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Date: 11/25/13 08:17 AM

100 Responses to Saving Children From Evangelists

  1. Profile photo of Tupinambis
    Tupinambis Male 18-29
    568 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:18 am
    Link: Saving Children From Evangelists - Worth it. Even at the expense of Christmas presents.
  2. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:28 am
    Except that it is the family that signs their kid up to receive those presents, and the family knows that it is coming through an evangelist organization. Chances are, the families that receive them are already Christian. (Evidenced, in some small part, by their celebration of Christmas.)
  3. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:30 am
    Congrats, Evangelical Atheist (that`s what you are), the kids no longer are getting presents. No effort to replace the generous gift giving with anything, just fun sucking. Really, you`re making the world a better place. I`m sure the kids really care about your overly abstract 1st amendment "struggles".

    I`m not religious, but these Evangelical Atheists are too much. You`re not doing anyone a favor, you`re literally being Grinches.
  4. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:37 am
    Every year I see and hear about toy drives, toy rides, and toy banks gathering thousands of new toys for children in poor families. I hardly think the lack of an aggressive evangelist toy handout is any loss.
    (And if that ignorant, obnoxious bitch on Fox has a stroke for Christmas, I can`t imagine being upset about it.)
  5. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7751 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:42 am
    When is somebody going to grow a pair and put a halt to this PC bs?
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36860 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Saving them from Christianity is a far greater gift than a Barbie or Transformer.
  7. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2252 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:10 am
    notice these pussahs never go after Muslims for their religious holidays/beliefs? Its a CHRISTIAN holiday giving out CHRISTMAS charity to CHRISTIAN children and that`s wrong? seriously???
  8. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:10 am
    Yeah, screw poor kids! They can just eat poop and die, for all this guy cares.

    I wonder if this guy would object to welfare for these poor kids and families because it "comes with strings attached", which is what his primary beef seems to be. Something tells me that no, he doesn`t have a problem with that.
  9. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:14 am
    Agreed. Saving them from liar faith healers is a far wiser choice for these children than gifts with strings attached. Lets see if anyone comes in with gifts for the kids. There is nothing christian in christmas except another series of holidays co-opted by the universal church.
    I always wondered why "Christians" dont celebrate Chanukah or Passover or Yom Kippur: Yeshua celebrated those holidays why dont so called Christian?
  10. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:18 am
    notice these pussahs never go after Muslims for their religious holidays/beliefs?

    They use the excuse it`s cause it`s the most popular religion in western culture. It`s cause they don`t have the balls to be labeled not PC you`ll barely ever see someone call out Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism and ect. It what they can get away with.

    BTW pushing your believe of nothingness after death and no god on kids is as bad as pushing Christianity or whatever onto kids. Let them think and decide for themselves you`ve become as bad as what you spout off against.
  11. Profile photo of pianok
    pianok Male 50-59
    320 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:20 am
    Trying to remove religious belief from the educational system is depriving the educatees of a large block of knowledge. Kids see all sorts of christmas advertising approximately three months of the year every year. To extricate all that input in the name of constitutionality, is a travesty at best. Children are forced into political correctness and nobody complains. Let them be coerced by a religious entity and the legalists go ballistic. Hell, when I was a kid I would have signed a pact with a coven of witches to get a toy any time of the year let alone christmas.JMIO
  12. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:21 am
    @carmium
    Wow, wishing a stroke on an editorialist (not a news broadcaster, same type of job as Jon Stewart)...

    Furthermore, most of those toy drives are done through Christian organizations.

    Now, I was wrong - Operation Christmas Child sends the gifts to other countries where missionaries are at work. The parents don`t sign their kids up for it, rather the gifts are handed out by the missionaries who are already there. Stopping the gifts does not stop the missionaries.

    The students did not put the tracts in place. The students did not have to go through any religious indoctrination. Only the kids who receive the gifts speak with the missionaries, and they do not live within the United States of America... so how are their Constitutional Rights offended?
  13. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:26 am
    @llaa
    We do celebrate Passover... it is one of our major holidays. There are several demonimations which also observe the day of atonement, we though recognize that our sins are forgiven by God because of Christ`s death on the cross.
  14. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3288 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:29 am
    @llaa, because Yeshua(I`m assuming you mean Jesus) was of the Jewish faith.
    Jesus followed the Torah, or as Christians call it, the Old Testament.
    The idea of Christianity is that the Old Testament is no longer followed as Jesus made a new pact with God, aka the New Testament.

