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Date: 10/10/13 05:15 PM

93 Responses to Swiss Ffair Ppay [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:16 pm
    Link: Swiss Ffair Ppay - The Swiss limiting highest wages.
  2. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    The world may revolve around the U.S. but it is a world wide problem- not only the stupid states!!
  3. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    On the other hand, limit their pay and all the talented people will leave for countries where they can earn more.
  4. Profile photo of cluffy
    cluffy Male 40-49
    63 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    Does no one remember the message in Rush`s song `Trees`??
  5. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:49 pm
    Fact: If you limit how much a person or corp. can make they will pack up and leave to a place that doesn`t.
  6. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm
    Actually, it stated that executives should not be payed more than 12 times the amount of their lowest payed employee.
  7. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:51 pm
    Legit problem, wrong solution.

    A start would be looking at ridiculous govt regulations like:
    -Building permits
    -Occupational licensing
    -Business subsidies

    Maybe then they wouldn`t get away with this crap.
  8. Profile photo of 8jdb28jdb2
    8jdb28jdb2 Male 30-39
    83 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    Usually I don`t write in to specifically comment on another commentator, but Cajun247 are you not all there? your comment is so off the mark that I have to wonder. If you are, cool, I hope that you can receive the support you need to live a full life.

    This idea is by the Swiss is great. Capitalism is build in stealing a bit of the value added of labour, to steal it all is wrong and self-defeating. this law should be in all countries
  9. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm
    The answer is brainwashing.
  10. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 7:09 pm
    Gerry and mcgovern, this has been said so many many times it is no longer funny that peeps still think that. This is true for people comming from eastern european countries to better paying countries, and it is true for thirld world countries in the same way, but to often it has been shown to not really be true within the western world itself. There is more to gratification out of a job then mere money.
  11. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5606 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 7:10 pm
    The people who composed and those who are applauding this don`t truly understand capitalism.
    -They`ve created an incentive to hire fewer people.
    -They`ve created an incentive for celebrity executives to move out of the country (companies actually need those guys to draw investors.)
    -They`ve implied there is a directly related proportion of the value in to .

    Fail to properly load a disc duplicator and few grand is spent fixing a drive.
    Authorize the development and distribution of a touch screen OS for PC`s while touch screens cost too much to catch on and lose hundreds of millions while trying to recover.
  12. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 7:59 pm
    I think the people attempting to implement this understand capitalism perfectly well, that its inherantly selfish and greedy.
    I dont see how limiting executive pay means a company will hire fewer people, in fact if anything it will have more money to hire more people on a lower wage.
    Who cares about `celebrity executives` maybe companies will get better quality real executives instead of wasting money on `celebrity` and I think investment comes from profitability.
    And there is equal worth in all aspects of a company without the workforce a company is an empty shell with executives twiddling their thumbs round the board room.
  13. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2314 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:03 pm
    Because people are too scared to quit. Companies that earn that level of inequity are unable to survive a mass exodus.
  14. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm
    All the best CEOs will just move out of the country. That will bring the average wage down.

    It`s not about fairness; it`s about punishment.
  15. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm
    The world may revolve around the U.S. but it is a world wide problem- not only the stupid states!!
    You`re right soundman. Other countries have their share of left-wing $#!+-for-brains socialist f**tards, too.
  16. Profile photo of redofluke1
    redofluke1 Male 18-29
    26 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:50 pm
    Maybe they will have intelligent honest people in control of there business`s. who`s to say what will happen. If it doesn`t work whats the worst thing that could happen they repeal the law?
  17. Profile photo of Liquidglass
    Liquidglass Male 18-29
    1111 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    correct me if I`m wrong but they also don`t have people mooching off the system and doing half-ass work.

    Lets kick everyone out that doesn`t have a job and is able to get one! Go Switzerland!
  18. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5606 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:19 pm
    "...its inherantly selfish and greedy..."
    That`s correct. That`s why it works. It operates WITH the nature of humans.
    But, life isn`t a cartoon. There is a limit.

