R.I.P. Madiba [Pic+]

Submitted by: McDuff73 3 years ago in

Freedom Fighter; Statesman; Inspiration; Legend.
There are 55 comments:
Male 573
Thought I`d take a look into IAB after a long absence, was reminded why I don`t come here anymore. PS Reddit is way better.
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Male 14,332
apartheid = bad
Replacing apartheid with another one that add murder to segregation = even worse and no hero of mine.
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Male 14,332
Sounds like excuses to celebrate a person who wasn`t what the media paints to be to me.
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Male 38,455

Paperduck made my point for me.
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Male 1,745
Uninformed folk, choose the type. Atrocities against Loyalists or Indians? Lots of accounts of each - of course not taught in schools...

Of course I support the US revolutionary war, but to think the founders led an uprising on the backs of ponies trotting over rainbows is just silly.
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Male 1,745
Francis Marion, for example, who led a band of militiamen in South Carolina ordered his men to fire upon a group of British regulars and American Loyalist Tories who had surrendered. A witness described it thus: "Numerous Tories died with their hands in the air."
In 1778, Georgia militiamen captured, stripped, and killed British Lt. John Kemp along with nine of his Loyalist men for refusing to renounce the king. And the term "lynching" comes from Col. Charles Lynch of Virginia, who became famous for extra-legal executions of Tory sympathisers and those who refused to take either side.

Even after the war the horror dished out to the Loyalist Tories and those who had chosen not to be involved was akin to anything that would come in the worst atrocities of the 20th century. Most had their land confiscated, others were beaten, had their feet nailed to planks, noses sliced open, feathered and tarred, their livestock stolen and wives raped. In some cases they
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Male 1,745
The following petition, signed by eleven (11) South Carolina Loyalist Officers, was submitted to the Right Honorable Lord George Germain for presentation to the Crown. The document probably was drafted by Thomas Fletchall, perhaps with the aid of Joseph Robinson (both are signatories thereto). The petition provides the names of approximately 300 Loyalists who were murdered by the Whigs during the Revolution. For referencing purposes, I have added a number to each name. John Mayfield, number 171, is the only person whose biography is posted to this web site. The petition has been previously published in several books concerning the Loyalists of South Carolina; however, the original document is located in the Public Record Office (PRO), London, Manuscript Reference CO5, Volume 82.
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Male 1,745
In 1807, Thomas Jefferson instructed his War Department that, should any Indians resist against America stealing Indian lands, the Indian resistance must be met with "the hatchet". Jefferson continued, "And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, " he wrote, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, "in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them". (Ibid)

In 1812, Jefferson said that American was obliged to push the backward Indians "with the beasts of the forests into the Stony Mountains". One year later Jefferson continued anti-Indian statements by adding that America must "pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach". (Ibid)
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Male 1,745
In 1779, George Washington instructed Major General John Sullivan to attack Iroquois people. Washington stated, "lay waste all the settlements around...that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed". In the course of the carnage and annihilation of Indian people, Washington also instructed his general not "listen to any overture of peace before the total ruin of their settlements is effected". (Stannard, David E. AMERICAN HOLOCAUST. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992. pp. 118-121.)

In 1783, Washington`s anti-Indian sentiments were apparent in his comparisons of Indians with wolves: "Both being beast of prey, tho` they differ in shape", he said. George Washington`s policies of extermination were realized in his troops behaviors following a defeat. Troops would skin the bodies of Iroquois "from the hips downward to make boot tops or leggings". Indians who survived the attacks later re-named the nation`s first president as
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Male 4,070
lol @whodat6484 can`t make his argument so he tells his critics to find some support for his ideas. EPIC FAIL.
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Male 38,455

McGovern, [quote]"That`s a bit of an Oxymoron. Tell me how peaceful SA is again?"[/quote]
I did not say they were better off self-governed. I said it`s not as easy as Saint or Sinner. Great men encompass both sides. They cross lines and barriers, that`s what makes them do great deeds. But it also leads them into great temptations and flaws. As a species we have to allow the great me to do what it is they do and stop condemning them for it. We cannot have JUST the good part. We have to take both sides.

