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Date: 08/12/15 11:30 AM

27 Responses to Hypocrisy [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    August 10, 2014 at 12:21 pm
    Link: Hypocrisy - NO THANKS OBAMA!
  2. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4081 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 11:51 am
    So true.
  3. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4081 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 11:52 am
    Unfortunately this isn`t something the Republican`s can taught over the President as they are all for eliminating our freedoms as well!
  4. Profile photo of DavidXJ
    DavidXJ Male 30-39
    1106 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:06 pm
    Well, regardless of who is president when, I`m glad there are still people willing to risk their own freedom to expose government overreach. The day when people are no longer willing to sacrifice their own freedom in the cause of freedom, we`re doomed.
  5. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:14 pm
    Funny how you all think that the left and right wings aren`t controlled by a body.
    That body is the rich... fat from the food fed by it`s wings.
  6. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:15 pm
    But Mandela didn`t once promise to not tell anyone any secrets... snowden et al did, and then broke that promise.

    I was in intel in the military, my nephew still pesters me every now and again to tell him some juicy secrets and he always gets pissed off when i tell him no, i promised i wouldn`t tell anyone. Even though I`ve been out of that area for years, that doesn`t negate the promise i made.

    so no...whilst I understand the personal motives these guys had and don`t think they should be punished as harshly as they have... I in no way agree with going back on that promise. if you don`t like what you`re asked to do...resign and go live on a farm and do your own thing.

    On the other hand, people like Julian Assange has never made a committment to keeping government secrets so he has never made a promise to break - and so I think he`s under no moral obligation to not publish what is leaked to him.
  7. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7607 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:27 pm
    Tough one- and listy has a point, but I suspect all of the above suffered from a conflict- they swore to do one thing, then were asked to keep a secret which went against the first oath? Sometimes you have to tell... because if you don`t..
  8. Profile photo of Torq
    Torq Male 40-49
    358 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:30 pm
    And by exposing those things it forced the government to stop doing them. They never listen to our phone calls or waterboard anyone. Right? Oh.
  9. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:39 pm
    Violating your oath and breaking your word are not "dissent."
  10. Profile photo of prichards114
    prichards114 Male 30-39
    122 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 12:52 pm
    Screw the US govt for its hypocrisy. If we want the rule of law it starts with the lawmakers. When they flagrantly violate the rules they SWORE to uphold their its gloves off.
  11. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:12 pm
    yeah Madduck it is a tough one...obviously they felt they had to tell. However, there are ways and means of doing so...and if you get nowhere and you don`t like it, get out and let someone else carry the burden of doing the work.

    Thankfully I was invalided out before I got to the point where I became disillusioned with what was going on, so it never became that much of a personal moral battle for my internal monologue. My area of expertise in intel is the area snowden comes from...but at the time most of our focus was on specific targets, not widespread civil interception... which I do now disagree with wholeheartedly - but disagreeing with what the job became for those who followed me doesn`t negate the promise i personally made. I sleep easier at night knowing I stuck to my promise than I would knowing I was trusted and broke it.

    That doesn`t stop me from publically voicing my opposition now to all the spying on civillians that is going on on someone
  12. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:17 pm
    (cont.) someone else`s watch.

    Because of that oath I do think the sentiment behind the post isn`t comparing eggs with eggs.

    Mandella wasn`t a government agent... or in a position to have obtained any intel legitimately. The others were, and it is up to their own moral compass how restful a sleep they get - and there have been some good outcomes from certainly snowden`s revelations....but he still did break a promise he took and whether the good out-weighed the bad outcomes... that wasn`t his decision to make.
  13. Profile photo of OverTime
    OverTime Male 40-49
    97 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:22 pm
    Listypoos, before you promised not to tell anyone any secrets, you swore an oath to the Constitution and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Uniform Code of Military Justice says you are only required to obey lawful orders. You are also (if the law was actually followed) protected if you expose secrets that involve illegal acts.

    So while you should be praised for keeping your lawful secrets, the people listed above should be considered heroes for blowing the whistle on the illegal ones.
  14. Profile photo of ZackDark
    ZackDark Male 18-29
    299 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm
    It`s technically not hypocrisy if he never said that to do such a thing was bad. ;)
  15. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:34 pm
    No Overtime I didn`t.

    I took what in the UK is called an attestation... I still have the paperwork for it here in my shadow box ( the yank veterans will know what one of those is).

