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Date: 03/05/14 01:12 PM

183 Responses to Inside This Circle [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 1:12 pm
    Link: Inside This Circle - This small insignificant circle.
  2. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 1:24 pm
    I understand you`re atheist. Good for you.

    However, this is the most trolliest, obsessive, nonsensical, ad hominem, and logically unsound post I have seen in some time condemning Christianity.

    I am sorry that Christianity has you so butt-hurt. Maybe you should seek therapy to get over it.

    I really spend 0% of my time trying to convert people of different views and religions. I am just comfortable in my own beliefs, and go about life. I recommend you do the same - it will make you much more pleasant and thus happier in life.
  3. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 1:25 pm
    (I do realize this includes all Judeao-Christian religions, however, I can only speak as a Christian.)
  4. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 1:54 pm
    This is the very opposite of ad hominem, elkingo. And you know why Christians get some people butt-hurt? Because *some* of them try to write their religious beliefs into laws that effect ALL of us. You don`t like homosexuals getting married? Don`t marry a homosexual. You want to pray to God? You are free to do so anywhere you`d like (including, yes, school--you just can`t force others to do it). You want to have church meetings? You`re allowed! And that right is protected by law. But why force the rest of us to live like you want to? (not *you* as in you, elkingo, but the "you" that is the people who do this). Laws that guarantee equality for all are an attack on religion.
  5. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 1:56 pm
    As for this post? I think it`s wonderful! :-)
  6. Profile photo of beternal
    beternal Male 18-29
    2589 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:01 pm
    God just maked stars to give us something to look at. We`re still the centre of the universe :-
    )
  7. Profile photo of xCANDACEx
    xCANDACEx Female 30-39
    283 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:02 pm
    makes a good point
  8. Profile photo of elderban99
    elderban99 Male 40-49
    180 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:03 pm
    @Elkingo: Thats funny because, as someone who questions the existence of a god or gods, I say the same exact thing when Christians or Jews or Muslims or <insert any fork of any religion here> comes to my door trying to convert me to their belief system.

    And, no, I`m not an Atheist, because Atheism is a religion too.
  9. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2353 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:03 pm
    None of this matters anyways since most everything is practically empty space. Here`s one for the sages...how is consciousness formed from mostly empty space. Got to keep the loonies off the grass.
  10. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:16 pm
    elkingo

    "I am sorry that Christianity has you so butt-hurt. Maybe you should seek therapy to get over it.

    I really spend 0% of my time trying to convert people of different views and religions. I am just comfortable in my own beliefs, and go about life. I recommend you do the same - it will make you much more pleasant and thus happier in life."

    That IS what I do. I believe that if you believe the bible you are a f.ucking moron. That is MY belief. I`m sorry that has you so butt-hurt. Maybe you should seek knowledge to get over it.
  11. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:26 pm
    BTW, just to be open minded, this doesn`t in any way disprove god to me.

    If god existed and is eternal, time is meaningless. The 5 billion years of earth`s existence could feel like an afternoon to him, relatively speaking.

    Building a massive universe and then only putting people in Mesopotamia could be like planting an apple seed in an empty field and waiting until you had an orchard. Look what humans have done in the last 100 years. You don`t think we`ll be exploring the deep observable universe in a million years? Assuming we don`t kill ourselves.

    Or perhaps he planted that seeds on thousands of planets and then he sits back and watches a real life game of Risk.
  12. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:44 pm
    Picture 1: God created all of this.
    Picture 2: God created all of this.

    Repeat as necessary.

    No, I`m not a `Creationist` I`m a Deist, so there!
  13. Profile photo of FredSpudman
    FredSpudman Male 18-29
    653 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:47 pm
    I haven`t read the Koran, not being able to read Arabic and all, but I`d imagine that it says Allah created the universe, not just the Middle East.
  14. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:48 pm
    @onoffonoff: Matter is mostly "empty space" too, yet you have consciousness... I`m assuming you`re made of matter, eh?

    God existed before space existed, in theory.

    God came from the darkness, btw. I recently figured this out. Think about it...
  15. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2340 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 2:49 pm
    Adopting religion is like believing the contents of Marvel comics are accurate historical recountings of actual events.

    Do that, if you wish, but you`ve got no business getting offended when people laugh at you.
  16. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:09 pm
    SmagBoy1 -

    I support gay marriage 100%.

    I don`t want to force others to pray.. to any god, even my God.

    I don`t attend church.

    I haven`t tried to force anyone to believe as I do.


    Isn`t everything you just said about Christianity a good form of bigotry and discrimination? Oh wait, no.. that is what you are lumping all Christians into doing.
  17. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:10 pm
    elderban99 - I get the same wackos trying to convert me.

    I also have people advocate agnosticism and atheism to me as well.

    Funny how people in general (not just a specific religion) do that, huh? =)
  18. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:13 pm
    "That IS what I do. I believe that if you believe the bible you are a f.ucking moron. That is MY belief. I`m sorry that has you so butt-hurt. Maybe you should seek knowledge to get over it."

    Honestly, I don`t mind what you believe, and would love to hear about it somewhat more than just profainity and insults some time. I find all beliefs (or lack of belief) interesting. In fact, I study different religions and faiths and absence of faith and religion and its impact on society as a whole, and additionally the impact on the individual, both philosophically and psychologically. So yeah.. not sure why you think it bothers me, but it doesn`t.

  19. Profile photo of Rodin
    Rodin Male 30-39
    720 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:14 pm
    @HolyGod:

    You obviously don`t know anything about planting apple orchards.
  20. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:17 pm
    Shouldn`t the first cylinder be a sphere?
  21. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:39 pm
    No it didn`t, fool !!
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    Rodin

    "You obviously don`t know anything about planting apple orchards."

