Hypocrisy [Pic]

Submitted by: SweepOfDeath 1 year ago in

NO THANKS OBAMA!
There are 27 comments:
Male 38,457

There`s been some time now and the dust has settled.
Yep, Snowden is still a traitor.
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Male 2,399
Maybe if Kiriakou had been more careful not to disclose important classified details (names of CIA operatives?), like Blake, he may have been acquitted...

As for Bradley or Chelsea, I`m not entirely convinced somebody who took the opportunity once caught (turned in by a hacker) and "in the spotlight" to shift focus to a trans-gender issue (previously diagnosed with an identity disorder), was acting rationally the whole time...

As for Snowden, there was a time America felt differently about people who took off for Russia with government secrets...

Anyhow, I`m glad the "truth" is out...I just wish you had better "heroes"...although Israel could certainly use Mandella`s "PR guy"...
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Male 14,826
The problem is America. Big changes are needed, from the top to the bottom.
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Female 7,866
I`m glad you cleared the bit about swearing to uphold the constitution Listy- frightfully gald you didn`t lOL- or were would we be!! But- I suspect that had your moral compass been seriously pressured then you would have broken an oath- I think everyone does have a point where they realise enough is enough. you swore to uphold something based on what you were told- it that proved to be either untrue or subsequently corrupted then- you would I am sure look at the framework for that..
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Male 15,832
We can`t have 2 million people with the authority to declassify information and make it public anytime they they see fit to do so.
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Male 2,332
Yep. Though you can`t really blame it all on Obama. After all, the POTUS is really just a figurehead.
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Male 12,365
Mandela didn`t tolerate dissent either. Bear in mind that he was in jail not for political reasons but for terrorism. Genuine blowing things up and killing people terrorism. In a group that punished dissent from its members with death. A group he founded. So he isn`t a good example in this context, since he was far worse than Obama is.
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Male 239
Me too DavidXJ, you are so right. These people were railroaded.
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Male 530
Obama`s got something againt people with glasses?!
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Male 3,147
You know 5cats, I`ve thought about the Nuremburg defence of "i was only following orders" quite a bit since I came out...there were times when i did question myself against it.

The best I have come up with is that I`d have to say i was given an order and "on balance" I chose to carry it out. I think that is the best, honest answer I or anyone else could give in those circumstances. I did choose.

I know guys still in that are choosing every day... and I know for some it is tough, for others it isn`t. I can only speak for myself.

I know we`re going to disagree on this but personally I feel that Bush and Blair are war criminals... but that doesn`t mean I`d reveal stuff personally that showed the to be.

Most cases of stuff being denied to the public under `national security` reasons.. in my experience are more cases of `no....this stuff embarrasses us` - but i`m not a lawyer and it`s not my role to decide if i`m right or they are
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Male 37,675
Just as "I was following orders" is not an excuse for immoral action? So is an oath of non-disclosure when faced with similar immorality.

Some things are more important than paperwork, and vast crimes against humanity are NOT something that should be covered-up for all eternity. Exposing these crimes is the first step to stopping & resolving them.

It`s not even close! And it`s not just Obama.
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Male 3,147
semantics maybe... but the premise of a promise meaning something you don`t break is the same. You`re there because you`re capable and trusted. personally I wouldn`t want to think I`d let those that trusted me down... and I don`t mean the dratign politicans that run things... I mean my mates I worked with, the COs I worked for... and the moral goal I felt I was working toward achieving.

Obviously these guys felt different... and there are lots of folks that agree with what they did, there is no denying that. I just know I personally couldn`t reconcile it in my own head they way they did.

Also.. I do feel they`ve been treated harshly... like Chelsea Manning for instance. I think a 5yr sentence would have been the right thing to do... and none of that making her parading naked poo they made her do before the trial. Just treat them like any other alleged criminal in prison before the trial...otherwise you`re strengthening her argument of going against you in the fir
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Male 3,147
No Overtime I didn`t.

I took what in the UK is called an attestation... I still have the paperwork for it here in my shadow box ( the yank veterans will know what one of those is).

