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Date: 03/12/14 12:46 PM

75 Responses to Alive Or Dead? [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of Olragix
    Olragix Male 18-29
    1080 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 12:39 pm
    Link: Alive Or Dead? - Something to ponder over...
  2. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2194 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 12:51 pm
    if you want it = baby if you dont want it = fetus/mass of tissues
  3. Profile photo of bex753
    bex753 Male 40-49
    221 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 1:11 pm
    I must say I am deeply uncomfortable about abortion but fully support a woman`s right to make that choice. That said contraception so it`s not a choice they have to make is far better.
  4. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    I am completely anti-abortion. Don`t want babies, don`t have unprotected sex.

    Get raped, that sucks, but not worth killing another human life over. Someone would adopt the baby.
  5. Profile photo of Neoptolemos
    Neoptolemos Male 30-39
    625 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 2:11 pm
    @TruTenrMan:
    wow, that`s some profound and deep sh*t, man!
    /sarcasm
  6. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 2:19 pm
    @Neoptolemos, enjoy supporting the murder of millions of innocent, helpless babies every year then, man. May God have mercy on your soul.
  7. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 2:30 pm
    If men gave birth, I`m convinced that many of these "pro-life" would change their tiny minds.
  8. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4852 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 2:33 pm
    @TruTenrMan,
    I`m very much pro-choice but I do respect your position. Having said that I also have to say that I think there are way too many abortions done for reasons that equate to laziness and stupidity on the part of the patient. Pregnancy, however, is not a particularly benign condition. It changes pretty much all of a woman`s physiology. Some conditions of pregnancy, admittedly uncommon, are actually quite dangerous to the woman. Women have died, and continue to die at times, from some of these conditions. Even if you`re very much against abortion, you should consider whether it`s really appropriate to force a woman to carry a pregnancy that was brutally forced upon her.
  9. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 2:35 pm
    @TruTenrMan, they are not babies, playing the demagoguery card is reprimandable at the least. By that "logic", you`re killing many potential forms of life with nocturnal emissions. Murder, I say!
  10. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:02 pm
    Sperm is not human life. Neither is an egg.

    The fusion of the two gametes is what develops the new organism (i.e., human live).
  11. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:02 pm
    No way, are "pro-lifers" here too? I thought that they were too stupid to type.

    That does not mean i condone unnecessary abortion but it`s not ANY OF MY BUSINESS to say anyone what to do. It`s just a sack of cells at that point when it`s commonly acceptable in most societies in the world to abort a fetus. And it`s nobodys business to take such options away just because they can`t get over some sentimental feeling, let alone religion. There are no mention of abortion in the bible. The only thing even close is Onan and that means that men need to stop jerking off too.. Willing to do that? Yeah, thought so so shut up.

    And why does majority of prolifers support capital punishment and are not willing to help out the single mothers they obviously want more? Or birth control? Not everyone of course but it seems to be a thing on your circles.

    Hypocritical selfish b-tards, that`s what i think of you.
  12. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:03 pm
    Paragraph #2 is just one lie after another. Much MUCH more than 1% are aborted for no particular reason, at any given time of gestation. Most places don`t even keep records of "why" or fill in whatever paperwork without question.
    In Canada? There is NO LAW AT ALL.
    Since abortions in the USA and Canada are done even in the final days before "birth" (due date) this argument presented is a lie.

    Complete and utter bullship.
  13. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:09 pm
    @TruTenrMan,

    Question: How many adopted children do you have? I thought so. Well, until you buck up and adopt at least one, your typical "adoption argument" only serves to illustrate how you ignore God`s forgotten newborn children. Seek mercy for your own tainted soul.
  14. Profile photo of Neoptolemos
    Neoptolemos Male 30-39
    625 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm
    @TruTenrMan:
    May God have mercy on your soul.


    Your goddamn right, Jesus. It`s annoying
  15. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:17 pm
    @CreamK: As usual, you`re completely wrong:

    #1 The Old Testament covers it in: Exodus 21 22 - 24 especially. Lots of things in modern times "aren`t covered" in the Bible. Telephones? Automobiles? Heart transplants?