    Huh? I know a seed makes an apple tree. I know an apple tree makes more seeds. Repeat as necessary. With enough time and under the right conditions one seed could turn into an orchard. Don`t know what it is that you think you know.
  23. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:52 pm
    Um, if that was aimed at me, you need to check your grammar and the definition of "Observable Universe"
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36679 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    We`re back to arguing about apples?
  25. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 4:31 pm
    "Atheism is a religion too"

    Just out of interest, which word in this statement do you not know the definition of?
  26. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 4:35 pm
    @Gerry, lol It`s all about the apples. I submitted that documentary that discusses apples, and it showed up in my submission list, but for whatever reason, it never posted on the main page. No one even saw it. Hey, @Kitteh, what`s up with that? It was approved, but didn`t post. When I click on it, it tells me it posted 9/9/9999 11:04:36 AM. What is this madness?!
  27. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:06 pm
    @elkingo,
    I`m an atheist. No "atheist religion" here, I`m just a non-believer. It`s neither my job nor my desire to convert anyone. I also, actually, agree with you. I believe it goes,

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

    Presumably, "the heavens" is the universe so God started big and narrowed down on us.
    Not my belief, you understand, but it`s a poor argument. It`s countered too easily. I wouldn`t say it "condemns" Christianity, though, so much as it insults it.
  28. Profile photo of Rodin
    Rodin Male 30-39
    720 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:11 pm
    HolyGod

    Why aren`t there any wild apple orchards on the planet? The trees that grow the apples we eat are not grown from seed.

    There is one original tree that is selectively bred, and through some random genetics may create an edible apple. Then it`s cloned through grafting. Then planted by immigrant workers to create orchards.

    What type of wild apples are you eating?
  29. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3242 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:14 pm
    @Ani187, the 9/9/9999 just means that it has been approved and will be posted. Given that the title is "I-A-B Midnight Feature ...", it will be posted at IAB`s midnight (PST).
  30. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:25 pm
    @Ani187: That means it`s been "approved" but not fit into a specific spot yet. Like @DuckBoy says.
    I`ve had some submissions show up in my list, but not make it to the front page. It`s a book-keeping thing :-) the Mods use.

    @Rodin: I just recently learned that too! Just like bananas, apple varieties are cloned.

    Still? Apples (unlike bananas) can be spread by seed, eh? Some tree types don`t form "orchards" and co-exist well with other kinds of trees.

    @Broizfam: Atheism is a philosophy, a "belief system" - just like all religions are. Simply changing the names doesn`t make them different, eh?
    Atheism = Way of thinking
    Religion = Way of thinking
    See?
  31. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:26 pm
    I have to agree with HolyGod on this. While I am the biggest anti-religion guy you will meet (and anyone who frequents here knows that without a doubt), this does nothing to disprove God.
  32. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:32 pm
    @Rodin So where did the apple seeds come from to plant the orchards? Clumps of wild apple trees perhaps?

    Something about the seed not falling far from the tree.
  33. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:32 pm
    5Cats:
    "Atheism is a philosophy, a "belief system" - just like all religions are"
    "Atheism = Way of thinking"
    ----
    You keep saying that but it doesn`t make it true. Atheism is not a belief system. It`s a lack of belief in Theism.

    A belief system is something you base your life on. You model your behaviour on it; your life decisions. For us, being Atheist means that we don`t believe in God. However, our belief systems can range from anything like the wild: "Aliens dropped us off here" to the more nihilistic: "we came from nothing and return to nothing". There are thousands of belief systems outside of religion. Atheism is not one of them. It just means, by definition, that we don`t follow your belief system.
  34. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:35 pm
    elkingo
    I support gay marriage 100%.
    I don`t attend church.
    -----
    I`ve got some bad news for you, sunshine. According to your Bible, you are going to Hell. May as well join us now that your screwed anyway...
  35. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:37 pm
    ...in fact, according to the Bible, most every Christian I know is going to Hell.
  36. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:46 pm
    @Duck & 5Cats, see, that`s what I figured, but I was beginning to wonder because it`s been a few days now. I`m not worried about it, just confused.
  37. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:54 pm
    @patchouly - Let my Lord judge me. It is between Him and I.
  38. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 5:56 pm
    @patchouly - I`m not sure which comment you were posting about.. the gay marriage, or the attending a church.

    It if is about gay marriage:

    My God created gay people, and loves them. Why you think I shouldn`t because of organized religion is beyond me.

    If it is about church, I define it differently than a building. I tend to think Christians should simply go forth, show love, and try to help as many people by the grace of God that is possible. That is my church.
  39. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:21 pm
    7 of those slides are really interesting.
  40. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:27 pm
    elkingo

    "My God created gay people, and loves them."

    Leviticus 20:13

    "If a man also lies with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

    So.....

    God made gay people and loves them but thinks they should be put to death?

    Or the bible is not the infallible word of god?

    Those are really the only two choices you have.
  41. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:38 pm
    HolyGod - There are many problems with using the Torah to condemn homosexuality. First off, as Paul states: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. (Galatians 3:13). Meaning, modern Christians do not follow the "Law" of the Torah. Paul said Leviticus is the yoke of slavery, Galatians 5:1.

    Also, that particular verse is somewhat mistranslated: link. In the time Leviticus refers to, a woman`s bed was her own thing.. and for whatever reason the correct translation of the verse should read something along the lines of, "Two men shall not lay in a woman`s bed, it is an abomination." It really isn`t even talking about sexual acts.
  42. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:43 pm
    To further prove my point, see Leviticus 15. It speaks about a woman`s bed, and how if she copulates in a time period, she and her bed becomes "unclean". This was the verses a few chapters ahead of what you are referring to. There is a major issue when people use 1 verse to prove a point. The bible isn`t meant to be taken that way. You have to read the entire book sometimes, or even an entire chapter to get the meaning.

