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Category: Misc
Date: 08/18/15 03:15 PM

38 Responses to God`s Plan [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 10:50 am
    Link: God`s Plan - Infinite wisdom at work.
  2. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 7:53 pm
    I LOL`d. :D
  3. Profile photo of Rodin
    Rodin Male 30-39
    758 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 8:18 pm
    Why is there a question beside "Hitler"?
  4. Profile photo of HQampersand
    HQampersand Male 18-29
    172 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 8:31 pm
    Lol, clever and silly.
  5. Profile photo of jbwhite
    jbwhite Male 18-29
    1292 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 8:41 pm
    lol
  6. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    It is possible to believe that there is a god who started everything, but doesn`t have a plan for everyone. Maybe he knew things would progress, and humanity would result.

    Maybe he started the world, sent it spinning around the sun, and just lets things happen. It would make more sense when you consider the sick babes, lying politicians who are successful, and all the good people who suffer and die every day.

    The only sure bet when it comes to god, beliefs, and religion is to realize that it is arrogant to assume you know anything for a fact. Faith is another word for arrogance. Being certain about the unknowable is the epitome of arrogance.



  7. Profile photo of PosisDas
    PosisDas Male 30-39
    52 posts
    August 18, 2014 at 10:07 pm
    @Rodin - I think that is the plan as written out before everything started.. back then he was trying to decide when/where/if to have Hitler be a thing. Apparently, he decided to release him to blunt Stalin at the mere loss of nearly 100,000,000 lives to combine those two at the same time period...
  8. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 12:18 am
    turdburglar: "It would make more sense when you consider..."

    It`s called free will, he`s left the choices up to us. But no matter the choices we make, he knows the outcome. I won`t even try to explain it, no one can fully. Just be sure of this, there are no random coincidences in life.
  9. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 3:00 am
    turdburglar: so you`re arrogant? I mean, since you know `the only sure bet`?
  10. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1945 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 5:58 am
    If that really is the case turdy, it cuts both ways.

  11. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2372 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 6:54 am
    Whenever the obvious and glaring inconsistencies and flaws in religious belief systems are pointed out, the faithful are quick to mutter `Free will!` and then scurry off, thinking they are victorious.

    You aren`t. Your belief system is silly. Unworthy of consideration by any rational being. Keep your Bronze Age gods -- most of us have no use at all for them.

  12. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 7:10 am
    1) "It`s called free will"
    2) "he knows the outcome"
    3) "no random coincidences in life."
    Statements 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive to statement 1.

    If the outcome is known then, the outcome exists. If the outcome exists then, the process is following a predetermined path.

    If events have been influenced and >>nothing<< is random then, there are no real choices.
    If events have been influenced making some events not random then, there are no uninfluenced choices so, no free will.
  13. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 8:41 am
    To paraphrase a recent post I saw: Arguing with the religious is like playing chess with a pigeon. They just crap on the board and then strut around like they won the argument.
  14. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 9:00 am
    All gods become obsolete when new ones are created.

  15. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 10:45 am
    CrakrJak: "Just be sure of this, there are no random coincidences in life."

    Why? Because you say so?

    No, sorry. The fact that you find it pleasant to imagine that everything happens for a reason because of some magic dude in the sky is no more compelling a reason to believe you than the lunatic who wants to believe that _aliens_ control everything for the same kind of comfort.

    Your poor understanding of statistics and personal insecurities regarding a need for everything to have an intelligent cause are not sufficient evidence for your beliefs.

    The simple fact is, even in a universe with no gods, coincidences WILL happen. That`s simply statistics. Don`t read too much into coincidence, you`re merely deluding yourself.
  16. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6895 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 10:57 am
    Crakr

    "It`s called free will, he`s left the choices up to us."

    Not EVERYTHING bad that happens can be explained away by free will.

    If someone rapes someone you can say that god didn`t do that, it was free will.

    When an earthquake or cancer kills someone though it is kind of hard to blame it on free will isn`t it?

    God INTENTIONALLY created earthquakes and cancer in your mind right? WTF? Just for kicks?

  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 11:20 am
    @Turdy: Your philosophy sounds highly "Deistic" eh?

    To the "nay sayers": God "allows" bad things to happen, because... IDK! For some weird reason. If bad things didn`t happen? How would we know when we have good things?

    Everything dies, that`s "part of the plan" = yes?
  18. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4044 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 2:47 pm
    Well stated Turdburglar
  19. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4044 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 2:50 pm
    If there is a god, none of the books we have know it. Everything we know about god has been influenced by men, thus nothing can be trusted as "his word". You have to question everything otherwise you will fall for anything.
  20. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 5:27 pm
    "God is omnipotent. Now, here`s a list of things God can`t do..."

