It Goes Both Ways [Pic]

Submitted by: diemorondie 3 years ago in

Fun fact: sex is the number one cause of unwanted pregnancies.
There are 70 comments:
Female 543
Look at all these men debating things that will never effect them! Just a warning: male thoughts on abortion are completely irrelevant to women. Men can never become pregnant and therefore all of this debating as to what`s "right" and "wrong" is really just men thinking they know what`s best for the body of another person.

Personally, I would get an abortion without a second thought. Until the baby can live on its own, it`s just a parasite as far as I`m concerned. My body my choice means that MEN don`t get to decide what a woman does with her body. Nobody does.
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Male 579
Ok, but regardless of the circumstances of conception, once a woman is pregnant are there not two bodies? So who`s rights supercede who? Oh wait, you are saying they are not two seperate things? I won`t even argue that life begins at conception, but how can you argue they are not two seperate "things"? Is she just "woman" at tha point? Or is she "pregnant woman" at that point? It is tough to imagine anything worse than not defending the rights of those that cannot defend themselves. And IMHO, to defend those who cannot defend themselves is most noble, and to not do so is a definition of cruelty, IMHO.
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Male 6,077
@Draculya,
That sure sounds fair to me.
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Male 15,264
"Abortion is a woman`s choice, end of story, nobody should have the right to interfere."

Yes, however is the mother elects to have the child and the father has not consented to having the child carried to term, then she she should waive all claims of support.

If a child is born and the father is responsible for support then he should have equal access rights, in so far as legally possible.

If the woman is a registered sex offender or is otherwise unsafe to be around children, and if the father is responsible for the child`s maintenance, then he should have the option of sole custody with any of her visits supervised if possible.

Equal rights is equal rights.
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Male 15,832
@xavroche [quote">@OldOllie:Please provide reference link for your garbage statistics...[/quote">
Here, or here, or here.
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Male 243
Yikes, don`t tell that to the baby I`m guessing
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Male 1,059
They don`t have to give up anything, just NOT COMMIT MURDER. But I guess that`s too much to ask.
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Female 2,415
Whoops, sorry, maybe I should clarify for you, megrendel: I do believe a man should have a say. (Not sure why but the seriousness of the relationship would be key in determining in how much of a say the guy would be allowed.) I really do; I just hope that the man that wishes to keep the baby, when the woman doesn`t, is ready to raise it by himself, as a woman might be expected to do if she did want the kid and the man didn`t.
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Female 2,415
@megrendel, read what I first wrote please, then ask that again if you need to.
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Male 1,745
@spanerbulb I don`t interfere with people`s decisions in any matter I can think of, but I still have an opinion and share it if I think it`s constructive. Some people get completely silly with subject of abortion to the point where a guy can`t even talk about it (except only to say guys opinion, including the father, doesn`t matter at all). That makes no sense at all and annoying.
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Male 8,543
Wendypants-[quote]Abortion IS a woman`s choice[/quote]
spanerbulb-[quote]Abortion is a woman`s choice[/quote]
What choice does the man have?

If a woman doesn`t want a child, she doesn`t have to be responsible for it.

Are you willing to afford the same choice to the man?
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Male 3,147
"Abortion is a woman`s choice, end of story, nobody should have the right to interfere."


Agreed, however I do find it a bit unfair that if a guy says to a girl... I don`t want the child and anything to do with it...personally I`d rather the child wasn`t born etc etc. He is then still liable for the financial upbringing of the child he didn`t want and had absolutely no say so after the conception that it was born or not. It would only be fair if both parents had a say, neither did, or one could defer totally to the other`s opinion but completely free themselves of any obligation brought about by the other partner`s decision.
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Male 1,243
Abortion is a woman`s choice, end of story, nobody should have the right to interfere.
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Male 39,916

madduck, none of the free contraceptives you mention have anything to do with the viability of a fetus. Yeah "fetus"! It is now easier and cheaper to get birth control than at any other time in history. And yet idiots still have unwanted pregnancies.

