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Category: Misc
Date: 10/17/13 06:14 PM

47 Responses to To The Point [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 6:16 pm
    Link: To The Point - No mincing of words. Concise.
  2. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:07 pm
    I totally agree.

    I would also agree that nothing inside is worth killing for, but that`s just me.
  3. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:24 pm
    I would also agree that nothing inside is worth killing for, but that`s just me.

    Your wife and kids?
  4. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:34 pm
    MrPeabody

    "Your wife and kids?"

    Fair enough I suppose, although that would "nobody" not "nothing".

    I would kill someone if they tried to hurt me, my girlfriend, or my kids. It is why I have a gun. It is why I routinely practice with it. However I would not kill someone over a TV or a playstation.

    Obviously this sign is talking about prospective thieves not people coming in on a random murder spree.
  5. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:35 pm
    @HG

    Might I remind you of this
  6. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:37 pm
    @HG the man in the video was intending to rob the home, not murder anyone, but that was the result.
  7. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:46 pm
    MrPeabody

    "HG the man in the video was intending to rob the home, not murder anyone, but that was the result."

    Absolutely. I wish she would have had a gun and killed him.

    You know my point though. Most home invasions do not include physical attacks. Most thieves would run.

    If someone broke into my house at night I would get my gun and then I would get my children and girlfriend into a locked room with me while I called the police.

    Some people would relish the chance to go shoot someone who broke into their house. I`m not one of them. That is all I meant.
  8. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    "My neighbor, on the other hand, is a big supporter of gun control and is completely unarmed."
  9. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 9:14 pm
    HG - don`t live in a fantasy world. We all know that simple possessions in the house aren`t worth a life. It isn`t about the possessions...It`s about you and your family`s security. Every robber, no matter what the age, knows that they put their life on the line when breaking into a home. If you shoot, you have no responsibility to feel bad. You probably will, but regardless, you are an idiot if you let someone break in and do nothing. As a matter of fact, I submit that you have done the community a disservice. If you don`t shoot, you are putting other innocent people at risk of being robbed and murdered.

    The real truth is that things happen so fast you don`t have the luxury of watching to see if he just leaves. In reality you shoot or 1/4 of a second you or your child is dead. Don`t gamble with your family`s life. If you do, you deserve what happens. Don`t think we live in a society where others are like you. They will kill you with no remorse.

  10. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    If someone broke into my house at night I would get my gun and then I would get my children and girlfriend into a locked room with me while I called the police.

    You live in a fantasy world. Either the robber would leave, or murder your entire family. There is no time to gather the family into a locked room and watch what happens. The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely) either way there is no waiting to see what happens.

    You owe it to your family to be a man. Do not gamble their lives. The intruder doesn`t deserve the odds you provide.


  11. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm
    turdburglar

    "We all know that simple possessions in the house aren`t worth a life."

    Bulls.hit. Some people DO NOT believe that. Some people will shoot a guy in the back on his way out the door with a tv.

    "you are an idiot if you let someone break in and do nothing"

    If I can safely get my family into a locked room upstairs and sit in front of the door with my gun aimed, that is what I would do. Insurance will take care of anything else.

    Some people would sneak downstairs and try to shoot the robber. Morally I could never take a life unless it was a direct threat to me or someone else. A robber downstairs trying to be quiet doesn`t qualify.

    The moment they open the door upstairs they are dead.

    "In reality you shoot or 1/4 of a second you or your child is dead. "

    You really think most robbers are even armed? Let alone ready to kill a child?
  12. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    Turdburglar

    "There is no time to gather the family into a locked room and watch what happens. The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely) either way there is no waiting to see what happens."

    I live in a 4,000 sq foot house. All the bedrooms are upstairs right next to each other. If someone broke in and woke me up I would easily be able to get the kids into another room without the robber seeing me.

    I guess I just imagine it is at night, if it is during the day than obviously that isn`t the case.

    You really think a robber is more likely to murder an entire family than run? I have to believe it is OVERWHELMINGLY in the other direction. I doubt most robbers are even armed.
  13. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 9:38 pm
    turdburglar

    "The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely)"

    Here are some facts to destroy that statement:

    U.S. Department of Justice

    An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred each year from 2003 through 2007

    In about 28% of these burglaries, a household member was present during the burglary.

    Seven percent (266,560) involved some form of violent victimization

    In 12 percent of violent household burglaries offender possessed a firearm.

    About 23 percent of these firearm-related burglaries were committed by a stranger.

    So out of 3.7 MILLION burglaries less than 7,500 were strangers with guns where any sort of violence occurred.

    .19%

    I`m not killing someone for a .19% chance.
  14. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 17, 2013 at 10:49 pm
    Some people would relish the chance to go shoot someone who broke into their house. I`m not one of them. That is all I meant.