    I`ll never understand how people can have that level of cognitive dissonance without the delusion utterly falling apart.

    Seriously guys, if a cop can apprehend someone for attempted burglary or whatever without overriding their free will, why isn`t your God capable of doing the same?

    And why did God so casually override people`s free will in the Bible (hardening the pharaoh`s heart, etc.), but somehow it`s something He won`t do today?

    The "free will" argument is BS either way you look at it.
  21. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 5:59 pm
    @normalfreak2: You`re sounding like a Deist too! There`s a lot more of us than people imagine, I think.

    @HiEv: If God `fixed` every imperfection then the Earth would be just like Heaven... kind of defeats the purpose of being kicked out of Eden, eh?

    But again, we simply cannot understand God or His Plan. It`s like asking a spider to understand Shakespeare...
  22. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    5cats -

    I`ve never had any problem with a god, it`s religion that brings problems.

    I`m not saying I believe in a god. I have no proof for or against, but religion can and has been proven wrong on so many accounts.

    "Faith" is another way of saying "I know the unknowable".
    Religion takes that one step farther. It uses faith as an excuse to influence, judge, and punish.

  23. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    Maybe I should be a bit more diplomatic here and point out that athiesm does the same thing by concluding that there is definitely NOT a god or gods.

    My beef is with the religion, and not necessarily the people who believe it. Pretending to know the unknowable is fine. It`s when it`s used as an excuse to set laws, society, and judge others by those standards.
  24. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    5cats -
    I don`t think I would call myself deist. I just looked up the definition. I am not settled (and never will be) about the existence of a god or gods.

    There is no proof for a god, but lack of proof doesn`t prove anything either.

    I think I`m Agnostic, but I`m not sure. (see what I did there?)
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    HG: Cancer and earthquakes are two different things and in many cases cancer is sometimes caused by the freewill of the person that has it. Too much tanning, smoking, alcohol, bad diet, bad work environment, etc.. Sometime it seems to happen without external factors, but then again it`s not well known exactly why some people get it and others don`t under the same circumstances.

    I`ve addressed earthquakes and other problems in earlier threads, that man allowed sin into the world and sin = death. So to blame God for the result of man`s sin is ridiculous.
  26. Profile photo of JDplaysFF
    JDplaysFF Male 30-39
    626 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm
    @crakr - Who created sin for us to let in? In the beginning, there was nothing, right? Hey, lets make an imperfect creature, then punish it for all eternity for being imperfect. Now THATS love.

    Oh wait, no, he created and then killed his kid to absolve us of that imperfection. The imperfection thats somehow OUR fault. But you know, only if you believe the hype.
  27. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6895 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 10:04 pm
    Crakr

    "I`ve addressed earthquakes and other problems in earlier threads, that man allowed sin into the world and sin = death. So to blame God for the result of man`s sin is ridiculous."

    So in your mind god created the world without shifting tectonic plates, but then someone ate a fruit and he decided to make earthquakes?

  28. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    August 19, 2014 at 11:28 pm
    HG: "...someone ate a fruit and he decided to make earthquakes?"

    Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit allowing sin an death into the world. The world was made perfect on the 6th day. There was no mention of earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes or other phenomena, by name, in the bible before then. Could they have happened during the first days? Possibly so, but when Adam and Eve were created everything was at peace. Chaos, evil, death and suffering are because of man`s sin, God did not create them.

    "lets make an imperfect creature, then punish it for all eternity for being imperfect."

    God made Adam and Eve perfect, their sin, and ours, make mankind and the world, imperfect.

    "..he created and then killed his kid.."

    He created Jesus for us, yes. But it was us that killed him not God.

    If you`re going to argue theology, get the story straight at the very least.
  29. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 6:08 am
    @CrakrJak

    "But no matter the choices we make, he knows the outcome."

    So he set up the forbidden fruit, knowing in advance that Eve would eat it and mankind would be doomed to misery and suffering?

    He set up a rigged game. What a dick. Your god`s a sadist.

  30. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 6:08 am
    If events have been influenced making some events not random then, there are no uninfluenced choices so, no free will.

    This has always perplexed me. How do you build a workable epistemology of the exterior world if it includes miracles, answered prayer and suspension of physical laws by a deity? These seem to alter reality in a way as to make it inconsistent. Each miracle breaks the causal chain of events the scientific method relies on to decipher where we lack knowledge. One of the first basal assumptions required to step forward from cogito ergo sum is that the exterior IS consistent.