The fetus is viable. It is doing exactly what it should be at that stage in it`s life. Just like now, my body is falling apart. Totally normal for my stage of development.

You`re holding up pretty well though.
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Male 1,421
Pro-lifers have this weird concept in their mind that offering easy abortion would immediately cause pregnancies in mass scale. The same bunch also believes that there is no morality without god. Everyone in the world that can be said to have a sound mind will agree that abortion is not a birth control device. Everyone agrees on this (if not, there are other serious issues making that person most likely not fit to have sex).

But mostly it`s about one group refusing to live in a world that doesn`t revolve around them.
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Female 4,447
I think there`s a lot of people in this world who need to mind their own business, yeah?
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Female 8,052
Gerry- until you have free and accessible contraception with good sex ed in every school you abortion rates will be high. Educate kids- properly- make the morning after pill easy to get- everywhere. Make condoms available in schools, get sex workers linked to good drop in centres- do that first THEN argue about when a foetus is viable. but most abortion happens early- when a foetus is NOT viable in any way. The late terms tend to be done for foetal abnormality..
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Male 150
gerry

Gee, you seem to be ignoring my posts now. What`s the matter? You`ve no rebuttal once we take the debate out of your emotionally based wheelhouse?
lol
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Male 2,419
"It is, after all, a babies life at stake if you`re wrong."
And what if the baby gets ill and mother/father can`t afford healthcare? still a babies life at risk you know...
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Male 39,916

madduck - [quote]"There is no way you can consider a foetus a seperate being until it us properly viable"[/quote]
Yes I can. Just because someone is dependent on the mother doesn`t make him/her less of a person.

When someone can show definitive proof that at Such-n-Such a stage it is a person and before that it is not, then I will be onboard with abortion. Sadly neither scientist nor shaman can tell you with 100% certainty so I will err on the side of caution. It is, afterall, a babies life at stake if you`re wrong.
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Male 554
..don`t care, not getting prego
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Female 8,052
Thank You Wendy pants, luckily all arguments have no doubt been raised- this makes me so damn furious. To listen to these arguments you would think abortion involved ripping fully formed foetuses froma mother and hacking them to death. There is no way you can consider a foetus a seperate being until it us properly viable. This is just the usual bunch of bullies trying to tell women what they can and can`t do..
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Female 2,415
Abortion IS a woman`s choice and I feel that if she is in an actual relationship the man should be allowed to help in making the choice (though the final decision should be hers until we have the skills to make the man carry the baby to term if he`s against aborting).
BUT!!!!
abortion should not be used as a form of contraception!! I`m pro-choice all right but the women who do use abortion as such sickens me. In that respect, I fully support the idea of "If you don`t want kids, don`t fu*k".
To try and remove it as an option for all women because of the stupid actions of a few is also ridiculous!
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Male 1,341
If during the pregnancy the man decides that he would like it terminated, and the woman wants to keep it, the man should be void of any child support. Anyone in a serious relationship that wanted children shouldn`t have any issues, and if later they are separated, the man wouldn`t be able to go back and "change his mind" about it, that decision has to be made during the early weeks of pregnancy.

Just my thoughts on it.
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Female 4,084
@paddy215.

i wonder if you`ll change your opinion when you knock up your girlfriend and are faced with paying child support for 18 years.
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Male 5,094
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Male 1,678
Unless you were forced to have sex then you haven`t a leg to stand on. Speaking of legs, don`t want a baby? Keep them closed!
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Male 1,745
Here`s a novel idea, things we decide do can have lifelong consequences. I`m for abortion in cases of rape and other unforeseeable situations. If you accept the 1 in 2 chance, then do the pull-out method or other timing stuff. If you accept the 1 in a thousand chance, use a condom. if you want more like 1 in 100,000 use two forms of birth control. if you absolutely CANNOT entertain the idea of having a baby with this person, guess what, you shouldn`t be having sex with them. Period. Isn`t that simple enough.
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Female 184
I`ve only done a cursory glance of the comments because I`m trying to keep my blood pressure down, but the one viewpoint that seems to keep cropping up is "she made her bed and she should lie in it" - in other words, she chose to have sex therefore she should carry the resulting child to term.

