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Date: 04/14/14 12:30 PM

91 Responses to New Fast Food Restaurant Pays $15/hour [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of Jerm_Leather
    Jerm_Leather Male 18-29
    897 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 7:27 am
    Link: New Fast Food Restaurant Pays $15/hour - Employees are being paid a living wage and the price of the food is cheaper than the bigger burger chains.
  2. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 12:36 pm
    It works, of course it works. I know a chap who builds houses- and he pays all his chaps a very handsome wage, with decent perks too, he reckons it saves him a fortune. His guys are on the job, working flat out and do not nick stuff- simply because they know they won`t get a better deal.
  3. Profile photo of elderban
    elderban Male 30-39
    390 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 12:50 pm
    I give them a year at the most.
  4. Profile photo of elderban
    elderban Male 30-39
    390 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 12:54 pm
    @madduck: They wont get a better deal until other businesses start doing the same, then $15/hr becomes the new minimum wage and everyone starts saying that $15/hr isn`t enough and that they want $30/hr. See where this is going?

    Granted, businesses should be able to pay someone whatever they want, but the government shouldn`t be able to dictate what businesses MUST pay employees. The cost of living in Los Angeles is much different from the cost of living in some rural town in Georgia, so as a business owner I shouldn`t have to be forced to pay what people in LA are making.
  5. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 1:38 pm
    Pay people a living wage- because people have to live. If you pay them a lesser amount then either they starve or get the money elsewhere- in the UK our benefits are being decimated and I gather in the US they are not too hot either- so where would that money come from if not the public purse? If someone is working full time then the public purse should not be making up their wage as that is subsidising a companies wage bill- wages have not risen in line with the cost of living- and they should have done so. If it was possible to pay someone a living wage in 1970 then it is possible now... unless you are a greedy mean person.
  6. Profile photo of badfish951
    badfish951 Male 70 & Over
    113 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 1:47 pm
    I`m no economist and maybe I`m way off base here but it seems to me that the more dollars people have, the less value the dollar carries. Is that not how it works? I`m honestly asking. If many many more people are willing to spend $50 on a luxury steak dinner, isn`t that luxury steak dinner now under valued?
  7. Profile photo of badfish951
    badfish951 Male 70 & Over
    113 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 1:54 pm
    I guess what I`m getting at is it seems to me that paying menial labor employees a higher amount will simply lower the value of the currency. Right? Again, completely baseless assumption there. Please correct me if that is wrong... just sounds logical to me
  8. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:05 pm
    If only there were a way to up the minimum wage without upping the cost of living, because @elder is right. Eventually, $15/hr won`t be a livable wage.
  9. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:37 pm
    This is what stores like Costco have known for a long time. If you treat your employees with respect, you tend to have more loyalty and less turn over.
  10. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6164 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:44 pm
    From the article-Every day Moo Cluck Moo is open, it stands as a rebuke to an industry that says it can only function by paying crappy wages.
    And, if it goes under, it will in no way be the fault of high wages, right?

    Plus, doing some rough figures, average burger prices in ~28% higher than McDonald`s.

    Hope he makes it. When he`s able to do that with even 10% of the workforce of McDonald`s (say 180,000 employees)..then we`ll talk.
  11. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:52 pm
    badfish951 - It is often claimed on Fox News and right wing talk radio that an increase in the minimum wage will just drive up inflation. But, the historical evidence doesn`t support it.

    In places where there is a sharp increase in the average wages, and people suddenly have disposable income where they didn`t before, you do see inflation (this has happened in India). But, a modest increase has only beneficial effect, because people are still spending most of their income on essentials. This has the effect of "the tide lifts all boats." More money is being spent in the community, meaning that more stores and business open, which increases competition, which keeps down prices.
  12. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6164 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:52 pm
    madduck-because people have to live.
    Most burger-flipping jobs I know of were filled by kids in high-school, living with mom & dad looking for a little spending money. They`re perfectly able to `live` without $15 an hour.

    If you`re flipping burgers, and no longer in school, the problem is not the system.
  13. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:53 pm
    badfish - very nice observation! Yes, you are correct in a way. Essentially, increasing wages often (not always) increases demand for non-inferior goods. In economics lingo, it shifts the demand curve and changes the equilibrium price.

    Let`s make up an example. 8 dollar Starbucks coffee. Currently, let`s say only 50% of people will ever consider buying it. Suddenly, wages double. Now, the coffee is in price range for everybody, so 100% of people will consider buying it. This is the demand increasing. Well, the entity will then raise costs to the point where, say, 60, 50, or 40% of people will consider buying it - whichever value maximizes their profit. It will reach the equilibrium price.
  14. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:54 pm
    Wundt, learn some economics. Learn about the effect of the income coefficient in shifting the demand curve. Fox news has nothing to do with it. I`ve actually never heard them bring up that argument in all my tender years.
  15. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 2:55 pm

  16. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 3:20 pm
    Wundt: "...the historical evidence doesn`t support it."