    What us brits are taught in our GD training phase is that if you are given what you believe to be an unlawful order.. you carry that order out and then seek redress later.

    however i was twice attached to US intel units for 6 months apiece... but didn`t have to go through all their paperwork or make a hands on heart speech about constitutions first. Obviously things are still comparmentalised though... it`s not like working with the US gave me access to all their secrets... just the ones pertaining to what they wanted me to do for them whilst working there... which was more tactical generic intel rather than the interception/analysis role i was initially trained for.

  16. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:40 pm
    semantics maybe... but the premise of a promise meaning something you don`t break is the same. You`re there because you`re capable and trusted. personally I wouldn`t want to think I`d let those that trusted me down... and I don`t mean the dratign politicans that run things... I mean my mates I worked with, the COs I worked for... and the moral goal I felt I was working toward achieving.

    Obviously these guys felt different... and there are lots of folks that agree with what they did, there is no denying that. I just know I personally couldn`t reconcile it in my own head they way they did.

    Also.. I do feel they`ve been treated harshly... like Chelsea Manning for instance. I think a 5yr sentence would have been the right thing to do... and none of that making her parading naked poo they made her do before the trial. Just treat them like any other alleged criminal in prison before the trial...otherwise you`re strengthening her argument of going against you in the fir
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33124 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 1:47 pm
    Just as "I was following orders" is not an excuse for immoral action? So is an oath of non-disclosure when faced with similar immorality.

    Some things are more important than paperwork, and vast crimes against humanity are NOT something that should be covered-up for all eternity. Exposing these crimes is the first step to stopping & resolving them.

    It`s not even close! And it`s not just Obama.
  18. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 2:12 pm
    You know 5cats, I`ve thought about the Nuremburg defence of "i was only following orders" quite a bit since I came out...there were times when i did question myself against it.

    The best I have come up with is that I`d have to say i was given an order and "on balance" I chose to carry it out. I think that is the best, honest answer I or anyone else could give in those circumstances. I did choose.

    I know guys still in that are choosing every day... and I know for some it is tough, for others it isn`t. I can only speak for myself.

    I know we`re going to disagree on this but personally I feel that Bush and Blair are war criminals... but that doesn`t mean I`d reveal stuff personally that showed the to be.

    Most cases of stuff being denied to the public under `national security` reasons.. in my experience are more cases of `no....this stuff embarrasses us` - but i`m not a lawyer and it`s not my role to decide if i`m right or they are
  19. Profile photo of Johanvb
    Johanvb Male 40-49
    512 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 2:35 pm
    Obama`s got something againt people with glasses?!
  20. Profile photo of monkeyspankn
    monkeyspankn Male 60-69
    239 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 4:10 pm
    Me too DavidXJ, you are so right. These people were railroaded.
  21. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 7:56 pm
    Mandela didn`t tolerate dissent either. Bear in mind that he was in jail not for political reasons but for terrorism. Genuine blowing things up and killing people terrorism. In a group that punished dissent from its members with death. A group he founded. So he isn`t a good example in this context, since he was far worse than Obama is.
  22. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 9:43 pm
    Yep. Though you can`t really blame it all on Obama. After all, the POTUS is really just a figurehead.
  23. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    August 12, 2014 at 10:24 pm
    We can`t have 2 million people with the authority to declassify information and make it public anytime they they see fit to do so.
  24. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7607 posts
    August 13, 2014 at 12:35 am
    I`m glad you cleared the bit about swearing to uphold the constitution Listy- frightfully gald you didn`t lOL- or were would we be!! But- I suspect that had your moral compass been seriously pressured then you would have broken an oath- I think everyone does have a point where they realise enough is enough. you swore to uphold something based on what you were told- it that proved to be either untrue or subsequently corrupted then- you would I am sure look at the framework for that..
  25. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14653 posts
    August 13, 2014 at 1:40 am
    The problem is America. Big changes are needed, from the top to the bottom.
  26. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1875 posts
    August 14, 2014 at 10:50 am
    Maybe if Kiriakou had been more careful not to disclose important classified details (names of CIA operatives?), like Blake, he may have been acquitted...

    As for Bradley or Chelsea, I`m not entirely convinced somebody who took the opportunity once caught (turned in by a hacker) and "in the spotlight" to shift focus to a trans-gender issue (previously diagnosed with an identity disorder), was acting rationally the whole time...

    As for Snowden, there was a time America felt differently about people who took off for Russia with government secrets...

    Anyhow, I`m glad the "truth" is out...I just wish you had better "heroes"...although Israel could certainly use Mandella`s "PR guy"...
  27. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36842 posts
    August 12, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    There`s been some time now and the dust has settled.
    Yep, Snowden is still a traitor.

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