    "I dont see how limiting executive pay means a company will hire fewer people"
    In order to have the exec direct compensation ceiling raise, the lowest paid must also have a raise. In order to keep the margin near the same balance, the incentive is to keep fewer lower paid operators while trying to have the remaining operators produce more to make up for the lost operators.

    "...I think investment comes from profitability..."
    Investment comes from confidence. Continued investment comes from profitability.
  19. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm
    This is madness. It`s an arbitrary and irrelevant observation that does not reflect reality. Furthermore, it caps performance of the best and brightest in proportion to the worst and dullest.
  20. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3149 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm
    @McDuff73 "I don`t see how limiting executive pay will hire fewer people, ..."

    Hypothetically, you are an executive and want to earn as much money as possible (as most do; it`s ingrained in our nature to succeed).

    Do, A) hire 100 people at 30,000 a year, or B) hire 50 people at 60,000 a year, and make them do the same amount of work as 100?

    The answer is B) as you, personally will make more money.


    Now, an entirely DIFFERENT question is, which is better for a nations economy?

    More people spending money, or fewer people spending more money?
  21. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:36 pm
    i am so amazed by people defending the exesses of capitalism and attack any suggestion to lower its impact as left wing.
    I cant think of anything as threathening to a society as an increasing gap between the most wealthy and the most poor. and yet, those on the lower brackets, leaning towards the poor are defending the most wealthy it seems. As soon as steps are percieved to close teh gap, it is being belittled as left wing, socialism or dangerous.
    But seriously, where do you think those "disgruntled" ceo`s will move to? From swiss to.. i dunno, the usa? where there is a big problem too? Again, it has been proven a few times in the past, salery isnt the only thing that makes -people want to go to work, lowering it within reason will not make top ceo`s leave compenies, let alone countries.
    just one of the many
  22. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 9:39 pm
    so, yeah, if it may work in Europe, why do you fear that it will not work state side? I guess i know though, i mean, the politics in the usa is divided, and not between democrat and republican but between haves and havenots. and the haves have somehow conviced some of the havenots that it is in their best intrest to protect the haves and what ever the haves deem important. And when the haves drat up and lose it all, it is often still blamed on the havenots.

    So yeah, worry about ceo`s leaving a country because limits are set on their earnings. They will be mighty happy that you do.

    But, when you find that you are more or less unable to get simple things cause you dont make the money for it, see how many of the haves are willing to go on teh baricades for you
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 10:26 pm
    So the owner of a company, the person that risked his capital, isn`t entitled to the profits?

    This is pure socialist bullsh|t.
  24. Profile photo of minigeko
    minigeko Male 18-29
    149 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 11:29 pm
    People are paid based on how valuable they are to a company. A single cashier at Wal-Mart isn`t that valuable. The store manager is far more valuable and that doesn`t even leave the store. The executives that make all the important decisions or the people that make the great value brand products are both far more valuable than some old woman that`s been a cashier for 10 years
  25. Profile photo of AmishHacker
    AmishHacker Male 30-39
    73 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:17 am
    Does anyone here own a business? Has anyone here taken the risks? Has anyone here made negative take home money for the month after working 80+ hours a week. Has anyone here felt the rewards of it paying off... even for just a moment and having the government tax your more because of it. I have. The day the government tells me how much I can profit from my life`s work is a dark day indeed.
  26. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:48 am
    @McGovern1981

    "Fact: If you limit how much a person or corp. can make they will pack up and leave to a place that doesn`t."

    Money isn`t always the deciding factor when it comes to where you want to live.
  27. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:54 am
    Also, did you not stop to consider that perhaps as a people they have elected leaders who will create laws like this because they would rather have business leaders who work for reasons that aren`t solely personal financial gain?

    They`ll lose the business leaders who are in it for the money, sure. That doesn`t mean that the people they get instead are inherently worse, for their own definition of what they want, if that`s what they`re wanting.

    Many of you here seem to be under the illusion that the Swiss haven`t thought about the potential consequences. I`m sure they are smart enough to have done so and chosen to do this anyway. If so, then their conclusions on the likelihood of that outcome, and the degree of unwelcomeness of it, may very well be extremely different to your own conclusion.