    Leviticus is talking about the importance (culturally) of not defiling a woman`s bed. Has nothing to do with homosexuality. Moreover, it has less to do with modern homosexuality.
  43. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:43 pm
    *behind not ahead. =)
  44. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 6:49 pm
    Haha. Good ending.
  45. Profile photo of LemonCurry
    LemonCurry Male 40-49
    1106 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:01 pm
    beliefs are a great thing ... if it wasn`t for the people believing in them. :-)
  46. Profile photo of Rodin
    Rodin Male 30-39
    720 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:04 pm
    @An-Egg

    The seeds were given to Jack in exchange for a cow.
  47. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:16 pm
    elkingo
    "If it is about church, I define it differently than a building. I tend to think Christians should simply go forth, show love, and try to help as many people by the grace of God that is possible. That is my church."
    -----
    The Bible is pretty specific. You can`t just change things to suit you. You either believe and follow it "to the letter" or you don`t and you abandon it. You can`t have your cake and eat it to.
  48. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36679 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    People read to much into the bibble.

  49. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36679 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    How does Jesus make tea?

    Hebrews it!
  50. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:50 pm
    @broizfam
    I`m kind of a Catholic, but I don`t believe I have ever seen such an enlightened statement. I took it to task on the rotten science. Good job on being an atheist who doesn`t feel they have to convert. I never felt that way either.
  51. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 7:52 pm
    @Rodin
    and how does that explain that the universe is a cylinder?
  52. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 9:08 pm
    Well, this thread degenerated into the verbal melee I thought it would. These type of listings almost always end up in people pointing fingers and trolling one another.

    After coming to the realization that I was "casting pearls before swine" on a routine basis here, on these subjects, I quit commenting on them.

    There are no open minds here at IAB about religion, the sides have become dug in, entrenched.

    My Christian beliefs tell me to not lob bombs at the opposition, I just wish the atheists would learn the same moral lesson.
  53. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 10:14 pm
    @Patchouly: The only thing really required to be a Christian is to worship Jesus Christ.

    There are my different versions of the Bible and most sects of Christianity use a version of the Bible and regard it as their Holy text, but nothing stops someone from calling themselves a Christian while rejecting any current form of the Bible.
  54. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 10:59 pm
    Everything I do in my life, all the food I consume, the long hours at work, they are all just to keep my penis going. The scale is a little off but I get it. It take a lot to keep a little thing going.
  55. Profile photo of ArgusTuft
    ArgusTuft Male 50-59
    1211 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 11:28 pm
    This looks like fun! Can I play too?
  56. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 11:33 pm
    "Why aren`t there any wild apple orchards on the planet?"

    Because an orchard is a man-made area for cultivating fruit, that`s the definition of it.



    As for apple trees not growing in the wild, we used to eat wild crab apples whenever we came across them as kids. They grew in groups of trees.

    A quick look at the apple entry on wiki reveals that "Domestic apples are generally propagated by grafting, although wild apples grow readily from seed."

    So yeah, generally you`re right about them being grafted mostly...but HG is right about apple seeds growing in the wild.
  57. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 5, 2014 at 11:35 pm
    So, back to apples again.... the strongest part of the debate so far. :D
  58. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 12:49 am
    @5Cats,
    Religion is an organized form of worship of God (or gods). Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Quite different. Some atheists do push their agenda like religions do, though.
  59. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 1:20 am
    If the earth was destroyed by a local super-nova type of cataclysm, all of the gods would disappear at the same instant.
    Boom! Bickering ceases.
    I love space; we are all part of it, but our atoms are a bit closer together than those of the atmosphere.
  60. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 1:31 am
    This is utterly stupid. I can`t fathom why any numbskull would believe in a god in this and age.
  61. Profile photo of Johanvb
    Johanvb Male 40-49
    510 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 2:39 am
    Nope.
    Accoriding to Genesis 1:16 "God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also"
    After that God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.
    So his actions clearly occured outside the circle too.

    Also it doesn`t say from where he did this. Besides that according to the bible where three or more gather in His name He wil be there.

    The claim that every single action came from withing the area within the circle is not true.

    in before `but God doesn`t exist haha`. If you try to make a point about a non existing deity, don`t make them with non existing facts.
  62. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 3:57 am
    No, elkingo, once again you have failed to read what I said. I most assuredly did *not* lump all Christians into one bucket. I made pains *not* to do so.
  63. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:05 am
    @patchouly - Once again, let my Lord judge me. It is between Him and I.

    I never claimed that I was perfect.
  64. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:07 am
    @SmagBoy1 - No.. I got that, you did make a good effort. However, those sorts of statements about the others often get blanketed to be inclusive. That`s all.
  65. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:11 am
    Johanvb - "Besides that according to the bible where three or more gather in His name He wil be there."

    @patchouly
    I use this verse often to define what I believe is fellowship, and church.
  66. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    822 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:31 am
    Eh, inside that little circle, some primitive people made up some lingering mythology. The real shock is we still believe it.
  67. Profile photo of SnoopyBG
    SnoopyBG Male 18-29
    653 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:40 am
    What infuriates me the most is when religious people reject "arguments disproving the existence of god". We don`t need to disprove anything, you need to prove the existence of god if you want to not look like total idiots, believing a 2000 year old book with no reason whatsoever.
  68. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:30 am
    God made the heavens and the earth. What is primitive is thinking that we have to know everything to have a good life. The people that argue for atheism have simply not experienced (or better yet not searched for) the subtlety of God`s existence in every day life.

    Seek and you shall find.

  69. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:46 am
    Agent00Smith
    "God made the heavens and the earth. What is primitive is thinking that we have to know everything to have a good life. The people that argue for atheism have simply not experienced (or better yet not searched for) the subtlety of God`s existence in every day life.

