. drat you. God. You don`t need feminism. You need to walk of a cliff.
  39. Profile photo of ArgusTuft
    ArgusTuft Male 50-59
    1211 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 2:34 pm
    @madduck. Oooo can I say it? Please? I want to, I really need to say it.

    It`s because... "conservative tools".

    AKA people who fear change.

    Ahhh, that feels so good.
  40. Profile photo of Johanvb
    Johanvb Male 40-49
    509 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 2:42 pm
    The `stop telling women to smile` is actually pretty funny. In Europe we had a small riot when a Turkish politician actually told women not to smile (because it would make them look sexy and distracted the men).

    Feminists all over Europe where reacting to this.

    So what is it? Stop telling women to smile or telling them not to smile? Make up your mind!
  41. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6153 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm
    Oh My Gawd! THEY`RE HOLDING SIGNS!!!

    `s gonna get real now.



    Seriously a `few` of these were valid points...but holding a sign will accomplish nothing.


    patchouly-Don`t want that response?
    They want the response, but just from the `cute` guys. (the rest of what you said makes sense).

    LordJim-I need feminism because I have a daughter. And I can`t always be there to punch teeth in.
    And you think some magic legislation is going to keep all the creeps away?

    @MelCervini...I like the way you think.

    SPrinkZ-The fact you`re a woman means you`re prey
    No, the fact that she is human means she`s prey to some people. (and don`t call her stupid, as she`s obviously got more brains tha
  42. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 3:22 pm
    I believe that one of the problems is talking about equality when the main problem is lack of equity.
  43. Profile photo of durdikkimeng
    durdikkimeng Male 50-59
    748 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 3:28 pm
    And their point is?
  44. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 3:56 pm
    @Mel
    "I don`t need feminism because men can`t be `taught not to rape`, but a .357 will stop him from raping me, I`m empowered enough to defend myself and my family."

    I`m glad you were able to empower yourself to take reasonable measures to protect yourself and your family. Unfortunately, not everyone (any Gender) is always able to do so...some need a little help...
  45. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 4:46 pm
    @madduck My mother has never had that problem, raised 4 kids pretty much by herself... and is receipt of various state handouts. We`re same country and she`s older than you.

    What council was it?

  46. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 4:48 pm
    I need feminism because feminists are soo much funner in the bedroom when you spank them for misbehaving ;) Tie them up and have my wicked way with them. It`s weird them and religious gurls best freaks in the bedroom.

    I would talk the same way about men but I am not bisexual unfortunately.
  47. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 4:52 pm
    A great hypocrisy which I`ve never met a self declared "feminist" accept. Is if you don`t want mens rights issues going under the "feminist equality banner" Why are you also against a men movement. I know the current Mens rights seems a bit crazy but for instance.

    Poor white boys perform worse in school then ethnic minority boys and girls. Girls and ethnic minority have rights groups who are pushing for funding and aid to help their identified groups. The white males do not.

    Same with testicular & prostate cancer, survival rates for breast cancer have been improving last 30 years. Survival rates for the mens disease has been falling. the NHS has a massive bias in favour of womens diseases in it`s funding.

    Yet I`ve always been demonised by pointing out Men should have a voice fo issues effecting men, if everyone else is entitled to a voice. (not power, just a voice like any other interest group to raise issues and solutions)
  48. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 5:22 pm
    Quick point.

    I think a lot of this anti feminism trend is stemming from the economic woes of a poor economic recovery many families are feeling.

    Many women these days are the sole breadwinners for their families. By hiring females because they are cheaper is causing a schism between men and women`s traditional roles. Men can`t find work but their wives can to the detriment of their family`s benefit, less income than a man`s past wages and the woman is not home as much as their mothers typical had in their households.

    If women were paid the same as men for the same job means that the better worker could be hired (not just the cheaper worker with the big tits: aka the glass ceiling).

    Women do need protection from men. I have worked with and met many battered women from shelters that escaped abusive relationships. The cultural norms many of these women were raised under made them fearful to leave. But once they had the support to leave they w
  49. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 5:24 pm
    ..were able to attain some semblances of bliss.
  50. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:01 pm
    @lla By hiring females because they are cheaper is causing a schism between men and women`s traditional roles.

    Show one advert? One statement? One story? Any form of proof to show a job having two rates of pay one for a woman and one for a man?

    The glass ceiling pay gap thing is contingent on many many factors. Show proof that a company is hirng women because they`re cheaper? They set a wage and send the advert out there and gett he best for that money man or women.

  51. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    How can some of you say you want equality while, in the same breath, say women need special protection/rules from men?

    Maybe we are not equal. Maybe men are simply better at certain things, and women at others. Equal as humans, but not equal capabilities.

    Also...
    For the women who like to call men pigs, and say we look at women as meat (which is a bit true in some cases), have you seen your fellow women? 1/3rd of the internet is cat videos, while another 1/3 are self obsessed women posting nearly nude pictures of themselves on facebook, twitter, instogram, etc.

    Maybe feminists should attack their own and fix those problems before condemning men and asking for special privileges while lying and calling it "equality".

