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Category: Science
Date: 06/12/15 01:30 PM

52 Responses to Something For Creationists To Think About [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7740 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 7:03 am
    Link: Something For Creationists To Think About - Of course, all these scientists could be lying
  2. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 1:46 pm
    You mean something for creationists to rejoice over?
  3. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 1:53 pm
    I don`t know what kind of site that is, but it definitely made me laugh. :-)
  4. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2340 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 1:54 pm
    Anecdotes! Color me convinced.

  5. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 1:57 pm
    I don`t understand this preaching to the choir business. Does it make people feel better about themselves?
  6. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 2:06 pm
    Probably the same excuse as dinosaur bones ... God put them there to mess with us.
  7. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm
    @Andrew155, "I don`t understand this preaching to the choir business. Does it make people feel better about themselves?"

    I find your choice of metaphor to be very amusing given the topic. :)
  8. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3849 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 4:05 pm
    aliens?
  9. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 4:14 pm
    Of course, all these scientists could be lying

    Maybe it`s a government conspiracy....right drawman?
  10. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 8:03 pm
    You can`t argue with people who believe in magic. So why do you keep trying?
  11. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 8:08 pm
    Ollie: Christians don`t believe in "Magic", we believe in God and many of us have witnessed things that cannot be explained away as mere coincidence.

    In fact, the Bible admonishes those that do believe in mediums, magic, illusions and psychics.
  12. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 8:30 pm
    "Ollie: Christians don`t believe in Magic, we believe in God and many of us have witnessed things that cannot be explained away as mere coincidence."

    Tides, for example...
  13. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 8:41 pm
    There`s MILLIONS of weird things out there!
    Most can be "explained" fairly easily, but not ALL of them.

    Some things might take decades to fully understand, other things might actually re-write science or history books! It`s happened many times already: a "shunned" nutty theory turns out to be 100% fact = now it`s science!
    Darwin springs to mind...
  14. Profile photo of Baphxiii
    Baphxiii Male 40-49
    91 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 9:10 pm
    @CrakrJak "the Bible admonishes those that do believe in mediums, magic, illusions and psychics".

    It is rather fortuitous that Jesus was living in the first century C.E. Because if he was living in Europe in say the 15th century. Performing miracles like walking on water and raising the dead. The christians of that time would have burned his ass at the stake for being a witch.
  15. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 12, 2014 at 10:39 pm
    Baphxii: "The christians of that time would have burned his ass at the stake for being a witch."

    I seriously doubt that. There were several examples of saints that healed people, prophesied, had stigmata, etc... Most all were revered, although there were a few that were martyred, Joan of Arc comes to mind.
  16. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 12:38 am
    I noticed that most of these finds were made in the 1800s.
    Nothing like using the century old claims of some "unbiased" individual as your basis in fact.
  17. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 12:40 am
    ".... many of us have witnessed things that cannot be explained away as mere coincidence."

    Yeah, in layman`s terms that`s referred to as "Ignorance".
  18. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 12:44 am
    Yeesh. The first identifiable object on that page is the "fossilized handprint". Turns out that this find comes straight from Carl Baugh, a creationist who is a joke even to many other creationists. There is no evidence that has ever been given that the supposed hand print predates humans, much less comes from the Cretaceous, as Baugh claims. Nor has it ever been allowed to be studied carefully enough to determine if it is genuine, tampered with, or wholly manufactured.

    A lot of the rest of these are just anecdotes, with no way to verify them. Some others are likely hoaxes.

    In short, this page is just a list of claims and assumptions that, of the most common explanations for these objects, the far less plausible *supernatural* explanation that they want to be true, is the one that`s actually true.
  19. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 12:50 am
    CrakrJak: "Christians don`t believe in `Magic`, we believe in God and many of us have witnessed things that cannot be explained away as mere coincidence."

    We don`t have to "explain away" *anything*. If you want anyone to believe that God was the cause, then *you* have to prove it.