What about rape victims? Should they be forced to carry their rapists child to term? Because sure as heck the rapist won`t be paying child support for the baby. Would the rapist even WANT rights involved with his child? Probably not.

Where abortion is used as birth control this is wrong. Women should be better educated to take better control over their bodies and their choices when it comes to sex. But if it`s for her mental or physical health to abort the foetus - BACK THE F*CK OFF. No, the foetus does not have more rights than the mother.
Thank you, now I have to go and take some meds
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Male 2,419
ah the "prolifers" will be having a field day.
considering how you protest against helping people in need be it through social security, education or affordable healthcare. You can take you ill used "prolife" stance away and just admit you want to control wat other people do to their body. if you really are prolife you have a lot of work to do, and a lot of opinions to change. but yeah i know.. i wrong... sure...
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Male 233
Personally I was a bit confused by the analogy. Just in terms of saying the rights of a fetus are less than those of a corpse. Kinda sounds like an argument against.
That said, I am 100% in favor of abortion so long as it`s not used in place of birth control
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Male 150
ReBoot

lol i wasn`t going to mention it, but....
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Male 233
Gerry1of1
" it totally undermines the opponents point. NOT"

Well he may be using buzzwords, but you`re arguing like a 8 year old.
Just sayin.
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Male 150
SavageChef

where is that legal?
that doesn`t sound very legal. Isn`t there some stage past which you cannot abort except for the mother`s health?
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Male 150
[quote]deal with the inconvenience of children[/quote]

Inconvenience, life-altering event. Yeah, pretty much the same thing, right?
lol
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Female 2,691
You know what really sickens me? (I know, you asked, so I`m going to tell you)
This whole thing called Late Term Abortions. I mean, seriously. If you are eight or nine months along, then just deliver the baby and give it up for adoption, since you are clearly not anything resembling a mother. Why, why, why, would you have a perverted excuse for a doctor tear your baby apart? You freak.
You freak. I cannot believe that this is not illegal. This is murder.
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Male 150
gerry

[quote]You made the statement, justify it. [/quote]


uh...no, no i didn`t. I never said she MUST have an abortion. what i said (quite unambiguously)was that making a woman carry a child to term is dictating something that she MUST do with her body. You all caught up now?

[quote]Because she is an adult who made choices with consequences.[/quote]

lol sorry, guy. That is not how rights work and we both know it. You`ve made an emotionally based assertion to defend your viewpoint but let`s not pretend it has any kind of legitimacy beyond that, yeah?
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Male 714
The argument makes so many logical contortions, and the pious tone its written in makes it even more laughable how someone deemed this such a devastating, final statement that they screencapped it and posted it on here. The best part; dead people can have a say in how they are treated but a fetus cannot. Which has more to lose? And to draw a comparison with someone giving blood so save a life, with a life being ended so that a woman doesn`t have to deal with the inconvenience of children is pathetic.

I don`t want to pretend that i have all the answers here. There may be some cases where there is a genuine need to abort to save the mother`s life, but most are because people don`t want to take responsability for their actions.
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Male 150
[quote]"strawman" ... the new buzz word.[/quote]

lol sorry i upset you. In this case it is exactly appropriate. You attempted to attribute an argument to me that i had not made and then refuted it. well done, champ.

As for the rest, as i`ve mentioned more than once: there`s a big difference between being allowed or not allowed to do something and being forced to do something, yeah?
Moving on...
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Male 4,891


Let`s not confuse 2 seprate issues.

Being forced
and being allowed to use/do/treat your body how you want.

