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Category: Tech
Date: 07/29/15 03:00 PM

40 Responses to Feminist Logic [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    July 28, 2014 at 7:25 pm
    Link: Feminist Logic - Anita Sarkeesian, pretending to love games since she could make money on hating on them.
  2. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 3:30 pm
    Because she doesn`t create video games. So she lacks the skill to be able to do it. She isn`t a game producer or venture capitalist so lacks the money, and her effort if being put in to campaign against male dominated games???? Why is this illogical.

    Only thing you can criticise her is not starting a kickstarter or Steam Greenlight to get money to hire game developers to make one.

    But just because you can`t do it doesn`t mean you can`t have an opinion about it...

    How many flame arguments happen here over stuff many have no proper know how or influence to change? Wow much illogical arguing.
  3. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6934 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 3:31 pm
    What are you talking about?
  4. Profile photo of g3n3r1k
    g3n3r1k Male 18-29
    250 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 3:33 pm
    i would agree with her opinion if anyone said it. but i dont think lack of female characters has anything to do with favoritism or males being sexist (any feminist complaint)
  5. Profile photo of diylobotomy
    diylobotomy Male 18-29
    1832 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    Mr Pedo Bear: Voice of reason.

    Now that just sounds odd.
  6. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 4:29 pm
    Mr Pedo Bear is right about the response being unreasonable. Even if she was a games developer (and it`s very unlikely that she is), it takes a lot more than one person to make a major game nowadays.

    But she`s wrong too. There are female characters in games - most games allow players a choice in their avatar and most games have female NPCs.

    Mainstream games companies sell to the majority of their market because they have to in order sell enough copies to make a profit. They also do so conservatively for the same reason film studios do - the costs of making the product are so high that they strongly discourage anything else. You have to make what you *know* will sell.

    She`s a feminist, so she wouldn`t be happy anyway. There`s no point making games to please her because there`s no such thing. Even a game without any male characters at all wouldn`t do that.
  7. Profile photo of iamatree
    iamatree Male 18-29
    551 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 6:22 pm
    I like that they totally ignore that there was an AC that starred a woman already.

    anyways, anyone who gets upset about it is pretty irrational. they`re not making a big deal about how the lord of the rings didn`t have a major female role. it`s just stupid.
  8. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 6:25 pm
    I`m not sure who has more mental issues; the feminists, or the feminist-haters.
  9. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32785 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 6:33 pm
    A local lesbian mother wasn`t happy with the quality of children`s books with gay parents in them, too preachy.
    So she wrote one, now it`s a series of 3-4, it`s about the child`s adventures, not the gayness of the parents.

    THAT is how you get things to change. :-)
    (She was a writer already, but never of children`s books).
  10. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 8:51 pm
    Mr Pedo Bear is absolutely correct. On the other hand, nobody has to give a loose dry f*** about whatever it is she`s whining about.
  11. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 9:31 pm
    That`s the thing with Feminists. They can`t be made to be happy, as its not in their nature.
  12. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14620 posts
    July 29, 2014 at 9:50 pm
    I`d respect the words of a successful feminist over one who has never amounted to anything of note.
  13. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 2:30 am
    No. Keep your political correctness out of my games.
  14. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 2:49 am
    Part of how you get things to change, too, is to point out disparity. If, say, even 20% of gamers are female and they would like to see a female lead in a game, and would buy it, it might be profitable for a company, might not. Or, perhaps a game with a choice of male or female? I`d say that "Last of Us" starts to head toward striking a good balance. But it`s the same in movies, too. Women make up more than 50% of the viewers, but play less than 20% of the leads. Why? Well, people keep paying for the games/movies that have mostly male leads.

    So, this girl says something about it. She doesn`t have the power to change it completely by herself, but she says stuff about it. What`s the big deal? Is your manhood so threatened that you can`t take someone asking for change? Damn.
  15. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 3:11 am
    Shoehorning in poorly written, poorly developed characters just because there was a vocal minority asking for it to be included? No thanks. Experience has taught me that trying to please everyone only succeeds at pleasing no one.

    I don`t blame developers for catering to their main audience which is still predominantly male.
    That`s something this woman`s just going to have to deal with until women are the majority of gamers.
  16. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 4:34 am
    Mr. Pedo Bear Logic: It`s okay for her to voice her opinion about games; but it`s not okay for others to voice their opinions about her, or her opinion.

    Funny, I always thought that once you voice your opinion, you open yourself up to debate about it... that`s how discussions begin.

    ... just my opinion.
  17. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 5:18 am
    I`ll be honest, I don`t buy may games with female protagonists. I tend to play violent games where the protagonist gets stabbed, shot, beaten, pretty much tortured, and violence against women makes me uncomfortable.
  18. Profile photo of unholydonut
    unholydonut Male 30-39
    345 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 5:39 am
    Laura Croft. Nuff said.
  19. Profile photo of beternal
    beternal Male 18-29
    2589 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 6:02 am
    So I would imagine most men would want a strong male character as the puny guys won`t be able to carry all the gear (makes sense) - so there we have our male character.