    Pretending we have to "explain it away", otherwise it stands as "proof of God" or something, is a dishonest shifting of the burden of proof.

    If you don`t know what caused something, then that`s all you can say. You can`t turn ignorance into evidence of anything, much less God.

    So far, after all these thousands of years, there is still no objective evidence which conclusively points to any gods existing, much less your particular deity of choice.
  20. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:36 am
    HiEv: "If you want anyone to believe that God was the cause, then *you* have to prove it."

    No we don`t, it`s called faith. Any faith that prerequisites proof is a weak faith.

    "You can`t turn ignorance into evidence of anything". The personal experience of highly unlikely coincidence is NOT "ignorance". Personally I`ve had a lot of life experiences, that were described as "near miss", "lucky" or "happy accidents", too many for me to believe they were all just coincidences.

    In fact, several of those "coincidences" have lead to others in long running chains that have guided me to opportunities and resources that otherwise wouldn`t have been available.

    I`m not special in that regard, many many others have similar life stories and they`ve realized, as I have, that God guides things.
  21. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:42 am
    The last time I was in Glen Rose, I was very depressed to see how many cars were parked outside of the Creationist museum.
  22. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:49 am
    CrakrJak
    In fact, several of those "coincidences" have lead to others in long running chains that have guided me to opportunities and resources that otherwise wouldn`t have been available."
    -------

    Human brains are designed to find patterns and connections. You can build a connection between anything you like and attribute it to anything you like.

    As for faith. It is a nasty word. Faith means taking another person`s word for it and not asking for any proof. If someone tells you that the sky is green but you have to have faith. Just say "Sure thing. I believe!" without actually looking up to see, is just plain dangerous. Luckily, without the threat of being an outcast from society; a lot more people are looking up now a days.
  23. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:49 am
    Okay- be fair- most Christians are NOT creationists. There seem to be quite a few in the US- but that is rather odd (and rather bloody scary) but for most people there is no conflict between science and religion. It would be nice if we could stop thinking all Christians are ignorant creationists and most Moslems are violent terrorists. These stereotypes are neither accurate nor helpful.
  24. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:55 am
    To elaborate on the "connections" idea, how about this hypothetical:

    Yesterday, I realized that the dog had knocked down the box of breakfast cereal and eaten it. So, I either had to eat my Daughters sugar cereal or make toast. So...toast it is. Because making toast takes a bit longer I was a minute later getting out the door. Because I was a minute later getting out the door, I didn`t stop to talk to our neighbour (who I usually see in the morning). Because I didn`t stop to talk to my neighbour, I was 5 minutes early for work. Because I was 5 minutes early for work, my boss got to be before anyone else and told me I had to work on the week end. Because I had to work on the week end, I missed a fishing trip. On that fishing trip, the boat sunk and everyone died.

    Do I have faith that the dog is my lord and saviour? Did he save me from death?
  25. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:57 am
    @madduck.

    I`d have to disagree. IMO, science and religion cannot be interchanged. If you base your entire belief system on a book that is supposed to be the word of the all mighty being you follow, then you have to follow that book. If science finds the book is wrong, then you can`t follow that book. If you can`t follow that book then you don`t need to base your faith on it and of course, if you aren`t basing your faith on it, then you don`t have a religion.
  26. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:58 am
    The only way to have science and religion is if you believe that the Devil has changed the Bible to trick you. To be fair, if you`ve gone that far...there isn`t much hope for you.
  27. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 7:54 am
    @patchouly

    "Do I have faith that the dog is my lord and saviour?"

