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Date: 10/14/13 09:56 AM

54 Responses to The Reason We Can`t End The Shutdown

  1. Profile photo of techgeek07
    techgeek07 Male 30-39
    2594 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 9:57 am
    Link: The Reason We Can`t End The Shutdown - The house has some explaining to do.
  2. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:17 am
    Well, all the IAB Liberal Brigade members who`ve been CROWING about "obey the law!" in regards to ObamaCare should be in FULL SUPPORT of the Republicans on this one, correct? :-)

    After all, at least 6 Dems also voted for it, making it as bi-partisan as things get these days, yes?

    Waiting for the `usual suspects` to castigate this Democrat crybaby...
  3. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:26 am
    I`m no expert.. but that seems a bit weird..
  4. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:40 am
    As much as I think this was a sketchy move by the GOP, @5Cats has a point.

    If you found yourself in the "Obamacare is the law!" camp, then you should also support this maneuver as it was lawful. You can`t pick and choose when "it`s the law" is a principled argument.

    Oh, and the sequester is the law too.
  5. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:43 am
    one word: greed
  6. Profile photo of turbotong
    turbotong Male 18-29
    600 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:43 am
    Does someone have a tl;dr version?
  7. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:45 am
    @5cats..

    dude.. i think you missed the point. this isn`t about policital aliance anymore. this is about politicians hijaccking a country just to make their point.

    and in case you didn`t see through this, if i was a democrate i would have voted for this too. why? because the opposition is going to look pretty damn bad right now. draging the american economy down the drain just to prevent some folk from getting healthcare (call it what you want, this is how the world sees it) a lot of countries have a simular system going on, is it perfect? nope did we suck it up and deal with it? yeap. time to grow the F*ck up and start acting like adults and do what`s in the nations best intrest. and right now that`s making sure the economie doesn`t go belly up.
  8. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 12:47 pm
    The ACA is the law. Agreed. And this maneuver was within the rules. Agreed. Of course, all *sorts* of things are legal and within the rules. Not all laws and/or rules are created equal.

    For example, even though abortion is entirely lawful, one just about can`t receive one in Kansas (and several other states) because states have made laws and rules all but eliminating them. Laws that allow for discrimination (e.g. prevention of marriage equality) are "the law", but that doesn`t make them morally right.

    But, whatever. We`ve seen the polls. Please, please, please keep doing bullpoo like this. Please keep shutting down the government, preventing voting, preventing marriage equality, etc., based on a tiny minority of voters. Please do! :-)
  9. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 12:50 pm
    @turbotong: here`s the tl;dr version:

    Republicans in the House Rules Committee passed a rule that made it impossible for anyone but the majority leader in the House to put up a bill for vote. It used to be that any member of the majority party could, but, since Republicans leaders saw that there were enough Republicans willing to vote to keep the government open, they changed the rule. So, bottom line, the government didn`t need to shut down. There were enough votes to prevent it. But a tiny minority of poo bag Republicans did an end around and drated the country.
  10. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2314 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    Hemming, hawing, doublespeak and flat out refusing to answer.
    Drag each and every one of them to the steps of the Lincoln memorial and hang them as traitors. Then their aids, interns and lobbyists.
    Then the bankers.
    Then the wall street thieves.
    Doin rhat ain`t got no end.
  11. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 12:54 pm
    Harry Reid did the same thing in the Senate over 3 years ago, and he`s been playing other parliamentary tricks in the Senate since then.

    There are over 13 House submitted budgets sitting on the table in the Senate RIGHT NOW and Reid could end this by letting any one of them be voted on and even if they didn`t pass, they could be sent on to the joint committee for negotiation.
  12. Profile photo of Smoothjc1
    Smoothjc1 Male 50-59
    260 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    This is why we need to do away with the TWO party system.
  13. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    I also agree with 5Cats that this was done by the books.