And yes, SA sucks since they took over.
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Male 3,909
@Angilion & @McGovern1981 - It`s called GOOGLE, there`s a wealth of information right at your fingertips, you should try it sometime. I`m not going to hold your hands, you`re adults and can find the info on your own.
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Male 14,332
[quote]You have to take the terrorist with the peace maker[/quote]

That`s a bit of an Oxymoron. Tell me how peaceful SA is again?
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Male 38,455

Great men of great accomplishment also have great flaws. It`s a package deal and as much as we would like to seperate them, it can`t be done.

The Founders of the USA wanted freedom but owned slaves.
Abraham Lincoln freed slaves but personally didn`t like black people at all and was a manic depressive.
Einstein was a genius with a taste for incest.
Bill Clinton opened up a booming economy but couldn`t keep his zipper closed.

You have to take the terrorist with the peace maker. It`s all part of the same man. The important thing is, that an angry violent young man turned away from violence and became a proponent of peace.
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Male 14,332
@Angilion

Yet he accuses me of refusing to listen imagine that! It couldn`t be any more clear.

His definition of terrorist is vauge it puts a person fighting a government in the same boat as a person deliberately targeting any and as many civilians as possible. I wouldn`t consider those the same thing and the last is far from something that deserves admiration.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Just trying to educate you as to what really happened as opposed to the sanitized version you desperately cling to. It was a revolution, revolutions are bloody and many "innocent civilians" shed some of that blood at the hands of angry mobs.[/quote]

You have failed to provide examples of the founding fathers of the USA leading terrorist groups that murdered random civilians on a large scale solely for the purpose of creating fear.

You have failed to provide examples of the founding fathers of the USA torturing people in their own communities to death in order to terrorise other people into silence.

You have failed to provide support for your argument.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Angilion I`m grateful for my equal citizen status so I don`t have to think about how to attain freedom and not smug enough to criticize those who do.[/quote]

I`m criticising people who murder random civilians purely to create fear. You know, terrorists.

You`re free to support terrorism. Hopefully neither you nor anyone you care about will be victims of terrorism. Presumably you`ve been completely isolated from any acts of terrorism and therefore have no understanding of it.

I`m free to say you`re wrong.

If Mandela had been killing people who were actually to blame for apartheid, that would have been a different thing. But he killed any random civilians who were available for him to murder - that`s what bombing train stations and shopping centres is for.
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Male 3,909
@McGovern1981 - Okay, ignorance is bliss...

This is you right now.
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Male 14,332
[quote]Wake the f*ck up and accept the fact that they were doing the same thing. If the revolution had failed they all would have been sent to prison for life or executed. Remember, it`s the "winners" who write the history books from their point of view.[/quote]

"sanitized" ya still not seeing a execution of entire families on a large scale in any book for the US revolution can`t say they same for over there.

Now tell me how much beter SA got when Mandela came back to power... Oh no it got much worse I wouldn`t consider that admirable.
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Male 3,909
@McGovern1981 - Just trying to educate you as to what really happened as opposed to the sanitized version you desperately cling to. It was a revolution, revolutions are bloody and many "innocent civilians" shed some of that blood at the hands of angry mobs.

Wake the f*ck up and accept the fact that they were doing the same thing. If the revolution had failed they all would have been sent to prison for life or executed. Remember, it`s the "winners" who write the history books from their point of view.
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Male 14,332
Along with the whole Loyalist vs. any white person regardless of if they supported the apartheid or not technicality.
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Male 14,332
@whodat6484

Funny I see the destruction of officers houses, property, ect and the expelling of loyalists out of the country not the hacking up of entire families with machetes and burning them to death wrapped in tires... but keep telling yourself those are one and the same.

Not really helping this man of peace statement I keeps seeing.
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Male 3,909
"Funny I don`t recall the founding fathers ever encouraging anyone to target civilians not involved in the conflict. Cool story brah!"