    Seek and you shall find. "
    -----
    Wrong again. I was born and raised Catholic. I used to tease other Atheists for not "Understanding God`s love". Then I realized that the speech they gave was crap. You know the one: "That feeling inside of you...that`s God`s love". We were taught to never question the word of God or we would burn in Hell. Problem is, as soon as you question it, it crumbles apart. Not one spec of it hold up under scrutiny. No wonder they didn`t want us to question it...
  70. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:47 am
    @CrakrJak Pearls before swine indeed!
  71. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:47 am
    ... When you look at how they teach you. The things they tell you. It`s all text book brainwashing. The question is, do you have the balls to examine it or has the brainwashing become to complete and there is no hope in rescuing you?
  72. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:53 am
    I love how you guys always quote the book you say shouldn`t be taken literally, when it suits you to do so. Then, you skirt the hard questions.

    Answer this: Less then a one third of the World is Christian. Why would God make two thirds of the population be born somewhere that would raise them under the "wrong" religion and then sentence them to eternity in Hell for following that religion? Is your God an evil and sadistic asshat? (If you are unsure how to answer the second part of that question, please read the Bible to see just how sadistic and evil your God truly is.)
  73. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:55 am
    @patchouly - Catholicism is dramatically different than Protestantism. Just saying.

  74. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:56 am
    @elkingo
    Yet they are both based on the same book. Just saying.
  75. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:56 am
    @patchouly - When Satan was expelled from heaven, he took with him 2/3`s of the angels. Funny how you are quoting the same amount, isn`t it?
  76. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:56 am
    Hey Patchouly, have you ever tried hallucinogens? I suggest taking a boat load of them and seeing the other side... the dark side that is. Mwahahaha! But really, some people see different sides of the truth.

    Cynical people have to experience hell to know it exists. So get your hell while it`s hot, even so to know the difference between good and evil.
  77. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:57 am
    @patchouly - Actually, if you hadn`t noticed, the Catholics added books to it, they are called the Septuagint.
  78. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:58 am
    @elkingo,

    For the record, I am also familiar with Protestantism. My Father was Catholic and my Mother was Protestant. Growing up, I used to go to a Catholic school during the day and then hang out with a friend at a Protestant church group with a friend. When I went to church, it was sometimes one and sometimes the other.

  79. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:00 am
    Actually, the Apocrypha is included in the Catholic Bible, and are widely disputed.
  80. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:00 am
    So, let me get this straight. You believe that the non-Christians are fallen angels (so to speak)? That they are all doomed to Hell because they follow Satan? You guys are more messed up then I thought... Have you thought about therapy?
  81. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:01 am
    @patchouly - I just realized this discussion may seem to be going down a path I don`t want. I am not trying to question your beliefs at all. Please don`t interpret it that way.

  82. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:02 am
    "So, let me get this straight. You believe that the non-Christians are fallen angels..."

    @_@

    I didn`t say that. WTF...

    I was just pointing out that it was a similar percentage, and was somewhat ironic. That is all.

    @_@
  83. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:06 am
    @patchouly - Do you have a problem with accepting that Christians can be nice people..

    I am not, nor have I been rude to you. Why do you engage in being rude to me?
  84. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:18 am
    So pointing out that the percentage of people who follow other religions matches the number of angels that followed Satan was just presented as an unrelated "fun fact" and had no bearing on this discussion at all? Is that what you are now claiming?
  85. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:23 am
    Your response was intended as an answer to why your God condemns 2/3rds of the population of this planet to a fiery, tortuous eternity for something he himself did to them in the first place.

    Points for being true to your religion, but how can you follow such an evil, sadistic God?
  86. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:25 am
    @patchouly -

    I am glad you can discern meaning out of random internet comments. You must be a blast in real life.

    I was pointing out that it was similar percentages. I made no assertion on the what significance that similarity may or may not mean.
  87. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:29 am
    elkingo:
    "I was pointing out that it was similar percentages. I made no assertion on the what significance that similarity may or may not mean.:
    -----

    Are you kidding?!? Of course that`s what you meant.

    Okay...lets say it was just a fun fact that you were mentioning to lighten the mood. What is your answer for why your God condemns 2/3rds of the population of the planet to a fiery Hell, for all eternity, after he was the one that placed them there in the first place?
  88. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:31 am
    However, since you are so dead set on an answer, let us analyze your assertion:

    God condemns 2/3rds of the population of this planet to a fiery, tortuous eternity for something he himself did to them in the first place.

    1. Who says God condemns? ... I read and understand that god judges the heart. (source: 1 Samuel 16:7)

    2. How do you recon God did it to them? Personally, I believe in free will. Humans have free will to teach their off spring whatever they wish. (source: Joshua 24:15, John 7:17, Revelation 3:20)

    It isn`t my place to decide if that is wrong or not (source: Matthew 7:1). At least that is what I read and study. Did you understand it differently?

  89. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:35 am
    Sure do. If God sends a baby down to be born in the Southern States, that baby will be raised a Christian. Almost no doubt. If he sends that same baby down to the middle east, that baby will be raised Muslim. Almost no doubt. Therefore, God has chosen the religious path of that baby. Then, on the babies dying day, he will condemn it to an eternity in Hell when it was his doing that put the child there in the first place.
  90. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:36 am
    So...I ask again...why would he do that to 2/3rds of the entire planet?
  91. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:37 am
    @patchouly - "If God sends a baby down to be born in..."
    If you are going to revert to an argument I have read 1000`s of times on religious discussion message boards, and not respond to anything I have posted, why are you even concerned with my opinion in the first place?
  92. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:38 am
    You asked for my opinion, and I gave it.
  93. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:40 am
    Still no answer huh? Okay...here are mine:
    1. Who says God condemns?
    I do. The Bible is quite clear on how he condemns. How he judges and executes those who do not follow him.

    2. How do you recon God did it to them? I answered this in my last post. To reiterate, he put them in a place where they are forced to grow up in a particular religion (much the same way as you were forced into yours). That makes it his choice and his doing.