    TL:DR, just because you think losing the money-seeking CEOs is a bad thing, doesn`t necessarily mean the Swiss agree.
  28. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:57 am
    @AmishHacker

    Not every nation believes in the same personal/social balance that your nation does. And that`s fine.
  29. Profile photo of banjolegs
    banjolegs Male 30-39
    176 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 1:17 am
    If you are a self made head of business, I don`t see a problem with you reaping the rewards of your success. If your company is that successful can`t you afford to pay your lowest paid workers more?
    What I do resent is people who have just worked their way through the ranks of large business by dint of outliving everyone else and getting paid a sh8t-ton of money for it. That isn`t talent that`s a parasite.
    From the look of the Swiss, they believe that this will raise standards by promoting better pay for low end workers rather than causing the CEO to leave.
  30. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 1:33 am
    Why is it people focus on the limit of higher salaries?
    The method promotes educating your lower wage workforce and in turn enabling higher "lower" wage limits which in turn raises your own (CEO) salary?

    Its remarkable how many people refuse to see past their own hands in this matter and see at least a degree of wisdom in this solution. Sure it might not work in the US, or even in other countries than Switzerland.

    @Oldollie This has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism, its about solving a wider financial problem.
  31. Profile photo of Bakcagain21
    Bakcagain21 Male 18-29
    560 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:40 am
    People saying they won`t move. Look at what happened in France when they were attempting (and still are) the Super Tax. There was a big exodus to Belgium, Netherlands and London. How do we know this, real estate buyers and recruitment agencies told us. With it they take their money and investment and business acumen. As Dave Cameron said "we`ll roll out the Red Carpet for them"

    The people who will stay are the ones with kids in school and a wife in the country. They`ll put up with it. When you remove those factors, or have the next generation of skilled employees who are not linked tot he country, they will go to other Business and Financial hubs. London, Shanghai, Singapore Hong Kong etc

    Another great example is Premiership in UK. Arguable the toughest and most competitive league. Only 30% of it`s players are British, most is foreign talent. Why because pay restrictions were removed and they can pay for whatever it takes to get the best players, playing h
  32. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:58 am
    "Why is it people focus on the limit of higher salaries?
    The method promotes educating your lower wage workforce and in turn enabling higher "lower" wage limits which in turn raises your own (CEO) salary?"

    If I were a scheming CEO under such a regime, I`d have a plan: Let`s outsource all the poor people`s jobs to poorer people in other countries. We contract out all the menial tasks and fire the little people. We then set the minimum wage at whatever we want to get paid, divided by 12. If that`s too high then you`ll hire me, my wife, brother and my three kids barely out of school, all at 12x minimum wage.
  33. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:59 am
    You forget that rich people are able to make all their own rules and choose the jurisdictions that apply.
  34. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:59 am
    You`re right soundman. Other countries have their share of left-wing $#!+-for-brains socialist f**tards, too.

    really? so you don`t see that the current economic crisis is largely due to the fact that the money doesn`t roll, and it can`t roll becuase it`s in the hands of a few large corps and a bunch of rich people who wont spend it? or are you just to busy pointing your finger and screaming stupid! Moron! there`s a concept you might want to look up called pyramid schemes..

  35. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 3:16 am
    It`s also worth pointing out that nobody is any doubt that the recent economic crisis initially sparked off in America, with the housing crisis.

    Regardless of *what* it was in America that started it off, or whose policies allowed it, the fact remains that it wasn`t a "socialist" nation that brought the world`s economy teetering and crashing. It was America.

    Something to keep in mind when criticising "socialist" countries.
  36. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 5:17 am
    Musuko: "Money isn`t always the deciding factor when it comes to where you want to live."