    Baloney. $100 in 1980 dollars = $285 today.
    That`s nearly a 300% increase. Minimum wages have kept pace with that inflation as well, from $3.10 to $8.25.

    Now they want $15.00 and hour!? That`s nearly double what it is now and the resulting inflation will be catastrophic.
  17. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:19 pm
    MeGrendel

    "Most burger-flipping jobs I know of were filled by kids in high-school, living with mom & dad looking for a little spending money. They`re perfectly able to `live` without $15 an hour.

    If you`re flipping burgers, and no longer in school, the problem is not the system."

    I hear this constantly.

    Who do you want to work at McDonalds at 11am on a Tuesday? Kids in high school? Kids can work 4pm-10pm on weekdays and on weekends. Who do you expect to work at McDonalds the rest of the time?
  18. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:25 pm
    Andrew should really tattoo that graph, he posts it EVERYTIME minimum wage is anywhere near 500km radius of him.

    There is no point trying to post minimum wagein positive light, crakr and andrew and the rest of the cronies will just shoot you down faster you can say jackrabbit. Just like they are paid to do (if you are not paid to do this, it`s even more baffling.. but hey, there`s idiots for every train and some are left in the station..)

    They simply don`t care about equality, Right wing brain will never understand the concept of caring for others, they only know the way of steel: i need to destroy you in order to feel safe. Oh, and they also deny global warming, you get the picture what is their motivation... Wouldn`t be surprised if there was white supremacy lurking in there somewhere.
  19. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:26 pm
    Crakr

    "Now they want $15.00 and hour!?"

    Yes they want $15 an hour to WORK. How much do you get paid to sit around your house and b.itch on the internet?
  20. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:27 pm
    Andrew155

    Good job on your chart posting. SUPER INTERESTING!

    You know that chart is totally f.ucking meaningless right? Know why? Because people are taking jobs they wouldn`t otherwise take at a rate they wouldn`t normally accept because the government takes tax paper money and supplements the wages. It is corporate welfare. If it wasn`t for the government these people wouldn`t be able to take these jobs at these rates because they wouldn`t be able to survive.

    Out of curiosity what do you do for a living that is so vital, valuable, and irreplaceable that allows you to jump into every fight to s.hit on the opportunity of millions of people to work provide a service and survive on that work?
  21. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:33 pm
    This argument is just POINTLESS. There is no legitimate argument against it no matter how many charts you learned in econ 101 or how many articles you read from the Koch brothers.

    I already ran the math before and showed that if McDonalds raised every employee to $15 an hour the price of an average meal would go up 7 cents.

    We know that the minimum wage could be increased and companies like walmart and mcdonalds would be JUST fine. Then the government could take all the money it pays in welfare to the employees of large corporations and subsidize the wages of small businesses that legitimately may have trouble paying a higher minimum wage.

    More people with disposable income is good for everyone in the economy.

    The idea that there is this huge group of minimum wage workers that are going to lose their jobs because it is the magic point where automation is cheaper is just retarded.
  22. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:42 pm
    "Wundt, learn some economics."

    No offense Andrew, but I think it`s a bit hypocritical to tell someone to go learn some economics when your level seems to be of someone who has either read up about it a bit on the net or taken some introductory classes. You seem to have some grasp of introductory theoretical concepts, but many of them are being incorrectly or incompletely applied in your arguments.

    As for that graph that you post EVERY TIME, honestly man, I think it`s time to remove it from your favorites. I remember that graph from econ 101, and even at the time I think a caveat was included in the lecture that this had very little real world application and was to take with a large grain of salt.

    Also as for your oversimplified demonstration of how wage changes would effect prices, you do realize that not everyone gets minimum wage and that therefore your explanation would not be applicable?
  23. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 4:43 pm
    Crakr

    "Baloney. $100 in 1980 dollars = $285 today.
    That`s nearly a 300% increase. Minimum wages have kept pace with that inflation as well, from $3.10 to $8.25. "

    They probably would really appreciate $8.25 an hour. That would be around $2,000 a year more than they make now.

    Minimum wage is $7.25 NOT $8.25.

    $100 x 2.85 = $285

    $3.10 x 2.85 = $8.84

    So current minimum wage is $1.59 an hour UNDER inflation.

    That is $3,180 a year LESS than if it had kept up with inflation.

    Wish you guys could do simple math. Might make these debates easier.

    So take your "baloney" and shove it you know where.
  24. Profile photo of piratefish
    piratefish Male 40-49
    675 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 5:03 pm
    Good for the owners (and the employees), I hope they do well.

    Also, as a side note, I remember my days as a 15 and 16 year old kid and the first two jobs I worked - both fast food establishments. They were tough, dirty, thankless jobs that had me busting my ass and being treated like dirt by just about everyone. And minimum wage back then was only $3.35/hour.

    Contrast that with my most recent position as financial controller for a medium-sized company, and I have things much easier (I`m compensated almost absurdly better, and people treat me with deference and respect). True, I have a graduate degree and a number of years experience, it`s a pretty cushy gig.