    I do! How may I worship doggy jesus?
  28. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 8:43 am
    @Musuko42,
    By sending me lots of money. I will make sure you get a good place in Doggy Heaven; based on the numerical value of your contribution to me, of course.
  29. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 8:45 am
    Okay Patch- most christians I know are, obviously, British and CofE. I think that translates to Episcopalian. They take the bible as what it is- a collection of texts which show the beginnings of a faith in a being- that we cannot know, the `thing` before the singularity. they DO believe in Jesus and his ideas about being nice, and put that into a modern framework. I don`t believe- couldn`t if I wanted to- but they do, and most of them accept that they frame their belief in a cultural context- knowing full well they could equally be Moslem or Buddhists if they were born in a different place. Which is why they are very keen on interfaith harmony. If you DO believe in `something` then that is probably the best way to do it.. but they do no harm.
  30. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 8:54 am
    Okay- be fair- most Christians are NOT creationists. There seem to be quite a few in the US

    I`ve yet to meet any this is what happens when you use the internet as your guide.......
  31. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 8:59 am
    @patchouly

    Doggy heaven sounds awesome! I`m in!
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 9:20 am
  33. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 9:24 am
    @patchouly

    Doggy heaven sounds awesome! I`m in!
  34. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 10:17 am
    HiEv: "If you want anyone to believe that God was the cause, then *you* have to prove it."
    CrakrJak: "No we don`t, it`s called faith."

    You do if you want anyone *else* to believe you for *valid* reasons.

    "Faith" is not a valid reason for belief.

    CrakrJak: "The personal experience of highly unlikely coincidence is NOT `ignorance`."

    Not knowing why somethings have happened *IS* ignorance. Treating that ignorance as "knowledge" or "evidence" of God is not a valid conclusion.

    Even in a universe without gods, coincidences would still happen. That`s basic statistics. You`re simply reading too much into those coincidences because humans are inherently bad at statistics and tend to see more significance in them than they deserve.

    Check out The Odds Must Be Crazy.
  35. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 12:02 pm
    Time for me to chime in, too. I`m an atheist. I don`t try to convince those of faith that they`re wrong, I simply feel differently. As long as they don`t try to preach to me I keep my personal feelings personal. I don`t feel, however, that there`s anything wrong with faith if it gives someone comfort and a feeling of reason to our existence. I don`t insult them and it bothers me to see IABers referring to it as belief in magic, etc. That`s a completely unnecessary insult of someone else`s beliefs.

    @HiEv,
    "Faith is not a valid reason for belief."
    As I understand it, that`s correct. Faith *IS* belief.
  36. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 1:50 pm
    Now it is THAT time of a Friday evening- I think it is not belief itself which we should have issue with- but specific beliefs. Some people just ` believe`... and that in itself is fine- it is when that `belief` translates itself into a specific- harmful belief that we can have issue with??
  37. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 4:58 pm
    If you believe in god you`re an idiot. Why? Science.
    Now I understand religion is for people not smart enough for science.Why? Because if they understood science they would know the "Invisible Man in the sky" is the result of a self-induced psychosis.
    There is no kind way to say it. The religious are insane.
  38. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 5:06 pm
    @patchouly
    Doggy heaven sounds awesome! I`m in!
    @Musuko42: it sounds TERRIBLE! I`m out! :-P

    @madduck: Ah! A voice of reason!
    Just because @HiEv doesn`t agree with @CrakrJak`s "reason" for belief (faith) doesn`t make either of them "wrong" eh?

    Everyone has "faith" every single day! Not of a religious sort, perhaps, but we still "assume" certain things will happen based on past experiences and un-provable beliefs.

    Like Robert A Wilson said: "Before you sat down in your chair, did you test it to see if it was broken? That`s faith!"
  39. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 5:10 pm
    @ZeeGrr60: Cosmology Where did everything come from? I mean EVERYTHING; including the Big Bang.

    The exact same answer "science" uses for the BB is the one certain Monotheists use for "God".

    As a Deist, I believe in God the All-Creator, but follow no religious teachings. Does that make me smart or stupid? ;-)

    I`m just saying, "faith" plays a role in science too. They might use a different word for it though...
  40. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:05 pm
    Patch: "Faith means taking another person`s word for it and not asking for any proof."

