Gun Laws? [Pic]

Submitted by: SweepOfDeath 3 years ago in

Tell me more! The interwebz has invaded your papers...
There are 75 comments:
Female 4,210
If I were even just a minute`s worth of distraction until the big dogs arrived, I`d gladly have been there to keep those babies safe. :(
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Male 6,227
@ Mel: Well, I`ll tell you one thing. I certainly wish *you* were at Columbine or Sandy Hook or Aurora. My family is from Connecticut and in the wake of Sandy Hook, the grief in that small state was overwhelming. I don`t think words can describe it.
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Female 4,210
Squrlz n Loo: I agree wholeheartedly! But you can`t restrict/deny all because of few, thus the *need* for safety and familiarity classes & education on firearms usage, rather than "ban the evil guns and idiots that love them!" tirades. Yes, its my Right to possess firearms, but *I* have a responsibility to care for that Right and not take it lightly or flippantly. I make sure my tools are cared for and my skills are honed else what the heck is the point in carrying?

Joe Average is NOT likely to have any kind of proactive reaction to a chaotic dangerous situation without said training/education and it will likely be reactive and detrimental. (see training ref heh)

No one can say for certain any kind of outcome, especially when you have human beings in the mix, but an undeniable possibility is that if ONE person had a gun at Columbine or Sandy Hook or Aurora... just ONE, things could have ended far differently and less tragically. Isn`t that be
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Male 6,227
@ Lauriloo: I dunno. If Mel`s a former firearms instructor, I`d take her word for it if she says she could hit a target even in the midst of a chaotic situation. I don`t think it`s possible for anyone to provide proof of that ability on here, as you seem to be requesting.

@ MelCervini: Would you agree with one of the general ideas Lauriloo`s been positing: Most people who are not getting regular and frequent firearms instruction would have a hard time using their weapon competently in an unexpected and chaotic situation? That`s an innocent question I`m putting to you, by the way; I`m not presuming to know the truth one way or the other. But didn`t I once see a study where they trained people with fake guns, then staged a sudden random-shooter event--and even with recent training, most of the people messed up? Anyone know the video I`m thinking of?
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Male 2,673
You`re actually demanding that a Marine provide evidence that they are proficient in the use of firearms.

The sky must look a particularly nice shade of green in your world Loo.
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Female 1,803
Face it, hardcore gun owners are the same as hardcore religious people. They will never accept anyone telling them their faith in a gun or God saving them from harm isn`t sensible, even when there is plenty of evidence of the fallibility of both.
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Female 1,803
No, MelCervini, I don`t think that. Although I`m willing to bet that most gun owners aren`t very well trained, certainly not on a continual basis to remain skilled, and if they had to use an AR-15 they would need to shoot repeatedly and wildly in order to actually hit the intended target, which would put innocent people in danger.

The point I was trying to make is that any claim by a gun owner saying if they had had their gun with them when "X" killing happened, they could have taken out the killer and saved all those lives, is a big steaming load of delusional BS. You have made that claim multiple times but have produced no evidence that you would be able to perform that well under pressure and in practice, even police officers can`t so I call BS.
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Female 4,210
Okay.. Ive been quiet on this one because I spewed all over that other thread, but the flip flopping here has opened my cake-hole once more...err.. (cake fingers since im at a keyboard?) I have to know something first... Loo.. do you think that if you have an AR-15 with a fully loaded high-capacity magazine in it and you pull the trigger and that magazine will empty on the first trigger pull and will suddenly start strafing the area wildly? I`m honestly asking, because it sounds like that`s what you think happens.
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Female 1,803
"And that is why lawful citizens need `extended magazines` for self-defense... fyi."