    I feel pretty bad for fast food workers. With the scarcity of good paying jobs today (especially since 2008), many have little other choice, and it`s a pretty crappy experience for the low pay and practically nonexistent benefits.
  25. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3878 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 5:05 pm
    Good for them! Let`s hope everyone else takes notice and follows in the footsteps of giants.
  26. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 5:12 pm
    @Crakr:
    To add to what HG said, here is a link to a Congressional fact sheet where you`ll clearly see that the real value of minimum wage and also minimum wage as a % of average earnings in the private sector have decreased since 1980.
  27. Profile photo of ForSquirel
    ForSquirel Male 30-39
    2158 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 5:36 pm
    ridiculous
  28. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 6:13 pm
    HG: "Minimum wage is $7.25 NOT $8.25."

    In my state, Illinois, IT IS $8.25.

    So current minimum wage in my state is close to the rate of inflation.

    Wish you wouldn`t assume that minimum wage is identical across the country. Might make these debates easier.
  29. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6164 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 6:18 pm
    HolyGod-Who do you want to work at McDonalds at 11am on a Tuesday?
    College kids. High School kids 18 years old.

    HolyGod-Who do you expect to work at McDonalds the rest of the time?
    College kids. High School kids 18 years old and those over 20 who have no marketable job skills.

    HolyGod -There is no legitimate argument against it
    The fact that some individuals` contribution to the job do not warrent $15 an hours is a legitmiate argument against it. (quite frankly, the only reason some people aren`t paid what their work is worth is because it`s against the law to pay less than minimum wage)
  30. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 6:19 pm
    xayroche: If that was truly a "Congressional fact sheet", why was it hosted on the Federation of American Scientists website?

    The CBO is traditionally what congress relies on for it`s budgeting facts, not the FAS.
  31. Profile photo of Daegog
    Daegog Male 30-39
    1359 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 6:31 pm
    forbes says that mcdonalds could give every employee a raise to at least 10 dollars an hour by increasing the cost of ONLY cheeseburgers by 10 cents.

    Better to keep everyone in abject poverty for the sake of business tho i guess.
  32. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 6:40 pm
    @Crakr: It was a fact sheet created by the Congressional Research Service. Hence I think it is correct to call it a Congressional fact sheet. I`m very confused as to why you give relevance to what site is hosting the file, as long as it is a legitimate site.
  33. Profile photo of lukeforv123
    lukeforv123 Male 18-29
    1058 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:14 pm
    That`s rad, I got a friggin` M.A. and am an adjunct college instructor making $10.90 an hour. Stay in school!
  34. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:30 pm
    MeGrendel

    "College kids. High School kids 18 years old and those over 20 who have no marketable job skills."

    Obviously there aren`t enough high school and college kids available and willing to work all the minimum wage jobs that need filled.

    So that leaves a huge percentage to be filled by "those over 20 who have no marketable job skills". So those people aren`t deserving of a reasonable life? Their contribution to society is meaningless? F.uck em because they can`t write computer software? Is there no honor in going to work and doing your job and doing a good job no matter what that job is? Does that not benefit society? Is that not worthy of reasonable compensation?

    We know that minimum wage jobs do not pay a living wage. We know there are too many minimum wage jobs to be filled by college and high school kids. So? We just expect a slave class of people who work for an amount less than what it takes to survive?
  35. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:34 pm
    Crakr

    "In my state, Illinois, IT IS $8.25.

    So current minimum wage in my state is close to the rate of inflation."

    So we are having a debate about raising the federal minimum wage on a post about the wages at a restaurant in Michigan and the number we should be using as a baseline is Illinois` minimum wage because that is where you happen to be sitting? My bad.
  36. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:41 pm
    HG: "Obviously there aren`t enough high school and college kids available and willing..."

    The keyword there is willing. Way to many of our youth think they are too special for menial labor. Our society has spoiled them rotten and reality hasn`t slapped them in the face yet.

    "those over 20 who have no marketable job skills"

    In other words, losers. Older versions of the spoiled kids above that dropped out of college and are now learning what real life is.

    "We just expect a slave class of people..."

    No, If you work hard, even if you started out awful, you can build a good work history and eventually earn higher pay. I can give you a multitude of examples, of individuals, if you like.
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:43 pm
    HG: "..a post about the wages at a restaurant in Michigan"

    Michigan`s minimum wage is $7.40, not $7.25, so you`re wrong on both counts.
  38. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    Andrew - take that chart and shove it up your a$$.

    You`ve posted the same stupid fu*king graph over and over.

    Maybe, just maybe...(almost certianly {and by alomst...I mean absolutely} no one gives a F about your chart.)

    When you the hear the cries for an opinions from the stupidest generation ever, it`s your time to chime in. When that time comes...
    TRY to post a comment that doesn`t make you sound like a bitchy mother talking down to the rest of IAB.

    (_)_)====D
  39. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 8:57 pm
    HG: "..an amount less than what it takes to survive?"

    8.25 x 40 = 330 x 4 weeks = $1320, before taxes, per month, approx.