    #2 If it`s no one else`s business? Why is the male responsible for 18 years of child support?

    #3 We believe adults should be held responsible for their actions. You steal? You are punished. You murder? You`re put to death. You`re conceived? You should be allowed to be born. It`s not the fetus`s fault it`s there, is it?

    Only a VERY small % of people oppose birth control, Muslims are among them, FYI.
  16. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:26 pm
    @BuckeyeJoe, I have not adopted because I have three kids with another on the way. If we had not been able to have children, we would have adopted.
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:28 pm
    @BuckEyeJoe: Welcome to IAB!

    Now, SHUT UP! How many abortions have YOU had? None, because you`re a male! Men have no say in this issue, be quiet!

    (NOTE: I`m being sarcastic here, a parody of how some females spout nonsense on this issue, eh?
    There`s a multi-year waiting list for adoption, you`re spouting similar, dogmatic nonsense too, eh?)
  18. Profile photo of Neoptolemos
    Neoptolemos Male 30-39
    625 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm
    5Cats, just please go away.
    You`re IAB`s Mr. Wilson, the Statler & Waldorf to the Muppets, the Mr Burns to the Simpsons, the Scrooge to our Christmas.
    Please, just go
  19. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm

  20. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    @Neoptolemos: Your two posts on this subject consist of nothing but personal insults? Why exactly should I care what you think?

    @WhoDat: I`m sure a comedian`s joke is backed up with HORDES of FACTUAL research! (/sarc)
  21. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:45 pm
    @TruTenrMan,

    So, you love to tell others how to fix the problem, but are unwilling to do anything yourself. Others should change what they do, but you are exempt. How fortunate. Maybe you should stop making more children and start adopting some of the ones that were put up for adoption instead of aborted. To update the old adage: "put your money where your mouth is," I say to you: "put your actions where your preaching is."
  22. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    @5Cats, that passage starts with "When men strive together", so it has nothing to do with abortion, the miscarriage is a result, not the cause. If you can`t even go by the bible you believe in, I`m afraid that your saying in the matter has very little weight.
    And your 3 point demonstrates an incredible naivety that I would expect from a very young person. I don`t think you are that simple.
  23. Profile photo of Neoptolemos
    Neoptolemos Male 30-39
    625 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    @5Cats:
    you don`t have to care, you just have to leave
  24. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    @ 5Cats,

    Thank you for your kind welcome! I like cats. You, however, are annoying, and rarely make much sense. But I will endure you, since I like cats.

    I am well aware of the waiting period for adoption (just guess why...), and I am not sure you understand the definition of dogma (catma?).
  25. Profile photo of Neoptolemos
    Neoptolemos Male 30-39
    625 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:00 pm
    @BuckeyeJoe:

  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:15 pm
    Without the heart beating there is no brain activity. There are many people without brain activity, whose hearts are still beating, most of them are democrats.

    So to surmise, if a person`s heart stops beating for 6 minutes, they are dead. The reverse should be true as well, if their heart has been beating for at least 6 minutes they are alive, period.
  27. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:19 pm
    @TruTenrMan, hence the word "potential" ¬¬
  28. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:28 pm
    We`re all for small, regulation-free government--well, except where it deals with what happens between a woman`s legs. And with gay people. Then, you know, we need a great deal of regulation. Because hell in a hand basket and all of that jazz.
  29. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:44 pm
    SmugMan - It`s funny, because suddenly your crew gets all "anti-regulation" on abortion. Yes, you do.

    My favorite thing about the abortion debate is how much stricter European abortion laws are. Seriously, they`re way stricter.
  30. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 4:50 pm
    This post is just a bunch of stupidity. Somebody scoured the internet for a pro-life post they think is stupid, somebody spends all night crafting a clever response, and then it gets to circulate the inter webs. SO CLEVER.

    Most people are never fully one way or the other, so the debate is even further made stupid. Like I`ve said, even Europe has stricter laws than us. Their laws would be considered KKK laws here.