    Nazi feminists don`t understand the word equality.

  52. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5433 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:10 pm
    " There`s no option for "consideration should be based on need, not on sex", i.e. advocacy of sexual equality."

    Well.. I`ll be damned, I agree with Angilion.
  53. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5433 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:18 pm
    I want equality too.

    My wife got 12 weeks off for work when we had our baby.

    I got chewed out by the SAME boss for asking for 12 weeks. I had to inform HER (my boss) that 12 weeks was federally mandated and was my RIGHT to take without fear of repercussion.
  54. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:28 pm
    LordJim-I need feminism because I have a daughter. And I can`t always be there to punch teeth in.

    The good news is that your daughter is more likely to be sexually abused by you than by a stranger. The bad news is that it is really hard to punch your own teeth in.
  55. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 6:33 pm
    Mr Pedo Bear,

    Having read many of your comments, I have begun to doubt that you are 70 years of age or older. Today when you made mention to your mother in a way that implied she is still living, I decided that your affected age is near impossible.
  56. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6704 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 7:48 pm
    elkingo

    "My wife got 12 weeks off for work when we had our baby. I got chewed out by the SAME boss for asking for 12 weeks."

    I like paternity leave as much as the next guy, but come on. They aren`t the same thing. Women need the time off to breastfeed, take care of the baby, recuperate from a difficult 9 months on their body and in a lot of cases recover from surgery.

    For us it is just a vacation.
  57. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6704 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 8:20 pm
    elkingo

    "was federally mandated"

    Not to mention doesn`t it seem a LITTLE hypocritical for you to constantly rail against the government and regulation and their encroachment on free market and then take advantage of it anyways? Like Crakr?
  58. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 9:41 pm
    @Pedo

    poo, did I say glass ceiling. I meant a mirrored ceiling, ala sexism. I always mix glass with mirror as a metaphor: I meant the sleazier big boys business club concept of mirrors on the ceiling to look down blouses.

    I`m thinking that women are more accepting to taking jobs with a lower pay more so than two scales. Women being relatively new to the workplace can be more willing to accept a lowered value payscale than would a man.

  59. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 9:42 pm
    @Pedo

    poo, did I say glass ceiling. I meant a mirrored ceiling, ala sexism. I always mix glass with mirror as a metaphor: I meant the sleazier big boys business club concept of mirrors on the ceiling to look down blouses.

    I`m thinking that women are more accepting to taking jobs with a lower pay more so than two differing gender-specific pay scales. Women being relatively new to the workplace can be more willing to accept a lowered value pay than would a man.

  60. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:00 pm
    I like paternity leave as much as the next guy, but come on. They aren`t the same thing. Women need the time off to breastfeed, take care of the baby, recuperate from a difficult 9 months on their body and in a lot of cases recover from surgery.

    For us it is just a vacation.

    There are fathers who take care of their babies. All of the fathers I know, actually (and they all looked like hammered poo at work because of that). Maybe it`s a vacation for you, but not all fathers are like that.

    Maternity and paternity leave are different, though. I think it would be appropriate to have two kinds of leave - a pregnancy/childbirth leave on medical grounds for parents who gave birth and a parental leave for the babycare aspect for all parents.
  61. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7552 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:02 pm
    Okay- if women who reckon they don;t need feminism actually meant it they would be silent and voteless at home- which they aren`t. NFDC Mrpedobear as it happens, drove me nuts as it was totally ridiculous- and actually caused more than a few problems over the years. Equal is equal- on an individual level in the west women are getting there- institutionally we still have a way to go. The recent poster suggesting to women that 60% of rapes are because they have been drinking... because obviously the incidence of rape in dry countries is much lower... why not picture a drunk boy being rapey rather than the drunk girl being raperd?
  62. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:12 pm
    The party of oppression sometimes needs unfairly extra-equal rights and privileges to get to a point of equality.

    Supporters of irrational prejudice and discrimination always have an excuse they use to rationalise it. Even the worst of them portray their favoured group as the victim and their enemy group(s) as the oppressor. It`s an effective tactic, so it`s used often. It might even seem rational to someone who sees humanity as two people (the "right" group as one person and the "wrong" group as one person) and judges them in the simplest possible terms without any regard for reality. But I`m not like that, thankfully. Not any more.

    If you want to promote sexism, then you`re making an excellent argument. The best way to promote irrational prejudice is with the same irrational prejudice, because you can be pretty sure that some people in your target group will react the same way.
  63. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 10:18 pm
    Okay- if women who reckon they don;t need feminism actually meant it they would be silent and voteless at home

    That`s sexual equality, not feminism. The dichotomy you`re using is a false one - the options aren`t just sexism or sexism.
  64. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:45 pm
    @Angillion
    You`re a smart guy but you`re failing to understand what feminism is and is not.

    fem·i·nism

    noun
    noun: feminism

    the advocacy of women`s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic EQUALITY to men.
  65. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 7, 2014 at 11:46 pm
    Also here`s a great link about unequal equality and the Swedish government`s maternity/paternity leave.

