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Date: 05/05/15 10:30 AM

69 Responses to Supreme Court Okays Prayer At Meetings [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:42 am
    Link: Supreme Court Okays Prayer At Meetings - Prayer has become part of the Nation`s heritage and tradition.
  2. Profile photo of chicagojay
    chicagojay Male 40-49
    2018 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:35 am
    Allowed, not required.
  3. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:41 am
    Seems fair enough to me, as long as it`s managed effectively and people have the choice to sit the prayer part out if they so wish.
  4. Profile photo of danagamer
    danagamer Male 30-39
    701 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:50 am
    as long as they acknowledge Jesus is gay and has oral sex with satan regularly
  5. Profile photo of scheckydamon
    scheckydamon Male 60-69
    716 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:14 am
    danagamer: dude, dem is harsh words. You really willing to take the bet that he`s not watching?

    Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
    Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin` me on"
    God say, "No." Abe say, "What ?"
    God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
    The next time you see me comin` you better run"
    Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin` done ?"
    God says. "Out on Highway 61".

  6. Profile photo of toeachhisown
    toeachhisown Male 50-59
    418 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:41 am
    From Wikipedia

    The Chaplain of the United States Senate opens each session of the United States Senate with a prayer, and provides and coordinates religious programs and pastoral care support for Senators, their staffs, and their families. The Chaplain is appointed by a majority vote of the members of the Senate on a resolution nominating an individual for the position. The three most recent nominations have been submitted based on a bipartisan search committee although that procedure is not required.

    Chaplains are elected as individuals and not as representatives of any religious community, body, or organization. As of 2011, all Senate Chaplains have been Christian but can be members of any religion or faith group. Guest Chaplains, recommended by Senators to deliver the session`s opening prayer in place of the Senate Chaplain, have represented "all the world`s major religious faiths."

    Nothing new here, move along.
  7. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:42 am
    danagamer: Nice try, but we don`t feed trolls here. Get back under your bridge.
  8. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:56 am



    "As long as a reasonable effort at inclusion is made." I can`t wait to see all the xians at meetings squirm when "The Angel of the Bottomless Pit and Prince of Darkness" is invoked. Should be fun.
  9. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2347 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 12:07 pm
    It`s a good idea; Historically, prayer has proven to make a big difference.
  10. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 12:16 pm

  11. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 12:18 pm
    As a secular person, I don`t particularly care if they open with a prayer, as long as they don`t force anyone to participate. I usually just bow my head respectfully in those situations.

    However, I`m not sure I can see the constitutional justification for the ruling.
  12. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    Just another example of how religion is being pushed down our throats on a daily basis and the reason why atheists need to stand up against it.

    The only way this becomes fair, in my eyes, is if they allow all religions to say their own relevant prayers at the beginning and allow atheists to sit back wait it out. Keeping it because it`s a "tradition" is just ridiculous.
  13. Profile photo of ArgusTuft
    ArgusTuft Male 50-59
    1215 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 2:07 pm
    They have to Patchouly. Insecure people find safety in numbers. Mob mentality. Gregarian justification.
  14. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 2:25 pm
    As an areligious person, I have always used "prayer times" as a moment of self-reflection and meditation.

    OR, I could be a cynical mofo like some people here and think that religion is actually being stuffed down my throat, while it`s on the decline.
  15. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 2:53 pm
    While I think it`s stupid to have a prayer at a government meeting, I honestly don`t care enough to b*tch about it. Just as Andrew155 said, religiosity is on the decline anyway. Focus on making people more scientifically literate and everything else falls into place. Many countries in Europe still have state religions, but their populations are more secular than the US. Making people smarter is a much better goal, be they religious or not.
  16. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 2:53 pm
    Andrew: note, you used words "self-reflection and meditation". Both of those has NOTHING to do with public prayer that can actually offend somebody. Like me. I`m totally ok if one does a silent prayer but i`m not ok if i`m REQUIRED to participate or listen. I had to endure 9 years of public religious stuff, each and every day where i wasn`t participating (take a ten year old boy, put him out from the classroom for the duration of morning prayer and lets see how long it takes before he is bullied.. yeah, religion, nice invention..)

    When prayer is done in silence, i feel that then it is a real prayer. When it`s done in public, it`s a sign of a group reinforcing or simply: just effing taking credit for being so "holy". There are churches for public prayers and you are not (yet) forced to got there, it`s your own choice.
  17. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 3:34 pm
    Prayer is always a good thing. hope, and peace, even wisdom comes from it. Its why no one can end it, and why faith will go on forever. why holy scriptures are studied by more and more these days.

