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Date: 10/07/13 02:39 PM

60 Responses to Elections Have Consequences–Indeed, They Do

  1. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:39 pm
    Link: Elections Have Consequences--Indeed, They Do - John Boehner speaks of Obamacare after Mitt Romney`s defeat.
  2. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:47 pm
    For the loonies who are saying the Democrats shut the government down:

    Rep. Peter King ® says "We are the ones who did shut the government down"
  3. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:48 pm
    Cheap shot @Squrlz4, a 20 second clip? From LAST YEAR?

    Here`s a Little Bit More An extra minute makes a HUGE difference, eh?

    What He Says These Days
    >The Republicans have sent 12+ Funding Bills to keep America going? The Senate Democrats have refused to vote on them.
    >The President talked to the opposition: to tell them he refuses to negotiate. :-?

    But it`s 100% Republicans to blame, right?
  4. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    @FoolsPrussia: A 23 second clip? the OPINION of ONE House member? THAT is your "proof"?

    Not the things Reid or Obama ACTUALLY DO... heavens no!

    A Longer Video on the subject.
  5. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm
    5Cats

    "The Republicans have sent 12+ Funding Bills to keep America going? The Senate Democrats have refused to vote on them.
    The President talked to the opposition: to tell them he refuses to negotiate."

    Every single one of those defunded Obamacare. THAT is what this is all about.

    Obamacare was passed by the house.
    Obamacare was passed by the senate.
    Obamacare was signed by the president.
    Obamacare was upheld by the supreme court.

    THAT is how our system of checks and balances is supposed to work.

    Having all those things happen and THEN trying to get rid of something by refusing to vote on a budget that includes it is NOT the way it is supposed to happen.
  6. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 2:59 pm
    @5Cats:

    Where in that video does Mike Lee refute Peter King`s claim that the Republicans shut the government down? All he did was complain about Obamacare and defend the shutdown.

    So thanks for making my point.
  7. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 3:00 pm
    No ship, Captain Obvious Fools Prussia. Republicans and Democrats are ruining this country, and in this case the Republicans are being mega-dooshes.

    But you won`t care that the Democrats shut down the gov`t 12-15 times (18 times total).

    Yes, it`s all dooshy. All around. I think the Republicans are being incredibly d00shy, I have zero allegiance to them, but you will not repudiate the total dooshocity of the Donkey gang you chose to be a part of that is also destroying this country, and you`re criticizing the Elephant gang for doing things that your Donkey gang has done a dozen + times!
  8. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 3:02 pm
    "you will not repudiate the total dooshocity of the Donkey gang you chose to be a part of that is also destroying this country"

    I`m not a Democrat.
  9. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 3:07 pm
    I feel kinda bad for him. I feel bad for a lot of republicans. If they don`t act like this they will get primaried in their next election by a tea party whack a mole.

    Watch the crazy peel off of bachman. THIS is who is running the republican party.


    Bach-s.hit Crazy
  10. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm

  11. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 4:13 pm
  12. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm
    @ HolyGod: Regarding that Bachmann clip: horrifying. For any Europeans, New Zealanders, or Australians wondering why America seems to have gone into SELF-DESTRUCT mode, that 10-minute clip should help explain a lot.

    In short: Republican congressional districts were gerrymandered to create bizarre, far-right districts unrepresentative of the American public at large--imagine a congressional district, for example, composed of 5Cats, CrakrJak, and OldOllie. Those districts were then used to elect Tea Partiers. Since their constituents are virtually all far-far-right, the elected representatives have absolutely ZERO incentive to compromise on anything, lest another Tea Partier take their seat. The end result is a party being run by Michelle Bachmannesque ideologues who are willing to throw the American economy off the cliff to get what they want, majority rule be damned.
  13. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 4:28 pm



    "The End Times are coming! The End Times are coming!"
  14. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 4:35 pm
    Out of curiosity (I don`t want to take part in this cesspool of a debate), can someone answer this:

    I`ve always wondered how far-right is used to describe Hitler, Tea Partiers, and people like Ron Paul. The latter two being considered proto-anarchists (though I would argue half of tea-partiers are just Conservative social engineers in disguise) It just doesn`t make sense how they can all be far-right.