    Hanukkah isn`t even the Jew`s biggest holiday, and Passover is still observed by Christians, albeit in their own way.

    Please note that I am fully against organized religion.
  15. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3291 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:31 am
    She`s right in asking him "what is your group doing?" No reason his group couldn`t pick up the slack and get the toys to the kids. Sure, stop the kids from being forced to sign a thing saying they`ll be Christians. But then work with the schools to get the kids the toys WITHOUT the strings attached.
  16. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:31 am
    I get their point, but it`s still kind of a douche move.
  17. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:32 am
    I dont remember Christ saying any of those things about how he was the new covenant. I do know the following:

    "Following in the Pauline tradition, in the 5th century Augustine of Hippo viewed Christ as the mediator of the New Covenant between God and man and as the conqueror over sin. He viewed Christ as the cause and reason for the reconciliation of man with God after the fall of Adam, and he saw in Christ the path to Christian salvation"
  18. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:40 am
    @llaa
    Isaiah 42:6 "I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keeph you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles"

    That is part of an old testament prophesy about the coming Messiah. Then, we have Luke 22:20 "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."
  19. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:42 am
    @Rick S
    His group doesn`t have the infrastructure to do so. Remember, Samaritan`s Purse has been doing this for many years, and has the system in place. For his group to pick up the slack, they`d have to create a whole new system - including dissemination of the gifts.
  20. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:44 am
    "notice these pussahs never go after Muslims for their religious holidays/beliefs? Its a CHRISTIAN holiday giving out CHRISTMAS charity to CHRISTIAN children and that`s wrong? seriously???"

    Funny, I`ve never had to avoid answering the door because a group of muslims was trying to talk to me about Allah…
    If Christianity is so great, why do they have to recruit people with bribes? Not a great club if you have to beg people to join.
  21. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:45 am
    "Let them think and decide for themselves"

    mmm, think that`s the whole point of what they are doing here
  22. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:48 am
    I`m with the litigants. The churches can have the toy drive without the need for the schools to get involved. Constitutionally, they can`t if it promotes any religion whatsoever. If the schools want to have a toy drive, nothing is preventing them from doing so. They would probably get just as many without invoking a religion.
  23. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:48 am
    @lauriloo
    Coming from the midwest, that`s not too terribly surprising. Granted, I have more Christian evangelists come to my door than Muslims, but I do get a few a year. Though, if I am home, I open my doors and welcome them in. Its hard work being an evangelist, and I love learning about religion so I`m always looking forward to the conversations.
  24. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2252 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:52 am
    McGovern I highly resent the `strings` some church groups (those, i refuse to call "christians") put on their "free" toys/gifts etc. Yes, Christians are supposed to spread the good word etc, but that`s coercive and EXTREMELY wrong biblically to put a "you`re saved" stamp on a 8 year old who wrote their name on a piece of paper with the church`s address on it because that is NOT what a true Christian believes "saves" you. My stomach churns when these idiots come out of their holes and give the people who are trying to be real Christians a bad name... its so bad we can`t even have our own holiday anymore.
  25. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1062 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:52 am
    llaa,

    I believe the scripture was, I come not to do away with the covenant but to fullfill it. So my understanding is jesus was very pro-covenant.
  26. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:53 am
    @mesovortex
    "Constitutionally, they can`t if it promotes any religion whatsoever."

    This is patently untrue. A school district is not Congress.

    But, dancing along the rabbit trail here
    *The school did not add the religious tracts
    *The school was going to function as a collection point, and Samaritan`s Purse was going to pick up the boxes
    *The students were never exposed to the Christian Faith beyond "We`re working with Franklin Graham`s Samaritan`s Purse organization for this to bring Christmas gifts to needy children in other countries."

    If it were Muslims, Taoists, or Wiccans who were doing the charity, I would be saying the same thing. A school district is not Congress, and they can partner with any organization that they wish for charities.
  27. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:54 am
    Now read the gospel of John, Matthew, or Mark and you`ll see no mention of that speech other than in Luke. Luke was supposedly transcribed by Luke, Paul`s physician and neither he nor Paul were at the last supper.

