# Is Common Core The Deebil? [Pic]

Submitted by: SmagBoy1 2 years ago in
33

Over the past week, Ive seen this image multiple times on Facebook and elsewhere, a supposed denunciation of the Common Core version of math that kids are now learning:

That picture is especially popular onconservativesFacebookwalls and Im sure one of your relatives has said something about it, too.

On the surface, it seems ridiculous. The top makes sense; the bottom is silly;screw you, Common Core!

Except that the topdoesntmake sense, the bottomdoes, and the connection to Common Core is completely misunderstood. (Says this math teacher.)

Heres whats going on: The top is how most of us learned subtraction. Im sure your teachers taught you what was going on mathematically, but do you really remember what they said? Probably not. For us, its just an algorithm. You can do it without thinking. You hope theres no borrowing of numbers involved, but if you had to do it by hand, you could probably pull it off.

The problem with that method is that if I ask students to explainwhyit works, they"d have areallyhard time explaining it to me. They might be able to do the computation, but they don"t get the math behind it. For some people, thats fine. For math teachers, thats a problem because it means a lot of students wont be able to grasp other math concepts in the future because they never really developed number sense.

Thats where the bottom solution comes into play. I admit its totally confusing but heres what its saying:

If you want to subtract 12 from 32, theres a better way to think about it. Forget the algorithm. Instead, count up from 12 to an easier number like 15. (You"ve gone up 3.) Then, go up to 20. (You"ve gone up another 5.) Then jump to 30. (Another 10). Then, finally, to 32. (Another 2.)

I know. Thats still ridiculous. Well, consider this: Suppose you buy coffee and it costs \$4.30 but all you have is a \$20 bill. How much change should the barista give you back? (Assume for a second the register is broken.)

You sure as hell arent going to get out a sheet of paper and do this:

Instead, youd just figure it out this way: Itd take 70 cents to get to \$5 and another \$15 to get to \$20 so you should get back \$15.70.

Thats it. Thats the sort of math most of us do on a regular basis and itsexactlythe sort of thinking the new way in the picture is attempting to explain. Granted that was an *awful* example to use, but thats the idea. If students can get a handle on thinkingthisway instead of just plugging numbers into a formula, the thinking goes, it"ll make other math skills much easier to understand.

...or maybe it"s just being used as a political crutch?
Credits: Hemant Mehta
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Male 466
cont.

I can accept the kids with real problems having difficulty.
Now I don`t work in disability services anymore,
I have a higher expectation.
Peoples limbs depend on it.

Would YOU like to operate a Beam Saw or CNC with somebody that cannot perform proper maths?
Male 466
@dang007

Let me give you a little background on myself.
My stepfather is a retired Headmaster whose main subject was maths.
My mum is a school services officer.
I have 16 years under my belt training kids with disability fresh out of school.
Quite a few of those kids on pensions, did not need it, they were just never taught properly.

Quite a few of them ended up getting their asses of the pension, and into fairly high paid positions operating machinery.

Most people will perform a task in the first way they were shown, if given a choice.

It is very hard to break a bad habit once it has been cemented in them.
Teach them the correct way from the start, or else you are setting them up to fail.

A lot of these kids are not stupid, they just had lazy teachers.
The bad habits they learned at the start, stayed with them.
Male 663
>>> Vedic maths<<<

Sure simple multiplication of 2 single digit numbers.

AxB=10(A-(10-B)+(10-A)(10-B) This is the algebraic representation of the Sutra used for single digit multiplication. The second term on the right is the calculation done by using memorized single digit multiplication tables up to 5x5 while the one on the left is the difference carried out crosswise.
Male 663
>>>>In my line of work, it would hold up an entire production line while some clown tries to figure out how many cuts to make. <<<<