Ah, so they can spray bullets everywhere and hope to kill something in the general vicinity. Got it. /sarcasm

"High capacity magazines have rarely been used by mass killers. Banning them stops nothing. "

Well, when all you have to do is shoot into a crowd of people and kill ANYONE, it`s pretty easy. My point was to the people on here who seem to think if only people had a gun at these scenes they could take out the killer and somehow not a few bystanders in the process. Ever stop to think that if you start shooting too people will think you are WITH the killer?
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Male 40,414
[quote]Even trained police suck at shooting criminals under stressful conditions.[/quote]

@lauriloo: And that is why lawful citizens need `extended magazines` for self-defense... fyi.

Fact is? High capacity magazines have rarely been used by mass killers. Banning them stops nothing.

Meanwhile? Taking freedoms away from lawful citizens remains a bad thing!! Easy to see what the `proper` course of action is, correct?
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Male 15,832
@lauriloo: Is this your daughter?

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Male 14,331
@lauriloo

[quote]The grey area is what THING "shall not be infringed". I have no problem with a well-regulated militia having guns.[/quote]

Except it says the right of THE PEOPLE in there not the militia.
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Male 6,227
(Cont`d)

Lastly, another caution. Do yourself a favor and do NOT come back at me trying to pick apart that statement above. Because you submit a lot of great content, I`ve been very patient with a post of yours that would have gotten you banned outright on many websites.
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Male 6,227
@ Richanddead: "Therefore I`m submitting a video on how to make a hidden wrist flamethrower and will await to see the verdict."

I`ve watched the video and I`ll give you my thoughts; of course, Kitteh will make the final call.

I`d probably give the video a pass. The flamethrower isn`t being presented as a weapon but more as a stage device or gimmick for a magic show. The presenter also does not provide a parts list, a schematic, or step-by-step instructions on how to build it (which is why a number of commenters on the video were requesting a how-to follow-up). That said, I certainly wouldn`t want any teenager in my house building such a thing.

If you`re still struggling with the nuances of my caution, I can simplify it:

Do not post on IAB any plans or detailed instructions for building guns, bombs, or any device designed to maim or kill.

(Cont`d)
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Female 1,803
Study about hit ratios for various police forces.

Even trained police suck at shooting criminals under stressful conditions. NYPD from 1990-2000 15% average gunfight hit probability. Accuracy plummets over 2 yards from perp.
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Female 1,803
"Maybe that`s because "...shall not be infringed." doesn`t leave a lot of gray area."

The grey area is what THING "shall not be infringed". I have no problem with a well-regulated militia having guns. Just not any crazy yahoo who wants an arsenal in their basement in case of the zombie apocalypse. And I want consequences for people who are careless with their guns and other people get hurt.

DromEd- I think it`s fair to ask someone who claims to be able to shoot accurately in an extremely stressful situation without killing innocent people what actual experience they have to base that on. Why is that so unreasonable? Do you really think shooting at a gun range is the same as under basically combat conditions? Even policemen miss when they shoot and they have mor
Male 15,832
@lauriloo [quote]I think one of the fundamental differences between pro-gun owning and pro gun control people is that pro-gun owning people tend to see things in black and white. [/quote]
Maybe that`s because "...shall not be infringed." doesn`t leave a lot of gray area.
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Male 40,414
[quote]Therefore it would be harder for anyone, criminal or otherwise to get them. Period.[/quote]
So @holygod thinks rights are meaningless?
Duely noted: Fascist.

Just ignore the fact that it would never, ever work, eh? Never has, even once, in human history.

Unless you shipped those nasty legal gun owners off to `re-education camps` a la Joe Stalin. Or Chairman Mao... for the good of the masses!

[quote]This isn`t complicated.[/quote]

Totalitarianism never is...
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Male 2,673
Yeah Loo, that`s why you spewed nonsense to a US Marine in the other recent gun thread about accidental gun deaths and education to prevent same.
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Female 1,803
I think one of the fundamental differences between pro-gun owning and pro gun control people is that pro-gun owning people tend to see things in black and white. If a law or action doesn`t stop ALL of something it isn`t worth doing at all. For SOME of them, if they have an issue with someone or worried about a break in, they go straight to shooting them when other things could produce good outcomes and no one gets killed. Pro gun control people AREN`T for taking away all guns, like the other side likes to claim. We see the spectrum of what can be done to lower gun deaths (lower, not eliminate) and want to try reasonable compromises to see if they help the situation.
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Male 4,099
@HolyGod: Then I take back the part about hunting. But you did reference the ease to get a AR-15. Well you can make one of those for $215, there are plans on the web already.