    Rent, for a very nice apartment = $600
    Food = $300
    Electric = $100
    Cable TV = $69
    Gas, Insurance & misc = $100

    Total $1169

    That`s better than "survival" and certainly not "slavery".
  40. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 9:06 pm
    Crakr

    "The keyword there is willing. Way to many of our youth think they are too special for menial labor."

    Maybe they would be willing if society valued the work instead of s.hitting all over it in debates like this and calling the people that do this work "losers".

    I also find it funny that you are b.itching about people who think they are too good for menial labor when you yourself have said you are too good for customer support jobs you could do from home so you`d rather sit on your ass and collect a check from the government.

  41. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 9:14 pm
    Crakr

    Rent, for a very nice apartment = $600
    Food = $300
    Electric = $100
    Cable TV = $69
    Gas, Insurance & misc = $100

    Certainly different places are different. You can`t get an apartment for $600 in my city and I guarantee you can`t in NY.

    $300 a month in food? $10 a day? $3 a meal. What kind of nutrition do you expect someone to get on $3 a meal?

    You forget water, gas, car payments, health insurance, phone, etc.

    Plus taxes are taken out, which you said. There is no wiggle room. No room to invest. No room to pay for school. No room to work towards a better life. No way to live.

    I just don`t know why you advocate for people to live like that when nobody has to.



  42. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 9:19 pm
    McDonalds raised its CEO`s pay by $9.7 Million last year.

    That`s enough to take 1,800 full time minimum wage employees from $7.25/hr to $10/hr.

    So why is it that McDonalds can handle that increase in labor costs without raising prices or firing people, but when it comes to labor increases that affect the people at the bottom it will surely cause catastrophe in some of your eyes?
  43. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 10:35 pm
    @ Turdburglar: You made me laugh, but you`re way, way beyond the pales of civil discourse there. If everyone put up posts like yours, we`d have to call out the riot police. Kindly take it down a notch. Thank you.
  44. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 11:52 pm
    What schitthole little backwards town do you live in Crakr?

    And do you get your water, sewer, trash, medical care, transportation, etc. for free there?
    Or is that all encompassed in what`s left over from the $100 for misc you listed?
    I doubt it.

    It takes AT LEAST twice that amount to live where an actual civilization exists.
    Less than $16,000 a year in income is BARELY survival and certainly under the poverty level in this nation for a single parent.

    But sociopaths such as yourself don`t truly give a phuque about anyone else.
    As long as you got yours, Right?

    You have a whole where you soul should be.
  45. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    April 14, 2014 at 11:54 pm
    Oh, and just a point. I work minimum wage jobs. I had to, I had to find jobs to support me and the children which fitted in with school and childcare despite being educated etc.. I work (ed) from 8 in the morning to midnight with time in between to fetch children, feed children etc then back out the door. In the UK I could get help with the rent etc, but that would not have been the case elsewhere. I am not alone, I was left by a high earner who refused to pay for his children, and many very low paid jobs are filled by people like me... people who need work- and cannot afford to be fussy- and people like me need work more than a kid at home with parents.
  46. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 4:31 am
    So I see all of you complaining that minimum wage is not high enough to pay for life, etc. etc.

    Maybe the pay isn`t the problem. Maybe it`s the costs.

    More specifically, the value of the dollar, which has hit the bottom of the barrel.

    Minimum wage has risen $3 since 1995, but the dollar has only gained $0.37 value in the same period.

    Fix the dollar. Fix the economy, and people won`t NEED more money.

    Throwing money at the issue is a band-aid, not a cure.
  47. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3878 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 4:57 am
    Another part of the problem is the corruption of capitalism here in the States. Does MCD`s have to pay it`s CEO millions of dollars? To keep his talent on board and not jumping ship yes. The system currently can`t weed out greed. That guys job is more difficult but does it deserve a wage 500 times that of the lowest employee? It`s like this for all nearly all Major Corporations. It`s morally and ethically wrong. I`m not saying I know a solution but what I do know is the system is rigged for those that have all the wealth. There needs to be a way to force a trickledown.
  48. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 5:25 am
    Oh for Gods sake- Capitalism is broken, it doesn`t bloody work, how far do we have to go to prove the point? More and more we can see it is rubbish, we need something which does not allow most of the money to drift up not down.
  49. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 5:47 am
    That more than most garbage men/women make. Tell me which do you think is harder and more valuable? See a flaw with this logic? If the only thing you`re qualified to do is work at a fast food place and you think you deserve $15 an hour for that perhaps the system isn`t broken maybe you are.
  50. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 5:57 am
    "There needs to be a way to force a trickledown."

    There is. Reagan tried it. It`s called massive deregulation. Let the chips fall. Everybody (EVERYBODY) made more money in America during this time, but the liberals didn`t think it was fair so they cut its balls off.
  51. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 5:58 am
    "Capitalism is broken, it doesn`t bloody work"

    Capitalism works fine. People don`t work, literally.
  52. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:01 am
    That more than most garbage men/women make. Tell me which do you think is harder and more valuable? See a flaw with this logic? If the only thing you`re qualified to do is work at a fast food place and you think you deserve $15 an hour for that perhaps the system isn`t broken maybe you are.