    Super Informative
  66. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 12:10 am
    @llaa I`m thinking that women are more accepting to taking jobs with a lower pay more so than two differing gender-specific pay scales


    That is usually going hand in hand with most woman are choosing jobs which are more flexible, and that flexibility usually comes with lower pay.

    So are you advocating state mandated pay? To protect people from themselves?

    Are you going to come out and say we need to protect migrants? I wonder what the pay gap is for migrant workers and natives...

    Ad your former comment about companies hiring woman over men because they`re cheaper. Congrats woman are getting the jobs over men then. You don`t think there will be tons of men applying for those jobs in these uncertain economic times.

    It`s just crazy people think their is anyone still pro-actively saying "hmm need to save money let`s get a woman"
  67. Profile photo of IRockYeah
    IRockYeah Male 40-49
    2619 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 2:48 am
    Oh f*ck off.
  68. Profile photo of skogsgud
    skogsgud Male 40-49
    94 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 3:46 am
    They need to shut up and go back to the kitchen.
  69. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5433 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 4:57 am
    HolyGod - whatever laws are in effect I follow them.

    Do I think things should change? Yes.
    Do I take advantage of things like welfare, hud, snap, and fmla -- hell no.

    I wanted 12 weeks UNPAID vacation to help my wife recover from a major surgery (c-section) and bond with my child. -- The federal government mandates that be given to all parents. My boss thought it was a joke for a man to ask to be off to bond with a child.
  70. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5433 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 4:59 am
    "There are fathers who take care of their babies. All of the fathers I know, actually (and they all looked like hammered poo at work because of that). Maybe it`s a vacation for you, but not all fathers are like that."

    Here I am agreeing with Angilion yet again. Lol..

    That is exactly what it was like for me. I stay very involved in every aspect of my little boy.
  71. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:20 am
    Regards the "73 women murdered by men known to them", aren`t most murder victims, male and female, murdered by someone known to them?
  72. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:34 am
    @LordJim

    "Yes. Many women dress in order to be attractive, but not necessarily to to you. Live with it."

    The plants grow their flowers for the bees, not for me. Am I a monster for looking at the roses in my front garden?

    I`m a gay guy, though, so I guess it`s different in the circles I swim in?
  73. Profile photo of alpensepp
    alpensepp Male 70 & Over
    1364 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:38 am
    ok.
  74. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:56 am
    @madduck, "why not picture a drunk boy being rapey rather than the drunk girl being raperd?"

    because 40% of rapists are female. I would say, why not a picture of a drunk girl being rapey? or a drunk boy being raperd. This is the problem I have with feminism. feminists will say "don`t blame girls for being drunk, blame boys for being rapey." Which is fine, for specific cases, but terribly sexist in general. Equalists will say "Don`t blame victims for being drunk, blame perpetrators for being rapey." Because they know we need to minimize gender differences if we want to make societal progress.
  75. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:59 am
    @musuko, indeed. This again is the difference between feminism and equalism. They want men to stop killing women. We want people to stop killing people.

    Also at the predialing 911 sign. That lady does not need feminism, she needs a therapist or a counselors. Extreme safety measures like predialing emergency services is a sign of a phobia. Which could have been caused by trauma, or it could have developed on it`s own. Either way, phobias can lead to heart attacks, and strokes. situational phobias such as this can also lead to broader more general phobia, which could negatively effect her quality of life.
  76. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5433 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 7:07 am
    HolyGod - I found this on facebook, and decided it fit perfectly and that I should share it with you:

    "You know what, it`s the craziest thing. Now that she`s had the baby, I just don`t care about her anymore. Her job is done. Why treat her like something of value? She had a 7lb baby ripped from a gaping wound in her stomach (C-section), and ever since she`s been home from the hospital, I`ve been having her spend long hours in the kitchen making me sandwiches."

    Source:
    7-stupidest-questions I`ve-heard about my baby
  77. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 7:10 am
    @kree

    "the predialing 911 sign"

    Yeah, I ignored that one as having nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with paranoia or the neighbourhood being dangerous (to everyone).
  78. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6153 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 7:11 am
    madduck-if women who reckon they don;t need feminism actually meant it they would be silent and voteless at home
    Sorry, but that is the most asanine leap of logic I`ve ever heard.

    llaa-the advocacy of women`s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic EQUALITY to men.
    Like so many things, the textbook definition does not, in any way, resemble the attitudes and stances of the people who label themselves with that term.
  79. Profile photo of Mikeman64
    Mikeman64 Male 40-49
    138 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 8:35 am
    Bunch of cry baby women. They just need to be useful
    and make their man a sandwich and stfu.
  80. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 9:20 am
    "A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women." (link)

    Obviously, there are extremists on both sides of most issues...take the last comment for example...

    That doesn`t mean they should all be painted with the same brush, any more than every Muslim labeled a terrorist...

    Where exactly is this "equality" that everyone is arguing for, from different perspectives?