    Also, regardless of your position, babies are not just a woman`s job. Leftists want us to think this, apparently (why is beyond me). Men have a responsibility to raise them. It`s like you guys are just absolving a whole gender of all babily obligations. That`s wrong, they have 18 years of obligations. They are relevant. It`s no wonder fathers are delinquent these days. Nothing is expected of them.
  31. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 5:08 pm
    "Many of the cells within the body and brain are still alive for hours after a patient is pronounced dead."

    Maybe the uppity twat that wrote that reply should take their own advice and "do actual research".
  32. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 5:24 pm
    gimme a break! IT AIN"t YOUR CHOICE ! If it was we would still have the death penalty !
  33. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    This thread is absolutely brain dead and should be aborted.
  34. Profile photo of ForSquirel
    ForSquirel Male 30-39
    2159 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 5:36 pm
    I pronounce people dead all the time.

    I also am smart enough to know that at the time of conception there isn`t a life. It`s just a cluster of cells.
  35. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4852 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 6:37 pm
    @5Cats,
    Where I am the legal limit is 24 weeks gestation. That`s 16 weeks shy of the due date. Not judging anything, here. Just informing.

    @CrakrJak,
    I agree with you at least with respect to a heartbeat defining an embryo as living. The issue is actually viability. That is the ability to live outside the womb without drastic measures and low probability of a live, healthy infant despite those measures. Again, no judging. Just informing.
  36. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 7:13 pm
    broizfam: Meanwhile neonatal science has already made an artificial womb and tested it on sheep embryos. Link

    If we don`t iron out, very soon, the line between a living human being and a "cluster of cells", we are going to be facing a legal dilemma.

    Does a woman`s "rights" extend to an extra-uterine embryo? What about a man`s rights in that instance? We are not legally or ethically prepared, at all, for this. Mostly because the left has screamed feminist rhetoric like, "Hands off my body".

    When it`s no longer in your body, ladies, what rhetoric will you scream then? What will you say when a man has one of his wife eggs fertilized and incubated in an artificial womb, without her approval?
  37. Profile photo of Magentab0b
    Magentab0b Female 30-39
    1467 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 7:29 pm
    24 weeks! Cause that`s usually when uninduced miscarriages stop.
  38. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    "If we don`t iron out, very soon, the line between a living human being and a "cluster of cells", we are going to be facing a legal dilemma."

    There is no disagreeing with that statement. It`s a pretty easy question to answer with science.

    The problems are simple too:
    On the right...religion.
    On the left.... so called "woman`s rights".

    It`s only a matter of woman`s rights while it`s a "cluster of cells", after that, the right to life outweighs a woman`s convenience.

    As for religion, it`s simple. Religion has no business in politics and law making.

    It isn`t hard to determine the approximate time when life starts, if you leave your religion or ridiculous notion of women`s rights out of it.

    The idea of artificial womb`s is a completely different subject altogether.
  39. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 8:33 pm
    abortion is a side effect of deep rooted problems in this world.

    About the response though, where they used `regular` when they wrote "fetuses do not have `regular` brain activity until 25 weeks". The problem is the poster is biased, like how `normal` is different today than it was 100 years ago. The default position should be that life begins at the time of conception. But sadly, some people feel it`s an inconvenient position, and they decide it`s really only a cluster of cells, in order to end that life for convenience. If it really were just a cluster of cells, it wouldn`t multiply. Clearly it`s more than just a cluster of cells.
  40. Profile photo of Gauddith
    Gauddith Female 18-29
    231 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:31 pm
    This whole thread is why women don`t want men making the decisions for what the hell we do with our bodies.

    Here is the deal, if I have a male in my life who is willing to help with, or take the baby, (depending on circumstance) then I will keep that child. UNLESS the child is a product of a rape.

    "Yeah, sorry timmy, you`re a rape baby, I never wanted you and now I have to feed you and cloth you at the expense of the government. Sorry lil guy."

    And if that child is going to kill me on the way out, no, not at all. These are the things many men seem to ignore. These are the things that do concern ME. I don`t take abortion lightly, but I also don`t take SCREWING UP a child, my own death or having a daily reminder of a time some non-nice individual ruined my life lightly either.
  41. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    747 - A fungal spore has the ability to divide and multiply.
    Look, I hate the idea of abortions for convenience. As a lazy form of birth control, or a easy fix for bad decisions...but a "clump of cells" is not alive. It is not human. Just because it can become, doesn`t mean it is.