    On Isiah, Im still waiting for an oasis to grow in the deserts and mountains threshed into hills by god`s hand. Besides, Isiah was saying nice things to bolster jews against Assyrian conquerors... poo though, it only took World War 1 to wipe out the Assyrian empire, about 2700 year later. pooty prediction imho.
  28. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:56 am
    mmm, think that`s the whole point of what they are doing here

    Not really they`re just pushing Atheism with this. Keep both your bitchy asses out most people don`t want to listen to either of you.
  29. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:57 am
    @lauriloo
    "How hard is it to take the toys to Toys for Tots? They don`t need any help and the poor kids parents can do another program."

    Its not (kind of), though the target audience is different. Toys for Tots brings gifts to kids in the United States, while Samaritan`s Purse donates outside of the country.

    Now, I say kind of, because Toys for Tots is ran by the Marine Corps, and sometimes there isn`t a local project.

    But, how long before people complain about the jingoism promoted by having the schools work with the Military?
  30. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 9:57 am
    Also, Islam loves Isaiah as well. Just like universal Christians, Islam fits their re-purposing of the Jewish faith based on that scripture.
  31. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:02 am
    "But then work with the schools to get the kids the toys WITHOUT the strings attached."

    How hard is it to take the toys to Toys for Tots? They don`t need any help and the poor kids parents can do another program.

    This bogus Fox News "War on Christmas" thing has become as expected as watching Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer on tv. More red meat for their over 60 white audience.
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:05 am
    But, how long before people complain about the jingoism promoted by having the schools work with the Military?

    Don`t give them any ideas!! They look for anything to bitch about!
  33. Profile photo of Tupinambis
    Tupinambis Male 18-29
    568 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:06 am
    It is true that they should have picked up the slack and sent a positive message in that way. But hey, if you they had done that then you wouldn`t have heard about the story.
    Moral of the story: Better no presents than an Evangelist`s c.ock down your throat.
  34. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:07 am
    Yah, that word fulfill. Its a bad translation to prove a point in English. The Greek word, pronounced play-ro`-o could mean:

    to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc..

    Not fulfill.

  35. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:09 am
    "A school district is not Congress, and they can partner with any organization that they wish for charities."

    But public schools are funded with public money, not just Christian money. If one of the groups who doesn`t appreciate their tax money being used to promote another group`s religion, they have a right to protest it. That`s what this is. It`s not the gov telling the school they can`t do something. It`s a group of people objecting to how their tax dollars are being used. Send your kids to a private Christian school if you want to promote Christian values.

    Frankly, I`m willing to bet some school administrator blindly chose this charity or the charity contacted the school to participate and no one checked to see what it was about. People are lazy that way.
  36. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:09 am
    @llaa
    Mark 14:23 "`This is my blood of thec covenant, which is poured out for many,` he said to them."

    Matthew 26:28 "`This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

    John makes no reference to the breaking of bread, except for the betrayal of Judas.

    I get it, llaa, you dislike Christianity, but you asked why I believe something, and I`ve given you the scriptural context behind the belief in question. Just because you have doubts, it does not invalidate anything that I have said.
  37. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:14 am
    I dislike old books modified over a thousand years to fit a purpose of the times for a group that rapes both the minds and bodies of children. Nothing against Christ, just religion.

    Seriously though, why dont Christians celebrate Jewish holidays. Christ never said anything about Jewish traditions and holidays being stupid. Maybe he updated the blood atonement a bit but surely civilizations and society made those changes first.
  38. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:14 am
    Religious people giving presents and charity does not equal "religious indoctrination". If it does, can somebody give me actual proof? I mean real proof, not some overly-intellectualize conjecture that wouldn`t apply to a 5 year old who just wants presents.

    lauriloo, it`s not bogus, and you are proof. Take the Fox news derangement somewhere else, Fox news is not the story here.

    We really have a lot of grinches here.
  39. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:16 am
    @lauriloo
    "But public schools are funded with public money, not just Christian money. If one of the groups who doesn`t appreciate their tax money being used to promote another group`s religion, they have a right to protest it. That`s what this is. It`s not the gov telling the school they can`t do something. It`s a group of people objecting to how their tax dollars are being used. Send your kids to a private Christian school if you want to promote Christian values. "

    You`re right, they are funded with tax money - by people who live within the school district. People who can attend meetings with the school district and have this discussion.