    Tell that to the entrepreneurs leaving Italy for places like Poland. Link

    Even Ferrari moved part of it`s factory to Poland.
  37. Profile photo of kvetcher
    kvetcher Male 50-59
    213 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 5:19 am
    @Musuko42
    The "socialist" countries were indeed not to blame for the current crisis. This is because Burma, Cuba and North Korea ~(plus a couple of African basket-cases) are barely part of the world economy.
    If you want to tone down "socialist" to just plain "left-wing", though, then in Europe the "left-wing" governments in the Club Med countries kept on borrowing because they gambled that Germany/the ECB would bail them out; Labour in the UK just thought they had abolished boom and bust and just kept on borrowing regardless. That`s where Europe`s crisis came from.
  38. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 5:50 am
    We DO understand.That`s why we`re America.
  39. Profile photo of Reebo
    Reebo Male 40-49
    11 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:12 am
    I find it sadly humorous that the naive people supporting this thing it would change a thing. Instead of the CEO and the mailroom clerk being in the same company they will simply break the company up into several smaller companies owned by the parent company. The folks at the top will still be outrageously paid, but everyone in that parent company will be outrageously paid so it`ll still be legal.

    Hamfisted solutions never work.
  40. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:33 am
    Money isn`t always the deciding factor when it comes to where you want to live.

    When running a massive corp it`s a huge factor of deciding where to setup your HQ. Now what to stop something like that from moving it HQ to another place and just keeping it`s money makers stores or whatever there. How would you cap that executive salary then?
  41. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:36 am
    Sounds like loophole city to me like I said below. Also does this account for bonuses and stock bonuses?
  42. Profile photo of jbwhite
    jbwhite Male 18-29
    1292 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:39 am
    @kvetcher

    Myanmar.
  43. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:47 am


    NOW IN LIGHT SPREAD..ing of wealth!!
  44. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:08 am
    CrakrJak:
    "So the owner of a company, the person that risked his capital, isn`t entitled to the profits?
    This is pure socialist bullsh|t."
    -----
    Not at all. You see, there is nothing wrong with a CEO, the guy who put in the capital and took the risks, owning a yacht, a mansion, 10 cars etc. etc. Go for it! You took the risks, you deserve to reap the rewards. The problem is when that same guy isn`t happy with 10 cars and decides he wants 20, plus a second mansion. Then, he decides to get it by cutting back his employees salaries. This causes them to earn barely enough money to live while the CEO buys his second yacht. His greed has a HUGE negative impact on society. Along with running a huge corporation comes the responsibility to look after your employees. If you don`t, then you are no better than a sweat shop owner. Someone needs to step in and help look out for the employees that you are screwing over.

  45. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:13 am
    @McGovern1981
    You righties have a really hard time understanding what Communism is. I can tell you what it isn`t, it`s not the government stepping in to stop the abuse of it`s people. Making sure that Corporations pay their employees fairly is no different than making sure we have laws in place to stop theft. It`s making sure that everyone is being treated fairly.

    Here`s an idea, try working 12 hours shifts for minimum wage and see how long you last before you start realizing how corperate greed and the abuse of your employees is wrong.
  46. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:16 am
    Sometimes I think that the right is just "cutting off it`s nose to spite it`s face". Demanding that people get paid less and the rich get tax cuts and get paid more. This is the brainwashed call of the righty. Either that or the call of one of the heartless rich bastards that want more money at any cost.

    ...and just to reiterate, I have no problem with people being rich. When you deserve it, you deserve it. But don`t run over thousands of employees to do it.
  47. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:26 am
    Tell that to the entrepreneurs leaving Italy for places like Poland. even Ferrari moved part of it`s factory to Poland.

    the frigging best part about that Crackjack,, is that all the polis labourers up and left for better wages (were swimming in them over here) which means that the labour price is actualy going up in poland, so unless there is a tax advantage i`m pretty sure those factories will be moving in the not to far future..
  48. Profile photo of Big_And_Tall
    Big_And_Tall Male 40-49
    36 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:38 am
    FIX YOUR KEYBOARD ALREADY!!! >-( >-( >-(
  49. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:49 am
    You righties have a really hard time understanding what Communism is. I can tell you what it isn`t, it`s not the government stepping in to stop the abuse of it`s people. Making sure that Corporations pay their employees fairly is no different than making sure we have laws in place to stop theft. It`s making sure that everyone is being treated fairly.

    I told you before I`m not a Rebup or a Dem. I don`t care about your party. Why is it when lefts hear someone who disagrees with them they label you instantly?