    There are legitimate reasons for early term abortions. We have no way to legislate whether someone is worthy. (The NSA may be working on that)

    So the question becomes "when has life started". It`s not a hard question to figure out. We have a clear, scientific definition.

    If your answer is "at conception" you aren`t thinking logically. You are thinking emotionally.

    Some people decide abortion for convenience. I don`t disagree.
    You say life begins at conception because it`s convenient for YOU. Don`t be lazy. Don`t be influenced by religion either.

    This isn`t as complicated as the extreme left and right make it.
  42. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:39 pm
    I don`t think this is right. I know the tech definition of death. But how often do they check for brain activity when deciding someone is dead. Almost never.
  43. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:44 pm
    "Clearly it`s more than just a cluster of cells."

    Couldn`t agree more. And that`s what my Christian faith and life experience tells me.

    However, compromise has to be made and "first heartbeat" seems to be the most logical point without bringing religion into it.

    We can`t keep throwing away our future just because some believe it`s a inconvenience. That just disgusts me to no end. We could be throwing away the next Edison, Newton, Yeager, Salk, Carver or Nobel.
  44. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:44 pm

    Gauddith - The vast majority of people are ok with abortion if the mothers life is at stake. Many are also ok with it when rape is the case. Besides, there is "plan B" for women who have been raped.

    Call me an ass, and I am sure you will, but this is not about WOMAN`S RIGHTS. It`s about HUMAN RIGHTS.

    A woman`s right to convenience is completely outweighed by a humans right to life. That is why the question of when life begins is important.

    Before life begins, do what you want, just like every other decision you have a right to make.
    After life begins, no amount of women`s rights makes murder of a live baby for convenience o.k.

    (except for those extreme situations you spoke of.)
  45. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 9:57 pm

    Crakr - I`m not sure if first heartbeat is as clear as you make it to be. You are deciding based from religion, which has no place in law making for everyone.

    2 heart cells placed next to each other will synchronize into 1 heartbeat whether in the womb or a petri dish. In the womb "heartbeat" can be as little as 18 days from implantation.

    Without religion, it`s hard to consider 2 cells to be a human life. If 2 cells is the qualification, that brings us right back to a egg and sperm...2 cells and conception.
  46. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36665 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    I`m with Crakr. It`s a live baby. It`s obviously alive. You know it is. At the very least you know, if allowed to grow, it will become a teenager and despite their uncivilized behavior they are people.
  47. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    Gerry - I still think you are confusing the issue. Just because it can become life doesn`t mean it is.

    Let me leave with one question.
    Is you belief that a couple cells = human life based on common sense, or is it just convenient for you. As a guy it`s easy to say. As a gay or religious man it`s even more convenient.

    Remember, this isn`t just about your personal religion or morality. It`s about legislation that affects others who don`t have the same view, but still have rights. It isn`t about woman`s rights. It is about human life. Not potential life. The living have rights that supersede those not alive...

    Both sides are extremes. Life at conception or life at birth. I don`t mean to offend. From my POV, it seems obvious that the answer is between the two extremes.

    I`ve said my piece, so I`ll shut up now. Sorry for the rant IAB.

  48. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4348 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 11:31 pm
    any excuse to rip babies out of wombs.....it`s not like at some point after conception you are suddenly alive and human, you are right from the start.
  49. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 11:37 pm
    @AGit: How do you suppose abortions happen? Fairies? Magic? Or groups of people gathering to cause a miscarriage?
    The POINT is that it`s "life for a life" OK? Not like slaves (which are property) or bulls (also property) but HUMAN BEINGS. Life = life. Read the whole thing in context before further making a fool of yourself.

    @Neoptolemos: I "have to leave" eh? How about... no. How about addressing the issues at hand? Or making sense? Too hard for you? Sad.

    @BuckEyeJoe: I myself am the child of a 16 year old girl. I was given up for adoption in 1963. Ok?

    Comparing abortion and adoption is 99.9% bullship. Why don`t you ask the LIBERALS if they`d adopt all those aborted children? No? You only expect ONE side of the issue to fix things? Why exactly is that?