Regardless, whether "allowed" or "forced", each specific issue needs to be looked at individually. Abortion is not the same as eating or smoking.
This post if full of horrible analogy.
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Male 226
@drworm2002: That`s the dumbest "argument" I`ve ever heard.

The choice of the woman is to have sex, or not have sex. That`s the choice and there are consequences and responsibilities related to that choice.

I love how you can justify it being up to the woman whether or not the child is born, but the man has no say in it and needs to support the child if the woman takes it to term. Where are the father`s "rights" in this, if we`re going to make this morally gender neutral debate into a man vs woman debate.
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Male 662
I love how its all these men that are discussing what a woman can do with their bodies. Until you can get pregnant you should not have one word to say about what a woman should be able to do with their bodies. That`s it. There is no arguing. There are no statistics. Men who try to argue anything about abortion are wrong.
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Male 39,916

[quote]"Can you sell a kidney? Nope.
Can you put heroin in your body? Nope.
Can you rent your body out for sex? In most places, Nope. "
a list of things that you`re not allowed to do with your body, not at all the same as something you MUST do with your body "[/quote]
Why "MUST" she have the abortion? You say "MUST" like a medical need. It is not. It is a matter of choice/convenience. You made the statement, justify it.

[quote]"the Baby has more right to protection that the woman has to an abortion of convenience."
Why? What gives it more rights than the mother?[/quote]
Because she is an adult who made choices with consequences. The baby has had no choice and needs others to protect it.

It amazes me that people will defend killing babies. A warlord in Uganda kills off a village and all the children in it he`s a monster. But in Urban America they can justify killing as many babies as they want.
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Male 39,916

"strawman" ... the new buzz word. You can thow it out and it totally undermines the opponents point. NOT. Facts is facts. No one, neither man nor woman has the right to do any old damn thing they please, not even with their own body. Body Autonomy is not real. There are limits for everyone.
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Male 819
@OldOllie:Please provide reference link for your garbage statistics....
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Male 819
@Andrew: Your examples are faulty for the following reason:

It is in fact legal to inject a nonlethal substance into your body, to surgical remove one of your kidneys and to have sex with another person.

What is illegal is drug trafficking(and hence drug POSSESSION), organ trafficking(and hence SELLING your kidney) and human trafficking(and hence SELLING sex). Therefore it really has nothing to do with body autonomy.

The only flagrant example of the judicial system impeding on body autonomy is not having the right to take your own life.
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Male 15,832
The vast majority of women who have abortions are Democrats, and the vast majority their aborted children would have grown up to be Democrats.

So, ladies, if you`re a Democrat, and you want an abortion, call me if you need a ride.
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Male 150
Honest inquiry.
What do we think would be the result if abortions were made illegal? Would we stop see abortion or would we see relatively equal instances of DIY abortion? More young, single mothers, children in the foster care system?

Perhaps there are stats of some kind on this subject....
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Male 3,231
Just remember, Only Pro life activists cary jars with dead babies in public.
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Male 150
[quote]If you don`t want a baby, don`t have sex.[/quote]

Inflammatory language aside, that`s simply not realistic. That will never happen.

You clearly have an opposing viewpoint but what the article was "really saying" was that people have a right to control what happens to their body.
Shocking! lol
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Male 3,231
yippeee! an abortion flame fest. what fun.
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Male 2,579
What this article is REALLY saying.

"I want to have sex with people that I don`t want kids with. If that sex leads to (the purpose of sex) a baby, I want to kill the child."

If you don`t want a baby, don`t have sex.
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Male 150
Andrew155

Uhhh....no. simply throwing "ergo" into the sentence does not mean it follows logically. Explain how saying "you cannot sell your kidney" is the same as saying "you must, against your will, carry a child to term"
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Male 2,578
For the sake of argument, soloman: so you`re not allowed to sell the kidney or do drugs, ergo you don`t have bodily autonomy and you`re not allowed to interfere with a fetus inside of you.