totally misses the point. Of course after you understand the principles you use the quickest method applicable. But how to develop that level of understanding in the first place is the question. Or are you hiring 6 and 7 year olds in your line of work?
Male 466
Common Core is NOT a new method. Just a new name.
Try Vedic maths and see how you cope.
I know many methods of maths, but still find that the standard method is best/simplest in most situations.
In my line of work, it would hold up an entire production line while some clown tries to figure out how many cuts to make.
hell, even when I was training guys with disability, they weren`t THAT dumb. What`s YOUR excuse?
Perhaps you should be on a pension too hmm?
Male 916
how is the first way hard to explain? what kind of complete dolt can`t understnad it. put 32 items of type x in front of them, be it apples, oranges or king james bibles... take away twelve of them, let them count the rest.
solution explained. nothing mystical there.
the second method is just insanity.
Male 663
>>>145527 - 345<<<

guess what you use the "common core way" to do this the "old" way.

To get from 5 to 7 you need 2...
To get from 40 to 120 you need 80...
to get from 300 to 400 you need 100...
To get from 0 to 145000 you need 145000...

Add them up and you have 145182..

Or did you not all really understand what the "old" way was in the first place.
Male 663
>>>I was thoroughly taught how the "old" system worked in math<<<,

ARRRGGGGGG there is no NEW system being taught here. It is still the number line and base ten representation of values. I am quite glad that you were able to go deeper into math having "only" been taught the "old" way to solve multi digit subtraction problems. But allow me to make three points.

First, Your example uses the very algorithm being attacked.
Second, I doubt seriously that that was the only way you were ever taught to do subtraction.
Third, just because you were able to go on to "higher math" having only learned one way to do things does not mean that it is the best way to educate current students.
Male 1,421
Nope, the old way is still better. 20-4.30 is 15.70. Of course i go for 15 as the nearest number. I won`t go to 5 and then 10+5. Or depedning in the numbers i can choose to do it the old way, try 16-4, notice i have 0.30 missing, take one out from 16 and do 1-0.3 and add them together. That`s how our minds work, it`s best at using various solutions, figuring out what is the best method on the fly. If you start putting numbers like 145527 - 345, your common core solution flies out the window (just a note, i typed those number in random, it took me four steps to solve it in my head and none of them had the above example used but was a combination of things)

I was thoroughly taught how the "old" system worked in math and has not ever prohibited me to go deeper in to more complex math. Nor has it denied using math tricks (like multiplication of ..9, math involving numbers 5 or 10.. or 2).

The only thing i see happening is that people are better prepared to work
Male 442
THE OLD WAY IS THE BEST WAY AND BECAUSE IT`S HOW I DO IT IT IS THE RIGHT WAY! CHANGE IS BAD!!!
Male 663
>>>This new math-common core whatever you want to call it totally screwed up my younger one to the point where we had to take him out of school and home school him.<<<

Male 663
>>>ALL of time?<<<

What you mean God gave us the original algorithm to solve subtraction problems using the base ten number system? I thought people figured that out over the course of several thousand years. The particular example shown in this posting is ONE of the ways of doing subtraction that HELPED people figure out the algorithm in the first place.
By just jumping to the algorithm without helping kids get a deeper understanding you are cheating them.
Male 662
@Drawman61 what are you talking about? That is how you are taught to give back change.
Male 579
This new math-common core whatever you want to call it totally screwed up my younger one to the point where we had to take him out of school and home school him. Rule #4, "less is more". Sorry I and everyone else in my grade school knew "why" this 3-2=1. This new crap is making things way way way way more difficult than it needs to be. Save that stuff for people that want to go into fields where it`s necessary and needed. Like so many lefty ideas, they look great on paper but when put into practice become a frick`n nightmare!
Male 466
If you used common core method to program my CNC router, I would be tempted to sack you on the spot.
I have spent too many years getting to a point where I finally own my own business, to have some numpty screw it up.
Go back to working a BP checkout before somebody gets injured.
Male 7,774
@broizfam, to be fair to ollie it was me that called them f*cktards. Maths have been around for 1000s of years. It`s one of the most constant things we have. So why does someone suddenly decide they know better than ALL those that have gone before throughout ALL of time?
Male 15,182
My kids are taught at school to look at maths in real-world applications. Their exercises are stated in every different way, back to front, unknowns in the middle; essentially the way that math problems come to us in real life.