Funny, because that`s basically what they did.
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Male 14,332
[quote]perhaps if you hadnt bought that many slaves you wouldn`t have this problem ,) [/quote]

Hmmm interesting I`ll have to check my credit card record don`t recall purchasing any slaves. Tell me how the Dutch East India Company had no hand in that now....

[quote]And no i`m not reffering to your slavery past, or any curretn rascism issue`s i`m reffering to your foreign policy... [/quote]

So you vaguely jumped to entirely different subject cause your points sucked.
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Male 3,909
"Traitors, well, probably."

traitor (noun):
1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust
2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country

Yes, the founding fathers of America were traitors to the British crown.

"Terrorists, no."

terrorism (noun):
1. the use of violence & threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes
2. the state of fear & submission produced by terrorism or terrorization
3. a terroristic method of governing or resisting a government

Like I said, to the British at the time, they were terrorists and traitors who were overthrowing the government to install a new one.
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Male 2,419
I never said anything about racism, i quoted a qoute by Malcom X.

And no i`m not reffering to your slavery past, or any curretn rascism issue`s i`m reffering to your foreign policy...

byt hey comming back to your 5% black comment, perhaps if you hadnt bought that many slaves you wouldn`t have this problem ,)

anyway, i`m out of this thread, my fire proof clothing is in the wash..
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Male 14,332
[quote]really? are you that blind what your country is doing? [/quote]

And what would that be electing a president who`s half black? Who`s being blind now? Easy for a country who`s black population is estimated at 5% to preach about how racist another is huh?
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Male 2,419
@McGovern1981

i`m very aware of what my country history looks like thank you, i also know what it`s up to now and i don`t like it one bit. Unlike certian people.

"For things that never happened in their lifetimes nice logic there!" really? are you that blind what your country is doing?

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Male 14,332
@MrOrange

It`s also funny you say that being Dutch that would mean if an army of the ANC marched up there with machetes to chop your family up with and tires to wrap around you and burn you alive that would be "The chickens coming home to roost." or do you think the Netherlands had nothing to do with South Africa?
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Male 1,397
....wasn`t this guy responsible for blowing up innocents at one time?
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Male 14,332
[quote]which is why America is f**ked, them be lots of chikens with lots of eggs...[/quote]

For things that never happened in their lifetimes nice logic there! Good to see "vegan" support death and destruction....
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Male 2,419
"oh ya it spiraling down the crapper and if you`re white there you can`t walk the street at night how`s that for equality?"

As another black liberationist once said: "It`s the chickens coming home to roost"

which is why America is f**ked, them be lots of chikens with lots of eggs...
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Male 14,332
The apartheid was wrong what the ANC is doing is even worse.
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Male 14,332
[quote]So, Ollie, seeing as the founding fathers were equally as guilty, how about you p*** off back to where your family came from?[/quote]

Funny I don`t recall the founding fathers ever encouraging anyone to target civilians not involved in the conflict. Cool story brah!
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Male 14,332
wouldn`t*


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Male 14,332
[quote">As for Nelson Mandela, since he renounced violence, he`s a good guy, perfect combination between a prophet and a politician. A uniter. However, his ANC is absolutely laying waste to the country as we speak. Kill the boer, kill the farmer.[/quote">

Interesting you say that here he is singing kill the boar. I would consider that a man of peace like the media wants to paint him especially with the action of his party. How`d that murder of tons of white farmers work out for ya BTW South Africa? Oh ya it spiraling down the crapper and if you`re white there you can`t walk the street at night how`s that for equality?
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Male 14,332
Obamas hero......