    @broizfam: Yes, my point is that "legal times" for abortion are ENTIRELY arbitrary! 24 weeks here, 34 weeks there, why? Who knows!
  50. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 12, 2014 at 11:53 pm
    @turdburglar: After the 4th cell division? The embryo no longer "borrows" DNA material from the mother (host).
    So: Before 4 divisions? Requires the mother`s DNA.
    After 4? Has UNIQUE DNA.

    To me? That is what makes it a separate human being. DNA isn`t arbitrary, like "breathing" or heartbeats. It`s easily verifiable, scientifically provable.

    So VERY early on? It`s separate from the host (mother) and entirely a separate human being.

    I`ve yet to see any evidence to contradict this, and ALL of the pro-abortion position falls to pieces in light of this position.

    I`d also like to point out that there`s a "post-partum abortion" position which says mothers can abort their "fetus" after it is born. Because it`s still dependant on the mother for life, up until it`s 1 or 2 years old, what difference does it make? Same as a fetus, right?
  51. Profile photo of Daegog
    Daegog Male 30-39
    1359 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 12:05 am
    Abortion legality is ONLY an issue for poor people. If it were totally barred in the US, anyone of means would simply run over to some other country and flush that kid before the return flight was fueled.

    So, now that we know this is really a issue about MONEY, lets talk about redistributing the wealth and increasing welfare, because guess who cant have that abortion now? POOR WOMEN. And they need cash to feed that baby that you INSISTED be born.

    So are all you pro lifers so in favor of increasing welfare or do you just want starving poor babies throughout the country? You HAVE to have one or the other. You cannot pretend that the baby`s mother will have means to take care of it, should she? Probably, but thats not reality.
  52. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    995 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 3:24 am
    @5Cats, as I`ve already said by direct quote, it`s about violence between men, the miscarriage is an inclusion (treated, by the way, as less important than cursing one`s parents). Nothing to do with abortion.
    It`s also amusing that those who oppose abortion seem to consider that the other side revels in abortion, as if we couldn`t get pregnant quick enough and have a laugh falling down steps or poking with coathangers. Moronic, indeed. I don`t think that anyone wants to abort, it`s not an easy decision. But once taken, the last thing they need is a bible thumping twat telling them fairy tales about god`s awesome plan.
    I really hope that your kids (if you have any) never insult you.
  53. Profile photo of darkhawk
    darkhawk Male 70 & Over
    260 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 3:40 am
    Thank god abortion is legal and relatively cheap in Europe. That`s why we don`t get ppl who post these kind of pictures. They don`t get born. :p

    All anti abortion ppl are just, not well informed or morons.
    Prohibiting ppl from getting a abortion because you think is wrong.
    Is like prohibiting freedom of speech because some one said something that offended you. Accept that not everyone will want or think the same way you do.

    Either we are free to make our own choices. Or we give up freedom for the sake of not agreeing with some one els.
  54. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 4:13 am
    @Daegog: Here I thought that the steps necessary to get pregnant was (typically) a voluntary process. If women are walking down the streets and getting pregnant all of a sudden, then I agree with your viewpoint!
  55. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 4:20 am
    @5cats: It`s amusing to me that you would bring up that particular passage in Exodus, because what it really says is that their God does not consider a fetus a life. If it were, the punishment for miscarriage not causing harm to the woman would be death, but it isn`t.
  56. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 4:27 am
    To me? That is what makes it a separate human being. DNA isn`t arbitrary, like "breathing" or heartbeats. It`s easily verifiable, scientifically provable.
    So if I take two of those cells, with DNA, and put them in a petri dish, does that mean I have a human in my petri dish? I think you need to read up what the word "arbitrary" means, because you don`t seem to understand it. DNA =/= person.
  57. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3878 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 5:06 am
    I`m liberal on most issues. however, I`m generally against Abortion. I believe everyone has a right to life. Now there are situations where I think abortion should he an option. I`m not for removing it completely I simply think we have to change as a society.