I don`t quite know what you mean by "affect" do you simply mean something would change, as in a different weapon or the amount of crime and violence would be impacted. Because I would disagree with the latter.
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Male 9,543
Richanddead

Read my posts. I`m not advocating for any laws. I`m just arguing against the idea that laws wouldn`t in any way affect criminals because criminals don`t follow laws.

I own a gun.
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Male 4,099
@Squrlz4Sale:
"Bear in mind that this website has no age-restrictive firewall."

I understand insurance concerns, I will respect the guidelines previously laid out and I won`t show any more plans in response posts. (shakes paw)

Yet I still fail to see how my posts instructions were different than the others. Therefore I`m submitting a video on how to make a hidden wrist flamethrower and will await to see the verdict.

P.S: Thankyou, @kitteh9lives didn`t look like she was taking any prisoners. Learn well from her...


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Male 6,227
(Cont`d)

There`s certainly some truth to the Montaigne quote you`ve cited--and if a child or adult really wants either type of content referenced above, he or she will find it--elsewhere. And I`m okay with that. I`m a mod at IAB and I can influence only what and where I can.

PS: Your "Kill Bill" GIF for Kitteh in the other thread was hilarious. :-)
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Male 6,227
@ Richanddead: Thanks for self-deleting the post; I appreciate it.

In terms of the photo, it struck me as borderline but passable. The slap gun plans, however, were clearly beyond the pale, thus the caution.

In terms of the links you`ve referenced, I don`t have a problem with videos or articles showing that people can and do build their own weapons. That`s interesting and newsworthy. I do have a problem, however, with someone on IAB providing the actual plans for building those weapons.

Bear in mind that this website has no age-restrictive firewall. Anyone posting on here should be mindful that the content can be--and is--read by thousands of minors on a daily basis. While I`m fine with some "R"-rated material, anything rated "X" is out. Top of the list would be pornography. Close on its heels, to my mind, would be instructions for building any device intended to maim or kill.

(Cont`d)
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Male 4,099
@HolyGod:

But AR-15`s are hardly ever used to commit any crime. HandGuns are responsible for the vast majority and there are millions and millions of new ones every year. Not to mention how many are passed within families. Let alone how easy it is to make a large clip zip gun, I only pointed out the others because you don`t need to aim as much with shotgun ammo.

"Therefore it would be harder for anyone, criminal or otherwise to get them. Period."

We`ve already seen that anyone who can make it to Home Depot, radio shack, or even just their backyard can make an arsenal. Not to mention if they wanted to make bombs, gas, traps, knives, flame throwers, grenades, ect.

And what about Hunting? Deer populations are already past pre-colonial levels, the nutria is destroying marshes all up and down the east coast, and wild boar are always a problem in rural areas, let alone the people who live in places like Alaska.
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Male 9,543
5cats

"What you suggest is to stop -legal- people from -legally- buying guns? That will somehow "make it harder" criminals from acquiring them?

Jesus Tap-dancing Christ..."

It is actually baffling to me that you aren`t grasping this.

Right now I can go to most gun stores or even Walmart and buy an ar15 type weapon.

If they were outlawed all those places would stop selling them.

Therefore it would be harder for anyone, criminal or otherwise to get them. Period.

This isn`t complicated.
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Male 4,099
@Squrlz4Sale:



Nice to see your still talking to me. In good faith, I`ll take it down just for you and accept your claim of neutrality. But what about the picture before it? It shows almost everything afterall. What about the previous posts about of gun plans that get past security or where to get them?



Link
Link
Link

...theres more but you get the point.