    You`re an idiot. Wages do not only have to do with how hard or valuable a job is, and besides that, difficulty and value from a certain job is subjective anyway. In this particular case - if you read the article - you would realize that the owners are concerned about good customer service. Paying $15/hr to ensure that their employees actually care about their job has proven to be a good business strategy. There is so much more to running a business than the simplistic way you view it.
  53. Profile photo of Jerm_Leather
    Jerm_Leather Male 18-29
    897 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:24 am
    Perpetuation of a `slave class` is intentional. Why would those with exorbitant amounts of wealth and/or power Ever want to give the majority of a country`s citizens the means to seek a better life when those in power know that it`s our hopelessness and constant struggle that keeps us from changing the way things are run. A frightened and overwhelmed public is much less likely to cause a revolution if they have no time to actually consider how fu(ked they are. Don`t bother arguing that hard work and education are a guarantee at a better life because it clearly isn`t. Why don`t you check out how many college educated people work crap-tastic minimum wage jobs because they simply have no other choice if they want to survive. It`s people like the owner of this restaurant that actually offer hope for change to those that see no way out of poverty.
  54. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:32 am
    You`re an idiot.

    Coming from someone who thinks Mcdonalds workers deserve $15 an hour I consider that a compliment. So you raise the min wage to $15 an hour then what do you do for the people that hold a skilled job that you just slapped in the face? Or do you just want it for fast food workers cause that makes so much sense?

    Paying $15/hr to ensure that their employees actually care about their job has proven to be a good business strategy. There is so much more to running a business than the simplistic way you view it.

    Now how many business do you run again? Funny thing is this place is new we don`t know if it works yet.


    I can see by your age your an entitlement baby but the problem is you can whine all you want for $15 an hour if you don`t make yourself worth a f**k your wage will show that.
  55. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:39 am
    @Jerm_Leather

    Why don`t you go to a fast food place and ask who holds a degree or trade skill? I bet it`d be a lot different than what you`re preaching. Put the Che shirt away.
  56. Profile photo of Jerm_Leather
    Jerm_Leather Male 18-29
    897 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:58 am
    McGovern:
    I don`t wear a `Che Shirt`, but I Am not so closed minded to assume that the distribution of wealth in this country is even remotely designed to do anything other than keep the poor poor while the rich continue to prosper. You don`t have to do more than a brief google search to find evidence of what I stated below:
    Huffpost article from 2013
    Us News Article from a few months ago
    NBC News article from 2012
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:58 am
    HG: "you yourself have said you are too good for customer support jobs..."

    LIBEL & calumny Sir!

    You`ve made this false allegation before and Although I`ve detailed exactly why I cannot work, you`ve continued with this lie far enough.

    I want an apology and I want it ASAP.

    "You can`t get an apartment for $600 in my city and I guarantee you can`t in NY."

    True, but people working those same jobs in larger cities get paid much more than just minimum wage. They have to pay higher wages in larger cities, or they`d have no employees at all.

    "That`s enough to take 1,800 full time minimum wage employees from $7.25/hr to $10/hr."

    Considering that McDonalds has hundreds of thousands of employees in the US alone, to be fairly spread out, their raise would be less a penny per employee.
  58. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6164 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 7:51 am
    HolyGod-We know that minimum wage jobs do not pay a living wage.
    We also know that minimum wage was NEVER MEANT to be a living wage.

    If you `want` to earn a living wage, you`re expected to work for it. That does not mean flipping burgers.

    HolyGod-Maybe they would be willing if society valued the work
    It`s not up to society to `value` their work. It`s up to THEM to perform work that is worth value.

    madduck-Capitalism is broken, it doesn`t bloody work
    Opinion, not supported by the facts. So far it`s been more successful than anything else that has been attempted.

    Jerm_Leather-how many college educated people work crap-tastic minimum wage jobs because
    because that PhD in Aboriginal Macrame Pot Holder Making doesn`t translate into a marketable job skill? What a shock.
  59. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 7:55 am
    So you raise the min wage to $15 an hour then what do you do for the people that hold a skilled job that you just slapped in the face?

    ah, thats what this is about. Youre afraid to make the same as someone working for a job that you feel is below you. You see I dont think any job is below anyone & once you see it like that you wont have this inferiority complex
    Now how many business do you run again?Funny thing is this place is new we dont know if it works yet.It has been working well so far. They designed the business to work on paying their employees 12/hr in the first placeI can see by your age your an entitlement baby but the problem is you can whine all you want for $15/hr if you dont make yourself worth a f**k your wage will show that

    I make very good money. This has nothing to do with feeling *I* deserve 15/hr.I just dont think people doing jobs you feel you are above dont deserve to be able to live normally
  60. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 8:20 am
    We also know that minimum wage was NEVER MEANT to be a living wage.

    If the minimum wage was REALLY "never meant to be a living wage," then why
    did FDR, the president who signed it into law in 1938, say "No business
    which depends for existence on paying *less than living wages* to its
    workers has any right to continue in this country... By living wages, I
    mean more than the bare subsistence level - I mean the wages of a decent
    living." - Franklin D. Roosevelt
  61. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 8:50 am
    Crakr

    "LIBEL & calumny Sir!"