At their out-of-school math class, they are taught to approach calculations using several different algorithms, some of which offer shortcuts. Some come from traditional maths, some from competition speed math methods, some mental maths.

At home I teach them a feel for get-it-in the ballpark estimation and show them how to cross-check their calculations so that they know that the answer makes sense.

When it comes to the real world, to the workplace, let`s see what either of your systems achieve. My kids will `get it`. They will use (or invent) the best way of doing it and no matter how they do it, they`ll come up with an answer that makes sense and that they understand the implications of.
Male 9
I just went over my college algebra homework with my 4th grader, she is about on par with my skills.

She is reading almost at my level as well.

I`m not bragging about my kid, I`m bragging about the public school system.

People say our schools suck? My daughter was reading and doing addition in kindergarten.

Know what I was doing in Kindergarten? Napping, waking up and eating graham crackers and milk.

Our schools aren`t nearly as bad as the media makes them out to be.
Male 1,983
Common Core is glorified finger counting and nothing more.
Fine if you are teaching the basic "Concept" of how math works but eventually you *WILL* have to teach the "Algorithm" of the mathematical model used by the rest of humanity or our future mathematicians will not be able to communicate with the rest of the planet.

It`s bad enough that we still use the Imperial Standard of measurement rather than metric, now we`re going to be unique in how we solve math equations?
Maybe we should build a 50 foot wall around the entire country and ignore the rest of the planet.
::facepalm::
Male 399
"If you have to calculate 85745 - 756 - 1 - 976 - 4567, I`d guess knowing the algorythm pays off. Off cause, it`s best to know both."

But is that
85745
-756
- 1
- 976
- 4567
--------
79445

or
85745 - 756 = 84989
84989 - 1 = 84988
84988 - 976 = 84012
84012 - 4567 = 79445

or

85745 - (756 + 1 + 976 + 4567) = 85745 - 6300 = 79445

or

...
Male 689
people need to realize that this isnt a "new way" to do math. this is only core skills. it just gets them ready to understand problems later on. i just wish they learned the old way aswell. for me there is just something solid about math. some problems can be solved multiple ways and there was always a way to check your work.
Male 907
What bu ll sh it!
Male 299
I only do that when I have to borrow. I thought it was common sense...
Male 384
If you limit yourself to 500000 - 85745, CC is better. If you have to calculate 85745 - 756 - 1 - 976 - 4567, I`d guess knowing the algorythm pays off. Off cause, it`s best to know both.

After all, not everybody will sell burgers.
Male 8,427
aliyahg1979-[quote]math problems in any way on paper is becoming obsolete [/quote]
Not a new problem. 20 years ago I had to explain to a cashier at Burger King (who`s register was broken) how to make change from a \$5 bill for a ticket that was \$3.74. I said `Give me a dollar, a quarter and a penny`, and she said `But, how do you KNOW that?`.

That said, EVERYONE should know how to perform simple math with a pencil.

Hell, nowadays the Registers don`t even have numbers...just Pictures of the Food. (and these people want \$15 an hour?)

CrakrJak-[quote]Using the easiest and most direct method is common sense.[/quote]
That being said, no one method is the easiest and most direct for every individual.

What I`ve found tutoring math students is the major problem is that they don`t `get it` the way it`s being instructed. Some students need it explained differently.
Female 1,563
Im confused by this. I suck at math though...sooo....
Male 1,691
It`s two different ways to do the same thing. Some people like the old way better, others like the new way better.