    But I also agree that this makes the Republicans look really bad. You compare the Democrat`s law - Let`s force everyone to chip in to pay for healthcare - against the Republican`s law - Let`s put the power of 435 elected representatives into one person`s hands. As corrupt as the Democrats are, the Republicans make `em look like friggin` saints.
  14. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    "So, bottom line, the government didn`t need to shut down."

    True, Harry Reid could`ve averted it many months ago. But he`s been acting as Obama`s veto power, in the Senate, for over 3 years.

    "Hemming, hawing, doublespeak and flat out refusing to answer."

    The chair answered his question fully, without giving it any personal opinion. There was no refusal to answer or doublespeak on the part of the chair.

    You haven`t participated much in student government or parliamentary procedure have you?

    Read Robert`s Rules of Order and then come back when your a little more educated on them.
  15. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1038 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:14 pm
    Should have voted for Vermin Supreme. I want a pony.
  16. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:34 pm
    "True, Harry Reid could`ve averted it many months ago. But he`s been acting as Obama`s veto power, in the Senate, for over 3 years."

    Umm, Harry Reid DID try to avert it many months ago with his secret meetings with John Boehner. They reached a deal, Harry Reid compromised by cutting spending on many programs that the Dems thought would help America. John Boehner compromised by agreeing not to shut down the government. Then John Boehner went back on his word. =/
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:41 pm
    Oh, and the sequester is the law too.

    @HumanAction is correct! I just learned that the "debt ceiling" was made in 1939! C`mon liberals! That`s 60+ years of precedent! ;-)

    this is about politicians hijaccking a country just to make their point.

    @Mr.Orange I absolutely agree! Obama and Reid HAVE hijacked the lawful political system and are holding the USA hostage!

    By-the-by? I think it`s a TERRIBLE new rule! >-( I hope they (Congress) get rid of it ASAP!

    The Senate too, if that`s the "new rule" too, there as @CrakrJak says.
  18. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:45 pm
    @bliznik: IF I remember correctly (and I may have a different "deal" in mind) the agreement was to negotiate on the ACA funding BEFORE the debt ceiling was raised. OBAMA said "No Way Jose" to that!

    The "right wingers" were not happy 3 months ago, because we said Boehner had put the cart before the horse... but it ended up like this (shutdown) anyhow...
  19. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:47 pm
    "Well, all the IAB Liberal Brigade members who`ve been CROWING about "obey the law!" in regards to ObamaCare should be in FULL SUPPORT of the Republicans on this one, correct?`

    This isn`t about obeying the law, be it the ACA or this little "rule change" of theirs. It`s about the timing of said rule change, which clearly proves that they were planning on shutting the gov`t down no matter what. Yet, even though they set it up so the shutdown was inevitable, they still point the finger at the Democrats & Obama. All that talk about how the Dems won`t negotiate so it`s their fault was just for the cameras in an attempt to mislead people to believe that the GOP did not want the gov`t to shutdown.
  20. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:01 pm
    @whodat

    It`s about the timing of said rule change, which clearly proves that they were planning on shutting the gov`t down no matter what.
    Not quite; it does not "prove" (Meaning: with absolute certainty) that they were going to go forward with the shutdown. It actually only proves that they were prepared to.

    I know this sounds nuanced, but there is a large gap between "proves" and "suggests." Put differently, proof and evidence are different things.
  21. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Fox News tonight will tell you how Obomba is keeping the guv`ment shut down. Same dance, different tune.
  22. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:41 pm
    They can`t end the shutdown because it`s a vacation so they`ll wait till the last ass minute and come to a "resolution" at like midnight right before the sky falls. Then pat themselves on the back and say what a great job they did and take another vacation this time officially.
  23. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:42 pm
    "Umm, Harry Reid DID try to avert it many months ago..."

    Does anyone around here not remember the whole point of Cruz`s filibuster? He was arguing that Reid would sneak in Obamacare right after the senate passed a budget; and he did exactly that.

    Reid could have prevented this shut-down by not trying to sneak in Obamacare - hands down.
  24. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:43 pm
    This whole shut down is about Obama wanting to leave a legacy.