    One of communisms basic ideas was everyone gets paid equally right? Hence why I called it communism light it`s quite the similar principle. It does nothing to stop them from leaving and sound like loophole land. Government control of private business work out so well for Russia in the past.....
  50. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:53 am
    Here`s an idea, try working 12 hours shifts for minimum wage and see how long you last before you start realizing how corperate greed and the abuse of your employees is wrong.

    Assume a bit? Yep never worked more than a 12 hour day waiting tables for yuppies in upstate NY right on lake George in the summer while in college... oh no wait I did do that and it was less than minimum cause I depended on tips!
  51. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:54 am
    so unless there is a tax advantage i`m pretty sure those factories will be moving in the not to far future..

    How`s this working out for you in the NOW again?
  52. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:55 am
    Notice there is no answer as to what keeps a big shot from rebasing their HQ and paying themselves whatever they want......
  53. Profile photo of kvetcher
    kvetcher Male 50-59
    213 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:58 am
    @ibwhite
    Maybe.
    Wikipedia, interestingly, re-directs from Myanmar to Burma.
    Is the name of a country in the English language what its inhabitants or government from time to time call it, or is it the English word for that country? I don`t call North Korea by the phonetic pronunciation of its Korean name. Deutschland, Espana, etc, etc.
  54. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    788 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 7:59 am
    "Government control of private business work out so well for Russia in the past....."

    Certain kinds of government control over certain kinds of businesses work great. See China, France, and Germany.

    There`s a reason we have anti-monopoly laws and food subsidies in the U.S. When you have a good that everyone MUST purchase (in other words, there is no supply/demand curve, just demand) with zero government controls, inflation can get quite unmanageable.
  55. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5606 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:10 am
    "what keeps a big shot from rebasing their HQ"
    I think I heard the Ikea dude did that. I could be mistaken.
  56. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:15 am
    @bliznik

    When you have a good that everyone MUST purchase (in other words, there is no supply/demand curve, just demand) with zero government controls, inflation can get quite unmanageable.
    I`m not convinced that you understand economics enough to preach about them.

    First off, there is always a curve. In a perfectly inelastic demand (theoretical, not real world), the demand curve would be vertical.

    Now, it`s important to understand that changes in supply and demand tend to affect price directly, which then may have an indirect effect on the other`s quantity. However, with a perfectly inelastic demand like you described, any changes to the supply are likely unimportant to demand - only price.
  57. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:17 am
    Certain kinds of government control over certain kinds of businesses work great. See China, France, and Germany.

    And the government controlling wages of all business wouldn`t be certain kinds of businesses would it?
  58. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:23 am
    @bliznik

    As for inflation, it is currently unmanageable because of Federal money policies; monopolies and oligarchies cannot distort the entire marketplace.

    Inflation in the market is a result of new money entering the market without a change in resources/assets. Put plainly, "printing" money without either backing it via new resources or destroying an equivalent amount of money results in inflation. Unfortunately, this is exactly what happens here - it`s called fiat money and it`s a product of our strange fractional reserve banking system.

    Imagine these scenarios:

    A - The market has 10 gold coins and $100;
    B - The market has 10 gold coins and $1000;

    In which market do you suppose the gold coins cost more? Well, obviously it`s B. Despite this, the market still only has 10 identical gold coins!
  59. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:05 am
    @McGovern1981, You may claim to not be a righty, but you certainly talk like you. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

    This isn`t about paying everyone equally. Not by a long shot. This is about making sure that the CEO and others at the top aren`t hording all the cash and letting the guys who work for it suffer. There should be a ratio in place. When you make a certain amount of money more than your employees, that amount is taxed, a lot. Then they can decide whether to give that cash to the government or give it to their employees. The other option is to allow all employees to buy into the company through percentages of their paychecks. Then, the more hours you work, the better the company does, the more you get paid.
  60. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:14 am
    You may claim to not be a righty, but you certainly talk like you. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