It`s like having a debate between whether apples or oranges are tastier. Is this really worth having a debate over?
Male 15,832
You don`t need math to go on food stamps and vote Democrat.
Male 12,138
[quote]Wait and see if this is this a good idea when you have to wait 20 minutes for some stooge trying to use common core to make change at a cash regester?[/quote]
Wait, what? This is exactly when it IS a good idea to use this method, like it says in the link. My parents used to own a grocery store. If someone bought something that costs 2.13 and gave me a 10 pound note, you don`t sit there and try to subtract 223 from 1000. You get 2p to make it to 220, 10p to make it to 230, 20p to make it to 250, 50p to make it to 300, 2 pound coins to make it to 500 and a 5 pound note to make it to 10 pounds. Easy, quick.
Male 663
<<<Using the easiest and most direct method is common sense. <<<<

Of course it is.... after you have developed enough understand that it is common sense for you. That is the entire point of this strategy, how to get students to a more complete understanding faster.
Male 663
>>>The article is wrong on one account. Both methods are algorithms.<<<<

You are correct of course. However, I would argue that some algorithms are more abstract than others. Starting with the less abstract and working toward the more abstract build understanding faster in general.
Male 17,512
There are many ways to get the same answer, in math.

Using the easiest and most direct method is common sense. Using a screwed up, convoluted and overly complicated algorithm is nonsense.

No one is going to look at 3000-2999 and use the supposed "old way", just as no one is going to look at 32-12 and use this "common core" way. Forcing kids to do things the hardest way, to do anything, only makes them resent the lesson because it seems like punishment.

What "common core" needs is some damn common sense!
Male 2,390
so my daughter taught me a new `common core` math understanding today.

If 2 numbers are 1 off and you add them ie 4 and 5 you don`t just say 4+5=9, you have to say 4 is 1 less than 5 so you double 4 and add 1. I keep getting told that common core is so the kids `understand` why 4+5 is 9 and not that 4+5 is 9..

Sounds like more work for the same result...
Male 584
@TheZigRat you misunderstand. What common core is trying to impart is exactly the type of understanding of numbers that makes figuring out odd amounts change in your head possible.

You don`t USE common core. You (hopefully) gain from it the ability to handle mathematics in the real world without needing a calculator, or pencil and paper.
Male 409
"New math" has been around long before Common Core existed.

The article is wrong on one account. Both methods are algorithms. An algorithm is any method used to derive the correct answer (as opposed to a heuristic, which is an educated guess). The argument is that the algorithm used for "New Math" is ultimately easier for kids to learn and understand than the older algorithm.
Male 6,060
@chicagojay,
It`s because every time something like this comes out, some knee-jerk conservative Democrat-hater like OldOllie blames it on "liberal f*cktards". It`s stupid, tiresome and wrong, I know, but I do believe that`s the reason.
Male 5,872
Did anyone ever do `One`s Compliment` binary math at college? I can see something like that buried here.
Male 5,756
I know a guy who has to take his socks off and drop his pants in order to count to 21
Male 2,100
What kind of clown associates "conservatives" with dislike of common core? I`m in Obama town and I work at a school littered with libs who run around crying every day about common core. So both libs and cons have ideas about it.
Male 4,431
TheZigRat, the post addresses exactly that (making change at a cash register). I think you`ll be surprised with the explanation, and find that you`ve been doing it that way all along...
Male 5,756
Wait and see if this is this a good idea when you have to wait 20 minutes for some stooge trying to use common core to make change at a cash regester?
Male 663
>>>How can anyone use this method to do a Pearson R computation?. <<<

And no one is suggesting that you do......
Male 4,431
DavidXJ, you`re absolutely correct. "Common Core: A Math Teacher`s View" would have been a far superior title. I`ll admit that it was posted as an alternative to a previous post that made Common Core (or, more specially, the example problem) out to be some sort of liberal indoctrination program. But that`s just an excuse for a poor title on my part. I stand corrected.
Male 5,756

Male 5,756
How can anyone use this method to do a Pearson R computation?. It takes one 10 times longer to solve a simple subtraction problem
List the paired scores.
Calculate the product for each XY pair (3rd column below)
Square each individual X and Y score (columns 4 and 5)
Sum and label the columns (see bottom row)

5. Use the following formula to calulate r.

= number of pairs
= product of XY (multiply)
= multiply each X times each Y, then sum the products

6. Find the probability value (p) associated with the obtained r = .667
a. Calculate degrees of freedom (df)
df = N (Number of pairs) - 2
df = 12 - 2 = 10

b. Use the abbreviated table of Critical Values for r to find the p value.