    If you want to debate "feminism" itself, at least make arguments of some merit: "Some of the earlier forms of feminism have been criticized for taking into account only white, middle-class, educated perspectives."

    Don`t just keep offering the same OPINIONS.
  81. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 10:37 am
    Breastfeeding in public is not controversial, it`s just plain nasty... nobody wants to see that sh*it.
  82. Profile photo of maggierose78
    maggierose78 Female 18-29
    688 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 10:43 am
    HolyGod (yes I`m probably a day late and a dollar short), my cousin takes paternity leave when his wife has a baby (they are about to thave their third in a few weeks - their first boy). She is a Medical Doctor and a full partner in her office and he is a paramedic a couple of towns over. Basically, she is the Head of Household. It is not a vacation for him.

  83. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 11:15 am
    @Pedo

    "So are you advocating state mandated pay? To protect people from themselves?"

    No, I am not. But an education and knowing worker rights is beneficial in the longer run than a culture based on ignorance.

    Look at these comments. Most of the education boys have about feminism is school yard women jokes. There is a major deficit of knowledge of feminism in the USA.

    @Megrendel -

    "the textbook definition does not, in any way, resemble the attitudes and stances of the people who label themselves with that term."

    Submit something to the contrary. I`d be interested in knowing what the differences are...
  84. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am
    @Angillion
    You`re a smart guy but you`re failing to understand what feminism is and is not.

    I`m failing to agree with the spin doctoring that isn`t consistent either with itself or with reality.

    Claims that feminism is about sexual equality are either lies or delusions, simple as that. In all respects, it`s the opposite.

    Even the inaccurate definition of feminism you give as "proof" that feminism isn`t feminist is about one sex. It really should be obvious that sexual equality isn`t about one sex, but it isn`t because of how successful feminists have been in corrupting the very idea of sexual equality. Something for them to be proud of, I suppose, from their point of view. It`s certainly enabled them to promote sexism far more effectively than they would have been able to do if they had been honest.
  85. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 11:51 am
    Breastfeeding in public is not controversial, it`s just plain nasty... nobody wants to see that sh*it.

    I don`t care as long as she`s not being an arse about it (and then I care about her being an arse, not about her breastfeeding).

    Babies need feeding often and a baby screaming for FOOD NOW RIGHT NOW is a lot more of an issue for everyone nearby than someone breastfeeding in a reasonable manner.
  86. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 11:59 am
    I have a question for people, especially feminists.

    Please look at this table from the FBI:

    Expanded homicide data table 1

    Now imagine someone calling themself a whitist and who talks only about whites and who advocates rights for whites, etc, etc, looking at that table and talking about how over 5000 whites are murdered every year. Just that. Every time. Only ever the number of whites. The rest don`t matter to a whitist, of course, so why mention them?

    Would you see their racism?
  87. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm
    Regards the "73 women murdered by men known to them", aren`t most murder victims, male and female, murdered by someone known to them?

    Probably.

    That stat is a perfect example of feminism. A large majority of murder victims are male but of course from a feminist point of view they don`t matter because they`re not female so feminists ignore male victims entirely and abuse statistics to create propaganda implying that only women are victims, to promote fear and anger against men amongst women and most particularly to work against heterosexual relationships (the less connection between women and men, the easier it is to dehumanise men).

    The stat isn`t even true (in the USA, in ~40% of homicides the relationship between killer and victim is unrecorded or unknown).

    Over 75% of homicide victims are male and feminists still portray women as the only victims. That`s how thoroughly sexist they are.
  88. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 12:04 pm
    This just shows that for a start they have no idea of reality. They have only had one female PM because only one good candidate has got there. Margaret Thatcher did not get in her position because of feminism. Men are more at risk of violence than women.

    Modern feminism is not focussed on any of those things. It concentrates on hatred of men, on supporting women who do vile things from serious physical and sexual assaults, including murder, to destroying men`s lives with false rape accusations. Modern feminism paints women as victims, which is the opposite of the feminism decades ago when that group started out.
  89. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 12:12 pm
    @Angilion

    "Claims that feminism is about sexual equality are either lies or delusions, simple as that. In all respects, it`s the opposite."

    You haven`t provided evidence to support your opinion...a definition, an article....

    ".. but of course from a feminist point of view they don`t matter..."

    Again, you`re making conclusions based on opinions, not evidence...
  90. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    @jay

    case in point, some of these pictures. 75% of murder victims are male. Yet we need feminism because women are getting murder. 40% of sexual assaults happen to men, but we need feminism, because women are being assaulted. 90% of domestic abuse resources are allocated to women, but we need feminism because not everyone has equal access to human rights.

    Actually that last one isn`t so bad, It speaks only to equality, not gender.

    We teach people to lock doors, to keep an eye on valuables, and to avoid getting scammed. But we need feminism because teaching people how to potentially stay safe from rape is wrong. Which also ignores the fact that 40% of rape victims are men.
  91. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    @Kree: "75% of murder victims are male..."

    Irrelevant...much of that points to a need for better police/security/self defence awareness, but nobody is stopping you from forming a "Men`s Group" to support men`s rights. Nobody is stopping any of you from forming a movement that is made up of both men and women (which would of course be ideal) to tackle the issues, and replace the feminist movement.