    We`ve been over this..... I support legalizing weed, no religion with Gov. and keeping planned parenthood open. So I can`t be too far right. It always amusing how the far left side preaching against putting people into groups then proceeds to do just that with whomever disagrees with them.....
  61. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:14 am
    This is perfectly workable- if well written, and will work in Switzerland. It won`t work in the US because for some obscure reason they do not understand how fair play benefits everyone.. I know plenty of Americans who think the NHS is a terrible idea- DESPITE not having good healthcare themselves... weird how it works!
  62. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:23 am
    McGovern1981"
    "We`ve been over this..... I support legalizing weed, no religion with Gov. and keeping planned parenthood open. So I can`t be too far right. It always amusing how the far left side preaching against putting people into groups then proceeds to do just that with whomever disagrees with them....."
    ----

    It`s a might hypocritical of you to assume that I am a far left liberal...
  63. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:24 am
    ..and...as for working at minimum wage, we all had to do it, but now a lot of us are in a position to try and raise families on it. Here is some very simple math for you:
    Ontario Minimum Wage=$10.25
    $10.25x40 hours a week = $410 per week
    $410 x 4.34 (number of weeks in a month)=$1779.40 per month and that`s before taxes are taken off.
    Average price for a 2 bedroom apartment here: $1200 a month plus heat and hydro (add another $110 for that).=$1330 a month.
    Now add in car and gas, clothing, debt payments, groceries, household expenses and child raising costs and you can quickly see that minimum wage is not enough. The response of "Get a better paying job" doesn`t cut it either as there aren`t any around. So...what should a person in this situation do? Turn to a life of crime? Sell drugs? Rob banks? What do they do?
  64. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6665 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:39 am
    1;12 isn`t going to work for so many reasons, but I agree that when the wealth gap becomes a massive wealth chasm then society suffers.

    But if you have, as most organisations must, unqualified, semi-skilled staff making a reasonable £15,000 then asking your highly qualified, experienced staff to accept a limit of £180,000 regardless of how good they are and what they bring to the organisation is unrealistic.







  65. Profile photo of greenbasterd
    greenbasterd Male 18-29
    2377 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:40 am
    some people might call you a communist for this belief.. but they all make to much money
  66. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:50 am
    @patchouli

    The problem with it is that you`d have to get every country in the world to agree to do it or the company will just find a way around it like I`ve shown in the comments below. The whole raising the min wage thing isn`t a fix either because then they just raise priced to cover cost thereby perpetuating the cycle.
  67. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:05 am
    @redofluke1 If it doesn`t work whats the worst thing that could happen they repeal the law?
    That makes as much sense as burning down your house to get rid of the roosterroaches.

    "If it doesn`t work what`s the worst thing that could happen? You can just put out the fire, right?
  68. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:11 am
    McGovern1981:
    "The problem with it is that you`d have to get every country in the world to agree to do it or the company will just find a way around it like I`ve shown in the comments below. The whole raising the min wage thing isn`t a fix either because then they just raise priced to cover cost thereby perpetuating the cycle."
    -------
    But the solution then isn`t to do nothing at all. If people aren`t making enough to survive and crime is increasing because of it, something has to be done. Shooting that it`s a "Socialist way of thinking" doesn`t help the problem. It just ignores it and tries to put down anyone who wants to fix it.
  69. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:14 am
    "Shouting" not "Shooting". Stupid spell checker.
  70. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:17 am
    The main issue, as I`ve seen it, is that a lot of Conservatives group anyone who is not making at least $50,000 a year into the "Lazy" category. Sure, there are a ton of people out there that don`t make money because they don`t work enough. But there are also a lot of people out there that work their asses off but, because of greedy bosses, don`t make enough money to live on. They live off their credit cards or, as I said, resort to crime. This is why there is a trend toward higher debts and higher crime rates. It only gets worse from here.
  71. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:18 am
    @Modwain I cant think of anything as threathening to a society as an increasing gap between the most wealthy and the most poor.
    I must say, I admire your honesty in admitting your cognitive deficiencies. Let me explain it for you.

    What`s more threatening is if the people at the people at the BOTTOM are doing worse by an objective, not a relative, standard. Rich people doing better always makes life better poor people.

    Poor people plant crops with pointed sticks and harvest them with sharp rocks; rich people build tractor factories so poor people can afford food.

    Poor people die from common infections; rich people build pharmaceutical companies so poor people can have life-saving drugs.

    Poor people walk wherever they go. Rich people build car companies so poor people can drive.