For this example, r = .667, df = 10. The obtained value of .667 exceeds the cutoff of .576 (df = 10) shown on the table at the .05 level. Therefore, p <.05. I
Male 663
<<< higher math as well. he said doing math problems>>>

And exactly how does he define math problems?

And so what???

Being able to type 15-8 on a calculator is fine after one understands what is really going on. That is the purpose of the algorithms in the first place so simplify and speed up the laborious calculations required to do more complicated problems. The issue is that for years the algorithms replaced "understanding" of mathematical concepts. This significantly impacted students ability to grasp higher level material because they lacked foundational understanding.
Male 1,106
What I usually like about this site is that most of the posts are put up with as little opinion in the title as possible so we can read the post for ourselves and then let the fan start slinging poo. This title leaves nothing to the imagination and is condescending even in the way it is written. "Common Core: A Math Teacher`s View" would have been a much better title.

That being said: While I think Common Core, without a doubt has a liberal agenda because, well, it was created by liberals, in this case of the math problem it`s not necessarily a bad thing as long as it`s presented with equations that go along with it. It`s always a good idea to teach more than one way to do things.
Male 4,431
drawman, did you read the description about why it`s laid out like it is? It`s being taught the way that we actually do it in our heads once we learn how. I mean, you can be up in arms about it all you want, and that`s fine, but, kinda difficult to argue the algorithm vs. the-way-we-actually-do-it-in-real-life discussion. At least IMHO.

Too, just do a google search on "conservatives supported common core before they didn`t" to see all you need to see about what`s actually behind this *controversy*. It was one of those rare bipartisan initiatives until, sadly, President Obama made the mistake of singing its praises.

I`m not trying to be political (I`ve made great effort for months now *not* be), that`s just the pretty clear truth.
Female 254
@Agent Smith

my algebra teacher (who`s been teaching for over 35 years, calc, geom)is seeing a change in higher math as well. he said doing math problems in any way on paper is becoming obsolete and the curriculum is changing towards automated calculation. Cashiers no longer need to know how to add or subtract as the registers do all the work and everyone has access to a calculator.
I tend to agree, as in 10 years I doubt anything is going to be calculated on paper.
Male 663
>>>Of course, in real world scenarios, one does not need to know "why" it works just that it works<<<

Only if we want progress to come to a screaming halt.
Female 2,691
I just take off my socks and count.
Male 7,774
What total bullpoo. Which group of liberals without enough real work to fill their days came up with this? The cane should be brought back immediately and used on these f*cktards.
Female 7,997
I can`t do it, which means I can`t help with homework. This is probably a good thing, and really- as long as those being taught can do the maths it should not matter. like knitting- as long as you end up with a pair of socks that fit the way you knit is irrelevant..
Male 2,670
LOL yeah, let`s not use an improper spelling for a mythical boogey-man.

Because he might get mad and smite us all, or something, right?
Male 1,435
I see why, but still, the "old method" works as you are lumping each digit as a part of the number (3 tens and 2 ones minus 1 ten and 2 ones = 1 ten and 0 ones). Of course, in real world scenarios, one does not need to know "why" it works just that it works. Also, if you have to put that much work into figuring out 32-12, then perhaps you should start over from grade 1.
Male 2,579
"The Deebil".... really? Just say the Devil. I know you guys hate to think about spiritual things existing but "The Deebil" doesn`t even sound like a mockery of "devil" anymore, just stupid.

Oh, and common core punishes smarter people for being able to calculate without arbitrary steps.
Male 4,431
Well, that was choice #3, llaa. ;-)
Male 1,692
To answer your question: Its overpaid boring alienated dingbats proving themselves by paying con-artist demagogues for what they think they want to hear.
Male 4,431
Link: Is Common Core The Deebil? [Pic] [Rate Link] - ...or maybe it`s just being used as a political crutch?