    Now...are you going to answer my very simple question?
  94. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:42 am
    You did. You eluded to the fact that 2/3rds of the population is evil. When I tried to quote you on that, you back peddled and denied. Truth is, that`s exactly what you think. Right?
  95. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:46 am
    @patchouly - "Now...are you going to answer my very simple question?"

    I did.. with Bible verses and my opinion.

    Now, are you going to stop regurgitating Richard Dawkins talking points?

  96. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:48 am
    "You did. You eluded to the fact that 2/3rds of the population is evil. When I tried to quote you on that, you back peddled and denied. Truth is, that`s exactly what you think. Right?"

    Dude.. you need some serious help or something. Why are you so hung up on that. All I did was point out a similarity of percentages. Calm. The. F. Down.

    Lol
  97. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:50 am
    Okay then. Answer the question. Cut ands paste your response if you feel you already answered it.

    For the record, this isn`t regurgitating anything. Just one of the many questions I asked myself when I started to undo the brainwashing.
  98. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:51 am
    "When Satan was expelled from heaven, he took with him 2/3`s of the angels. Funny how you are quoting the same amount, isn`t it?"

    Things this could mean:
    1. People and angels are similar, in they follow promises of wealth, power, and visions.

    2. The numbers are similar percentages.

    3. This is an interesting factoid.

    4. Mere coincidence.

    Things @patchouly assumes it means:

    "ZOMG!! Elkingo thinks 2/3s of people are evil!!!"

  99. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:53 am
    Of course I assume that`s what it means. you offered it up as an answer to my question. If it wasn`t intended as such, then why offer it in the first place. And...if it`s not the answer to my question, then what is?
  100. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:54 am
    I believe that man-made religion is less important in life because of this verse:

    1 Samuel 16:7
    But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

    God does not unjustly condemn anyone. He measures their hearts.

  101. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:55 am
    The only possibility, from your list, is the one I suggested. Unless you are saying the reason God condemns 2/3rds of the World to Hell is because:
    4. Mere coincidence?
  102. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:55 am
    @patchouly "...if it`s not the answer to my question, then what is?"

    Assume that it was what I said it was, and nothing more.

    As for your question, read my other post:

    However, since you are so dead set on an answer, let us analyze your assertion:

    God condemns 2/3rds of the population of this planet to a fiery, tortuous eternity for something he himself did to them in the first place.

    1. Who says God condemns? ... I read and understand that god judges the heart. (source: 1 Samuel 16:7)

    2. How do you recon God did it to them? Personally, I believe in free will. Humans have free will to teach their off spring whatever they wish. (source: Joshua 24:15, John 7:17, Revelation 3:20)

    It isn`t my place to decide if that is wrong or not (source: Matthew 7:1). At least that is what I read and study. Did you understand it differently?

  103. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:56 am
    But he placed them into that situation. He is the reason they are there and believe what they do.
  104. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:58 am
    Holy crap you guys have the side stepping down pat, don`t you?

    This is a simple question. Claiming vague interpretations then using the "God moves in mysterious ways" ideology really doesn`t answer the question.

    Let`s try to be less vague with responses here. Why do YOU think God condemns 2/3rds of the population to Hell after he was the one that put them into that situation in the first place?
  105. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:59 am
    If you can`t be bothered to look up the verses, I will link them for you:

    1 Samuel 16:7

    Joshua 24:15

    John 7:17

    Revelation 3:20

    Matthew 7:1

    They really do emphasize my point,
  106. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:01 am
    Why do YOU think God condemns 2/3rds of the population to Hell after he was the one that put them into that situation in the first place?

    I don`t think God unjustly condemns 2/3`s of the popultion: 1 Samuel 16:7 ...but the Lord looketh on the heart.
  107. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:02 am
    Why can`t you just give me a simple answer? Why do you need to quote things? Say "I think God tortures 2/3rds of the World`s population for all eternity because..." Use your own words. Not vague responses but what you actually think the answer is.
  108. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:05 am
    elkingo
    "I don`t think God unjustly condemns 2/3`s of the popultion:"
    -----
    So the key word here is "unjustly". This means that, when he is sending a baby down to Earth, he knows it`s an evil piece of crap and he hates it so, he send it to the middle east to be raised as a Muslim so he can then send it to Hell for all eternity? If this isn`t what you mean...please feel free to elaborate (again...in your own words and not in cryptic vague responses and Bible quotes).
  109. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:05 am
    By the way...bonus points to you for beating around the bush for this long.
  110. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:06 am
    Oh, the one line in my post should have read:
    "he knows IF it`s an evil piece of crap"
  111. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:07 am
    @patchouly -

    I don`t know how to take you.. you are suffering from perseveration.

    Quit putting words in my mouth.


  112. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:09 am
    "This means that, when he is sending a baby down to Earth, he knows it`s an evil piece of crap and he hates it so, he send it to the middle east to be raised as a Muslim so he can then send it to Hell for all eternity?"

    No.. it does not.

    "(again...in your own words and not in cryptic vague responses and Bible quotes"

    There is nothing cryptic about what I said.

    ... Wait.. you honestly think men and women of the Christian faith shouldn`t back up their opinions with the Bible?


  113. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:09 am
    I am only trying to gather an answer from your vague responses and quotes.
  114. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:10 am
    I`m not asking you to back anything up. Just to answer the question in your own words.
  115. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:11 am
    You don`t need to back up your opinion here. You just need to make it clear what that opinion is.
  116. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:11 am
    "Say "I think God tortures 2/3rds of the World`s population for all eternity because..."