    Bulls.hit. It is not.

    I sent you a link to a company that specializes in work from home customer service jobs for disabled people. It requires no physical activity whatsoever. They had articles about people with horribly debilitating diseases being able to work for them.

    You said, point blank, working phone service sucks and you didn`t want to.

    There is absolutely no way whatsoever I believe you are so disabled that you can`t work a phone and a computer part time for a company that specializes in catering to the abilities of its disabled employees.

    Man up and apply and get off the government teat you hate so much.
  62. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 8:55 am
    MeGrendel

    "If you `want` to earn a living wage, you`re expected to work for it. That does not mean flipping burgers."

    Why is flipping burgers not work? Do you know how much of an a.sshole that makes you sound? Not everyone is smart. Not everyone can go to college. Sometimes menial labor is the best people can do. If they are working full time providing a service to society instead of sitting on welfare that IS WORK.

    "It`s up to THEM to perform work that is worth value."

    It is worth value. I value it more than I value what you do. What you do has no affect on my life whatsoever. I got a burger last night because I was hungry and it tasted good and then I wasn`t hungry. WHY does that have no value?

  63. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 8:58 am
    McGovern1981

    "That more than most garbage men/women make. Tell me which do you think is harder and more valuable?"

    Flipping burgers.

    If I had to pick one to work I`d go with garbage man. I don`t know about in your area, but in mine they drive around neighborhoods stopping at every can and a mechanical arm comes out and lifts the can up and dumps it and puts it back. Then they drive to the next one. They never get out of their vehicle. How is driving and pushing a button harder than flipping a burger?
  64. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 9:01 am
    skullgrin

    "If the minimum wage was REALLY "never meant to be a living wage," then why
    did FDR, the president who signed it into law in 1938, say "No business
    which depends for existence on paying *less than living wages* to its
    workers has any right to continue in this country... By living wages, I
    mean more than the bare subsistence level - I mean the wages of a decent
    living." - Franklin D. Roosevelt"

    Holy s.hit. BURN.

    What say you megrendel?
  65. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 9:12 am
    AuburnJunky

    "There is. Reagan tried it. It`s called massive deregulation. Let the chips fall. Everybody (EVERYBODY) made more money in America during this time"

    Take a look at this chart:

    Income Inequality

    See how the ratio is flat for 30 years and then it starts skyrocketing right around the early 80s?

    THAT is why "liberals" have a problem with some of the things Reagan did.
  66. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 9:44 am
    HolyGod you`re making very valid points, but the problem is people feel certain jobs are below them. Like the guy who wont do customer service. If I was unemployed I would take whatever job I could find. Too many people against min wage going up because it will make what they do seem less prestigious as well.
  67. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 10:04 am
    @skullgrin

    Ahh that`s not what this is about I`m a systems engineer that is more than $15 an hr last time I checked. It`s about entitlement making a useless generation who think they should be supported without any effort to better themselves. Will you raise just fast food workers wage or all either way it will accomplish nothing.
  68. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 10:09 am
    They never get out of their vehicle. How is driving and pushing a button harder than flipping a burger?

    That garbage truck pretty sure that requires a special license a skill you have to work for. Not a job intended for high school students to work part time. It also involves more than driving a truck and pushing a button the whole working with human waste part too. I bet you`d sing a different tune after doing it.
  69. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 11:50 am
    McGovern1981

    "It`s about entitlement making a useless generation who think they should be supported without any effort to better themselves."

    Do you guys live someplace where these jobs are just done by young people? When I go to Walmart or McDonalds almost all the employees I see are in their 30s and 40s.

    Maybe it is because you guys have day jobs. I go to those places in the middle of the day when kids are in school and those places are manned by adults.
  70. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 12:02 pm
    HG: "Man up and apply and get off the government teat you hate so much."

    I thought as much. You`re a Grade AAA unrepentant Assh0le. You make spurious and false claims, not only about me, but about nearly everything.

    You are the lowest form of life on earth. No better than the assh0les that walk by a homeless person and say, "Get a Job".

    Well Sir, I had a career, not just a "job", until it was taken from me by disability. You`ve never walked a mile in my shoes and I hope you never have to.

    But just to make it clear, to others that don`t know. I`m home bound, have daily home nurses, have been hospitalized 3 times in the last 18 months with lengthy nursing home care afterwards. Even if I got a job blowing into a straw, I wouldn`t be able to keep it.

    So Sincerely, I mean this, Go blow the bullsh|t out from between your ears, then "Man up" and apologize. Until then, you`re no better than pond scum.
  71. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 12:27 pm
    Crakr

    "assh0les that walk by a homeless person and say, "Get a Job"."

    I never do that. In fact I carry around bags in my car with non-perishable food and water bottles for them.

    I have ZERO problem with you being on government handouts. My problem is how you use it while B.ITCHING about it out the other side of your mouth.