Remember "To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne
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Male 6,227
(This is a do-over of my original caution to remove my sarcasm, which was out of place. My apologies: I`m still figuring this mod role out.)

@ Richanddead: Hey, I understand you`re making the point that crude guns aren`t hard to put together and there are an abundance of plans online. But I really don`t think we should be publishing zip gun plans on IAB--for the same reason I would object to publishing plans for homemade fireworks, homemade guillotines, or homemade grenades.

This site is visited by thousands of teenage boys daily. Having been one once, I know it doesn`t take much to inspire them to blow themselves up.

So, please: No more weapon plans. Thanks.
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Male 560
@HolyGod
[quote] Which means if certain guns or accessories, like high capacity mags, are outlawed then all the sources for them will stop making them and carrying them and the criminals won`t have access to them anymore. [/quote]

As long as their is a military or other countries manufacturing guns there will be gun producers. And they will get intot he country. It will be harder to get them but they will still be able to. Especially a country like the USA with the amount of borders you guys have. UK has guns although it doesn`t have a lot of legal firearm types. The other issue is the USA has a lot of guns, In my opinion you wouldn`t be able to effectively get rid of them all now...
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Male 6,227
@ 5Cats: I`m trying to be impartial in my moderator role. So far I`ve tapped one well-known rightie on the shoulder, one well-known leftie, and issued a general caution (this last one) that applied to individuals on both sides of the aisle.

When I see someone go over the line with you (bear in mind there`s only one of me and a lot of threads on here), I`ll be sure to throw a yellow flag down on the play.
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Male 4,099
"Bet homemade guns shoot great! Considering the average man can`t fix his own toilet, I`m not too worried about homemade guns."

Come down to Baltimore there are zips everywhere. Just stick a shotgun shell in a pipe, tie it to a piece of wood, push a nail in the end piece and attach a rubber band. No worry about aiming then and only costs about $25 and a few minutes to assemble.


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Male 14,331
[quote]Bet homemade guns shoot great! Considering the average man can`t fix his own toilet, I`m not too worried about homemade guns.[/quote]

LOL!! Former plumber here soooo ya... Fathers a machinist too want to take a guess what they make guns in?
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Female 1,803
"Guns can be manufactured with a lathe too."

Bet homemade guns shoot great! Considering the average man can`t fix his own toilet, I`m not too worried about homemade guns.
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Male 40,414
@Squrlz4: I get insulted regularly by a certain group of IABers, I hope one day you`ll stand up for me too...
I suppose you`ve included me in your statement too :-) thx!

@HolyGod: What you suggest is to stop -legal- people from -legally- buying guns? That will somehow "make it harder" criminals from acquiring them?

Jesus Tap-dancing Christ...
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Male 14,331

They also had police officers teach kids at a young age gun safety with actual guns bet there was less accidents and definitely less school shootings. Now they just say guns are bad and scary stay away from them cause that worked so well with drugs....
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Male 10,855
@lauriloo

Guns can be manufactured with a lathe too.
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Male 418
didn`t we just talk about guns in another post? No, that was Gun SAFETY....
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Female 1,803
"Yes next you`ll try outlawing/restricting lathe use."

Hard to kill people when you only have bullets. They don`t work well when thrown by hand. BUT, they might come in handy when you need to attach stud plate boards on concrete to build houses for homeless people ;)
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Male 10,855
[quote] if it weren`t possible for people to make their own bullets[/quote]

Yes next you`ll try outlawing/restricting lathe use.
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Female 1,803
@maggierose78 interesting idea if it weren`t possible for people to make their own bullets
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Male 10,855
[quote]I said it would make it harder to get them, which isn`t up for debate[/quote]

In the short term, yes. But even those controls will eventually be bypassed.
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Male 15,190
Americans are funny. You think killing each other is good for your nation.
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Male 6,227
@ Lauriloo: LOL. Well, I was addressing the people who are making the insults, not the ones who are receiving them.