    How many times do I have to say that I disagree with the premise of your statement?
  117. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:13 am
    Much clearer!
    The Bible says that those who don`t follow the word of God will burn in Hell. I submit that my statement is completely accurate. 2/3rds of the World do not follow your God. Therefore, 2/3rds of the World is condemned to Hell.
  118. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:15 am
    patchouly -

    Here is my opinion:

    While it isn`t my place to question God, nor is it my place to judge others, I can`t make logical assumptions on who gets sent to Hell and for what reasons. That being said, I think it has little to do with religion (which I personally feel is corrupt and man - made) and more so to do with how a person lives life. The bible is useful for those of the Christian persuasion to serve as a guide book for morals and ethics - partly because it was transcribed by man-kind, and is subject to flaw (also considering it has been translated many many times).

    I simply feel based on the teachings of Christ, that it is more important to love others. Christ`s main teaching was that of love, and that He was love. He emphasized that point by saying the only way to Heaven was through Him (if he = love, then the only way to heaven is through love).
  119. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:15 am
    And just because we are quoting the Bible:
    Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  120. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:17 am
    Am I correct in assuming you are quoting Revelation 21:8?
  121. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2340 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:18 am
    Hey elkingo, too bad your all-powerful omnipresent god can`t speak for himself.

    Of course neither can Batman or the Lone Ranger, because they all share the same disadvantage -- they`re all fictional characters.
  122. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:18 am
    The Bible says that those who don`t follow the word of God will burn in Hell. - this is Rev, correct?
  123. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:18 am
    Elkingo, I`m quoting the Ten Commandments. The basic rules.
  124. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:19 am
    BoredFrank - you are welcome to have your own opinion. I don`t get offended easily. =)
  125. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:22 am
    patchouly - It may be useful in our discussion to decide what we agree on.

    Do you agree that it is important to live a moral life? To be a good person who loves other human kind?
  126. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:23 am
    Also...seeing how we are quoting...I can post a ton of nasty ones form the Old Testament, but I suppose you are more of a New Testament kind of guy so...this quote is for you:
    Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”
  127. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:26 am
    elkingo:
    "Do you agree that it is important to live a moral life? To be a good person who loves other human kind?"
    -----
    Absolutely. In fact, the Bible (and several other religious texts) offer up some great rules to live by, if you sift through the nasty stuff. However, that doesn`t make it true and it certainly doesn`t move toward answering my question. I have shown you that I am correct that 2/3rds of the population is doomed, based on your Bible. Want to try another answer?
  128. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:29 am
    patchouly - Then where we disagree is your assertion that God is cruel.

    I am firm in my belief that love is the primary factor for entrance to heaven, and that Jesus is an example of love.


  129. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:30 am
    patchouly - Maybe you should seek to answer your question for yourself. I seem to be unable to answer it for you.
  130. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:33 am
    The point is that it cannot be answered. It`s this and hundreds of other questions that cause the argument for religion to fall apart under scrutiny. They brainwash us, from the time were are born. Fill our heads with it and try to keep us from asking the questions. All in an effort to keep the money and power rolling into the church. You need to ask the questions. You need to see though the brainwashing. Otherwise, you will continue to be used by the church.
  131. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:34 am
    "Otherwise, you will continue to be used by the church."

    Did you not catch the part where I don`t go to church?

  132. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:35 am
    You seem like a very level headed guy. Don`t give up your religion, but ask the questions that are sitting in the back of your mind. Don`t pass it off as "God`s Will" or "We cannot understand God". Ask yourself the questions and see how much of it makes sense. Research. Learn. Don`t follow blindly.
  133. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:36 am
    I completely agree that churches do that. They try to get us to believe exactly what they want us to believe. However, I came to a different conclusion than you.

    You seem to have went down a path (and correct ne where I am wrong here)were you assume that since church and religion are corrupt, so is the creator.

    I came to the conclusion the "church" is corrupt, but the creator is loving and caring.
  134. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:39 am
    It was not the church that led me to that path. It was the logic. As I said, under scrutiny, there is no way there is a God. 100% certain on that. If you aren`t basing your belief in God on what you learned in Church, then where are you getting it from? The Bible is corrupt and rotten. Full of evil and hate. The church is corrupt and greedy. All that`s left is your peers and they follow it because they were told to. If not the God of the Bible, then which one? One you made up yourself? Why did you make one up?
  135. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:40 am
    ...and not you in particular. Just over all. Why make up a God? To fill the void?
  136. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:42 am
    See, the Bible is pretty specific about how things work. If you vary from it, you are condemned. So, the only way to operate outside of it is to make up your own rules. If you do that, you are just making up a God because you are afraid to be without one. But...why do that? And why continue to quote and make rules based on a book you don`t even follow?
  137. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:42 am
    Oh, I have a very strong faith. Where there are limits are from the guy at church who told me things like, "You will go to Hell if you don`t give us 10% of your earnings." Meanwhile, people in my community are starving. I decided that I would pay my tithes to God`s creation - his little children who are starving (hence my degree in Clinical Psychology). My "church" would be meeting with 2-3 people at a time to tell them hod God loves them.

    I get my blessings from helping others. If the creator didn`t want me to do that, and rather would have me sit bored and idle in a building.. I`d rather be damned.
  138. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:45 am
    The Bible is indeed specific.

    However, man has corrupted it to give it specific meanings.

    We are talking about a book that was translated from Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, and back again to wind up in English.

    Are you familiar with that google translate mime? Same principal, except people over time have done that to give it certain meanings..

    come to church or else!
    pay tithes or else!
    your all going to hell!

    etc etc

    I don`t buy into the hogwash that is man. I seek the creator through bible verses, but can see the obvious cultural issues and absurdities placed there by men who had a "vision" (a vision meaning, they got rich and powerful).
  139. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:46 am
    *meme
  140. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:47 am
    For instance, read about John the Baptist.

    A wild man, out in the wilderness, eating bugs and honey to survive.

    God loved that dude.