What us brits are taught in our GD training phase is that if you are given what you believe to be an unlawful order.. you carry that order out and then seek redress later.

however i was twice attached to US intel units for 6 months apiece... but didn`t have to go through all their paperwork or make a hands on heart speech about constitutions first. Obviously things are still comparmentalised though... it`s not like working with the US gave me access to all their secrets... just the ones pertaining to what they wanted me to do for them whilst working there... which was more tactical generic intel rather than the interception/analysis role i was initially trained for.


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Male 299
It`s technically not hypocrisy if he never said that to do such a thing was bad. ;)
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Male 97
Listypoos, before you promised not to tell anyone any secrets, you swore an oath to the Constitution and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Uniform Code of Military Justice says you are only required to obey lawful orders. You are also (if the law was actually followed) protected if you expose secrets that involve illegal acts.

So while you should be praised for keeping your lawful secrets, the people listed above should be considered heroes for blowing the whistle on the illegal ones.
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Male 3,147
(cont.) someone else`s watch.

Because of that oath I do think the sentiment behind the post isn`t comparing eggs with eggs.

Mandella wasn`t a government agent... or in a position to have obtained any intel legitimately. The others were, and it is up to their own moral compass how restful a sleep they get - and there have been some good outcomes from certainly snowden`s revelations....but he still did break a promise he took and whether the good out-weighed the bad outcomes... that wasn`t his decision to make.
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Male 3,147
yeah Madduck it is a tough one...obviously they felt they had to tell. However, there are ways and means of doing so...and if you get nowhere and you don`t like it, get out and let someone else carry the burden of doing the work.

Thankfully I was invalided out before I got to the point where I became disillusioned with what was going on, so it never became that much of a personal moral battle for my internal monologue. My area of expertise in intel is the area snowden comes from...but at the time most of our focus was on specific targets, not widespread civil interception... which I do now disagree with wholeheartedly - but again...me disagreeing with what the job became for those who followed me doesn`t negate the promise i personally made. I sleep easier at night knowing I stuck to my promise than I would knowing I was trusted and broke it.

That doesn`t stop me from publically voicing my opposition now to all the spying on civillians that is going on on someone
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Male 148
Screw the US govt for its hypocrisy. If we want the rule of law it starts with the lawmakers. When they flagrantly violate the rules they SWORE to uphold their its gloves off.
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Male 15,832
Violating your oath and breaking your word are not "dissent."
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Male 358
And by exposing those things it forced the government to stop doing them. They never listen to our phone calls or waterboard anyone. Right? Oh.
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Female 7,866
Tough one- and listy has a point, but I suspect all of the above suffered from a conflict- they swore to do one thing, then were asked to keep a secret which went against the first oath? Sometimes you have to tell... because if you don`t..
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Male 3,147
But Mandela didn`t once promise to not tell anyone any secrets... snowden et al did, and then broke that promise.

I was in intel in the military, my nephew still pesters me every now and again to tell him some juicy secrets and he always gets pissed off when i tell him no, i promised i wouldn`t tell anyone. Even though I`ve been out of that area for years, that doesn`t negate the promise i made.

so no...whilst I understand the personal motives these guys had and don`t think they should be punished as harshly as they have... I in no way agree with going back on that promise. if you don`t like what you`re asked to do...resign and go live on a farm and do your own thing.

On the other hand, people like Julian Assange has never made a committment to keeping government secrets so he has never made a promise to break - and so I think he`s under no moral obligation to not publish what is leaked to him.
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Male 1,497
Funny how you all think that the left and right wings aren`t controlled by a body.
That body is the rich... fat from the food fed by it`s wings.
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Male 1,106
Well, regardless of who is president when, I`m glad there are still people willing to risk their own freedom to expose government overreach. The day when people are no longer willing to sacrifice their own freedom in the cause of freedom, we`re doomed.
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Male 6,618
Unfortunately this isn`t something the Republican`s can taught over the President as they are all for eliminating our freedoms as well!
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Male 6,618
So true.
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Male 938
Link: Hypocrisy [Pic] [Rate Link] - NO THANKS OBAMA!
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