That`s the logic. Abortion is something the logic would say you`re not allowed to do with your body. You flipped it.
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Male 150
Andrew155

Maybe you inferred it but it was not implied.
It should have read "because the couple was too stupid to use birth control"
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Male 150
[quote]Can you sell a kidney? Nope.
Can you put heroin in your body? Nope.
Can you rent your body out for sex? In most places, Nope.
[/quote]

a list of things that you`re not allowed to do with your body, not at all the same as something you MUST do with your body

[quote]the Baby has more right to protection that the woman has to an abortion of convenience.[/quote]

Why? What gives it more rights than the mother?
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Male 2,578
Sgt Soloman - t`s not really sexist because it`s an implied mutual decision. It`s not like the guy can decide one way and the girl can decide another way and they`ll still be doing it, that won`t work.

And I would say most of them don`t happen by sheer "accident", every single one I know of was a result of being really stupid. Sometimes they even intend to use condoms, but decide not to if the alcohol is preventing the little boy`s erection. That`s how stupid these people often are.
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Male 150
lol calm your tits, gerry. before you get too caught up in your strawman i was just pointing out the obvious mistakes in your statement
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Male 39,916

The myth of "Body Atonomy"

Can you sell a kidney? Nope.
Can you put heroin in your body? Nope.
Can you rent your body out for sex? In most places, Nope.

You cannot, in fact, do just anything you want with your body. There are limits. I would say the Baby has more right to protection that the woman has to an abortion of convenience.
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Male 39,916

@ sgt Sol - Correct there are 2 people. and I hold the man 100% accountable for his actions. And the woman 100% accountable for hers. But we`re talking about abortions here and the man has no say-so in that so why bring him into it?

As for contraceptive failures.... very VERY small number. The vast majority are abortions for convenience. Next you`s bring up rape or incest. Also very few abortions are because of those reasons. I`m talking about the 99.9% of abortions that are avoidable.
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Male 150
"Bodily autonomy" is important. People who argue that abortion should not happen are arguing for the preeminence of the "rights" of some forming tissues over the mother`s own. Pregnancy is a big deal and it should never become legal to force a woman to carry a baby to term.

The government has much to say about what you must not do with or to your body but it has no right to dictate things that you must do
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Male 150
@gerry
[quote]because the woman who was too stupid to use birth control [/quote]

that was a) sexist ( the woman is not the only one having sex here) and b) inaccurate since many pregnancies happen as the result of birth control failure
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Male 2,578
I don`t care what side of the issue you fall on, that is a god-awful analogy.
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Male 3,209
... I`m curious what the #2 cause of unwanted pregnancies is.
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Male 638
Agree it`s a bad analogy,while you don`t have to save a life it`s different than taking it away. If someone had a deadly infectious disease they can not refuse to get treated or quarantined and go on infecting people.
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Male 8,543
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Male 40,752
Poor argument, poorly made.

Just fyi: there are people (so-called feminists) out there that believe every act of heterosexual sex is `rape`. I have no idea why. By their standard? All pregnancy except artificial insemination is caused `by rape` and therefor unrestricted abortion should be a right.

There`s kooks on both sides of the discussion, eh?
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Male 39,916

So the baby has no Body Autonomy. He or She must give up their life because the woman who was too stupid to use birth control cannot be inconvenienced by the consequences of her actions.

I weep for the future....


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Male 226
Bad analogy is bad.

In the analogy, another person was placed in a situation due to the other person`s autonomy.

For abortion you`re creating a life and then rejecting responsibility for something that you chose to do, and in doing so, you`re destroying a life (at some point during the gestation process).

A better analogy would be that you`re the parent in that situation and you`re claiming financial autonomy and refusing to pay for your child`s medical bills and claiming that it is illegal to make you give money to another person.
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Female 648
Link: It Goes Both Ways [Pic] [Rate Link] - Fun fact: sex is the number one cause of unwanted pregnancies.
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