    But what you essentially suggest is that we paint all feminists with the same brush, accuse them all of wanting "INequality", then take away their rights to "free speech", disband "feminist" organizations that help battered female victims, before a better gender neutral group is able to help ALL victims...

    Should we STOP helping female victims, because of inadequate help for male victims...?
  92. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    And none of you have shown any real evidence that ALL feminists are extremists, which is what all your conclusions are based off of...
  93. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 3:29 pm
    HG: "..doesn`t it seem a LITTLE hypocritical.. Like Crakr?"

    I wasn`t even involved in this thread and you have to pull me into it with your bullsh|t yet again?

    How f*cking devoid of thought do you have to be to keep repeating the same lame accusation, over and over and over again?

    Apparently you think insults are fun, apparently you enjoy it, apparently you`re like a kid with a magnifying glass that loves to kill ants.

    You know what, I don`t what to hear you whine, even once, when you get insulted again, because you deserve every damn insult hurled at you.

    At least elkingo didn`t take your troll bait, he`s smarter than that and I commend him for it.
  94. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 4:02 pm
    "I wasn`t even involved in this thread and you have to pull me into it with your bullsh|t yet again?"

    "At least elkingo didn`t take your troll bait, he`s smarter than that and I commend him for it."

    On that, I agree with @Crakr...
  95. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 4:18 pm
    "But what you suggest is that we paint all feminists with the same brush, accuse them all of wanting "INequality", then take away their rights to "free speech", disband "feminist" organizations that help battered female victims, before a better gender neutral group is able to help ALL victims."
    I am suggesting no such thing. I am simply stating that the deeds of the majority of the self identifying feminists I have been made aware of do not match up with their statements of equality. If you wish to give counter examples please feel free.
    The problem is not that these feminists promote a pro female agenda. The problem is that they are not honest with the public or themselves. Calling out for safer streets is good claiming the default state for men is rape is bad. Stating more women should get into STEM is good, saying men shouldn`t be teachers because of a pedophile risk is bad. Showing solidarity with a rape victim is good automatically a
  96. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 4:52 pm
    But what you essentially suggest is that we paint all feminists with the same brush, accuse them all of wanting "INequality", then take away their rights to "free speech", disband "feminist" organizations that help battered female victims, before a better gender neutral group is able to help ALL victims...

    Which parallel universe did you pull that out of? Nobody here has said that.

    There`s a lot of variation between feminists, but they`re all feminists. Not the same paint, but the same foundation. If they didn`t all have feminism in common, they wouldn`t all be feminists.

    While feminism dominates, there`s no hope for sexual equality. I don`t expect that to change anytime soon and I am under no illusion that I can do anything to change that.
  97. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:04 pm
    ou haven`t provided evidence to support your opinion...a definition, an article....

    You`re making the rather implausible claim that an ideology which exists solely to advocate for more for one sex only (which of course requires defining people by their sex and judging people on sexist stereotyping) regardless of circumstances and which embraces every degree of prejudice and discrimination against the "wrong" sex is about sexual equality.

    And you`re saying I`m not providing evidence to disprove your claim. Your claim is ludicrous. You need to provide evidence to support it (which is obviously impossible to do, since it is ridiculously wrong).

    My evidence is every feminist word and deed. Yours is a fictional definition that isn`t an accurate description. You could define a door as a bird but that wouldn`t make it fly.
  98. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:06 pm
    ".. but of course from a feminist point of view they don`t matter..."

    Again, you`re making conclusions based on opinions, not evidence...

    The evidence for that specific example is even more obvious - they are deliberately and completely ignored in all feminist speech, writing and political activism.
  99. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:07 pm
    "I am suggesting no such thing. I am simply stating that the deeds of the majority of the self identifying feminists I have been made aware of do not match up with their statements of equality."

    And where did you state this? Where did you provide evidence of such. I linked to the WIKI page on feminism and found a definition that contradicts your claims, but also a counter-point in the first few paragraphs...all you`ve done in state "crime statistics" and make vague connections to feminism...while insulting @LordJim along the way...
  100. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:09 pm
    "The evidence for that specific example is even more obvious - they are deliberately and completely ignored in all feminist speech, writing and political activism."

    To which you`ve provided no links or evidence to any such writings...
  101. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:11 pm
    "You`re making the rather implausible claim"

    Actually it`s a logical one given how little evidence you`ve presented, but that`s my whole point in making it...

    How does it feel to have someone assume your stance?
  102. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm
    And none of you have shown any real evidence that ALL feminists are extremists, which is what all your conclusions are based off of...

    Ah, the usual misdirection. If you had read anything I`d written, you would have noticed that I rarely refer to the extremists. I`m talking about what is common to all feminists, what is essential to feminism. Moderate, mainstream, extreme...they all share some common foundation and that`s what I`m talking about. I don`t talk much about the extremists because they don`t yet have enough power to be dangerous.