    @HolyGod: The VAST majority of US gun owners agree with you! The vast majority of "gun defences" don`t even have a shot fired!

    The NRA completely agrees: don`t fire unless you absolutely have to!

    I`d agree too, but we Canadians aren`t allowed to defend ourselves...
  15. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:22 am
    @HolyGod I agree that firearms possession for home-defence is a fantasy. My brother owns a huge assortment of firearms which he justifies as being for the zombie apocalypse. In truth there is about as much chance of his being burgled by a gunman in his neighbourhood as a home invasion by a hoard of brain hungry undead. I see it like the people who prepare a carry-on bug out bag in case their Airbus goes down in the wilderness.
  16. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:44 am
    Nothing inside is worth killing for.
  17. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:48 am
    ITT: Turdburglar aka The Batman
  18. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 3:39 am
    How many of you have actually had someone break into your home when you yourself were home?

    How big of a threat is it, really? Common? Uncommon?
  19. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 3:42 am
    I mean, people discuss it like it`s a distinct looming threat that`s likely to happen.

    I can understand making precautions against threats. That`s sensible. But...isn`t it wise to be appropriate with your level of precaution, based on the likelihood of the event?

    I could dig a moat around my house and fill it with petrol and set it alight. That`d protect me against home invaders alright. But I suspect most people would suggest I`m overreacting.

    Scale that back a bit, and you might understand why many people consider bringing a gun into a home (especially one with children) might be a dangerous overreaction to a potentially very unlikely threat (home invasion).
  20. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 3:46 am
    *ponders*

    Should I armour-plate my roof? You know, in case a meteorite hits my house and crushes me to death in my sleep?

    I know the armour-plate would be heavy and may collapse the roof and crush me to death anyway. But it`s worth the risk to defend against meteorites.

    After all, it`s worth the risk having a gun in the house that might get picked up and used against a loved one in the heat of an argument, or picked up and used against myself in the depths of a depressed mood that otherwise might only have resulted in listening to some Tool and moping...

    ...because what if some crazed lunatic breaks in to kill me? It`s never happened to me before, nor to any of my friends, family, colleagues, acquaintances...

    ...but, you know, it MIGHT happen!
  21. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 4:13 am
    @HolyGod

    Google searching tells me that in 2005 there were 108,800,000 households in the US.

    With than 7,500 burglaries with strangers with guns where any sort of violence occurred.

    That`s a 0.0068% chance per year of it happening per household.

    The number of gun-related suicides in the USA for the same year was (according to my Googling) 16,869.

    That`s a 0.016% chance of someone killing themselves in your home with a gun. And that`s not even factoring in the skew towards it happening in households with guns.

    The odds of someone killing themselves intentionally with a gun in your home are 2.35 times higher than the odds of a stranger breaking into the home and hurting someone with a gun.

    And I haven`t even touched accidental shootings, etc.

    People are subjecting themselves to something with GREATER risk to defend themselves against something with LESSER risk. This is madness.
  22. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 4:16 am
    I`m setting my stopwatch to see how long it takes for someone to call me a liberal and say I`m deaf to facts.

    Despite all this (admittedly back of the envelope) working out below.
    VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
  23. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 4:26 am
    May be nothing worth dying for inside; hash-crop available outside.

  24. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 5:20 am
    People are subjecting themselves to something with GREATER risk to defend themselves against something with LESSER risk. This is madness.

    Doesn`t justify the madness of gun control.
  25. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 5:53 am
    @Cajun247

    "Doesn`t justify the madness of gun control."

    I didn`t say it did.
  26. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3900 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 8:06 am
    Careful now guys, those facts can`t be taken seriously over my gut feeling on the issue!
  27. Profile photo of Stormith
    Stormith Female 18-29
    543 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 10:03 am
    I mean, my feelings change depending on whether or not that`s an actual target with bullet holes in it or if it`s just a printed image of it
  28. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 10:11 am
    @normalfreak2

    "Careful now guys, those facts can`t be taken seriously over my gut feeling on the issue!"

    *chuckles* Yeah, I think that`s a big part of the problem. Plus, nobody is able to pose and quote in front of a mirror and fantasise about being a badass hero when they`re armed with locks, alarms, and well-run local law enforcement, rather than a big masculine gun.

    People like to fantasise...and then they go and use those fantasies to bring something into their homes that, according to the numbers below, makes them and their families less safe, rather than more safe. That`s the scary part.
  29. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 10:47 am
    Musuko

    "People like to fantasise..."

    For sure. People don`t own AR15s because it is the best way to defend yourself from home invasion. The best way to defend yourself from home invasion is a shotgun.