    Nobody was forcing the kids to participate, nobody was forcing the kids to learn about Christ, nobody was forcing the kids to do anything.
  40. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:16 am
    I think this is really awful. And I`m an atheist. I understand his point but maybe this humanist group (note that they`re not called "humanitarian"!) could have 1)requested an end to the insert (which, as noted by JadesDitoyr, is likely going to Christians, anyway) and 2) threatened a suit if the objectionable activity continued next year.

    @carmium,
    I agree: lack of the handout is no loss to lose sleep over. But, on the other hand, the presence of it is not something for which I can advocate stopping needy kids from getting some holiday joy.
  41. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:17 am
    "Religious people giving presents and charity does not equal "religious indoctrination"."

    Go to the Samaritans Purse website and read about it:

    Pray, then you get a box
  42. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:23 am
    @llaa
    "Seriously though, why dont Christians celebrate Jewish holidays. Christ never said anything about Jewish traditions and holidays being stupid. Maybe he updated the blood atonement a bit but surely civilizations and society made those changes first."

    We do. Passover was the celebration that the Disciples gathered at and was the time and place of the Last Supper.

    Shavuot was the Hebrew celebration that we refer to as Pentecost now.

    Shabbat, the Sabbath, we celebrate each Saturday/Sunday.

    The Fast of the Firstborn is celebrated among many denominations - though they do not refer to it as such.

    No, we do not say "We`re celebrating Jewish holidays!" because they are not just Jewish holidays - they`re Gentile Christian Holidays as well.
  43. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:24 am
    "lauriloo, it`s not bogus, and you are proof."

    Really? Not bogus? Isn`t 3 months of Christmas enough? Are people forgetting about Christmas because of all the attempts to stop it? Seriously.
  44. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:27 am
    @lauriloo
    My church participates in this program. We`re actually one of the main collection centers for it. Your link title misrepresents the situation.

    "Even before you have thought about your shoe box, we and our volunteer teams are busy preparing to receive your box through:

    Prayer
    Promotion in sending countries
    Training in receiving countries"

    This is what the volunteers are doing, not those who will receive the box.

    continued
  45. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:27 am
    @McGovern1981,
    "Not really they`re just pushing Atheism with this."
    I have to agree with you there. Atheists pushing atheism on everyone is no better than Theists pushing their god on everyone.
  46. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:27 am
    (continued)

    You seem to have missed

    "DISTRIBUTING SHOE BOXES

    Finally, your shoe box gets into the hands of a child!

    Lively, fun event for children
    Creative Gospel presentation by local churches and ministry partners, where appropriate
    Shoe boxes are given to children unconditionally
    Wherever appropriate, children are offered a copy of The Greatest Gift of All booklet in their own language by local churches and ministry partners.
    Soon after an OCC distribution event, the local churches and ministry partners may offer The Greatest Journey (TGJ) to the children participating in OCC in many of their communities. You can read more about this program here on our web site."
  47. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:42 am
    Ignorant, child-hating fools. You`re misarable, so you need to make all others as miserable. It`s toys for kids, lighten up. Merry Christmas!
  48. Profile photo of llaa
    llaa Male 30-39
    1664 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:52 am
    @JadesDitoyr

    I`m just saying all those things you attribute to jewish holidays are not Jewish in practice nor anywhere close to Jewish customs. Its a stretch to say they are observed, unless you want to add Pauline\Catholic ideology but not Christ to the mix.
  49. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:56 am
    It "includes a place for kids to sign off saying that they`ve converted to this particular brand of Christianity."

    Ahh, see that? There`s the problem.

    But still, none of you loving Christians seemed to mind when a soup kitchen in SC turned away volunteers from a local atheist group.
  50. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:59 am
    The line in the sand is clear, don`t push religion onto children, bring them up with decent common sense morals and then let them decide. Problem is although most atheists bring children up with an open mind the same cannot be said for a lot of religious folks. They can`t deal with the fear.
  51. Profile photo of robthelurker
    robthelurker Male 18-29
    2873 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:00 am
    all this man is doing is taking away a small amount of happiness from children who have nothing. end of story. christianity, atheism, there is no difference to me. regardless of this toy drive, children will grow up believing in what ever they choose. there will always be influences in their life that will help them choose what to believe in, and that is something that shouldnt be changed. why not let these kids get the toys and have the choice to become christian? its not like theyve taken away the option to be believe in something else. you dont have to be christian to celebrate christmas.
  52. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:04 am
    @llaa

    I am a Christian Gentile, not a Jewish Christian, there is a difference in culture. Definitely.