    If "right" means less government, then Hitler has to be far-left. If "right" means more government, then Ron Paul is a leftist, which I don`t think Jon Stewart would agree with. So which is it? National Socialist?

    It`s a stupid conversation, all of this though. It`s a circular argument in the lamest partisan terms possible. The answer to the whole debate is, "Yes, Democrats and Republicans are ruining the country. You can take a situation here or there where it`s mostly one or the other, but add it all up and it`s both."
  15. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    "..districts were gerrymandered to create bizarre, far-right districts"

    The most gerrymandered districts in America were created by democrats for democrats. Link

    Unfortunately for the democrats some of their gerrymandering went out on a limb and they lost several districts due, in 2010, due to their scribbley hubris.
  16. Profile photo of Twinklestein
    Twinklestein Male 30-39
    513 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 5:10 pm
    Republicans and Democrats in Washington. The only difference between them is the WAY they want to destroy the country.
  17. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 5:12 pm
    I see you fell for the Harry Reid kid with cancer misquote too, hahaha!
  18. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    @ CrakrJak: Gerrymandering has been done by both Republicans and Democrats to the detriment of our government. What`s needed is a constitutional amendment to forbid it on the basis of equal representation.

    That said, Republicans have raised gerrymandering to a Machiavellian artform. Want proof? More Americans voted for Democrats than Republicans in the 2010 elections--1.4 million more--yet the Republicans gained the most seats.

    Nice trick!

    In my state, Pennsylvania, here`s how it went down:
    Votes for Democrats: 2,794,078 = 5 seats
    Votes for Republicans: 2,710,070 = 13 seats!

    In Michigan:
    Votes for Democrats: 2,327,985 = 5 seats
    Votes for Republicans: 2,086,804 = 9 seats!

    In Wisconsin:
    Votes for Democrats: 1,443,190 = 3 seats
    Votes for Republicans: 1,399,871 = 5 seats!

    Et cetera.

    What`s going on with the Tea Party right now is a direct result of this kind of monkeying around with democracy.
  19. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:26 pm
    ~Now we all pause while CrakrJak Googles "Republican talking points about gerrymandering"~

    One can almost smell the smoke from the cogs whirring in Crakr`s brain, such as it is: "Surely there must be some talking points to address the fact that Democrats won the popular vote in the 2010 elections! Something to do with vote fraud, perhaps?"

    Keep looking, CrakrJak. I`m sure that one of the Tea Party think tanks will provide some good material for you. Heaven knows, they spend enough money coming up with that crap.
  20. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm
    Really Nutz4Sale?? You accuse of him of exactly what you`ve done yourself! lol
  21. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:47 pm
    @ RoboPatton: You know what, RoboPatton? My 80-yr-old mother, who holds a doctorate and taught U.S. History for many years, texted me the following regarding the Tea Partiers and the government shutdown today (yes, my 80-yr-old mother has an iPhone and sends text messages):

    "It is very scary. The issues are beyond the average person`s understanding."

    She`s always been sharp as a tack. And reading the comments of you, CrakrJak, and 5Cats today--boy, did she get that one right.

    God help us.
  22. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm
    Every single one of those defunded Obamacare.
    THAT is a LIE!

    LINK or STFU!

    YOU KNOW NOTHING @HolyGod! I`ve even put up links to these bills, and NOT ONE SINGLE ONE has "ObamaCare" in them. I have proven this beyond ANY doubt!

    FACTS! Please associate yourself with them!

    Your LIES are disgusting and despicable...
  23. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:05 pm
    @Squrlz4: Ignores my comment about his 20 second clip...
    Ignores my posting of a LONGER clip which shows his to be UTTER bullshiite...