  25. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    "This whole shut down is about Obama wanting to leave a legacy"

    i`m sorry, but.. that is just clutching at straws. the guy is the first black president. pretty sure that *is* his legacy

    i don`t f**king know what happend during the reagan years do know he was the the first acting retard elected as POTUS
  26. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 3:05 pm
    "Reid could have prevented this shut-down by not trying to sneak in Obamacare - hands down."

    Sneak in? You mean the vote on December 24, 2009 where 99 out of 100 senators voted? That`s not sneaking in anything, that`s having a vote in front of almost all the Senate.

    It seems like you`re actually saying, "Harry Reid could have prevented this from happening by not passing a law that Republicans disagree with." So you`re basically arguing that anytime anything happens that one political party disagrees with, everyone should know that the political party will stop working until they get what they want.
  27. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    @bliznik

    Sneak in? You mean the vote on December 24, 2009 where 99 out of 100 senators voted?
    The common understanding is that the Democrats rushed the bill through as they were afraid that they would lose the House in the 2010 elections (they did).

    Considering the size and the magnitude of the bill, a six-month timeframe from "introduction" to presidential signing is rather rushed.

    I`ve quoted the word "introduction" because the initial bill passed by the House on September 17th, 2009 had no mention of Obamacare. Sometime between then and the Senate passing the bill on December 24th, 2009 was the actual introduction. Considering it was then signed by Obama on March 23rd, 2010, I would have to agree that it was rushed through.

    During that entire timeframe, not a single Republican voted for the bill.
  28. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:12 pm
    Ironically the shutdown has actually helped the Democrats. It`s taken media focus away from the problems all of the exchanges are having.

    The polls seem to be showing the American public is blaming the republicans even more for this shutdown than they did back in `96. Given the recent hints at a deal coming soon, I suspect there is a group of moderate republicans who are not willing to keep this shutdown going any longer. I wonder what Boehner will do if he has to choose between the moderates in his party, or the extremists? He`s sided with the Tea Party so far, but who knows if he`ll support a Senate compromise or not?

    I think we are about to find out.
  29. Profile photo of flying_ltj
    flying_ltj Male 18-29
    340 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    To me this falls under less of politics "ne side" vs "the other" and falls more under the theater of "we`ll pretend they snuck this under the table so they look like the bad guys."

    Im sure all parties involved knew damn well what was being passed.

    Political theater is theatrical.
  30. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    @_@

    *facepalm*

    Nope.

    How do you forget how Reid added f`n Obamacare to the CR:

    READ MORONS:

    enate Restores Funding for ObamaCare

    Senate passes stopgap spending bill; restores Obamacare funding


    Cruz had a damn point to his filibuster.
  31. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:21 pm
    Let me fix this: "Ironically the shutdown has actually helped the Democrats. The media focus has been placed on blaming republicans for all the problems the exchanges are having with Obama refusing to negotiate and throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old child."

    There... much better.
  32. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm
    @elkingo, The difference between what I said and what you just said is the same difference between stating a fact and stating an opinion.

    If you are using Liberal or Conservative media as your excuse for why things are not going your way, chances are your political beliefs fall well outside the "sweet-spot" on the bell curve.

    That`s just my opinion however. I`m sure you will feel differently.
  33. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    @pazerlenis - "difference between stating a fact and stating an opinion"

    That`s your opinion.

    "If you are using Liberal or Conservative media..."

    Let me stop you right there. I do not watch CBS, FOX, or CNN, MSNBC, or any of the other bullsh|t news stations on the television. They are all full of sh|t.

    I gather my data from the internet. I use snopes.com quite a bit, and I google actual things passed by senate and house. I also follow politicians voting habits.

    I am not a blind follower.
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:39 pm
    All that talk about how the Dems won`t negotiate...

    @WhoDat: So the Republicans FORCED OBAMA to not negotiate? :-)
    Or OBAMA LIED every time he said he refused to negotiate? :-) :-)

    Hobson`s Choice! Take your pick, bro!

    It actually only proves that they were prepared to.