    Poor people communicate with drums and smoke signals; rich people build cellular networks so poor people can have phones.

    Get it?
  72. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:20 am
    @McGovern1981

    "Why is it when lefts hear someone who disagrees with them they label you instantly?"

    That`s not unique to the left. Look at how liberally (ho ho) CrakrJak and 5Cats (and others) bandy about the liberal label.
  73. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:23 am
    @McGovern1981, the reason I can`t believe it`s not communism is because it actually is.
  74. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:33 am
    OldOllie
    What`s more threatening is if the people at the people at the BOTTOM are doing worse by an objective, not a relative, standard. Rich people doing better always makes life better poor people.
    -----

    That`s a wonderful theory but about as realistic as Santa Clause and God.

    How is it "better for poor people" if the greedy bastards at the top keep all the money and do nothing to improve the lives of the poor? How is it better if, instead of trickling down the abundance, they keep it all for themselves and write laws so they pay no taxes too. How is it better that poor people can`t even afford to buy healthy food?

    Get your head out of your a$$.
  75. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:35 am
    That`s not unique to the left. Look at how liberally (ho ho) CrakrJak and 5Cats (and others) bandy about the liberal label.

    This is also true I suppose both sides do it.
  76. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:43 am
    @McGovern1981:
    "This is also true I suppose both sides do it."
    -----

    Wow! You`ve seemed extra civil this afternoon. Makes me feel like I could have an actual discussion with you without both of us resorting to name calling. Might be a nice change.
  77. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:48 am
    Shooting that it`s a "Socialist way of thinking" doesn`t help the problem. It just ignores it and tries to put down anyone who wants to fix it.

    Well ya that`s why it`s "I can`t belive it`s not Communism" it`s the new light spread of wealth for all! It`s flawed and when you put polices like that in place they can have some big economic repercussions all I see here are loopholes like their banking system.
  78. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:11 pm
    The problem I have, McGovern1981, is that both sides are screwed. You can`t take money away from the rich and you can`t give money to the poor. So...what do you do? One side is going to have to suck it up. The big difference is, if you take the money from the rich, they can buy one less house. If you take it from the poor, they can`t afford to buy healthy food for their kids. So...what`s worse? Making a fat cat pay taxes and give his employees a proper wage or let that poor guy who is working 12 hours a week, in a back breaking job, tell his kid that they can`t afford dinner tonight? Which would you say is the lesser of two evils?
  79. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 12:12 pm
    Hint, the guy shutting down the orphanage while twisting his moustache, is the bad guy.
  80. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 1:41 pm
    patchouly-"try working 12 hours shifts for minimum wage and see how long you last before you start realizing how corperate greed and the abuse of your employees"

    I`ve done that, and I was never dumb enough to believe that the fact I was working long hours for minimum had anything to do with `corperate greed` (it was because I had zero job skills), nor did I consider it as abuse (I considered it an oportunity).

    Took me about a day to realize `Hey, this suck`. Was the first thing that popped into my head `Hey, the company boss is screwing me`? No, it was `I`m gonna develope some job skills so I DON`T HAVE TO work for crappy wages`..

    And quite trying to compare cost of living with minimum wage. Minimum wage is for school kids. It was never designed as a livable wage.
  81. Profile photo of chicagojay
    chicagojay Male 40-49
    2018 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm
    Fact: Nope
  82. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5606 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:27 pm
    "Hint, the guy shutting down the orphanage while twisting his moustache, is the bad guy."
    I NEVER TOUCHED MY GODDAMNED MUSTACHE!!! And those orphans had it coming because no one paid the mortgage...
  83. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:43 pm
    MeGrendel:
    "It was never designed as a livable wage."
    -------
    Open up a newspaper and look for any job that isn`t part time, minimum wage. It may have been designed for high school kids, but it`s what most of us wind up with. Those greedy corporate bastards won`t hire much else now a days.