    @FoolsPrussia: Ignores my comment about his 23 second clip...
    Ignores my posting of a longer clip which UTTERLY disproves his clip...

    Oh YES! The IAB Liberal Brigade is doing what they do best!

    Lie!
    Insult!
    Ignore!

    You Go Girls! Because if that`s ALL you got? It`s pathetic...
  24. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:19 pm
    @ 5Cats: I watched your longer clip, 5Cats, the one you say "shows (the shorter version) to be UTTER bullshiite."

    And what does Boehner say? He acknowledges that ACA is "the Law of the Land" and says he hopes to work through the legislative process to make adjustments. Awesome. Problem is, when he FAILED to repeal Obamacare 42 TIMES, I guess he decided to listen to the Tea Partiers and execute his extortion plan.

    Serious question: Are you schizophrenic? Do you take meds? Have they been adjusted somehow lately? Because what I see more and more from you is a lot of disordered thinking and obsession.
  25. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:38 pm
    He can`t repeal it. He might, however, be able to delay it long enough for people to figure out what a huge clusterf*** it really is before it destroys our entire economy.

    I hope he has the stones to hang tough.
  26. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:41 pm
    ...says he hopes to work through the legislative process to make adjustments.

    EXACTLY! And WHO says NO NEGOTIATIONS???
    Is it... Boehner? HECK NO!
    It`s OABMA!

    So legally doing what he was elected to do is "terrorism" in your eyes? Anarchy? Arson? THAT is what the Dems have called this, and YOU support them.

    Personal questions are best left to private e-mails, don`t you think?

    I`m not "schizophrenic" I have:
    Agoraphobia (it`s bad!)
    Unipolar Depression
    Irritable Bowel Syndrome
    Dissociative Disorder (nasty stuff!)

    Among other things.

    So? What have YOU got @Squrlz4? You asked it? It`s only fair that you "own up" also...
  27. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:10 pm
    @ 5Cats: Sheesh, this is why I had the clear sense somethng was off upstairs. The same points have been explained repeatedly, and yet somehow... they just evaporate and you come back obsessed over some points that have already been addressed.

    ABSOLUTELY NO NEGOTIATIONS should occur as long as the Republicans are trying to hold the country hostage. Once this Tea Party hissy fit is over, if Boehner then wants to lead his 43rd (or 44th or 45th--honestly, I lose count) attempt at repealing the ACA law, HAVE AT IT, HOSS!

    I agree regarding my question; it should have been asked, if asked at all, via email. I apologize. As for myself, I have an underactive thyroid and take a tiny Synthroid pill every morning. Not very exciting, I`m afraid. BP is 102/68, with a resting pulse of 58; total cholesterol is 146--thanks to running and a vegan diet. If I can just avoid being hit by a car, I`m planning on being around for awhile.
  28. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:14 pm
    @S4S ABSOLUTELY NO NEGOTIATIONS should occur as long as the Republicans are trying to hold the country hostage.
    So, what Obama is saying is, "First, you give me EVERYTHING that I want; then we`ll negotiate about what YOU want."

    Who in their right mind would agree to that deal?
  29. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:19 pm
    @ OldOllie: I`ve got news for you, Ollie: Your side is going to lose this one and lose it in a big way. It will take a lot of 1,000-char posts to explain and I rather doubt you`ll be able to accept it anyway. So I`m not sure I`m up for it.

    But tell me this: When Romney lost last year, you were shocked, weren`t you? I`m quite confident that, like Romney himself, you thought the Republicans had the election in the bag and were more than a little stunned at his defeat. Yes?
  30. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:19 pm
    OldOllie

    "First, you give me EVERYTHING that I want"

    What the house passed.
    What the senate passed.
    What the president signed into law.
    What the supreme court upheld.
    That?

    What right do they have to NOT give it to him at this point? It went through the proper channels. However now when it is time to fund it they are refusing since they couldn`t stop it through the proper means.
  31. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:34 pm
    When Romney lost last year, you were shocked, weren`t you?
    Well, I was surprised and disappointed. However, after learning the scope of the IRS scandal, I can certainly understand now how it happened.