    Correct as usual @HumanAction! THAT is how one negotiates! You say "I`ll do XYZ" and by golly, that`s what you do! Or else what`s the point?

    Like Obama`s "Red Line" which Syria simply stepped across and said "I did it! What YOU gonna do Obama?" and Obama did... NOTHING! Nobel Prize Winning Negotiator!!!

    @elkingo: True that! Reid changed "the deal" and it`s the GOP`s fault? So says the MSM of course...

    @bliznik: Nooo, "sneak it in" to the CURRENT BUDGE BILL which is exactly what the SENATE DID...
    Do try to "keep up" eh? HOW do you think ObamaCare funding G
  35. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 4:42 pm
    (904)
    GOT IN THERE in the first place? You think the House put it in?
    Nope!
    Reid attached it, as he`s allowed to do, but that makes the House have to re-pass it, which they justifiably refused to do!

    THAT is how the USA got where they are:

    Dems and Repubs negotiate a funding deal.
    Reid (Dem) breaks the deal and blames the Repubs.

    Obama refuses to even TALK about it!

    Simple.
  36. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 5:08 pm
    @HumanAction, I see. So by "sneaking it in" you mean the vote was rushed. I don`t know about rushed, but I do think that it would have been better if the ACA was about 200K pages shorter than it is now.

    @5Cats, @elkingo, I think I`m missing something here. According to the articles provided by elkingo, the House passed a bill to fund everything EXCEPT for the ACA, the Senate amended that bill to eliminate the "EXCEPT for the ACA" part so that it funds everything, and then the House refused to pass the amended bill. How is the amendment sneaky?
  37. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 5:12 pm
    @bliznik

    So by "sneaking it in" you mean the vote was rushed.
    I didn`t say "sneaking it in" and I don`t feel that it was. However, I think it was rushed to avoid the potential of losing the House in the 2010 elections.

    I was just commenting that it hasn`t really been a nice clean fight on either side of the aisle. Both sides have made questionable, potentially unethical decisions along the way.
  38. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 5:15 pm
    @bliznik

    and then the House refused to pass the amended bill. How is the amendment sneaky?
    When the Senate returned the modified "Clean" CR, it contained spending limits that were above the sequester limits. Since the sequester is a law that the GOP likes, they feel that the Dems should make some Obamacare concessions if they want the GOP to concede on the sequester.
  39. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm
    "I was just commenting that it hasn`t really been a nice clean fight on either side of the aisle. Both sides have made questionable, potentially unethical decisions along the way."

    OK, that I can definitely agree with. I wish they`d friggin` work together on substantive things instead of pandering to their base and special interest groups.
  40. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 5:42 pm
    "How is the amendment sneaky?"

    He didn`t allow the senate to discuss it for one.

    Secondly, he added the amendment 5 min after the vote to pass the CR without the amendment.

    Thirdly, he acts as if it is the house`s responsibility to pass something the senate voted on (see above).

  41. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 6:07 pm
    @elkingo, "That`s your opinion."

    Umm, no. Nice try tho. I merely said the current course of events have been beneficial to the democrats more than republicans. If I had stated that was good or bad, then I`d be stating an opinion. You on the other hand are using phrases like, "Obama...throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old child."

    THAT is what an opinion looks like. There is always the possibility that it is also true, but it most certainly isn`t a factual statement the way you have said it.

    "I do not watch CBS, FOX, or CNN, MSNBC, or any of the other bullsh|t news..." I noticed you didn`t include FOX news in that list. That`s an interesting commission given the fact that you are trying to convince me you research your facts thoroughly.

    "I am not a blind follower."
    Who are you trying to convince with this comment? Me or you?
  42. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 7:20 pm
    ""I do not watch CBS, FOX, or CNN, MSNBC, or any of the other bullsh|t news..." I noticed you didn`t include FOX news in that list. That`s an interesting commission given the fact that you are trying to convince me you research your facts thoroughly."

    Lul.

    Why don`t you re-read my list. You even quoted it.
  43. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 7:23 pm
    "Ironically the shutdown has actually helped the Democrats. It`s taken media focus away from the problems all of the exchanges are having."