    How can you even begin to evaluate truth claims in such a framework? What makes the bible more reasonable than a claim that unicorns fart and produce rainbows? In a world where all things are equally plausible, how do you determine what is probable?
  31. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 6:09 am
    If I built a robot that had free will, but I had run simulations that proved with 100% accuracy that the robot would choose to go on a killing spree...and then I let it loose anyway...

    ...what a prick I would be to blame the robot and not myself for the subsequent murders.
  32. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 6:16 am
    @5Cats

    "we simply cannot understand God or His Plan"

    Ah, the old get out clause. Does it comfort you to know that daddy knows best and you don`t need to worry your pretty head, just obey what he says?

    I don`t think you need religion. I think you need a dominatrix. I can give you a few links if you need em. :P
  33. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 9:23 am
    Musuko: "So he set up the forbidden fruit, knowing in advance that Eve would eat it..."

    God gave them one rule, one rule and they violated it. The fruit wasn`t evil, the tree wasn`t evil. What was evil was the deceit and lies they both told after they ate it.

    Adam and Eve were not ready for the knowledge, they didn`t have the wisdom necessary to handle it. Wisdom comes from experience and they simply did not have enough. But after they both lied to God, he couldn`t trust them like before.

    God didn`t doom them to misery and suffering, they did it themselves. Sin separates us from God, that`s why Jesus came. Jesus took the full burden of sin upon himself, he paid our sin debts for all time to save us from eternal misery and suffering.

    You`re not an atheist, you`re an anti-theist and you hate God for some reason. But you`re pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction.
  34. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 10:45 am
    @CrakrJak

    "God gave them one rule, one rule and they violated it."

    And you said: "But no matter the choices we make, he knows the outcome."

    If your god set that rule and knew in advance that man would break it, suffering the consequences, how is that NOT setting us up to fail?

    "you`re an anti-theist and you hate God for some reason."

    I also don`t believe my socks are made of pancakes. So...do I hate pancake-socks too?
  35. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 11:02 am
    5Cats: "If God `fixed` every imperfection then the Earth would be just like Heaven... kind of defeats the purpose of being kicked out of Eden, eh?"

    There was no Eden. That`s fiction. Humans and every other creature on Earth evolved.

    Furthermore, how is it "fair" to punish people who didn`t commit the crime?

    And I don`t need Him to "fix" _everything_, but keeping His priests from raping innocent children would be a good start.

    5Cats: "But again, we simply cannot understand God or His Plan."

    LOL. Yet another thing "omnipotent" God can`t do: make any sense.

    5Cats: "It`s like asking a spider to understand Shakespeare..."

    No it`s not, spiders don`t have language. Is your God too dumb to explain things?
  36. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 11:15 am
    turdburglar: "athiesm does the same thing by concluding that there is definitely NOT a god or gods."

    No it doesn`t. "Atheism" simply means not having the belief that gods exist. It does NOT mean you affirm their nonexistence.

    CrakrJak: "man allowed sin into the world and sin = death"

    No. If that were true, then what was the point of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden? It granted eternal life (Genesis 3:22). That would have been meaningless if they were already immortal, but God supposedly told them not to eat of it because They didn`t want man to become immortal.

    Your own fairytale betrays your argument.

    The "sin = death" thing is PR spin to avoid the fact that God lied about them dying if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Which also highlights the fact that God is supposedly punishing everyone ever because of two people who didn`t understand good or evil.
  37. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 20, 2014 at 11:32 am
    CrakrJak: "Chaos, evil, death and suffering are because of man`s sin, God did not create them."

    You`re only right here because God is a myth. But within your mythology, God most certainly DID create them. God curses the ground in Genesis 3:17. Heck, Isaiah 47:7 and Job 2:10 outright say that God creates disasters/evil (depending on translation) and that you should accept that bad things come from God too.

    CrakrJak: "He created Jesus for us, yes. But it was us that killed him not God."

    He supposedly created Jesus for the _express_ _purpose_ of having him killed. God demanded a bloody human sacrifice in order to forgive the descendants of sinners for their ancestor`s sins, because apparently an "omnipotent" God can`t forgive without a human sacrifice loophole in His own laws.

    Better?

    Your God`s only saving grace is that He`s fictional.
  38. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 23, 2014 at 8:53 am
    ...Oh, and by "right" I only meant the "God did not create them" part. Man`s "sin" (singular) is a myth. Man`s sins (unethical behavior) contributes to the other things you listed, but certainly is not the sole cause of them, as chaos, death, and suffering all predate the existence of humans.

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