    I hope people don`t test outlawing prayer from government, because the less of it there is, the greater the decay the government has. This is a theme in history. If the love for money etc. replaces it, it will surely doom itself.
  18. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    The bizarre thing is that all the socialists opposed this; they are making their anti-religious bigotry rather obvious. It is a clear and obvious reading of the Constitution. As an atheist living in a country with an established religion I also don`t see the problem.
  19. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 4:05 pm
    Oho correct you are 747, can I get a lusty "Hail Satan" to that testimony then?


    If the fundies get their undies in a twist over Satanism having to be included I wonder what they`ll think when I start demanding representation for my religion. I can just see the delight written all over their faces when I start invoking Diana, Demeter and Cybele...
  20. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 4:34 pm
    @747Pilot,
    See that`s where opinions differ. I feel that prayer is the brainwashing that reinforces the evil that is religion. It is part of everything that is wrong. The quicker we do away with it, the better off we will be, as a society.
  21. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 5:55 pm
    [quote">Prayer is always a good thing. hope, and peace, even wisdom comes from it.[/quote">



    What about this couple that let not one, but TWO of their children die because they felt that prayer would heal them instead of going to a doctor? No children should die because of the stupidity of their parents.
  22. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm
    patchouly: I used to think a similar thing until the proof grabbed me by the scruff of the neck, and said "here i am". Guess you`d have to see it for yourself to believe it. But don`t hold your breath, because faith isn`t going away any time soon. Prayer definitely has had positive influences throughout history, and still does today...
  23. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 6:29 pm
    Pooptart19: who is any of us to judge.. are we in a perfect world? Why do people pray for money?
  24. Profile photo of Dad4Life
    Dad4Life Male 50-59
    2086 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 6:42 pm
    Been doing that before every NASCAR race for over 60 years.
  25. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 7:41 pm
    747Pilot, your definition of "proof" is sorely lacking.
  26. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 7:42 pm
    I love how conservatives claim to support the Constitution. Except, you know, when they don`t. Granted, the Constitution doesn`t explicitly ban prayer before a government meeting, but, for the same reasons prayer`s not allowed to be led in school, it ought to be obvious why it is unfathomably inappropriate prior to a government meeting where taxpayers of every (or no) faith are ostensibly welcome to come engage in their government. What a bunch of poo this is.
  27. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 7:47 pm
    I see nothing wrong with this, I went to catholic school when I was a little kid, I stayed seated when the other kids took communion. It was fine, I actually enjoyed going, it was a peaceful break from the day. Same when I went with my friend to his synagoge. I`m agnostic, but even if your full blown atheist, there is a lot to learn from religion. If nothing else it captures the morality of different cultures and can make you think of new ways of bettering society.
  28. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 7:51 pm
    This has been the norm for 230 years. I don`t know why everyone has their panties in a bunch.

    Why do people get more upset about some preacher saying a prayer at a public meeting than they do about the IRS demanding to know the content of prayers at a private meeting?
  29. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 8:11 pm
    SmagBoy1: or perhaps yours is...
  30. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 8:51 pm
    Everyone has their panties in a bunch because I don`t want to part of your "club" and do the silly things your "club" does and behave the way your handbook says!!!
  31. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 8:59 pm
    No, 747Pilot, the definition of the word "proof" really isn`t up for debate.
  32. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:30 pm
    Breaking News: SCOTUS rules that slavery is not unconstitutional. After all, it`s part of the Nation`s heritage and tradition. What a five-pack of idiots those white, Christian men are...
  33. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm
    Can we pray to satan?
  34. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:44 pm
    Everyone has their panties in a bunch because I don`t want to part of your "club" and do the silly things your "club" does and behave the way your handbook says!!!
    No one`s asking you to join a club or change your behavior. If you can`t sit still and STFU for 2 min. while the witch doctor says his little incantation, you had better tap into that wonderful Canadian health care system and see if they can do anything about your raging ADD. What, are you afraid you`re going to be converted?

    The 1st amendment only says "Congress shall make no law..." It has not one damned thing to say about city councils.

    Conversely, the 2nd amendment says "...shall not be infringed," which is a MUCH stronger constraint on government at ALL levels, yet liberals seem to have no problem pissing all over that.
  35. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:46 pm
    What a five-pack of idiots those white, Christian men are...
    Well now you`ve made your problem obvious to everyone. You`re a bigot.
  36. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2345 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 9:56 pm
    so, when someone wants to do an islamic prayer or a Wicca prayer or (insert any religion that is NOT christanity) christians are going to be okay with this?

    no, they won`t be but as they continue to pass these types of laws, thinking how smart they are and patting each other on the backs, they fail to realize that everyone else is going to use them to further their own, non-christian religions.

    congrats christians, you are idiots.
  37. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36859 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    "Prayer has an historical precedent and therefore is okay."
    So does slavery.
  38. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:52 pm
    Gerry: So does ownership of your wife.
  39. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 10:56 pm
    @jamie76: Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus have all given prayers and yes, christians were ok with them. There are always individuals who want only their way because they can`t stand to listen to a view they don`t share, whether they be atheists or religious fundamentalists. But such bigotry is not followed by the government.