    Thanks to the greed of the company owners, there is not much left for us out there. It`s take the crappy jobs and like it. You`re seeing more and more people with University degrees, flipping burgers and selling clothing because that`s all that`s out there. But you guys keep your heads in the clouds. Pretend it`s not happening because you were one of the lucky ones who snuck through. The old "If I can do it, so can you" line that is completely devoid of any real experience or understanding of the real World. You have a lot to learn about the way things really work.
  84. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 11:53 pm
    "Open up a newspaper and look for any job that isn`t part time, minimum wage. It may have been designed for high school kids, but it`s what most of us wind up with. Those greedy corporate bastards won`t hire much else now a days."

    You need to better yourself.

    Partly it`s down to the economy. You need to do your part in fixing that, too.
  85. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 6:06 am
    kvetcher, the current economic crisis started with the fall of lehman and fanny may, both were not big in cuba, burma and north korea
    And mc govern, you are right, there is very little in the way to sto[- company owners to pay themselves ( and their personal ) what ever they want, hence the rule change. take it or leave.
    And Madduck, i hate to admit it, but i fear you are very right
  86. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 6:26 am
    And, Old Ollie, making the gap between the top and the bottom bigger is not only a result of the income crisis, its also what destabilizes a country, an ec0onomy and indeed, social coherency. it becomes easier to make the step into crime, for all involved, poor because they need to keep their head above the water, rich because, well, if a lot of peeps do it, they can get away with it. This has happened in the past time and again. This was the main reason several banks fled europe to the new country in the 1800 and this is why its a bad thing.. so to recap, are rich peeps bad? No, but once the greed kicks in, they can become bad. Are poor people bad? no, but if they feel tehy have no choice, they will have to do what they feel they have to do.
    Is this the society you want, well, there you go. I for one do not want a society like that, i am more inclined to support the swiss in this. And this is the 4th post i made, cause i lost all the others and i got to lazy to retype it again
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 6:29 am
    oh, and ollie, your attempt to insult, even by using fancy words, failed. you have neither earned or gathered the right to insult anyone. I know you keep trying, but i thought i just mention it.

    i will leave you with a bit of wisdom to contemplate over. Those above me do not want to insult me, those below me cannot insult me. In the end, i am not the one to decide wether someone is above me or below me, only they can with their actions.
  • Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 11:54 am

    SQUIRRELS OF THE WORLD, UNITE! WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR NUTS!

  • Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 12:18 pm
    A) how do they punish Google, Starbucks, Apple CEO`s since theyre not Swiss and make more money than god?

    B) what prevents them from packing up and opening shop elsewhere? Obviously not all would be able to compete in a new and foreign market, but certainly some of these CEOs could.
  • Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 2:25 pm
    How is it "better for poor people" if the greedy bastards at the top keep all the money and do nothing to improve the lives of the poor?
    It wouldn`t be if the world really worked the way it does in your pernicious, collectivist worldview. In the real world, you can`t get rich if all your customers are impoverished.

    The only places in the world where the rich get richer while the poor get poorer is in corrupt, centrally planned, socialist $#!+holes like you want to turn us into.

    Capitalism requires a free market with prosperous customers to buy products and services in order for the rich to get richer. Socialism, on the other hand, only requires thugs with guns.
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    old ollie, you mean in that plutocracy you call the united states of america? where you can get rich on empoverished citizens, where corruption is indeed wide spread?

    see, you are mistaken into thinking that america is a capitalistic country, cause this is basicly what you keep getting told, but capitalism means no government bail outs for companies. But bail outs happen a lot in the good olde us of a, hence, plutocracy, not capitalism.
    And you are right that a lot of countries are corrupt, thoug i doubt socialism is the root cause or this, but if it were, the scandinavic countries must be riddled with corruption, kinda like germany, the netherlands, belgium, they must be floating on it as it were. Are they? for what they are is this, a socialistic democracy, hell, some even still have a royal family, how archeic is that, cant posibly work, right?

    oh, and just to make sure, for everyone, that was indeed sarcasm, not to good at it but still
  • Profile photo of liabach
    liabach Male 40-49
    3242 posts
    October 13, 2013 at 9:48 am
    it already basically is this way in america, except we use a hierarchical logarithm for equality
  • Profile photo of Lebowski42
    Lebowski42 Male 18-29
    67 posts
    October 14, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    Coming from a country who gains much of its revenue by acting as a tax haven...
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