    But when I attend services for Passover, we discuss the whole of the celebration. The way that the Lamb`s Blood signified the houses of the Faithful so the Angel of Death would pass over them, and how the Blood of Christ protects us from death.

    We discuss how the Torah was given to the Faithful on the day of Shavuot and how it connects to the day the Holy Spirit poured amongst the Faithful, bringing forth the Gifts of the Spirit.

    Yes, we do not celebrate Passover and Shavuot the same way as the non-Christian Jews, but we attribute even greater significance to those days. I am not saying that those days are less important to them, rather that they have greater significance to those who hold Christ as the Messiah because they are links that bind the two covenants, the two testaments together.
  53. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:15 am
    @whodat

    It was idiotic of the soup kitchen to turn down the help, and the opportunity to bring the message to the Atheists. I actually do mind that, but thanks for saying I didn`t.

    The religious tract mentioned was offered, but not forced upon the kids. The place to make the pledge, that particular tract that he shows... I have never seen it. Like I said, my church does a lot with this organization.

    @spanerbulb
    The kids who are receiving these gifts are already hearing the message of God. Depriving them of gifts does not stop that. All this does is deprive them of gifts.
  54. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:24 am
    Problem is although most atheists bring children up with an open mind the same cannot be said for a lot of religious folks

    ROFL ya an open mind to atheism. Do you see the smugness from many here and believe they wouldn`t preach to believe in nothingness just like them? Different believes same old s hit.
  55. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:27 am

  56. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:30 am
    More atheists trying to ruin Christmas. It`s despicable that they are now aiming their bullsh|t at kids.
  57. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:30 am
    "You seem to have missed"

    No, that passage you quoted here was the part I was referring to when I said they had to pray before getting a box. They have to attend a prayer meeting first and then they get asked to take more training. Because they are poor and there`s probably food and nice things at the training, their parents have them go because it`s better than nothing. It`s easy to get poor people to do things you want them to do because they are desperate.

    Why can`t religious groups just do good things without pushing an agenda? That`s why I can`t stand it. They have the kids sign these pledges so they can make a tally and tell their donors "we recruited X number of children for Jesus. That`s why you should give us more money so we can recruit some more" . blech
  58. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:33 am
    @JadesDitoyr Are you one of those Jews for Jesus people who are trying to convert all Jews to Christianity to bring on Armageddon?
  59. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:50 am
    "The religious tract mentioned was offered, but not forced upon the kids. The place to make the pledge, that particular tract that he shows... I have never seen it. Like I said, my church does a lot with this organization."

    Doesn`t matter, the fact that it was offered is the problem. They`re bribing kids with toys to get what they want, the next generation of brainwashed Christians.

  60. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7614 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:51 am
    I don`t tell my children to believe in nothing. I don`t tell them what to believe -full stop. You are all free to believe what you wish- but I have stopped my child going to a so called `youth group` when I found out they were teaching them pretty hard core stuff. Sorry- but telling 7 year olds that Harry Potter is evil, and god made the world in seven days is not on- not in my book. No matter how much fun she had, that fun wasdesigned to indoctrinate her - out of my earshot as parents were not encouraged- I wonder why LOL!!
  61. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:52 am
    @lauriloo
    You did simply misunderstand the website, and that`s fine. It is easy enough to do. The volunteers pray, the volunteers train. The recipients, largely, are already in communication with the missionaries over there.

    But all the kids in the villages are given gifts, not just the ones who attend the services.

    Like I said, it is easy to misread the section.

    And no, I am not a Messianic Jew, I am a Gentile Jew. But, I do believe in evangelism, because I do believe that Christ is the only way to have eternal life. I share my faith because I care about everyone else. None will come to the Father, except through Christ, but I am called to cast out the net.

    Yes, I look forward to the day when Christ returns. But I weep for those who have not heard the message, and pray that it gets to them before The End.
  62. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    if it was so important to the evangelists to give pressies to the kids surely they could have done it without any religious connotations, seems it was more important to them that they preached to children than give them gifts.
  63. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:13 pm
    @McDuff
    The school wanted to get the gifts to the kids, and working with Samaritan`s Purse was the most efficient way to do it.