    These are NOT facts. They are opinions.

    Polls do not make them facts. Research that is unbiased helps provide evidence, but polls do not make facts.

    "The difference between what I said and what you just said is the same difference between stating a fact and stating an opinion."

    This is still your opinion. You cannot provide research that is both unbiased, evidenced based, and peer reviewed that proves any of these so-called "truths".

    It is your OPINION.


  44. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 8:06 pm
    5cats, i have to make a small point, you stated that obama switches, stating the syrian thing as an example. i asume you mean the chemical attack killing either around 300 or 1700 people, it seems hard to get good figures. Not blaming or playing anyone about this, the place is a mess, so lets assume it is the larger number.
    And wether i think this political farce in the us is his or isnt his fault has nothng to do with it but here comes my point(s?)
    First off, it is still not proven that assad`s forces used chemical weapons, it is only proven that someone did, unfortunatly, it may as wel have been the, oh, lets call em rebels.

    but far more worrying and upsetting is this. how come these 1700 deaths suddenly are a reason to enter into the conflicht but the 130000 before them, killed in less chemical ways, were not?
    so yeah, if you want to attack him over his choice, that should be the angle i guess, it is my beef with the syrian debacle for sure
  45. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 9:45 pm
    Yup, you democracy was easily broken.
  46. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 10:00 pm
    "Why don`t you re-read my list. You even quoted it."

    LOL I did! I wonder what it says about my brain when it refuses to even see the word Fox anymore. :)
  47. Profile photo of Tupinambis
    Tupinambis Male 18-29
    568 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:08 pm
    Future generations will LOL heartily at the concept of "government shutdowns", fu.cking idiotic politicians and fu.cking idiotic 200+ year old system of government.
  48. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 11:10 pm
    What a whiney little bitch. Has he forgotten how Harry Reid totally sodomized the rules of the Senate in order to shove Obamacare up our asses?
  49. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 15, 2013 at 1:00 am
    Hear hear Old Ollie!
  50. Profile photo of kangoala
    kangoala Male 18-29
    702 posts
    October 15, 2013 at 1:08 am
    Colbert`s gonna have fun with this one.
  51. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    October 15, 2013 at 1:53 am
    Republicans have crossed a line. They are actively committing acts of treason.

    They need to be arrested and hanged as the traitors they are.
  52. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 15, 2013 at 3:07 am
    Hey considering that polls show 75% of Americans hate the GOP, and that many say we are likely to see a humiliating capitulation and/or a Democratic-dominated congress before long I suppose that means the Democrats will have a blank cheque to do whatever they have on their agenda. I`m talking about the entire democratic bucket list; fantasy items that they can`t normally get away with. It`ll be fun to see what they do now that the GOP has handed them a free hand.
  53. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31789 posts
    October 15, 2013 at 9:51 am
    @Modwain: Yes, exactly! (On the whole Syria thing)

    Obama Logic:
    Libya: The Verbal Threat of mass-killing = invasion!
    Syria: 100,000+ dead = nothing!

    There were NO actual mass killings in Libya, but there`s been many, by BOTH SIDES in Syria. yet Obama does... nothing!

    So he "blustered". He TALKED THE TALK and drew a red line, and the MSM licked his balls with praises! Hooray!
    Then the line was crossed and... nothing.

    Just like ALL of Obama`s promises? They were EMPTY of content or action.

    THIS IS WHY I don`t like Obama: he`s done nothing BUT lie! And the MSM still kisses his arse...

    And when Repubs HONESTLY OPPOSE something? They are called traitors by IDIOTS...

    @SleepyHallow: Hang them? Really? No need for a trial either, eh? I thought you libtards opposed the death penalty, eh? EH?
  54. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 16, 2013 at 12:29 am
    Hey considering that polls show 75% of Americans hate the GOP...
    ...it makes it rather difficult to explain why they elected a majority of them to the House of Reresentatives, now, doesn`t it?

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