    Apply the rules of the Bible to him, and he would go straight to Hell.
  141. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:51 am
    There is no precedent set saying you can believe the parts you want and ignore the parts you don`t. In fact, it`s quite specific that the rules needs to be followed, as written.
  142. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:52 am
    Plus, you are saying that you are picking through an old book to piece together your own version of the religion. I trust you include the Koran and other religious texts in your search?
  143. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:53 am
    "In fact, it`s quite specific that the rules needs to be followed, as written."

    I know.. Pastor / reverend / Priest / *insert religious leader title here* told me if I didn`t fall in line I would go straight to hell.
  144. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:57 am
    "I trust you include the Koran and other religious texts in your search?"

    Actually, I did...

    I found them less than useful though, for myself anyway. Not trying to belittle them. I have a religious studies degree, and while it is mainly focused on Protestant reformation, English history, and the history of Christianity in general, I have studied a great many of religions, including (but not limited to): Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Pagan religions of Native Americans, Latin American faiths, spiritualism, and heck.. I dunno off hand what all else.
  145. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 7:59 am
    I actually find Kabalism to be the most useful out of other religions I have studied.
  146. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:00 am
    That wouldn`t have anything to do with where you were born...would it ;)

    ...to get back to my original question: Am I correct in assuming you don`t believe the Bible where it says:
    Mark 16:16 "He that believeth not, shall be damned"? Because that really is the crux of my original argument and proves my point that God has condemned others.
  147. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:01 am
    The bit that makes me a Christian, however, is my faith that Jesus was the son of God, and was resurrected.

    Jesus labels us his sheep, and He the Shepard; however, that does not infer that He wants us all to be blind sheeple following to the letter what other men tell us to believe.
  148. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:03 am
    "Jesus labels us his sheep, and He the Shepard; however, that does not infer that He wants us all to be blind sheeple following to the letter what other men tell us to believe."
    -----
    Actually, that`s exactly what it means. you have free will to decide, unless of course you were born in the Middle East...
  149. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:05 am
    "Am I correct in assuming you don`t believe the Bible where it says:
    Mark 16:16 "He that believeth not, shall be damned"?"

    Answer

    This link is consistent with what I have been asserting: that men corrupted the word. This link shows how it appears as if "the ending of Mark may have been lost and someone rewrote it and attached it to a copy at sometime. It is possible that the ending under question was never there to begin with."
  150. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:09 am
    "That wouldn`t have anything to do with where you were born...would it ;)"

    Absolutely, not.
    My family wasn`t exactly "religious" growing up.

    I started developing my own faith in High School, when I was exposed to a book in the library on "Faiths of the World." For a time, I think I considered Zeus. haha..

    I also had pressure on me to follow the native American religions.. I am 3/8 Indian.

    I studied more and more religions, until one day some Mormons (lol) offered me a free KJV of the bible on an old television ad.

    I got that book late my freshman year of high school, and read it passionately. Considering they are based out of Utah, and me out of Kentucky, I feel location had very little to do with my faith development.

  151. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:10 am
    Okay...so that part of the Bible is wrong as well...What about all the mentions of it in the Old Testament?
  152. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:10 am
    I suppose it is possible had I been born in say Iraq, I would have not seen that television ad, nor would I have read a book on world religion.

  153. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:11 am
    patchouly - I do enjoy this conversation, but I am not going to dissect the bible all day. Lol

    Lets just agree that I find some of it corrupt. Hows that?
  154. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:14 am
    You have to realize, much of the bible is cultural, and contextual. Many of the books were simply not written as guidelines for people to live by. They were written as letters between ancient churches.

    There is a great debate about the authenticity of some of the books (the Apocrypha for example). Also, many of the books were written specific to a small group of people.

    I reject that the notion that all non-believers will burn in hell is anything more than men manipulating other men.
  155. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:16 am
    Also, as for the Old Testament - I am not Jewish. =)
  156. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:24 am
    "I reject that the notion that all non-believers will burn in hell is anything more than men manipulating other men. "
    ----
    If that`s the case, then why follow religion at all? Do what you want. If everyone gets a free pass into heaven anyway...
  157. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:30 am
    "If everyone gets a free pass into heaven anyway"

    I didn`t claim that.
  158. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:33 am
    Well...not evil people. But you can go to heaven even if you are an Atheist? Seems like a strange idea that you don`t even need to follow a religion to go to it`s Heaven.
  159. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:34 am
    elkingo
    "Also, as for the Old Testament - I am not Jewish. =)"
    ------

    Neither was I. But it didn`t stop them from ramming it down our throats on a daily basis.
  160. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:36 am
    patchouly - I don`t pretend to know all the answers.. Perhaps Jesus ministers to atheists at the time of death. I don`t know, nor do I pretend to know.

    I suspect that part is faith.
  161. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:37 am
    "it didn`t stop them from ramming it down our throats on a daily basis."

    I know.. one of the many reasons I stopped attending church. I tried, I really did.. I went to about 100 different churches. it was always the same.. pay tithes, or go to hell because of this verse.
  162. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:40 am
    Like I said before. There are no answers to these questions because it`s just not real. When they set the brainwashing in place, it was very well done. To cover over the obvious holes, the make up rules about not questioning things.