    They own an AR15 in case of revolution against the government, or invading forces, or zombie Apocalypse.

    I have had people on this site tell me that they need military style weapons in case they ever have to fight the military. Now THAT is some fantasy.
  30. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 11:07 am
    @HolyGod

    "I have had people on this site tell me that they need military style weapons in case they ever have to fight the military. Now THAT is some fantasy."

    *chuckles* Yeah, and an even more unrealistic one.

    Unless Joe Average has a few tanks and fighter jets in their back garden, they`re not going to accomplish diddly squat in a revolution attempt against the US military.
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm
    @Musuko42: My home was broken into & things stolen.

    Years ago? my girlfriend`s house was "home invaded" by 4 armed "youths" who were looking for a teen who`d been renting a room there a few months before. (drug debt, last know address)

    Would a gun have made here safer? Would a gun have protected my house while I was at work? Yes and no.

    It DOES HAPPEN. Just like having a FIRE EXTINGUISHER handy is a good idea, eh? Home, car, garage, workplace...

    FYI: "accidental shootings" are a TINY number in the USA...

    I think @Musuko42 watched "Taxi Driver" and thought it was a documentary... :-P
  32. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm
    @HolyGod: Why do people by expensive cars? Just a bare-bones "Yugo" is all they NEED!

    But they spend $200K on an Italian job? Why?

    BECAUSE IT`S A FREE COUNTRY! That`s why!

    And they buy a "cool looking gun" because:
    #1 It`s their choice!
    #2 It`s VERY effective at scaring criminals away!

    That`s the reason to own a gun: to SCARE CROOKS AWAY! Not to shoot them. Just like the alarm on my house or car cannot PREVENT crime, but offers a warning or when it occurs...

    Also? Few people actually OWN an AR-15... fyi! There`s a "liberal fantasy" for you!



    Or Joe Biden will tell you what kind of gun you`re "allowed to own" eh?

  33. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    5Cats

    "Would a gun have made here safer?..yes"

    You really think she would have been better off getting into a shootout with 4 armed people?
  34. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:27 pm
    5Cats

    "Why do people by expensive cars? Just a bare-bones "Yugo" is all they NEED!"

    I`m not saying a shotgun is just bare-bones sufficient. I`m saying it is better than a rifle for home defense.

    "Also? Few people actually OWN an AR-15... fyi! There`s a "liberal fantasy" for you! "

    ?

    There have been 2 million manufactured in the past decade.

    There is an estimated 5 million owned.

    It is the best selling rifle in america by far.
  35. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm
    @HolyGod: Sorry, this is Canada: 2 of them had knives.

    If she had "presented" a gun? Perhaps they would have fled, that`s the point.

    In the end they broke a few things and, once they figured out their `target` didn`t live there anymore, left.

    Sorry I wasn`t specific. They were "under 18" because the gangs use "youths" 17 & under for their major crimes on purpose: the Law will go VERY easy on them! Assuming they get caught, which is highly UN-likely.

    Once they turn 18? They get a different set of "jobs"...
  36. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm
    [quote">It is the best selling rifle in america by far.[/quote">

    True: it`s very popular! And best selling BRAND of rifle, but it`s still a minority of all rifles owned OR sold, correct?

    Gun Numbers: USA

    WOW! That`s a fantastic site! Bookmarking and suggesting it...

    86 Million Shotguns owned in the USA vs 5 Million Ar-15. Just clicky-clicky!

    I rest my case. :-)
  37. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:44 pm
    @5Cats

    Sorry to hear that your girlfriend went through that. If I might say, however; did she emerge from the incident unhurt?

    I know it`s impossible to predict if she would have been hurt or not in foresight, but in hindsight, if she wasn`t hurt, it`s hard to see how the situation could have been improved in any way. It couldn`t have turned out better: she emerged unhurt. She couldn`t be made more unhurt, after all.

    Were you living with her at the time? You confess to having mental issues, depression, etc. Did you have those issues at the time?

    Would you have trusted yourself with access to a tool that would allow you to cause quick and easy injury or death to yourself or to your girlfriend whilst you were suffering from mental issues?
  38. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    @5Cats

    Also, if your society was set up to make it easy for your girlfriend to get a gun, then it might also be as easy for those four home invaders to get guns too, either through legal methods (every criminal is a law-abiding citizen when it comes to obtaining guns if they haven`t been caught yet), or other means (stealing them from law-abiding citizens).

    Your girlfriend would gain no power advantage, as both sides have increased their strength equally. But the capacity for injury or death has increased.