    Those spouting Bible verses where are you after the child is born? What about all the poor people? You want to take away welfare, government assistance. 5Cats, Crakr, Ollie, continuously bash government. you guys from your own postings regularly don`t give two poos about people after they pop out of the womb. It`s a two way street. Wealth inequality, government assistance. education are all affected by new life. I don`t get how you guys argue pro-life and in the same breath are all about survival of the fittest on everything else.
  58. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4852 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 5:16 am
    @CrakrJak,
    "We could be throwing away the next Edison, Newton, Yeager, Salk, Carver or Nobel."

    Or Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, or Barak Obama!
  59. Profile photo of Daegog
    Daegog Male 30-39
    1359 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 6:17 am
    Thats what all pro-lifers think. RESPONSIBILITY!

    Well news flash, People get pregnant. many times, they don`t want to be pregnant. Maybe they shouldnt be having sex? Doesn`t matter they do. Preaching abstinence is about as effective as the war on drugs.

    If you do not want abortions then you MUST be responsible and pay for the poor child`s upkeep, because you know that an irresponsible, poor woman cannot.

    I`d love to see a vote, how many pro-lifers would agree to become official, registered pro-lifers in exchange for a nationwide abortion ban (except in rape/incest/mothers health, etc.)

    The cost of being a registered pro-lifer would be 25% of your gross income. NO ONE would agree to this.

    Pro-lifers simply do not care about babies AFTER they are born.
  60. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36665 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 6:48 am

    @ turdburglar, I don`t see how any of this is "convenient" for me. It`s just fact. Bottom line is you don`t know when it becomes a person. No one does neither psychic, preacher or scientist. 10 inches long of 1/2 inch? You can only guess when you think it qualifies as a person. What if you guess wrong? You`ve killed a baby.

    As a babies life is the stakes, I choose to err on the side of caution and not kill a baby.
  61. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 6:59 am
    As a fetus` future life is the stakes, I choose to err on the side of caution and not abort a fetus.
    FTFY.
  62. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4852 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 7:38 am
    @Gerry,
    Well said. While I`m pro-choice, I have to say that I`ve always respected the argument you present. There`s good logic and consideration there, and so it`s not a position I can debate. I can only disagree because of my feelings on the subject. Those who are against abortion strictly because "It says in the Bible...", however, have no thoughts of their own on the subject. I don`t argue with them because there`s no point in arguing with an idiot.
  63. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 7:38 am
    "Abortions should be safe, legal, and rare" (Bill Clinton)

    If Pro-Lifers supported Planned Parenthood, sex education, universal healthcare, and other resources that actually are proved to reduce unwanted and teen pregnancies... then I might respect their position.
  64. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4852 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 7:39 am
    By the way, how much do you think CrakrJak will love that I included Obama with Manson and Hitler? I figured those are three people who scare him!
  65. Profile photo of asterix2mf
    asterix2mf Male 50-59
    194 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 8:18 am
    I will NEVER be bored enough to discuss this subject on IAB.
  66. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 8:20 am
    @5Cats,

    Comparing adoption and abortion is the entire position of the pro-lifer. Because this alternative exists, they feel free to mandate the health of the mother. The implications of unwanted (read: forced) pregnancy do NOT end after birth, and this idea that adoption solves any problem is myopic and uneducated. The "don`t kill the poor-babies" argument sounds impenetrable in principle, but most of us don`t really care about life or the quality of it: we simply want to control the criteria for killing, oppressing, and marginalizing others -- contingent on the contemporary fad or flavor.

    Just look to how pro-lifers treat the dregs of society, how they treat those who do not share their opinions, religious or otherwise, and their irreverence of life is plain.