    I have a business meeting to get to. I can only say this. Step outside of the mire of religious texts and ask the questions. It`s the only way to find the truth. In today`s World, where we don`t need Gods to explain droughts etc. religions are easily proven wrong. All it takes is the bravery to take that first step and look around.
  163. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:44 am
    patchouly - Yeah, I have to head to clinical supervision myself. Enjoyed the discussion though!
  164. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 9:56 am
    I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, and I`ll die Catholic. And no, I have never and won`t ever try and convert anyone. That is one, of the clearly many, misconceptions about the faith I see a lot on IAB. And I won`t get into a debate; I never do, it proves pointless and I am not very good at it. I will say that if this post/commentary and many others like it on IAB are what people think Christianity (especially Catholics) are all about then I can guarantee you 100% that you do not know what being a Catholic is all about. Seriously, not even close at times. I encourage you to do some research with an open mind; not to convert or even to believe in God, but just so you debate with much much much more truth about the faith. Yes, I know many people that have had bad experiences with the church. I get that. But that`s not the church I am talking about. I`m talking about the church like the one I attend where some are organizing a team to do a 5k run/walk (cont`d)
  165. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 9:58 am
    (from prev) where ae are trying to raise money for a non-religious based local cancer care facility. That`s the church I am talking about. Prayer is a powerful thing; I will keep you all in my prayers.
  166. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 12:38 pm
    165+ replies? Oy Vey!
  167. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    5Cats:
    "165+ replies? Oy Vey!"
    -----

    Mostly me. Can you tell I`m passionate about this?
  168. Profile photo of HQampersand
    HQampersand Male 18-29
    172 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 2:58 pm
    Religious bashing aside... HOLY CRAP WE`RE SMALL!!
  169. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 3:36 pm
    Lol.. we had a great discussion on the subject.
  170. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 3:58 pm
    "And no, I have never and won`t ever try and convert anyone. That is one, of the clearly many, misconceptions about the faith I see a lot on IAB. And I won`t get into a debate; I never do, it proves pointless and I am not very good at it. I will say that if this post/commentary and many others like it on IAB are what people think Christianity (especially Catholics) are all about then I can guarantee you 100% that you do not know what being a Catholic is all about."

    No, I think it`s you that doesn`t know what a lot of other Catholics are about then.

    The reason why so many on IAB or in any other forum of life, whether online or offline make references to someone religous trying to convert them or preaching to them about their life choices is because they`ve experienced someone doing it.

    The fact you don`t is neither here nor there really.....yay for you, but to deny that there are many that do, or try to label it as a misconception is a bit of limite
  171. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm
    (cont.)
    to deny that there are many that do, or try to label it as a misconception is a bit of limited thinking.

    Do you really not know that a lot of religious people DO try and convert non-believers? Is the notion of `spreading the word` a myth rather than a way of life for some believers?

    Seriously, you`d deny that and think it`s a misconception?
  172. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 4:53 pm
    Listypoos - So?

    Do you not realize that nearly every atheist that comments and admits to being an atheist here has some sort of negative and rude comment to make about 1 religion.. (Christianity), and also tries to convert Christians?

    What is your point... shall we assume that all atheists are negative and asinine as the Christians they so vehemently despise?
  173. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:10 pm
    "Do you not realize that nearly every atheist that comments and admits to being an atheist here has some sort of negative and rude comment to make about 1 religion.. (Christianity), and also tries to convert Christians?

    What is your point"

    My point Elk was that he was the one that was saying Christians trying to convert people was a misconception. Which is utter bullpoo.

    Have I or did I say some atheists don`t try and do it too? No. So why try and refute a point I didn`t make?
  174. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 5:59 pm
    @elkingo

    You have to get rid of the blind faith part of your Christianity to objectively understand the purpose of biblical stories and why xians are jewish/not-jewish. This may help you and save you a lot of money as well.
  175. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:02 pm
    inside that circle? God created everything.. so the observable universe.. and beyond!
  176. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:17 pm
    patchouly: i disagree, there are answers. I was in your shoes before. Like you said, "All it takes is the bravery to take that first step and look around" so don`t be afraid to reach out with your spiritual sense and find out :D
  177. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:19 pm
    Listypoos - hmm.. so you are hanging on to the notion that "Christians" are trying to covert you.

    Have... have I done that to you?
  178. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5442 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 6:20 pm
    llaa - hey thanks! I bookmarked that. I will have to check it out later though. Wife and baby are in need of attention. Lol
  179. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:01 pm
    747Pilot:
    "patchouly: i disagree, there are answers. I was in your shoes before. Like you said, "All it takes is the bravery to take that first step and look around" so don`t be afraid to reach out with your spiritual sense and find out :D"
    ------

    Was already religious. When you realize that the whole thing is built on a house of cards and is completely fake/based on nothing, it disappears in a puff of smoke. You need some pretty heavy medication to return to religion after seeing through it.
  180. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 8:10 pm
    @elkingo

    Make sure to also install the Concordant Literal Version and Young`s Literal Translation 1898 modules.
    Both are considered the best translations from the best biblical scholars & clergy in recent times (both published in the 19th century); the problem is the books are obscenely expensive at christian bookstores (like they don`t want you to buy them). Thankfully the copyright has lapsed and avail for free in database form.
  181. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 10:58 pm
    "inside that circle? God created everything.. so the observable universe.. and beyond!"

    hahahahaahaaaaahaahahahaaahaaa!
  182. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    March 6, 2014 at 11:00 pm
    "Listypoos - hmm.. so you are hanging on to the notion that "Christians" are trying to covert you.

    Have... have I done that to you? "


    Hmm.. and did I say ALL Christians do, or are you just deliberately missing the point I was replying to now? Go on, do it again.... it just makes you look a bit silly.

    Look, nice and simple for you....he said the notion of Christians trying to convert people was a misconception. I called BS on that and said that some Christians have done that...some, not *all*. Some...not *you* during this post. Some *Christians*, I haven`t mentioned what some atheists have or haven`t done.

    What now? You going to try and deflect from the point I was replying to of his I was calling BS on by bringing up what Buddhists do? Or any other poo I haven`t said you what to try and shoehorn into your reply to make it look more relevant?
  183. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 7, 2014 at 2:54 am
    patchouly: Ah i see.. well it`s been my understanding that having religion is a bit different from having faith (or even meeting God). religious is kind of like focusing on the wrapping paper, whereas having faith is more of a focus on the gift under it. Sure, if every kid was supposed to focus on the wrapping paper, birthdays and Christmas would get dull pretty quick. Besides, when you meet someone, it`s kind of hard to take someone serious when they say that the person isn`t real. Just food for thought...

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