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Male 96
Freedom Fighter; Statesman; Inspiration; Legend.-And Massmuderer
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Male 1,745
Angilion I`m grateful for my equal citizen status so I don`t have to think about how to attain freedom and not smug enough to criticize those who do. I don`t have the answer though. How to you escape oppression in a puppies and rainbows world? Petition signatures? Facebook likes? Even Gandhi couldn`t completely avoid violence. There`s more than just principles, there are power and wealth involved so d
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Male 7,775
So, Ollie, seeing as the founding fathers were equally as guilty, how about you p*** off back to where your family came from?
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Male 12,365
[quote]Technically, our founding fathers were all terrorists, traitors, smugglers, tax evaders, etc.[/quote]

Smugglers and tax evaders, definitely. Traitors, well, probably. Terrorists, no.
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Male 12,365
[quote]I suspect only those who have equal or even privileged citizen status under the law in their society would think Mandela didn`t do what he had to.[/quote]

Any terrorist would agree with you that they have to put bombs in shopping areas to kill whatever random civilians happened to be in range when it went off. Or torture people in their own community to death in order to ensure nobody speaks out.

Have you murdered people like that, or are you just talk?
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Male 3,909
@Andrew155 - Well, it is the Air Force...

But you can`t deny that, as far as the British were concerned, that`s exactly what they were.
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Male 2,578
That USAF training manual is very poorly written: "Eco-warrior: Environmental activist`s who take"

That whole "everything`s relative" road is a dangerous, but stupid road. Then, Democratic, Republican, and Constitutionalist movements are extreme, as well as Nazis and Communists, so long as they all challenge the status quo, which may or may not itself be "extreme". Hey, everything is relative, man.

But more about how childly written that USAF manual is - they give two examples, with the whole Revolutionary war example not falling under one of the six ideologies they list. Separatism would be closest (but doesn`t what your separating from dictate how extreme it is?). But if you look at their toddler definition of separatism, the Revolutionary war doesn`t fit under it.
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Male 3,909
@OldOllie - Technically, our founding fathers were all terrorists, traitors, smugglers, tax evaders, etc. What do you think about those guys?

Extremist Ideologies
(USAF Training Manual)
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Male 2,578
Ollie is actually correct, Black (Bantu) Africans had not arrived in Africa when the Dutch (and then British) arrived. The people living there are the time were the Koisan (Bushmen). The Bantus basically committed genocide on the Koisan and replaced them as the majority population. It`s really important people know this history because Black Africans are native to South Africa for about as long as Whites are native to North America.

As for Nelson Mandela, since he renounced violence, he`s a good guy, perfect combination between a prophet and a politician. A uniter. However, his ANC is absolutely laying waste to the country as we speak. Kill the boer, kill the farmer.
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Male 1,745
OldOllie so do newcomers to a land naturally deserve servitude and 2nd class citizen status (with the standing offer to return to where they came from) or does it depend on who the hosts, when and where we`re talking about?
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Male 3,445
Why am I not surprised that OldOllie considers apartheid more laziness than exploitative and inhumane?
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Male 15,832
[quote]Apartheid is no fun on the pooty end.[/quote]
In that case, the blacks should have gone back to where they came from.

When the whites settled South Africa, there were no blacks living there. The winters were far too cold for them, and they weren`t civilized enough to build permanent shelters to survive the winter.

The problem was, the whites were too damned lazy to work their own mines and clean their own toilets. They brought in blacks to do that for them and ended up losing their country.
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Male 1,745
I suspect only those who have equal or even privileged citizen status under the law in their society would think Mandela didn`t do what he had to. Apartheid is no fun on the pooty end.
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Male 14,826
@Angilion

+1

If here were muslim, they`d have drone struck his arse.
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Male 15,832
R.I.P. Mandella: Terrorist; Communist; F***tard.

The South African government threw him in prison for a reason.
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Male 12,365
He was the leader of an organisation that ran a terrorism campaign, bombing civilian targets solely to create death and fear. He wasn`t jailed for political reasons - he pled guilty to 156 counts of terrorism. Bombing, torture, etc, etc. He did that and he never even said that he was wrong to have done so.

He wasn`t the saint he was made out to be.
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Male 3,061
I loved him in Shawshank Redemption.
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Male 871
Link: R.I.P. Madiba [Pic+] [Rate Link] - Freedom Fighter; Statesman; Inspiration; Legend.
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