    And to address your half-digested retort: why do you assume I am liberal? But of course, the liberals are not (in general) making the adoption argument, so why should they be accountable for
  67. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 9:29 am
    @TruTenrMan,

    Question: How many adopted children do you have? I thought so. Well, until you buck up and adopt at least one, your typical "adoption argument" only serves to illustrate how you ignore God`s forgotten newborn children. Seek mercy for your own tainted soul.
  68. Profile photo of Umbobo
    Umbobo Male 40-49
    64 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 10:49 am
    When people say that it has "The potential for life" I can`t help but laugh. That statement says something like "It MIGHT become a living person, but those cells might turn out to be a rock". Yeah, not all of these cells make it into being a baby, but the vast majority do. If they don`t, it is because of some abnormal occurrence outside of the normal order. I have the potential to become rich. It probably won`t happen. That is potential. But with those cells, the VAST MAJORITY of the time they do grow into one thing... a living person. NEVER into something else. An egg or sperm cell on their own have the potential to become life. Once they`ve joined, its a done deal. Potential has been achieved.
  69. Profile photo of Umbobo
    Umbobo Male 40-49
    64 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 10:55 am
    But I`m actually a little torn on the issue, for one reason only. If a mother`s life is truly at risk, then of course a serious decision has to be made. That decision is personal, and should not be legislated. But if its just because someone doesn`t want to be accountable for what they`ve created... well, maybe it shouldn`t either. After all, someone without accountability, good sense and who is so selfish as to care so little for the life of their own child, is not likely to turn out to be the best parent anyway. Oh yeah, but there`s always adoption. So yeah, I think it should be legislated. Hell, I`ve got a pregnant cat that I adopted. Took her to the vet to make sure she was. Vet told me I could go on and have her fixed and abort the pregnancy. I couldn`t even do that, even though I don`t want kittens.
  70. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 11:39 am
    @AGit: I ONLY mentioned the Bible because someone else brought it up.
    I`m a Deist, eh?
    So the death penalty is `less` punishment? Ooo-kay...

    @Keyh: Excellent point! The % of pregnancies caused by rape is really low, and most "pro-lifers" quite reasonably agree an abortion should be allowed.

    @Patchy: That`s not how I read that passage, but whatevers, eh?
    DNA Tests are what separates two humans, correct? The Abortionist argument is that the fetus is "part of the woman`s body" correct? But if it has separate DNA, how can that be true?

    @BuckEyeJoe: There used to be a HUGE number of adoptions. Then came fertility drugs and abortion. NOW there`s an industry of getting children from other nations at vast expense to adopt. So which is `better`? I don`t know, but the will for people to adopt is clearly there, yes? People WOULD adopt more if it wasn`t so long, difficult and expensive to do.
  71. Profile photo of BuckeyeJoe
    BuckeyeJoe Male 40-49
    123 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 12:20 pm
    @5Cats,

    You are correct: you don`t know. And you are all over the place. Having a discussion with you is like trying to herd cats ;).
  72. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 1:14 pm
    I really didn`t want to get into this fray, but good ol` Andrew155 has been spewing his nonsense yet again...

    @Andrew155 says:
    "even Europe has stricter laws than us. Their laws would be considered KKK laws here."

    You do realize, I hope, that Europe is not a country? Lumping Europe`s abortion policies together is plain stupid, and your conclusion is nothing less than ludicrous.

    Of the roughly 47 countries that comprise Europe, NONE totally restrict abortions, two (Andorra and Ireland) allow abortions only to save the mother`s life, and five or six others compel you to state the reason for wanting the abortion (but they`re still allowed). The other 35+ countries have laws nearly identical to ours.

    Andrew155, please educate yourself before posting further inanities, m`kay?
  73. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 3:10 pm
    Either we are free to make our own choices. Or we give up freedom for the sake of not agreeing with some one els.

    Ohhh lets ask him about guns now! My how progressive of you freedom with your exceptions......
  74. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 13, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Gerry- Since you didn`t understand me, let me restate it.

    Like you said, you want to err on the side of caution. Which is reasonable. Since you can`t get pregnant and are unlikely to get someone pregnant, it is convenient for you to say life begins at conception.

    Maybe if you had more at steak (and religion was out of the picture), you would be more reasonable about the definition of when life starts.

    Don`t get me wrong here. If laws were written to make me happy, abortion wouldn`t be legal...but for other people, an abortion may be a tough but good decision.

    Laws shouldn`t be made to suit religion.
  75. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    March 17, 2014 at 1:31 am
    If Christians really DID go with what the bible says then........

    The bible mentions the "Breath of Life" no fewer than 38 times.

    So, biblically speaking, Life begins when the first breath is drawn.

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