    Imam Yahya Hendi:


    Rabbi Amy Raider:



    Imam Talib Shareef:


    Satguru Bodhinatha:


    The Dalai Lama:
  40. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:31 pm
    Hindu senate invocation.

    That went well. I`m sure Islamic prayers will go down equally as well especially down south. We will hear fresh rage about creeping sharia and indoctrination now that Bubba has to sit through it (and can`t do anything about it).

    And when Wiccans give an invocation we should go all out, I mean circle cast, candles, incense, the whole nine yards. If I gotta listen to Bubba then Bubba`s gonna get an earful from me.




  41. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:47 pm
    "If I gotta listen to Bubba then Bubba`s gonna get an earful from me."

    So then you are no different than the bigot in your video? I would have no problem with a Wiccan opening, I`d find it rather interesting. As I said there will always be bigots who can`t stand to listen to a view they don`t share, but that doesn`t mean you should support bigotry if its the other way either.
  42. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 5, 2014 at 11:57 pm
    No r&d, if I have to sit through a prayer praising Jebus and how Jebus is the only way and heathens like myself are all going to hell for not accepting the Jebus; then when it`s my turn to give the prayer (and I will have my turn, you can`t bar me) I`m going to give you the high church experience of my religion so to speak.

    We will be there all day saluting the four directions, calling in the elements and finally invoking the Goddess. (Which Goddess? Not sure yet, but I`ll find one).

    I don`t care that you believe I`m damned because I`m not xian, Wicca has no exclusivity clause like that. Feel free to say so. But if I have to hear that day in and day out then equal time is gonna be a b^tch.
  43. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:17 am
    @QueenZira: Firstly, I`m agnostic, as I`ve mention in multiple different posts and on my profile. Secondly its just an opening prayer. The government won`t favor your religion with an all day affair, simply an opening prayer as is with every other religion.

    But please, invoke your goddess, invoke all of them! I won`t bar you and neither will the government. I have to go to work now, but I`ll just say in conclusion that bigotry is not the answer, it is simply ignorance.
  44. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:25 am
    Paganism doesn`t care what deities (if any) you honor, it really doesn`t matter as there are simply countless divine expressions and no penalty for not serving one of them. There is no monopolistic claim to the sacred and no creeds that have to be espoused to the exclusion of all others. It is not about intellectual affirmation of belief, it is about *practice*. What you *do* matters more than what you *say*.

    The only bigotry here are those missionizing triumphalist faiths that seek to extirpate all others. My protest against that mindset is all it is, a protest, and a well deserved one at that.
  45. Profile photo of toeachhisown
    toeachhisown Male 50-59
    418 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:48 am
    Can we pray to satan?

    YES
  46. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 3:04 am
    SmagBoy1: Proof is evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, which tends to prove or disprove something. And this is the evidence people find through prayer and faith. Don`t let your bias or prejudice declare something to be a way when you have yet to see the proof; you could close yourself off to a possibility you never considered.
  47. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 5:30 am
    @QueenZira: Thats great about paganism, but I think you`ll find pagan religions differ about what is important. Even Wiccans have prayers, chants, and blessings and many would be considered appropriate for an opening prayer.

    I`m also very sorry, even if you feel you are doing so innocently, you are expressing bigotry. Bigotry is the intolerance toward those who hold different views or characteristics. You are intolerant of those who have religious views that are different than yours, especially if they attempt to express themselves at these functions, that is the definition of bigotry. Merely protesting people expressing their religion does not make it clear of bigotry. Neo-nazis and the kkk have protests too. They have had protests against Jewish expression, but that doesn`t mean they were and are not bigots.
  48. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 5:37 am
    747Pilot:
    "Prayer definitely has had positive influences throughout history, and still does today..."
    ------

    Again, that`s up for debate. I think prayer is a damaging practice that aids in reinforcing your brainwashing. It`s is one of the roots of the religion tree.