    We`re only talking about one specific example here, and I`m well aware that there are plenty of scenarios where guns are a benefit to homeowners. But what I`m trying to point out is that it isn`t always a simple equation of homeowner + gun = safer homeowner.
  39. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 1:43 pm
    @Musuko42:
    - I`ve had depression since I was a child.
    - Never lived with her, she had her 2 teenage sons at home.
    - The punks were under 18 and couldn`t LEGALLY own a gun, eh?
    - She wished they could find that guy, he was a jerk who cost her a lot of money in the end!
    - She was unharmed & the damage was minor, but still? Why take that chance? Why "roll the dice" if it could be prevented?
    - Tool of destruction? Car, knife, matches, rope, tall buildings... guns are just quicker and more "guaranteed" than other methods.

    - The gangs HAVE lots of guns! But they don`t send the `youths` out with them because that will get them "bumped up" to adult court. They know `The Law` inside and out: and ALL the loopholes.
    Also: they just wanted to find the guy, not murder him. Sending idiot teenagers out with guns wouldn`t get their money back if he was dead...
  40. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 3:11 pm
    @5Cats

    - Then I imagine you know the dangers involved with depression better than I do.
    - Duly noted
    - It is easier to illegally obtain something if it is legal and available around you to find and steal.
    - Amen to that.
    - Remember my moat of petrol? You might defend against a small risk with a method that ends up exposing you to a greater risk. That`s not smart.
    - Exactly: guns are a quicker, more effective weapon. That`s why they`re more dangerous than other less-effective weapons. That`s why serious thought should be given towards the sense of having it in the home. See above: potentially protecting against one small threat by exposing yourself to a larger threat.

    Swallowing a spider to catch a fly...

    - I have a question: how did the intruders get into the home?
  41. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 4:53 pm
    I always wherever I live put a sign up on the door
    `beware of the snakes`

    never owned one but by god
    no one crosses - gasman, electric guy,
    even when I had a fire in my back garage the firemen would not break down my door
    due to Health n safety reasons
    because of my snake notice
  42. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 11:06 pm
    I have had people on this site tell me that they need military style weapons in case they ever have to fight the military. Now THAT is some fantasy.
    Right, because that`s NEVER happened before in history. Oh, wait, what...it has? Well, it`s never happened in THIS country. Oh, it did? The hell you say! Well, in that case...never mind.

    Actually, though, when the $#!+ hits the fan, the military is going to be on OUR side. (Obama`s going to be REALLY surprised and disappointed when he finds that out.)
  43. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6765 posts
    October 18, 2013 at 11:13 pm
    OldOllie

    "Well, it`s never happened in THIS country. Oh, it did? The hell you say! Well, in that case...never mind."

    Yes at a time when the peak of weaponry was a musket and a cannon. There is a BIT of a discrepancy now between military arms and civilian arms.

    "Actually, though, when the $#!+ hits the fan"

    What $#!+? Revolution?

    "Obama`s going to be REALLY surprised and disappointed when he finds that out"

    There`s going to be an armed revolution against Obama? OK your crazy delusional old f.uck. I`ll wait for the revolution.
  44. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    October 19, 2013 at 11:07 am
    @Mesuko42: One came to the back door and knocked, asking for the `target` by name. She opened the door to talk to him, and all 4 rushed in.

    Criminals have been stealing and gathering guns in Canada for 50+ years, it`s "just another black-market item" they deal in. Laws have only made business more lucrative for them!

    That`s what happened in England after the "Handgun Ban" started: criminals started smuggling and selling illegal guns. Big profit for them!!

    @HolyGod: Open your eyes and look at all the armed revolutions of the past 20 years: It`s never "expected" is it? Just... POW! Civil war! Uprisings!! Arabic Summer!!!

    If 10 years ago you said "3 Arabic nations will overthrow their governments, 5 will `put down` revolutions with bloody violence, and one will have a civil war costing 100,000+ lives - all at the same time"
    ???
    You`d be laughed out of town!
  45. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 19, 2013 at 11:41 pm
    There is a BIT of a discrepancy now between military arms and civilian arms.
    Right. Back then civilian arms were BETTER than military arms. The standard issue weapon for the military was a musket, while the typical citizen-farmer owned a long rifle which had better than twice the range, twice the accuracy, twice the knock-down power, and twice the rate of fire as a musket. In an open field a group of farmers with rifles could easily take out 4 times their number of soldiers without taking a single casualty.
  46. Profile photo of Mad_Gremlyn
    Mad_Gremlyn Male 30-39
    512 posts
    October 20, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    LOL! Absolutely brilliant! I`m ordering a dozen. Need some Xmas gifts.
  47. Profile photo of liabach
    liabach Male 40-49
    3242 posts
    October 20, 2013 at 3:10 pm
    So we can steal guns there, sweet.

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