    I`ve come to learn that you can tell what kind of shenanigans the Democrats are up to by what they accuse Republicans of doing. When they were all whining about "voter suppression," they were the ones who really doing it -- BIG TIME, and it worked. Romney actually carried independents by a wide margin. He lost because the Republican base didn`t turn out for him. That`s how voter suppression REALLY works.

    And HG, if you want to know what "right" the Republicans have to oppose implimentation of Obamacare, I suggest you read Article I, Section 8 of the constitution.
  32. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:53 pm
    OldOllie

    " I suggest you read Article I, Section 8 of the constitution."

    Uh Huh. I`ve read it. Just read it again to humor you.

    What is your point?

    That it is unconstitutional for the government to do ANYTHING not specifically mentioned on that list? Because that is a metric f.uck ton of things, not just healthcare reform.
  33. Profile photo of Gypsybard
    Gypsybard Male 40-49
    97 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:59 pm
    HG:

    Point taken on the bill`s passage. However, since its passing, the President has altered it on numerous occasions...a right that the Chief Executive simply does not have. They are attempting to defund this because it is not what was agreed upon prior to the vote.

    Also, part of the negotiations were that Congress, the Senate and the White House staff would have to also enroll in ObamaCare. They are citizens just like us. "Of the people, by the people, for the people," you know what I mean? The President refused to negotiate unless that was taken off the table. Congress has a "Gold Plan" health insurance system that costs them, out of pocket, a total of $670 a year. The average American`s deductible is higher than that.

    This elitist nonsense is reminiscent of France under Louis XVI. This "let them eat cake" mentality has got to stop. If it doesn`t, it will destroy us for sure.
  34. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 11:59 pm
    OldOllie

    "Romney actually carried independents by a wide margin."

    You aren`t taking into account the psychology of self-identifying as an "independent".

    From business insider:

    Jim Williams, an analyst at Public Policy Polling, explained that a voter`s choice to identify as an Independent can change by the day. Republicans who were disenchanted with Romney might have been more apt to identify as Independent, as Democrats were in 2004 when they were dissatisfied with Kerry.

    In 2012, a much more reliable indicator of success — and a better example of the "swing" vote — came from voters who identified as "moderate." In every critical battleground state, Obama won the moderate vote. In Iowa, he captured more than 60% of it. Overall, Obama beat Romney by 15 points among moderates."
  35. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 12:07 am
    gypsybard

    "Also, part of the negotiations were that Congress, the Senate and the White House staff would have to also enroll in ObamaCare. They are citizens just like us. "Of the people, by the people, for the people," you know what I mean? The President refused to negotiate unless that was taken off the table. Congress has a "Gold Plan" health insurance system that costs them, out of pocket, a total of $670 a year. The average American`s deductible is higher than that."

    Jesus Mother F.ucking Christ

    This is why we can`t even debate. You guys are so misinformed you don`t know what we are debating.

    THERE IS NO EXEMPTION FOR CONGRESS FROM OBAMACARE.
  36. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 1:45 am
    ABSOLUTELY NO NEGOTIATIONS
    So @Squrlz4? The previous 17 times? SEVENTEEN TIMES? Which the PotUS negotiated were... stupid?
    And Obama`s refusal to BUDGE ONE INCH is... NOBEL PRIZE WINNING!
    ic...

    @HolyGod: You`ve utterly IGNORED all the modifications Obama has imposed... and DEFEND his refusal for ANY further changes?

    Wait... what?

    It`s almost as if... you were LIBERAL or something...