    But ignoring that and claiming it`s only about some extremists so it should be ignored is an effective tactic, so you should carry on using it. Truth doesn`t matter in politics unless it`s a convenient truth.

    If you disagree, feel free to provide evidence that anyone is talking only about feminists who want a final solution to the male problem (and yes, that is how far the extremists go).
  103. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 5:23 pm
    "I linked to the WIKI page on feminism and found a definition that contradicts your claims,"

    But that is my entire point. The definition does not fit the words and deeds. Again look at this very thread. St John`s women`s council a self professed feminist group, works tirelessly to provide support and housing to women in need. Where is the equality? They do not promote equality, they promote woman empowerment.
  104. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:01 pm
    @Angilion
    "I rarely refer to the extremists. I`m talking about what is common to all feminists"

    When have you even showed that you distinguish the difference? Where have you posted a link to "what is common to all feminists"?

    You did say earlier:

    "Speak for yourself, you babbling fool. You don`t speak for me, so stop claiming you do. You don`t speak for anyone else, let alone several billion people"

    Why should you speak for all feminists? You really don`t see the hypocrisy do you?
  105. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:07 pm
    Why should you speak for all feminists? You really don`t see the hypocrisy do you?

    No, because there isn`t any.

    I wrote that in reply to someone who was ascribing a position to all people who have the same sex.

    That is very different to someone ascribing the fundamental tenets of an ideology to all people who chose to follow that ideology.

    Do you understand the difference between being born with a certain biological characteristic and choosing to follow a certain ideology? Genuine question, since you support an ideology which is wholly dependent on the belief that a person`s sex defines who they are.
  106. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:08 pm
    @Kree

    "Again look at this very thread. St John`s women`s council a self professed feminist group, works tirelessly to provide support and housing to women in need. Where is the equality?"

    The equality is that you have the same right to start a "men`s group" or better yet, a group that supports the rights of all genders...

    Don`t blame feminists for trying to look after women in need, just because you haven`t started something better...

    Should we blame the Catholic Church for not holding Jewish services?
  107. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:10 pm
    You can continue to argue that feminism isn`t common to all feminists, but don`t expect a reply. I might reply again if I am feeling bored. I might not. If you haven`t read any feminist material, listened to any feminist speeches or looked at any feminist activism, then it`s quite amusing that you`re claiming it doesn`t exist because I haven`t provided a link to a website (which could, of course, be written by anyone and say anything).
  108. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:14 pm
    Should we blame the Catholic Church for not holding Jewish services?

    Should we say that the Catholic Church is entirely an organisation which exists solely for the purpose of advocating for religious equality and that it does not advocate for catholicism or practice catholicism?
  109. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:17 pm
    Also, there`s that biology/ideology thing again, although it`s a bit blurred this time as many people are put into catholicism before they can make a choice for themselves and therefore haven`t truly chosen to follow it.
  110. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:21 pm
    "Genuine question, since you support an ideology which is wholly dependent on the belief that a person`s sex defines who they are."

    Actually I am neither for or against "feminism"...I support their right to free speech, to assembly etc.

    But again, you haven`t cited any evidence that the "feminist ideology" is "wholly dependant on the belief that a persons sex defines who they are"

    You have made other suppositions:

    "Mr Pedo Bear,

    Having read many of your comments, I have begun to doubt that you are 70 years of age or older..."
  111. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:26 pm
    "Don`t blame feminists for trying to look after women in need, just because you haven`t started something better... "

    Point one, I don`t blame them for anything. I accuse them of lying about their basic purpose.

    Point two, equalism is a legitimate movement growing in numbers.

  112. Profile photo of flugnash
    flugnash Male 40-49
    18 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:33 pm
    There has only been 1 female govt leader, because u all can`t agree on anything. Example: FEMINISM!

    Men, as divided as they are can decide between the least evil.

    And any male candidate is the least evil compared to a female candidate.
  113. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:33 pm
    "...don`t expect a reply"

    That would probably be for the best...unless you want to address my concerns:

    "When have you even showed that you distinguish the difference? Where have you posted a link to "what is common to all feminists"?"
  114. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:41 pm
    "Point two, equalism is a legitimate movement growing in numbers"

    Excellent...are there groups you can join and support, and maybe eventually replace the desire for feminist groups? Instead of the reverse order?
  115. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    While I do commend the two of you for fighting for true equality, it`s important to note that the majority of people opposing feminism here have made comments like,

    "I need femenism because then I know which women need to be backhanded, raped and called a slut."

    "As demonstrated by these `freakshows` holding idiotic signs..."

    "I would`ve read all of those but the screen was menstruating"

    "If they were worth a damn, they wouldn`t need feminism.
    Having said that I`d give fifty bucks for jade earrings."

    But I`m not painting you all with the same brush...that would be wrong...
  116. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    I do not want to replace or remove feminist groups. I just wish for them to acknowledge that their primary purpose is not equality, but the promotion of women.

    Also it would be nice if some of them were nicer to men, but that is an individualistic thing not a group thing.
  117. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:56 pm
    I suspect Angilion had his heart broken, he`s coming from a dark place. Kinda hard to argue with him when he`s of that spectrum.