Your comment underscores an important point though. The person who keeps her cool in these exchanges usually comes out on top--or at the very least, gains sympathy among the readers.
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Female 1,803
I appreciate the sentiment, Squrlz4Sale, but I take the insults as proof that what I say is striking a nerve and that makes me very happy! And it shows what kind of people gun nuts are so it`s a win-win.
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Male 6,227
A number of the comments made in this thread would have been stronger if they didn`t refer to other IAB`ers as *stupid* or as a *freaking idiot*. Gun control is a passionate issue, obviously; but a civil response--even in the face of rudeness--is more effective than insults and anger.

~Squrlz steps off soapbox~
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Female 688
How about make guns dirt cheap, but charge $200 - $400 dollars per bullet; rather than making bullets dirt cheap and charging $200 - $400 dollars (or more yes I know, but it is only an estimate from a person who has never purchased a gun in her life) per gun.
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Male 9,543
5cats

"Am I understanding you here?
You want to stop USA gun makers from making guns, and that will stop criminals from illegally acquiring them?"

No. You aren`t understanding me as usual.

1. I don`t want to stop anyone from making guns. I never once said that.

2. I never said the hypothetical situation would stop criminals from getting guns. I said it would make it harder to get them, which isn`t up for debate.
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Male 9,543
Cajun

"Just like prohibition"

You don`t think it was harder to get alcohol during prohibition than after it?

Come the f.uck on.

I didn`t say it would eliminate guns. I said it would make it harder to get them. That isn`t up for debate. If walmart doesn`t sell them then they would be harder to get.
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Male 40,414
@HolyGod: Am I understanding you here?
You want to stop USA gun makers from making guns, and that will stop criminals from illegally acquiring them?

[quote]Without a law abiding company manufacturing the guns and accessories the criminals would lose their supply[/quote]

You`ve surpassed @lauriloo for saying the DUMBEST thing all day!
If you ban legally made guns from being bought by legally allowed people, criminals would suddenly be disarmed! Genius!

Like all the HEROIN in the USA, which is illegally imported? Criminals will still get guns, dude.

See: heroin is not made in the USA, none of it. Cocaine too. Zero domestic production... yet criminals still have tons!

Freaking idiot...
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Male 1,059
McGovern1981 FTW! You totally pwned, my friend. :D
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Male 10,855
[quote]Why have any laws then?[/quote]

Laws can only prescribe actions to be taken AFTER the fact. Even in the absence of laws order can be established.
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Male 10,855
[quote]You don`t think that makes sense?[/quote]

Of COURSE it doesn`t! Just like prohibition, the law is NOT going stop them from making guns. It will simply become a black market.
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Male 9,543
Cajun

"Your retort makes abso-fu<king-lutely no sense whatsoever. How do you expect the government to enforce a law when the very people enable them to do so are outlawed?"

I don`t understand what you are saying. However if you think what I said makes no sense then you don`t understand what I said.

The argument is laws don`t work because criminals don`t follow laws. So if you outlawed the ar15 for example it wouldn`t Mayer because criminals would break the law.

My point is that the gun manufacturers and fun sellers WOULD follow the law and stop making them and carrying them. After a few years it would become VERY difficult for a criminal to get a hold of one.

Therefore a fun law would be effective whether criminals followed it or not.

You don`t think that makes sense?
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Female 1,803
Why have any laws then? are gun people anarchists?
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Male 14,331
[quote]Living in Germany, I can tell you that I don`t need to fear being shot because nobody needs to shoot me to prevent being shot first, or into his back while fleeing. [/quote]

Living in the US I can tell you that I don`t need to fear being put into a concentration camp because nobody needs to put me into a oven to prevent "financial repression" that and people would start fighting back, or into our backs while fleeing cause people would stay. How many people died in that "gun free" utopia again?
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Male 387
Living in Germany, I can tell you that I don`t need to fear being shot because nobody needs to shoot me to prevent being shot first, or into his back while fleeing.