    Welcome to IAB @Gypsybard! Just ignore the lefty-trolls, they bark but have NO BITE at all! ;-)
  37. Profile photo of kangoala
    kangoala Male 18-29
    702 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 1:50 am
    @OldOllie
    Quit using The Constitution as a backdrop to your shallow political rhetoric. Anyone can read it, might I suggest trying to understand it?
  38. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:49 am
    @OldOllie

    "When they were all whining about "voter suppression," they were the ones who really doing it -- BIG TIME"

    Two wrongs don`t make a right, now do they?

    The Republicans don`t get a pass for doing wrong just because the Democrats are doing wrong too.

    And sure, the Democrats are unlikely to mention their own wrongdoing when telling off the Republicans, and vice-versa.

    But they`re still right when they point out the wrongdoing. And the Republicans are right to point out *their* wrongdoing.
  39. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:52 am
    @5Cats

    "So @Squrlz4? The previous 17 times? SEVENTEEN TIMES? Which the PotUS negotiated were... stupid?"

    Yes.
  40. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:53 am
    @5Cats

    If the Democrats were using this tactic to derail something the Republicans were putting into law, something that you personally support, would you be defending the tactic?
  41. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:57 am
    @5Cats

    You freely admit to having a raft of mental issues, and I respect you for being open about them, and you have my sympathy for having to deal with them.

    Can you not accept the possibility that those mental issues are affecting your ability to be rational about these topics that are clearly important to you?

    Can you not at least try to be introspective for a while and explore the possibility that your own judgement is impaired?

    Please?
  42. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4085 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 7:13 am
    @5cats I appreciate the honesty. I don`t want to belittle your situation or you, but Musuko42 brings up a valid probing. Could those be issues that interferes with your rationality?
  43. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 9:52 am
    gypsybard

    "Also, part of the negotiations were that Congress, the Senate and the White House staff would have to also enroll in ObamaCare. They are citizens just like us. "Of the people, by the people, for the people," you know what I mean? The President refused to negotiate unless that was taken off the table. Congress has a "Gold Plan" health insurance system that costs them, out of pocket, a total of $670 a year. The average American`s deductible is higher than that."

    Jesus Mother F.ucking Christ

    This is why we can`t even debate. You guys are so misinformed you don`t know what we are debating.

    THERE IS NO EXEMPTION FOR CONGRESS FROM OBAMACARE.
  44. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:15 am
    "EXACTLY! And WHO says NO NEGOTIATIONS???"

    @5Cats, every police force refuses to negotiate with terrorists and hostage takers if it appears as though no lives will be taken if no negotiations occur. (i.e. if hostages are taken, but the terrorists/hostage takers have no lethal weapons) Here, there are two "lives" at risk, (1) Obamacare, (2) all of the non-self-funded federal programs. (only 17% of government is shut down)

    Interestingly enough, all of the Obamacare provisions are "self-funded" and so they`re still up and running.

    So, Republicans have one "life" that they`re threatening, and they want Dems to exchange one life with another life. (I will spare all of the non self-funded government programs so long as you give me Obamacare to kill...or let me maim it so severely that it dies on its own)

    But, it appears as though if the Dems do nothing, both lives will be saved.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:46 am
    HG: It is a fact that congress and it`s staff are getting a 75% subsidy so that they DO NOT have to use the exchanges.

    Washington Times
  46. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:55 am
    Crakr

    "It is a fact that congress and it`s staff are getting a 75% subsidy so that they DO NOT have to use the exchanges."

    NO. NO. NO. Can we even read and agree what words say? Read your own link.

    "Under the OLD SYSTEM, the federal government contributed to about 75 percent of premiums"

    "House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, said Friday that members of Congress and their staffs must enroll in the exchanges, as required by the law."

    What the f.uck are you talking about? Aside from the title WHERE does that article say they are exempt?