    I`ll take Jesus` words over any others and no proof is needed to know they are the truth.
  41. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    I`m a practicing pagan and church-going Christian ... and while I believe a lot of things as truth, I know I can`t call them fact, so I believe in them based on MY faith and leave others alone to their beliefs and their faiths. Even I know that some of it (amounts vary) are just emotional crutches to make you feel more comfortable with the unknown, with things beyond our control, fate, luck, etc, etc. And there`s nothing wrong with it ... until you start going around spouting "my invisible man can beat up your invisible man"
  42. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 7:36 pm
    @CrakrJak: Exactly!

    Since when does "faith" REQUIRE "proof"?

    Since... NEVER! DUH!

    Some folks need to brush up on their Dictionary Definitions...
  43. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5444 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 9:42 pm
    "The only way to have science and religion is if you believe that the Devil has changed the Bible to trick you."

    I don`t know if you are trolling, or if you just define religious as how you see fit, and not how the actual faithful see fit.


    I am a scientist and a Christian.
  44. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5444 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 9:43 pm
    "If you believe in god you`re an idiot. Why? Science."

    This is pure non-sense. Science does not seek to confirm or deny the existence of a god(s).
  45. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5444 posts
    June 13, 2014 at 9:44 pm
    As for the linked article, it is nothing more than rubbish.
  46. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    June 14, 2014 at 2:12 am
    @elkingo

    "This is pure non-sense. Science does not seek to confirm or deny the existence of a god(s)."

    True. But, science does show, more and more each day, that god(s) is unnecessary.

    "As for the linked article, it is nothing more than rubbish."

    So you dismiss the entirety of the article outright. Well, that does prove that you are a Christian. I don`t know about the scientist part, though. Feel like sharing your sources that show everything in that article to be "rubbish"?

    8-) LJ
  47. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5444 posts
    June 14, 2014 at 5:46 am
    Lord_Jereth - most of that stuff on that page has been shown over and over to either be fake, exaggerated, un-provable, allegorical, or just plain nonsense. Some of those "items" that creationists have found they refuse to let them be tested by other scientists (peers).

    Its not my job to prove these things are false mind you, its your job to prove to me they are not.
    The burden of proof doesn`t lay with the one in disbelief; yet the one making a claim.
  48. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5444 posts
    June 14, 2014 at 5:51 am
    Foot prints

    coal pot

    However, with all that being said, here are two that I know have been discussed to death, and some reasonable discussion on them.

  49. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    June 14, 2014 at 8:03 am
    @Lord Jereth,
    For some believers, the discoveries of science are confirmations of the wonders of God.
  50. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    June 14, 2014 at 8:04 am
    Also,
    "So you dismiss the entirety of the article outright. Well, that does prove that you are a Christian."
    I`m an atheist who was raised Jewish and I also think the article was crap.
  51. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    June 17, 2014 at 7:57 pm
    CrakrJak: "I`ll take Jesus` words over any others and no proof is needed to know they are the truth."

    But you`ve never heard Jesus` words. All you`ve ever heard is what other people *CLAIM* that Jesus said and did. So you aren`t taking Jesus` word, you`re taking the word of some nameless authors of the Gospels without any evidence that they`re right.

    Furthermore, what kind of lame deity is afraid of a little fact checking to determine if what he/she/it said is true? If I were a god I`d make sure my claims were easily verifiable.

    @5Cats: You`re conflating the "trust" definition of "faith" with the blind "belief without evidence or in spite of the evidence" definition of "faith" we`re using here. They`re two different things.
  52. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    June 12, 2015 at 8:28 pm
    Faith is what one uses to believe claims without evidence. If evidence exists, one does not need faith, because one has knowledge. In light of this, science and faith are necessarily incompatible. Science is an evidence-based process, not a world-view. Religion is a faith-based belief system, a world-view.

    A scientist who believes in evidence for the existence of god either does not understand evidence or does not understand science. Or they have erected a cognitive dissonance within them that will impair their ability to evaluate evidence and thus diminish their ability to accurately evaluate reality (reality being the sum of things that are true).

    Believing in something for which there is no demonstrable evidence is not scientific, it is delusional.

    That way lies madness.

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