    However, if they are going to allow a long line up of people to give a prayer for every represented religion in the community, as utterly ridiculous as that is, I can`t really argue against it.
  49. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 5:52 am
    747Pilot, yes, that`s true. And "faith" is seeing proof where there is only biased correlation (if that). I`m not saying faith is bad or negative (except when used as en excuse to establish a state religion), but it is not proof of anything. If you could prove God`s existence, I`d accept it on the spot. That`s the problem, though. There is no "proof". At all. I`m not trying to be mean, I`m just trying to be accurate. You have faith in His existence, and that`s fine, but you`ve no proof, and never will have any. That`s okay, though, right? Faith is all He requires (John 3:16), yes?
  50. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2250 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 7:19 am
    Pooptart... of all the opinions on here.... that all prayer is wrong because some nut jobs believe that putting 100% of their faith up over the health of a child/loved one? it certainly can`t be the NUTJOBS! (sarcasm font)

    Lemmie guess what your stance is on the 2nd amendment since the first and fourteenth mean nothing either.
  51. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am
    Pooptart... of all the opinions on here.... that all prayer is wrong because some nut jobs believe that putting 100% of their faith up over the health of a child/loved one? it certainly can`t be the NUTJOBS! (sarcasm font)
    Hey, a$$hole. Read 747Pilot`s original comment that I was responding to in the first place.
    Prayer is always a good thing. hope, and peace, even wisdom comes from it.
    I pointed out that prayer is NOT always a good thing. Does it provide hope? Yes, false hope. Wisdom? Well, I think I`ve already pointed out the wisdom of the prayer warriors already, so chew on that.
  52. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    579 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 9:32 am
    It saddens me to read through these comments and see people accusing my Christian (Catholic) faith of the very intolerance and bigotry they themselves show towards the Christian faith. If someone claims to follow Christ then compassion for all comes first especially when it involves people who do not agree with you. there is no forcing of prayer here; no hatred, no brain-washing. Pray or do not pray as you see best. I will keep all of you in my prayers; prayers for peace.
  53. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 9:35 am
    R&d, if by bigotry you mean I`m opposing a religious message on public grounds, which are supposed to belong to *everyone* without exception, but not just any religious message, a religious message designed to derogate and intimidate me because I don`t belong to the majority religion- then yeah, totally, guilty as charged.
  54. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 9:42 am
    Oh and the minute you go full Godwin, you lose an argument. Anyone who screams "Nazi!" for stupid reasons shows they have no rhetorical support left and have decided to throw the kitchen sink at you.

  55. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 11:46 am
    @QueenZira: Yes, by bigotry I mean the intolerance you show to anyone who is not your faith. Public grounds is everyones grounds, that is correct. They are not your personal grounds. You have no right to suppress and silence other peoples first and fourteenth amendment rights simply because you don`t like what they are saying. Thats bigotry, you`re not a victim because you get offended by what other people say, you`re a bigot because you have no tolerance for any faith other than your own. I`m not trying to insult you, it just is what it is.

    Your claim that prayers outside your faith "derogate and intimidate" you because you`re not part of the majority is baseless and absurd. Such issues were cleared up in Marsh v. Chambers, I suggest you have a look at it. You do not have the right to censor whomever you wish simply because you do not happen to be in the majority, that is not your right.
  56. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:07 pm
    From the ruling, Justice Kennedy writing for the majority, "Invocations that denigrate nonbelievers, religious minorities, threaten damnation or preach conversion..." are beyond the Constitutional pale.

    You just can`t accept your own side`s ruling can you? It doesn`t go far enough in enforcing religious conformity and establishing religious hegemony. Too bad.

    All I`ve said here is that xian prayers, Wiccan prayers and everyone else`s prayers have *NO* place whatsoever in public places. Period. Churches and Temples and what have you are already established for that. You don`t need to pray in the people`s house because you feel the need to threaten others.

    Again, too bad sweetheart.
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:09 pm
    "you`re not a victim because you get offended by what other people say"

    Quote of the thread right there.
  58. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:11 pm
    PS. I love it when someone who is not part of a religious minority explains exactly what the experience of being a religious minority is like. And what exactly it is I believe about other faiths than my own. Since you inhabit my skin so much better than I do.
  59. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:35 pm
    @QueenZira: I am well aware of what Justice Kennedy said, it is verbatim with the questions he asked the lawyers. That was the reason I told you to read Marsh v. Chambers, what you are claiming was directly related to the conclusions Marsh had reached. I`m sorry but it does not apply to you even if you want it to. That is why Kennedy voted the way he did, against your argument. You`re not a victim because you want to be. You`re not being denigrated because you happen to disagree. When you take this position the court recognizes that you are not a reasonable observer you`re a bigot who wishes to silence other people expression. The majority`s first and fourteenth amendment right outweigh your individual resentment of the topic.
  60. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:38 pm
    If you want to pray to Jesus instead of Isis, Diana, Kali or Hecate, do so. I don`t care. I do not think you`re going to hell for it. There are countless divine expressions, pursue yours with gusto.