  47. Profile photo of Gypsybard
    Gypsybard Male 40-49
    97 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:57 am
    HG:

    This was my first post on this issue. No need to get so "JMFC" upset. Additionally, I am not in a debate, nor am I grossly misinformed.
    The "exemption" for Congress, Staffers and (to use a simplified description), "Big Business" interests has been extended until Jan. 1, 2015, (according to my latest research. If incorrect, better information is certainly welcomed!).
    It was bad enough when they were given a padding until 1/1/2014 when the rest of us had to toe the scratch immediately.
    Additionally, the greatest problem with this is that these "extensions," along with other modifications to the "law of the land" were made by the pen of the President...a power that he most certainly does not wield.
    Very simply, if this law is good enough for one American, it is good enough for all...at the same time. Also, the President must exercise his power and his restraint as has been outlined in our Constitution, and s
  48. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:17 am
    Can you not accept the possibility that those mental issues are affecting your ability to be rational about these topics that are clearly important to you?

    @Musuko42 & @normalfreak2: Actually, I DO worry about that! And occasionally have a "brain cramp" where a dumb idea gets stuck in my head, it`s true!
    Trust me: I `self-edit` a LOT!

    But since others completely agree with my positions? I think I`ve got them right :-)

    @Squrlz4 & @HolyGod: it`s the JOB of the HOUSE to FUND the USA! Ok? If they want to CUT FUNDING they pass a bill, which is exactly what they`re TRYING to do!
    It`s how the system is SUPPOSED to work!

    The PotUS is NOT SUPPOSED to alter Bills after they are passed UNLESS the House votes on those changes. He has altered it, did not get the Congressional approval REQUIRED by law...
  49. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:24 am
    @bliznik: If ObamaCare is "self-funded" WHY does it need hundreds of billions in... funding!
    The House couldn`t "de-fund" it if this were the case, yes?

    The police will ALWAYS "talk to" hostage takers and terrorists, but rarely give them anything.
    In this case? Obama wants ALL the things his way or NOTHING. He vowed to VETO any bill which threatens ObamaCare`s funding, period. So, who`s the "hostage taker" here?

    @HolyGod: Of course they have to "enrol in the system" but they don`t have to USE ObamaCare! For the politicians? They already have full coverage, so it won`t apply to them anyhow.
  50. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6913 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:30 am
    5Cats

    "For the politicians? They already have full coverage, so it won`t apply to them anyhow."

    Isn`t that how it works for most americans? I don`t understand what you guys are complaining about.
  51. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:31 am
    @5Cats

    "Actually, I DO worry about that! And occasionally have a "brain cramp" where a dumb idea gets stuck in my head, it`s true!
    Trust me: I `self-edit` a LOT!"

    That`s good to hear that you show some self-awareness.

    Why do these certain debates get you so riled?

    "But since others completely agree with my positions? I think I`ve got them right"

    Erm, no. Your position could be that grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon and are sent here to infiltrate our leaders and implant false memories of the Chicken Song being written in 1698 and you would be able to find someone, somewhere who agreed with you.

    Is the logic of your position internally sound? Are you certain of being able to evaluate its logic when your instrument of evaluation (your own mind) is, by your own admission, inherently impaired by your mental issues?
  52. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 12:53 pm
    "If ObamaCare is "self-funded" WHY does it need hundreds of billions in... funding!
    The House couldn`t "de-fund" it if this were the case, yes?"

    @5Cats, Oh gosh, I just realized you don`t actually understand what the government shutdown impacts. OK, there are programs that are "self-funded," meaning that the law specifically states "we raise taxes here, and pay for those things there", and programs that are not "self-funded," meaning that the law states that we need to pay for those things, but doesn`t state where we get that $$$ from.

    That`s the part of the government that is shut down.

    Since Obamacare specifically states, "we will use the $$$ raised here to pay for that there," it is still in effect, even with the government shutdown. This is why the www.healthcare.gov website is still working but the www.nps.gov website is not working.
  53. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:16 pm
    grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon

    @Musuko42: That`s `schizophrenia` eh? I don`t have that! I do have a BA in Psychology though :-) Just enough knowledge to get into trouble...

    @bliznik: I`m not even REMOTELY saying that! I`ve never even wondered why ObamaCare is being "rolled out" in the middle of a shutdown! It`s a `moot point`!