    Samaritan`s Purse is an evangelical organization with missionaries in place in these countries already. This is what makes it efficient for them as a delivery system.
  64. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:18 pm
    whilst that`s lovely JadesDitoyr it doesn`t change the fact that if they wanted to they could have just left out the proselytising but they didn`t because they are more concerned, it would appear, with indoctrinating children into their make believe.
  65. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7614 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    If evangelising matter- and I accept that it does, then it should be kept to adults. An adult can decide for itself if it find the argument compelling. Evangelising to children is wrong, it is not in any way acceptable to brain wash children like this no matter how well intentioned.
  66. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    @McDuff
    No matter whom the school paired with for this project, they would be tied to something "unsavory" to somebody. Especially if they want to send them oversea.

    @Madduck
    You as a parent made a decision about your kid and her involvement in a youth group. While I disagree with the decision, I respect your right to make that decision.

    The parents of these kids are making that same decision. They are choosing to expose their kids to Christ.

    Once again, they are already being exposed to the message - the Missionaries are already there. The Missionaries are already teaching.

    All THIS did was lessen the number of toys that the kids would get.
  67. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    A "Gentile Jew"? Interesting.... Is that like a Hindu Muslim? Or more like a Southern Baptist Sikh? Inquiring minds wanna know...
  68. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    "No matter whom the school paired with for this project, they would be tied to something "unsavory" to somebody. Especially if they want to send them oversea"

    Nah sorry that sounds like an attempt to justify what happened, just send the presents without tying it to religion that`s not hard, surely the good deed is reward enough, not trying to convert a load of children to your fairy tale.
  69. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4348 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:09 pm
    no way should that be happening. If you want to give stuff to the poor, just do it. No religious involvement needed. Surely `christain` behavior is based on giving and helping without the need to convert etc. Is all american news this religious, bias and stupid?
  70. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2252 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    If Christianity is so great, why do they have to recruit people with bribes? Not a great club if you have to beg people to join.

    Lariloo... its what I just got done saying... they`re not real christians if they`re doing that. Do you just pick and choose what YOU want to discuss rather than bother to read what was written? :B
  71. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33134 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:19 pm
    So Atheists really ARE trying to destroy Christmas! Just like we`re been saying ALL ALONG.

    True: this group shouldn`t be adding things that are excessively religious. BUT suing the school over it? That`s SO VERY LIBERAL!!!

    So to "save the children" they`re willing to punish the needy!!

    I LOVE how the Hostess drills him over what HIS group is doing, and he has NO REPLY! He`s a hate-filled arse-hole. Period!
  72. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:26 pm
    oh dear thats just pityful 5cats where does he say he wants to destroy christmas?
    he doesnt he just doesnt want children being forced to listen to christians bang on about their religion, and since when are `Liberals` not allowed to protect their rights by suing others?

    The only people punishing the needy in this story are the religious groups who wanted to force their religion onto poor children by bribery and coersion if they had really wanted to help they wouldnt have tied giving gifts into their religion.
  73. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    @QueenZira
    If I said Gentile Jew, I misspoke, Gentile Christian is what I meant. Though technically Christianity is a subsect of Judaism, so it isn`t all that inaccurate.

    @lauriloo
    Neither of those have any impact on what AHA was saying, as it turns out. And, gasp! A Christian Organization has Christian viewpoints...

    @McDuff
    Um... how many needy children do you know in Haiti to send stuff to? How expensive would it be for you to send them stuff?

    @emmityville
    She is not a news broadcaster, she does editorials - opinion pieces.
  74. Profile photo of StickmanJ
    StickmanJ Male 40-49
    18 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:31 pm
    For everyone who`s scared that religions are trying to brainwash your children... make sure to tell them they get gifts from Santa whether they are good or bad this year. As long as you not brainwashing them.
  75. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33134 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    @carmium: Wishing someone to have a stroke just because you don`t like their POLITICS? That`s hardly Canadian of you...

    ...though most atheists bring children up with an open mind...
    @spannerbulb: You joking bro? Atheists are just the same as everyone else: I seriously DOUBT that they raise their kids any differently.

    @emmettyville: The school WAS helping needy children without religion being involved! The religion was added later but the group.