    It would be like if a panhandler went to the library and got online to complain about panhandlers.

    THAT is my problem.

    "I`m home bound, have daily home nurses, have been hospitalized 3 times in the last 18 months with lengthy nursing home care afterwards."

    That sucks and you have my sympathy.

    "Even if I got a job blowing into a straw, I wouldn`t be able to keep it."

    BULLS.HIT. Seriously. BULLS.HIT.

    If you can spend as much time on IAB as you do you could work a part time that job requires the same exact physical capabilities.
  72. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 12:41 pm
    Crakr

    Stephen Hawking has a job. You more disabled than him?

    I already told you about my cousin. He got in a motor cycle accident and he is paralyzed from the waist down with chronic pain issues he requires bi-weekly shots for.

    He got an at home job doing tech support through instant messager for 3-4 hours a day. On days that he can`t manage he doesn`t have to.

    He is also taking an online training course to learn programming.

    Here

    Here

    Again, if you want to live off disability be my guest.

    Just shut the f.uck about about "losers" that actually have a job and contribute to society, the "government" that takes care of you.
  73. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 12:54 pm
    You mean paying people a livable wage is do-able?!! You mean the company didn`t shut down under the weight of the employee`s getting what they deserved?!

    Republicans must be outraged!
  74. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:30 pm
    I just wanted to add something after reading quite a few of these posts referencing how fast food work was obviously only meant for students and people who don`t want to better themselves.

    Out of curiosity I checked the McDonalds career website. Clearly the website does not hint that an average job shouldn`t be enough to subsist on or is only meant for students wanting to have a little pocket money.

    Even though I have been lucky enough to have been presented with the opportunity to acquire quite a few degrees, language skills, and a fair amount of work experience, I don`t think that this justifies me making such a radically different salary than another human being.

    I don`t think I am overpaid. Rather I think many are underpaid. I don`t think that there is any justification for someone who works full time in any job and doesn`t dilapid
  75. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 6:36 pm
    (cont) doesn`t dilapidate their money to live in poverty. The old American dream was that any hard working person, even an unskilled laborer could afford a car, a television, a house etc. Many people are now working two minimum wage jobs just to survive.
  76. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 7:27 pm
    HG: "I never do that."

    Bullsh|t, you just basically did it to me. And you resort to this libel routinely, when you`re loosing the argument.

    "I have ZERO problem with you being on government handouts."

    More Bullsh|t. or you wouldn`t have stated, "Man up and apply and get off the government teat...". You hate the fact that I`m conservative and getting Social Security. In your mind I should be singing Obama`s praises and begging for more handouts.

    "If you can spend as much time on IAB as you do you could work a part time that job."

    Even More Bullsh|t. I can barely tolerate sitting for 30 mins. at a time and spend maybe 3 hours a week perusing IAB.

    "That sucks and you have my sympathy."

    That`s hollow sympathy without an apology for your prior false comments.
  77. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 7:37 pm
    "Stephen Hawking has a job."

    I knew you`d throw that example up. Let me bat that out of the park. Hawking has a PHD, has written over a dozen books and was a university professor BEFORE becoming disabled. He has constant care and a lot of support personnel around him.

    "...shut the f.uck about about "losers" that actually have a job..."

    I made something of my life, put myself through college, had a career. These kids these days expect top dollar pay, with virtually no job experience and no marketable college education.

    "..the "government" that takes care of you..", doesn`t own my mind, politics or ethics and never will.

    I know that irks the sh|t out of you, that`s too damn bad. You can`t shut me up and it`s bullsh|t that you use personal attacks on me in the attempt to do so.
  78. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 8:30 pm
    Crakr

    " I can barely tolerate sitting for 30 mins. at a time and spend maybe 3 hours a week perusing IAB."

    Holy s.hit man. MAYBE now. Back during the election, or the government shutdown we went back and forth on a number of posts for hours on end.

    "I made something of my life"

    According to you maybe. Wouldn`t it piss you off if I called you a "loser" because you didn`t make six figures or own your own business like me? Just like it would piss me off if some billionaire called me a loser. SO why call some person who works their ass off a "loser"? Sorry if that pisses me off, but it does. If you go to work 8 hours a day doing a good job for a company that makes billions of dollars off the labor you and those like you provide you shouldn`t need food stamps to survive.

    I would THINK someone in your position could pass along a little dignity to people like that instead of s.hitting on them.
  79. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 10:27 pm
    HG: "Wouldn`t it piss you off if I called you a "loser"..."

    You basically have called me a loser, with your libel. Does that really piss me off? No, because I don`t respect your opinion anyway.

    "why call some person who works their ass off a "loser"?"

    IF, and that`s a big IF, these kids actually worked their ass off, which most don`t, they wouldn`t be losers. Most have this erroneous feeling of entitlement, that they are better than their parents, in other words, know-it-all brats.

    "If you go to work 8 hours a day doing a good job for a company that makes billions of dollars off the labor you...provide"

    Straight out of the class warfare socialist playbook. What if your employees got together and accused you of being evil because you made millions of dollars off of their labor?
  80. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 10:31 pm
    "pass along a little dignity to people..."