    What do we do for the female characters? - if we have a big-breasted hottie many will complain that she portrays an unrealistic impression of femininity. On the other hand, if we make her a `plain Jane` like Rosie O`Donnell, will ANYONE (a) believe she is capable of that sort of exertion, (b) WANT to play her character (apart from trying to purposefully get her shot at), or (c) be happy that the female character is ugly while all the males are Adonises?
  20. Profile photo of Jerm_Leather
    Jerm_Leather Male 18-29
    897 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 7:43 am
    Most of the modern games I`ve played offer the option to play as a female lead. Personally, the gender of the character I am playing as never matters much to me unless it is somehow integral to the plot. I assume that gameplay is more important to most gamers than genders. If a franchise with reoccurring characters already has a male lead character then you can`t be mad that they aren`t scrapping him and putting in a female instead. Furthermore, a similar argument to the one she is making could be made about nearly any product that is marketed to a certain demographic. Makeup, stockings, dresses, etc is used by transgendered people, cross dressing men and drag queens, yet you never see a makeup ad that shows anyone other than a super hot genetically female model or actress using their products. Why? Because the primary demographic is genetic females. As others said it`s not intentional bigotry, just those companies playing to their assumed demographic.
  21. Profile photo of diylobotomy
    diylobotomy Male 18-29
    1832 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 8:53 am
    Girls have Lara Croft. What else do they need? She`s more badass than 90% of male video game leads.
  22. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 12:52 pm
    And Samus Aran!
  23. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 6:56 pm
    So I would imagine most men would want a strong male character as the puny guys won`t be able to carry all the gear (makes sense)

    If you consider the amount of gear that many video game characters carry, it doesn`t make sense with anyone unless they`re 50` tall :)

    I`ve playing Skyrim at the moment and often carry several sets of torso armour, a few 2H weapons that are about 5 feet long, dozens of bottles, tens of thousands of coins and a sackful of plants, plus the full set of armour, 2H battleaxe and longbow that I use. And then I go swimming with all of it.

    Come to think of it, I`ve forgotten the sex of the character I`m playing because I`m playing an idealised version of myself as a hero and I pick the sex at random when I do that.
  24. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 8:19 pm
    Angilion: "But she`s wrong too. There are female characters in games - most games allow players a choice in their avatar and most games have female NPCs."

    Actually, her tweet written specifically in response to Ubisoft, who literally claimed exactly that, that they didn`t have any female characters in "Assassin`s Creed: Unity" because it would have been too expensive.

    Even when game authors /do/ give you the option to pick a female character, it often ends up like this:



    Any wonder why some females are annoyed at this disparity?

    Yup, feminist logic remains sound logic.
  25. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 10:18 pm
    Actually, her tweet written specifically in response to Ubisoft, who literally claimed exactly that, that they didn`t have any female characters in "Assassin`s Creed: Unity" because it would have been too expensive.

    No they didn`t.

    Did you think I wouldn`t check? I know that we`re all conditioned to accept any feminist statement as absolute truth and not even think about checking it, but I beat that conditioning years ago. Not that it matters, since most people still follow it so it`s still politically useful.

    What they actually said was that they re-used the playable character of that particular game in the story for the multiplayer. Making another one would have cost twice as much and taken longer.

    They probably should have done it anyway, but it`s not as you described it as being.

    Can you play, for example, a Chinese character in that game? Etc.
  26. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 10:28 pm
    Even when game authors /do/ give you the option to pick a female character, it often ends up like this:



    Any wonder why some females are annoyed at this disparity?

    I`m annoyed about that disparity. Has my sex suddenly changed and I didn`t notice it happening? No, it doesn`t appear to have done so.

    Also - "females"? I know that you`re a feminist and therefore think that everyone is defined by their sex, but...well, I`ve answered my own question there. It`s such an ugly and irrational way of thinking that it doesn`t naturally occur to me.

    Yup, feminist logic remains sound logic.

    "feminist logic" is an oxymoron. Sexism can`t be logical.
  27. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 30, 2014 at 10:35 pm
    It`s not all bad, though. Here`s an example from what`s probably the best known RPG - Skyrim. This is the best armour in the game.

    Daedric Armour in Skyrim
  28. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6158 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 7:45 am
    HiEv-because it would have been too expensive.
    Well, I`m sure the extra physics programming involved with females would be more expensive:

  29. Profile photo of Howler81
    Howler81 Male 30-39
    323 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 10:56 am
    Angilion, please recheck your facts. There are ( so far) no female characters in the multiplayer - reused or otherwise. They have since tried to emphasize that there are female character in the main storyline, but so far, no multiplayer (for the reasons you mention). So yes, they are saying including female players in multiplayer would take too much work/time/money.
  30. Profile photo of Howler81
    Howler81 Male 30-39
    323 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 11:07 am
    (And note how I don`t ascribe anyone`s misunderstanding Ubisoft`s announcements to them being preconditioned to disbelieve anything a feminist says or brag about how I shrugged off such conditioning, because that would come off as incredibly dickish and take on an air of undeserved superiority.)