    @MelCervini: All religions promote and recruit: it`s not new. The Bible instructs Christians to `spread the Word` (capital W!) by faith and deeds.

    @McDuff73: It`s part of a pattern. If you weren`t blinded by your own hate? You might see what`s right in front of your eyes. A little FYI for you...
  76. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 1:49 pm
    @5Cats
    Lets be fair, she didn`t wish any harm to come to her. Just a statement of apathy should harm come to her. Not very nice, but it is not the same thing.
  77. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 2:02 pm
    Speaking of Haiti, I remember after the devastating earthquake not too long ago Xian groups were doling out food and medical care and some of them would withhold both until the victims converted. Disgusting! Putting your denominational numbers game above the needs of suffering people! Paging Hell, new candidates on line 1.

    And not all religions proselytize, for example no Wiccan is ever going to disturb your early morning peace by asking if you`ve got Goddess yet. We don`t come looking for you, You come looking for us. And really that`s the way it should be, there is nothing more metaphysically arrogant than telling someone their way is inferior to yours.
  78. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    @QueenZira
    That is abhorrent that a group would do that.

    But, I have had a share of Wiccan evangelists. Not to my door, mind you, and it is probably because I`m always willing to have those discussions. Still, I have had it happen.

    I must contend, however, that by nature of belief, I have to see other faiths as inferior to my own - otherwise I would not hold my own. I am no Theosophist, after all (though I do play them as characters in LARPs). In my faith, Christ is the way the truth and the light, and therefor the only path to life eternal.

    This means that your path must be inferior to mine. But, it does not mean that you are inferior to me for walking that path. That, I think, is the important part. No matter what you believe, you deserve respect and equal treatment.

    But, if I do not believe my faith is superior to yours, I would not follow my faith. Just as if you did not feel your faith to be superior to mine, you would not follow you
  79. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 2:42 pm
    If the schools had been partnering with an Islamic group handing out toys with copies of the Koran then Fox news would be up in arms. But, because it is Christian group... that is okay.
  80. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 2:45 pm
    I`ve met my fair share of Pagan bullies don`t get me wrong, but by and large even the hint of such a thing makes us cringe.

    I think my way is the best way, for me. It may not be the best way for you. Having only "One True Way" sounds like mistaking the map for the Territory to me. Ultimately, we all come from Source and we shall all surely return to it in the end.

    The large organized faiths will have to decide for themselves how to deal with this challenge going forward, let`s hope they find a way to do so compassionately and peacefully.
  81. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 3:01 pm
    @Wundt
    That is a large assumption to make. AND presumes a falsehood about what was going on. The school was not inserting the tracts, nor doing anything with the religious aspect of the charity.

    @QueenZira
    And while I respect you, and the faith you have in your religion; I must believe that it is wrong. If I didn`t, I`d be Wiccan. Just as if you thought Christ was the Son of God, you would be a Christian.

    But I will not tolerate anyone trying to pull the Conversion by the Sword tactic, because that is not the way of Christianity.
  82. Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 3:50 pm
    Man, that woman interviewing him was a real c*nt.
  83. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 3:51 pm
    "Do you just pick and choose what YOU want to discuss rather than bother to read what was written?"

    Sweetie- guess you haven`t noticed these posts are in the order they were submitted and the comment you dislike was posted before yours. If anything, you repeated me. sheesh.
  84. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 3:58 pm
    "The school was not inserting the tracts, nor doing anything with the religious aspect of the charity. "

    So you agree with my assumption that the school blindly chose this particular charity without knowing their agenda? Otherwise, the school was complicit with the goals of the organization and was therefor equally involved in proselytizing. Or, maybe the school knew it but didn`t tell the kids that but if so, how did the humanist group find out about it unless a parent complained?
  85. Profile photo of fancythat
    fancythat Male 30-39
    1950 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 4:13 pm
    Damn straight. Support the Marines.
  86. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm
    shame,
  87. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 5:56 pm
    @lauriloo
    The school knew what Samaritan`s Purse does, obviously they did, but the students were not involved in the evangelism.

    If the students were not encouraged to participate in the actual evangelism part, and they were not evangelized to, then their rights were not infringed.

    The recipients of the gifts are *already* being evangelized to. The presence of a present is not the tipping point for those families. It is not the "gateway drug" to the "opiate of the masses".