    Respect is earned, higher pay is earned with hard work, only a very few get a free ride to the top of the heap. Those few that do inherit their wealth, instead of work for it, you`d proclaim are leeches on society.
  81. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 11:31 pm
    Crakr

    "libel"

    I don`t think that word means what you think. I haven`t said anything about you that wasn`t true, at least in my opinion.

    "IF, and that`s a big IF, these kids actually worked their ass off"

    What kids? I`m talking about the 45 year old woman doing checkout at walmart because she was a stay at home mom her whole life and her husband just left her. I`m talking about the 36 year old guy with a business degree at mcdonlads who got downsized when the economy got bad.

    Not everyone who works these jobs is some punk ass kids. Sometimes these jobs are the last rung of survival for people.

    "What if your employees got together and accused you of being evil because you made millions of dollars off of their labor?"

    I make 25 cents on the dollar I pay my employees.

    What do you think walmart makes?
  82. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 15, 2014 at 11:46 pm
    Crakr

    "Respect is earned, higher pay is earned with hard work, only a very few get a free ride to the top of the heap."

    We can only respect those that make lots of money? You have to be at the top of the heap to earn respect?

    When I worked in an office building I used to work late all the time. The cleaning crew would come through. I called them "ma`am" and "sir" and said "thank you" when they took my trash. I made probably 6 or 7 times what they did. It doesn`t mean I couldn`t show them respect.
  83. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 1:51 am
    HG: "What kids?" Are you seriously trying to twist this around yet again? I clearly referenced "kids" earlier, meaning those 18 to 25, and now you want to say I`m calling middle aged people that?

    You just can`t help yourself from skewing and obfuscating can you?

    Wal-Mart`s CEO Mike Duke`s pay was $23.2 million in 2012 and there are over 2 million employees making at least $8.49/hr about $17,000,000/hr payroll. Even if 90% of them only worked 20 hours a week, that`s about $400,000,000 per week. Times 52 weeks is 20,800,000,000.

    20 billion dollars payroll vs. 23 million CEO Salary. Yeah, I think the math here proves Mike Duke`s salary is far far less than the 25 cents on the dollar you make.
  84. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3878 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 4:46 am
    Crakr I pray to god that you and your ilk are one a dying breed of ignorant, illogical thinkers. You are free to think and believe what you want but you should have no part in reaping the rewards of any human progress that conflicts with what you believe.
  85. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 8:11 am
    "...you should have no part in reaping the rewards of any human progress that conflicts with what you believe."

    I believe "human progress" starts with raising children with good values and ethics, not letting the TV and smartphones cloud their brains and judgement. Society is falling into a cess pit, that`s not progress, that`s called degradation.
  86. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 8:32 am
    Crakr

    "Are you seriously trying to twist this around yet again?"

    Wait. SO you think adults working these jobs SHOULD make a minimum wage, but kids shouldn`t necessarily?

    If so, we are on the same page.

    I think there should be a living wage minimum and then a lower exception wage for those 16-25 who are in school full time.

    However I jumped on you when you said people over 20 working these jobs are "losers".

    "Yeah, I think the math here proves Mike Duke`s salary is far far less than the 25 cents on the dollar you make."

    By "I" I meant my company, figure out what walmart makes for every dollar it pays its employees, not 1 guy at walmart. That was just absurdly retarded.
  87. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 8:34 am
    Crakr

    "I believe "human progress" starts with raising children with good values and ethics, not letting the TV and smartphones cloud their brains and judgement."

    Don`t bring your imaginary friends into this. This is a serious discussion. Society is much better off now than it was in the 50s and 60s and if you don`t think so it is because you are a racist, misogynistic, crotchety, bitter old f.uck.
  88. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 2:54 pm
    HG: "Don`t bring your imaginary friends into this."

    I didn`t mention God, The Bible, 10 commandments, Jesus or anything religious in my previous statement. So quit faking outrage.

    "Society is much better off now than it was in the 50s and 60s.."

    The divorce rate was lower, abortions were few, men were held to account for fathering children. There was a thriving middle class, children behaved and showed respect to their elders and police. Housing was affordable, there were much fewer prison inmates, better education, fewer homeless and less illicit drug use.

    Sure, there were things that weren`t great such as racism and segregation, but despite those issues blacks and other minorities were better off financially, had higher employment and less criminality than there is now.
  89. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 2:56 pm
    I can support all these statements with facts. And if you don`t think so, then you are a history denying, hyperbolic, vapid, perfidious, liberal socialist that yells "Racist" and "Sexist" every time they are losing an argument.
  90. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 3:36 pm
    Crakr

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    I`m so glad you are on this site. You are a constant source of amusement.
  91. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 16, 2014 at 6:40 pm
    HG: "You are a constant source of amusement."

    "..I`m funny how, I mean funny like I`m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I`m here to dratin` amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?"

    Careful who you troll and try to toy with. I`m not here to amuse you. But at least you`ve finally admitted you`re a troll, here for laughs.

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