    Anyway, I do think it`s a shame that they`ve not taken the time to include female characters in the multiplayer. They have made some really cool female characters in the past. Seems like a bizarre decision.
  31. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 4:24 pm
    Angilion: "Also - `females`? I know that you`re a feminist and therefore think that everyone is defined by their sex, but...well, I`ve answered my own question there. It`s such an ugly and irrational way of thinking that it doesn`t naturally occur to me."

    You? Rational? LOL. Your argument is entirely based upon redefining the word "feminism" as an antonym of its actual meaning.

    And no, as I`ve explained to you before I DO NOT "think that everyone is defined by their sex", I`m just not blind to the fact that there happen to be different sexes and that they`re treated unequally in an unfair way.

    Recognizing that fact DOES NOT mean that I think it`s the "defining characteristic" of anyone.

    You refer to people as "he" and "she", does that mean that _YOU_ think that sex is the defining characteristic of those people?!? `Cause that`s the stupid core of what your argument boils down to.
  32. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 4:32 pm
    Angilion: "No they didn`t."

    Yes they did.

    The Register - "Women are too expensive to draw and code - Ubisoft"

    HiEv: "Any wonder why some females are annoyed at this disparity?"

    Angilion: "I`m annoyed about that disparity. Has my sex suddenly changed and I didn`t notice it happening?"

    (facepalm)

    I never said that ONLY females get annoyed at that. Just because I point out that one group gets annoyed by something DOES NOT mean that no other groups can possibly also be annoyed by it.

    You have some serious balls to lecture ME about being irrational with idiocy like that drooling out of your skull and onto your keyboard.
  33. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 6:00 pm
    Your argument is entirely based upon redefining the word "feminism" as an antonym of its actual meaning.

    I would say the same about you. The difference is that my description of feminism is accurate and yours is PR spin doctoring that bears no resemblence to anything that happens in reality.
  34. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 6:11 pm
    Anyway, I do think it`s a shame that they`ve not taken the time to include female characters in the multiplayer. They have made some really cool female characters in the past. Seems like a bizarre decision.

    It looks like a case of "get it out on time and not too much over budget" to me. It takes a non-trivial amount of time and money to create a playable character. If it`s not going to be used for the main game, it can look like time and money that doesn`t have to be spent.
  35. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    July 31, 2014 at 6:12 pm
    So yes, they are saying including female players in multiplayer would take too much work/time/money.

    Which is not the claim I was replying to. That claim was that there weren`t any female characters in the game at all and that female characters and only female characters were not put in because of money.

    What they actually said was that adding more characters as playable characters in multiplayer would have added more cost and time (more voice acting, more art, more animation, etc), so they used the player character from the main game.

    Had the main character been female, of course, feminists would not have been complaining. Does this feminist complain about the main character in Lara Croft games being female or that you can`t play Lara Croft games as a male character? No, of course she doesn`t. And neither do you. Or anyone else.
  36. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 6, 2014 at 3:35 pm
    (Cambridge Dictionary Online)
    4: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
    5: Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending a state of equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women. (Wikipedia)

    (sarcasm)
    Sure, *I`m* the one brainwashed by "PR spin doctoring". Me and the world`s dictionaries, that is. It couldn`t /possibly/ be YOU that has it wrong.
    (/sarcasm)
  37. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    August 6, 2014 at 3:35 pm
    Angilion: "The difference is that my description of feminism is accurate and yours is PR spin doctoring that bears no resemblence to anything that happens in reality."

    feminism
    noun
    1: the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. (Dictionary.com)
    2: The advocacy of women`s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. (Oxford English Dictionary)
    3: an organized effort to give women the same economic, social, and political rights as men
  38. Profile photo of iamatree
    iamatree Male 18-29
    551 posts
    July 29, 2015 at 4:12 pm
    in the infamous game in question (assassin`s creed: unity) its predecessors had females in multiplayer. so they could have easily made females for the semi-co-op game, but didn`t.
  39. Profile photo of jay
    jay Male 30-39
    1790 posts
    July 29, 2015 at 4:44 pm
    If not for all the MRA bulls.hit, I doubt we`d even hear much about feminism....and the arrogance of trying to argue against every dictionary on the planet from blowhards that challenge the character counter without sharing anything of substance.
  40. Profile photo of bdowner60
    bdowner60 Male 40-49
    593 posts
    July 29, 2015 at 8:00 pm
    So true , BWAHAHAHAHA !!

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