If I imagine myself to be a criminal in the US, and if a homeowner would discover me breaking in, I`d probably hide and try to shoot him first.
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Male 14,331
[quote]The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Your solution is to disarm the good guy. What the f*** are YOU smoking?[/quote]

That about sums it up bad people do bad things lets punish those who try to follow the law... It`ll help I swear said the politician surrounded by a platoon of men with sub machine guns.....
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Male 15,832
[quote]WTF are you being serious or did you forget to take your pills again?[/quote]
I guess you never noticed that every multiple-victim public shooting in the last 50 years -- with only a single exception -- has taken place in a gun-free zone.

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Your solution is to disarm the good guy. What the f*** are YOU smoking?
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Male 10,855
@HolyGod

Your retort makes abso-fu<king-lutely no sense whatsoever. How do you expect the government to enforce a law when the very people enable them to do so are outlawed? Does the government get a special exemption? If that be the case then you are only making invitation for the government`s enforcers to misbehave.

[quote]I thought you were capable of intelligent debate. You have been proving me wrong lately.[/quote]

Look who`s talking.
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Male 15,832
[quote]Without a law abiding company manufacturing the guns and accessories the criminals would lose their supply.

Quadruple face palm to you sir.

Frankly, I always thought you were a crotchety, mean old, f.uck, but I never thought you were stupid. I thought you were capable of intelligent debate. You have been proving me wrong lately.[/quote]
Right, because all the gun manufacturers in the world are located right here in the USA. If we can just shut them down, there won`t be any more weapons to be had.



The difference between you and me is that I`ve always known you were stupid, and you keep proving it over and over again.
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Male 1,803
You Americans carry on as you are. I quite like the UK laws.
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Male 7,825
@Oldollie "The only people who "allow" murders to happen are those who take guns away from citizens who might otherwise stop them."

WTF are you being serious or did you forget to take your pills again?
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Male 2,579
The CIA imports most of the heroin
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Male 2,578
Does this really have to become another gun debate? Don`t you guys get deja-vu when this happens every other day?
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Male 9,543
OldOllie

"Right, because that has worked so well for drugs."

Remember where i said "gun manufacturers, gun sellers, and most citizens do." right before the rest of the quote.

Drugs are grown, manufactured, transported, BY CRIMINALS, who of course, DON`T follow the laws.

Without a law abiding company manufacturing the guns and accessories the criminals would lose their supply.

Quadruple face palm to you sir.

Frankly, I always thought you were a crotchety, mean old, f.uck, but I never thought you were stupid. I thought you were capable of intelligent debate. You have been proving me wrong lately.
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Male 40,414
(sarc)
All America has to do is make murder illegal!
Problem solved.
(/sarc)

That`s pure, anti-gun `logic` at work. Just pass a law, presto! Saved the world.
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Male 15,832
[quote]Which means if certain guns or accessories, like high capacity mags, are outlawed then all the sources for them will stop making them and carrying them and the criminals won`t have access to them anymore. [/quote]
Right, because that has worked so well for drugs.

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Male 15,832
The only people who "allow" murders to happen are those who take guns away from citizens who might otherwise stop them.
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Male 9,543
Yeah! This again!

Criminals DON`T follow laws.

However, gun manufacturers, gun sellers, and most citizens do. Which means if certain guns or accessories, like high capacity mags, are outlawed then all the sources for them will stop making them and carrying them and the criminals won`t have access to them anymore.

I`m not saying we SHOULD do that, that`s a separate conversation, but PLEASE stop making this stupid argument.
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Male 97
Yes, living people *feel* better than dead ones.
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Male 2,100
The bad new American spirit. We can`t do it, so let`s double our PR on the matter and make more laws so we *feel* better.
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Male 97
The good old American spirit. We can`t do it, so let`s not try. I bear no responsibility for murders I allowed to happen. It`s every man for himself.
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Male 2,578
Memes don`t belong in real life.
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Male 938
Link: Gun Laws? [Pic] [Rate Link] - Tell me more! The interwebz has invaded your papers...
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