    Poor widdle guy.
  118. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 6:58 pm
    As I said before, in my experience the vast majority of feminists have not been for equality, but for female empowerment. This is not painting with the same brush, but a distillation of my experiences. Even this very thread is based upon one of these groups. Once again I would invite you to change my mind. Link me to any feminist propaganda that you believe to be for equality.

    As for your statement, once again, I am not against feminism. I just believe they are lying to themselves about their mission statement.
  119. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 7:51 pm
    I`ve already linked to the WIKI page, defined feminism (contrary to what you seem to believe it to be), and even made a counter-point against it, all from the first few paragraphs. It`s up to you to disprove the definitions provided...

    As I mentioned, I am neither for, nor against it. I support their right to free speech, assembly, etc.

    I think you are confusing WHAT feminists want, with the means in which SOME are trying to achieve it...
  120. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 8:00 pm
    No you see, in this thread we have had a total of 1 feminist group linked. The original one. Because this feminist group does not work towards equality, but female empowerment, we have 100% of the current sample being evidence for my statement.

    I do not need to disprove any further. It is now up to you to provide a single example of a feminist group that does not agree with my observation of them. 2 would be ideal, as it would mean the majority as as you say versus just 50%.
  121. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 8:51 pm
    Actually I am neither for or against "feminism"...I support their right to free speech, to assembly etc.

    So do I. Same as I do for other biological group advocacy ideologists. What I don`t support is calling that equality.

    But again, you haven`t cited any evidence that the "feminist ideology" is "wholly dependant on the belief that a persons sex defines who they are"

    I have, repeatedly. Would it help if I wrote it on a website and gave you a link to it? I haven`t given you a link to a Wiki article saying that water is wet, either. Does that mean it isn`t?

    You have made other suppositions:

    "Mr Pedo Bear,

    Having read many of your comments, I have begun to doubt that you are 70 years of age or older..."

    I didn`t write that. If I edit it into a page on Wikipedia and give you a link to it, will you believe me then?
  122. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 8:57 pm
    That would probably be for the best...unless you want to address my concerns:

    I`ve done so repeatedly, but you won`t accept it unless I edit it into a Wiki page and give you a link to it.

    Can you provide me with evidence that the Catholic church does not practice or advocate catholicism and is an organisation solely for the purpose of religious equality? And no, a Wiki page will not do. Or perhaps you`d prefer to not address that.
  123. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 8, 2014 at 9:04 pm
    But I`m not painting you all with the same brush...that would be wrong...

    Yes it would because you`re not refering to an ideology but the lack of it. All those who choose to follow an ideology must agree with the essential tenets of that ideology (or else they wouldn`t choose to follow it). All those who do not follow that ideology have nothing in common save not agreeing with it.

    In a similar way, it is reasonable to say that all Christians have faith in the existence of the Abrahamic god and that Jesus was the Messiah but it is not reasonable to say that all non-Christians are devil worshippers, atheists or indeed anything other than not Christians.

    You`re making out that two different things are the same.

    You`re also continuing with the "paint with the same brush" line even though you know it`s wrong.
  124. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:34 am
    @Kree
    You mean the post itself? The first pic reads, "I need feminism because EVERYONE deserves to be safe in their homes and on the streets"

    How does that prove that the definitions provided are inaccurate? You remember the link to the WIKI page I linked to? Why would I link to a feminist page? Thats probably not the first place I`d look for info, but you`re the one challenging my definition, saying its REALLY something else. I`ve challenged you to link to a page to disprove it. You could have done the sensible thing and find an "extremist" feminist page yourself (I`m sure they exist) for quotes or something but you didn`t. I would have then asked you to show it to be "the norm"...

    Instead, I will now ask that you stop wasting time, and find a page that we can BOTH agree on...
  125. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:41 am
    You have made other suppositions:

    @Kree: "Mr Pedo Bear, Having read many of your comments, I have begun to doubt that you are 70 years of age or older..."

    @Angi: "I didn`t write that."

    No, you didn`t. I apologize for not better directing my comments. I will try to do so moving forward. I will even amend and repost my past couple of comments...
  126. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:42 am
    @Angi: "...don`t expect a reply"

    That would probably be for the best...unless you want to address my concerns:

    When have you even shown that you distinguish the difference between individual feminists? Only after I first pointed it out? Where have you posted a link to show "what is common to all feminists"?

    @Angi: "Speak for yourself, you babbling fool. You don`t speak for me, so stop claiming you do. You don`t speak for anyone else, let alone several billion people"

    Why should you speak for all feminists?
  127. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 3:57 am
    We don`t even need to get to the picture
    "The Johns Status of Women Council actively promotes the social, economic and personal equality of women. We are a feminist, pro-choice and nonpartisan womens organization. Integral to that role is the operation of the Womens Centre, a non-profit charitable organization that offers support and services within a safe space to all women in the community. In 2011 The St Johns Status of Women Council opened Marguerites place, a supportive housing program for women in St Johns."