    But prayer (any prayer) does not belong in a public governing house of a state that has no established officially sanctioned religion. The state is not a church and is not supposed to help you get to heaven. That portion of Kennedy`s opinion supports my concerns about proselytizers more than it does your disingenuous raliroading of my character.
  61. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:40 pm
    The Establishment Clause of the first amendment precludes any civil religion, period.

    Or are you just gonna continue to talk past me and all my arguments again?
  62. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:46 pm
    America was also established to accept and condone the free expression of all religions. It was not the sole purpose but certainly one of the major purposes. And the ability to listen to different religious views, specifically during the opening prayer, is something the prided this Country with.

    http://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/archive/doc?id=L17740916ja

    I have thrown no sink at you as you claim nor inhabited your skin I have read directly from what you said.

    "when Wiccans give an invocation we should go all out"

    "you believe I`m damned because I`m not xian"
    (never said that by the way)

    " But if I have to hear that day in and day out then equal time is gonna be a b^tch."

    "then when it`s my turn to give the prayer (and I will have my turn, you can`t bar me)"
    (Actually a wiccan did ask the town of gr
  63. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:53 pm
    "When we give an invocation we should go all out"- Sarcasm. I know, I know, doesn`t play well on the internetz.

    "You"-the understood, general you. Not You, personally.

    The rest is sarcasm again, following from the general thesis of the idea of public prayers.

    We just have very different interpretations of the Constitution and what effect that has on members of minority faiths or those with no faith at all. We`re going to have to agree to disagree, but I would caution any xian who currently enjoys majority status to consider that the current setup may not always tilt in your favor. How would you like to be treated as a minority faith?
  64. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:54 pm
    @QueenZira: Your right that the establishment clause does not allow the creation of a officially sanctioned state religion. That is why many religions are represented in the opening prayers, including your faith. The state is not sanctioning a single religion as the true religion but is allowing the expression of all religions.

    I`ll leave you with Kennedy`s words since you seem fond of him.

    "Respondents claim that the prayers gave them offense and made them feel excluded and disrespected, but offense does not equate to coercion...the record here does not suggest that citizens are dissuaded from leaving the meeting room during the prayer, arriving late, or making a later protest. That the prayer in Greece is delivered during the opening ceremonial portion of the town`s meeting, not the policymaking portion, also suggests that its purpose and effect are to acknowledge religious leaders and their institutions, not to exclude or coerce nonbelievers."
  65. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3520 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 12:58 pm
    "We`re going to have to agree to disagree, but I would caution any xian who currently enjoys majority status to consider that the current setup may not always tilt in your favor. How would you like to be treated as a minority faith?"

    I will gladly agree to disagree and kudos to you for suggesting it. But I would say I am a minority faith, agnostics are not well viewed by either atheists or the religious community. But I will defend their right to think and say it.

    I have enjoyed the debate QueenZira, kudos to you.
  66. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    Once we got our communication untangled, yes it was very pleasant. And kudos to you to, Richandead.
  67. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 1:15 pm
    SmagBoy1: i understand completely where you`re coming from. But still, the scriptures hold the procedures that, through time and many generations, have proven to be a reliable guide into understanding the power of the power of prayer. If you haven`t sought or experienced that, then you can`t really be accurate about the proofs of prayer, any more than i can accurately explain what the surface of pluto is like (since i`ve never been there, nor have studied it in depth).
  68. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 1:22 pm
    patchouly: i understand it`s up for debate for you. however, the power of prayer is a very real, and reliable, thing to very many people in this world. Even in Canada we ask God to keep our land glorious and free, and so far.. it`s been so. If you doubt that, consider the Queen of England.. since "God save the Queen" became the national anthem in the 1800s, 2 of England`s longest reigning monarchs have held the throne. Queen Victoria, and Queen Elizabeth II. It`s a song, but can also be a prayer. Sure, some people may say that Scientific Discoveries contributed to their longevity. But whose to say that song didn`t help the discoveries along to `save the queen`, and many others in the process? It is the nature of love (helping, sharing), and God is the author of love..
  69. Profile photo of reddit-sucks
    reddit-sucks Male 18-29
    6 posts
    May 6, 2014 at 6:53 pm
    you`re all going to burn in hell for betraying jesus. russia and china are buying the internet, when you arrest the free for them... billions will die.

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