    Here, were the schools complacent in the Boy Scouts of America segregating boys from girls because they let the cub scouts meet in the schools?

    The local schools here in Texas rent out their cafeteria to organizations all the time, by doing so is the school complacent in those organization`s actions?

    I get it, you don`t like Christianity, or religion as a whole.

    But stopping these presents doesn`t stop the spread of Christianity. It stop
  88. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 7:43 pm
    "But stopping these presents doesn`t stop the spread of Christianity"

    If thats the case why are christians getting so pissy?
  89. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 10:50 pm
    @McDuff

    Because it is a mean spirited thing to do - stopping the children from getting presents! It is ridiculous that the American Humanist Association is going to these lengths for something so petty.
  90. Profile photo of mrhellhawk
    mrhellhawk Male 18-29
    25 posts
    November 25, 2013 at 11:17 pm
    This reporter might not be a bad person, but just an idiot who do not understand the tremendous value of intellectual freedom. where i came from, children taught to believe in Allah and not allowed to question the faith subject. Some like myself, were afraid from the punishment in case we questioned it. This grateful shallow minded reporter make me feel angry for her ignorance of the value of freedom.
  91. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 12:20 am
    Check the blond. She doesn`t get it at all.

    If I was a school principle and I solicited donations from my kids, but sent them to an organisation that demanded kids fill out a reply slip with their name and a declaration that there was no god and that they would continue to deny his/her/its existence evermore, christians and muslims would be up in arms.
  92. Profile photo of Tupinambis
    Tupinambis Male 18-29
    568 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 2:32 am
    @Draculya
    Someone should do that. I don`t see why they`d encounter any resistance.
  93. Profile photo of Mevsthevoice
    Mevsthevoice Male 18-29
    24 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 3:52 am
    Please god stop with all the major news network poo, this poor guy has a fantastic point admitted to even by the culprit, and Fox is trying to twist the message against secularists.
  94. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 5:19 am
    @Draculya
    "If I was a school principle and I solicited donations from my kids, but sent them to an organisation that demanded kids fill out a reply slip with their name and a declaration that there was no god and that they would continue to deny his/her/its existence evermore, christians and muslims would be up in arms."

    That is in no way a fair comparison. Children are given the gifts regardless as to if they follow the Christian Faith. Operation Christmas Child requires no such declarations of belief.
  95. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 10:07 am
    If Christmas was nothing but another ordinary day, as atheists claim it is, they wouldn`t be persecuting Christians over it.

    I`ve yet to see an atheist get upset over Chinese New Year, Beltane or Diwali, all of which are major religious holidays for different people.

    Again, it makes no sense to persecute people over "nothing", normal people would just ignore it. But these assh*les hate God so much that they make monkeys of themselves and confirm their simian mentality by flinging sh|t at everything they hate.
  96. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    579 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 10:52 am
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Where in there does it say a school can`t distribute toys through an agreement with a religious organization?

    That said, I don`t agree with this type of proselytizing. I just don`t think it sends the right message.

    I don`t think this agreement should be stopped but if the Atheists want to do something else then I`d have to say that`s ok as well, even if I may not agree with that message.
  97. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 12:30 pm
    I think the argument is that a PUBLIC school is a government entity funded by tax dollars and by affiliating with an organization involved with establishing religion in another country they are violating the 1st amendment that government can`t be involved with establishing a religion, especially choosing one particular religion over all others.
  98. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    November 26, 2013 at 1:23 pm
    @lauriloo
    But the School isn`t Congress, they are not working to establish Christianity as a State Religion in other countries, and the First Amendment has no holding in other nations.

    There is clearly no violation of the 1st Amendment here, but somehow the the American Humanist Association decided to fabricate the situation.
  99. Profile photo of Viking864
    Viking864 Male 40-49
    1444 posts
    November 30, 2013 at 7:39 am
    As an atheist, this story was pretty embarrassing to me. The Constitution states Congress shall not establish a Religion (as Jades just stated), but nowhere does it state that government cannot work with religious organizations or cannot have any interactions with them. There is nothing wrong with OCC as I`m pretty sure the kids receiving Christmas Gifts are already Christians. Early in US History a lot of government meetings occurred in churches. Schools are not government property but community and just like the roads, any community organization should be allowed to use it as long as they follow the rules applied to everybody.

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