    Opening paragraph.
  128. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:31 pm
    @Kree
    Not sure what your point is, because you never really made one....

    I don`t see how wanting the "personal equality of women" contradicts the definition provided. There is no mention of fewer rights for men. Again I believe, you confuse WHAT they want with the means SOME are willing to use.

    But if you are suggesting that "St. John`s" is an "extremist" group, you have yet to truly prove it. Secondly, if and when you do, you still need to show that, that is "the norm" (Seeing as your following that line of arguing).

    Your other option is to find information from a source we both can agree on, that shows the definition is inaccurate.
  129. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm
    Seeing as you haven`t made an argument, I am forced to make a supposition as to what it is: You believe that because women are fighting for women`s rights, they are therefore fighting for a state of inequality. That assumes that there is a current state of equality which I`m not certain that there is or isn`t.

    Can you prove there is? I know in my lifetime, women have fought for and won the right to go "topless" where I live. Do they have that same right where you live? Are you certain they have nothing left to fight for? Are they not always entitled to an opinion as to the state of equality?

    You should also consider what happens IF you could prove that feminist groups are fighting for inequality....I would suggest that, that may cause them to be outlawed in many areas. I`m still not sure why you want to stop supporting the rights of women, because there isn`t adequate support for men..
  130. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:38 pm
    Please don`t be surprised if I don`t entertain any more non-arguments...
  131. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1012 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 12:46 pm
    60% of domestic violence occurs towards women. 90% of domestic violence shelters exclusively serve women. Opening another women`s shelter is not fighting for equality.
  132. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 3:26 pm
    More statistics that are "magical round numbers", with no references, links or citations..another non-argument...and in more ways than one...

    Were you also the one that pointed out that the majority of murder victims are men, without pointing out that the majority are also committed by men?

    Nobody is stopping you from advocating the rights of men...to raise awareness...so it`s no argument that we shouldn`t allow women to fight for rights too. Maybe there are more women`s shelters because more women are writing to government, instead of posting comments in a forum...if you`re suggesting we force "battered" women to share housing with men, or vice versa, I don`t even know where to start...

    Being that you ignored my question as to whether women can go topless where you live, I take it they can`t...

    Why don`t you stop being a hypocrite then, and actually argue for EVERYONE`s rights...
  133. Profile photo of iamatree
    iamatree Male 18-29
    551 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 6:42 pm
    I need feminism because I`m a tree.
  134. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 8:19 pm
    No way tree, you guys want too much CO2. We men need CO2 to breathe just as much as any tree, but the trees want more unequally!

    Can`t you see its trees that are the problem with feminism!

    A good tree is a chopped down tree.

    Get in the fireplace tree and roast my chestnuts!
  135. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2188 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 10:51 pm
    wow @SPrinkZ! Walk off a cliff? How progressive of you! LOL Why should I have to carry a gun? because no amount of signs and hashtags are going to stop a rapist from being a rapist. Do you lock your doors at night? why? just throw up a hashtag and `teach them not to be thieves ormurderer you in your sleep?" don`t you see the idiocy of that? Seriously? Its the same as expecting a retraining order to stop a person hell-bent on revenge.

    Trust me, dear... I am FAR from prey (I actually took a few minutes to lmfao at that one) I`m also wise enough to know that if someone wishes me harm, I better be able to defend myself and I choose a hollow-point at high velocity. (when I can pee 1800 feet per second, I`ll consider that as an optional rape-deterrent) If I walked around with a lil sign and expected that to stop a crime... THEN I would be stupid.
  136. Profile photo of liabach
    liabach Male 40-49
    3242 posts
    August 9, 2014 at 11:49 pm
    I dont get upset when they ask "Who hired the stripper" when i first show up at work. I just get straight to the tea-baggin.
  137. Profile photo of fantasoix
    fantasoix Male 40-49
    46 posts
    August 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
    What is feminism anyways? Is it the absurd notion that woman have equal rights?
  138. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1784 posts
    January 11, 2015 at 9:21 pm
    @Angi: "...don`t expect a reply"

    That would probably be for the best...unless you want to address my concerns:

    When have you even shown that you distinguish the difference between individual feminists? Where have you posted a link to show "what is common to all feminists"?

    @Angi: "Speak for yourself, you babbling fool. You don`t speak for me, so stop claiming you do. You don`t speak for anyone else, let alone several billion people"

    Why should you speak for feminists?
  139. Profile photo of ThunderCock
    ThunderCock Male 30-39
    3 posts
    August 7, 2015 at 11:29 am
    How many Feminists does it take to change a lightbulb? 2 one to change the bulb and one to suck my D***
  140. Profile photo of puppypaws98
    puppypaws98 Female 40-49
    8 posts
    August 7, 2015 at 9:08 pm
    Female here. I`m sorry, but whippin` a titty out and letting your kid latch on in the middle of Walmart is gross. I don`t want to see it. Put a blanket over yourself and all will be well. It`s not all about you. You have the right to feed your kid, but I have the right to not see your boob or your kid dangle.

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