    I AM SAYING that the Congress has the POWER to fund or de-fund! And that ObamaCare IS INDEED within their ability to de-fund.

    Ok?

    House: De-funds, sends Bill to Senate
    Senate: Re-instates funding, sends it back to the House.
    House: Re-De-Funds, sends Bill BACK to Senate...

    And `round and round it goes`!

    Eventually: It gets to Obama`s Desk: he Vetos it.

    NOW it takes 2/3 majority to pass it OVER the veto.

    I do know a little bit (but am not an expert) on how the US System works! :-)
  54. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:11 pm
    @kangoala "Quit using The Constitution as a backdrop to your shallow political rhetoric. Anyone can read it, might I suggest trying to understand it?"

    Sounds great. Let me know if you ever do.

    @Musuko42 "The Republicans don`t get a pass for doing wrong just because the Democrats are doing wrong too."

    ...except that the Republicans WEREN`T doing wrong. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Republicans have engaged in voter suppression. It`s just Democrat lies and slander to cover up their crimes.

    @HG "That it is unconstitutional for the government to do ANYTHING not specifically mentioned on that list? Because that is a metric f.uck ton of things, not just healthcare reform."

    I think you`re finally starting to get it. The government is doing, as you said, "a metric f.uck ton of things" that aren`t authorized by the constitution, and as a consequence, we`re going straight into the $#!++er.
  55. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:14 am
    @5Cats

    "@Musuko42: That`s `schizophrenia` eh? I don`t have that! I do have a BA in Psychology though Just enough knowledge to get into trouble... "

    I never said schizophrenia. I haven`t mentioned the word once. Someone else did. I said "mental issues".

    You`re doing it again, getting people mixed up. You`re talking to many different people here, not one multi-headed whole.

    PLEASE realise that you need to look internally. The above is exactly the sort of thing we`re talking about. You`re getting people confused and lashing out at the wrong person. That`s not a good thing at all.
  56. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:27 am
    @Musuko42: Those symptoms you described were "classic schizophrenia" you don`t need to use the name.

    For example:
    You say: There`s blood pouring out of my proboscis!
    I say: Oh? you have a nosebleed?
    You say: I NEVER said I had a nosebleed!!!

    See? :-)
  57. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:39 am
    @5Cats

    I didn`t describe any symptoms. What are you talking about?

    This?

    "Erm, no. Your position could be that grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon and are sent here to infiltrate our leaders and implant false memories of the Chicken Song being written in 1698 and you would be able to find someone, somewhere who agreed with you."

    Surely it`s clear that I was saying that you could find someone to agree with any position you held, regardless of how rational the position is.

    Meaning, having someone agree with your position is not a good proof of your position being rational.

    How on EARTH did you jump to the conclusion that I was even remotely talking about schizophrenia?

    I think you made a mistake, and are now trying to backtrack with a shaky excuse, rather than just own up to the mistake.
  58. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:41 pm
    O_o Oh sorry man! To me that sounds just like symptoms! Since the general discussion (partly at least) was about mental health? I connected the dots.

    That`s how!

    Honestly? It`s an excellent description of a "typical schizoid delusion" eh? A little short perhaps, they do tend to babble on about things...

    Anyhow: My mistake!
  59. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 1:25 am
    @5Cats

    Good man for admitting your mistake!

    You connected the dots, using a machine (your mind) that you know to be faulty. I hope you`ll try to remember that for next time, and think that perhaps you`re reaching conclusions that aren`t justified by the actual words being typed by the person you`re talking to.

    Take a few extra moments for internal consideration and editing when responding to "liberals" and the like. Think: am I responding to what they`re actually saying, or am I responding to conclusions I`ve drawn using my faulty mind?

    You might step on fewer toes, and might make better progress in convincing other people to your way of thinking.

    I know you`re capable of it, because I`ve caught you at the right time or on the right topic and found you to be pleasant to debate with, as you are now.
  60. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 7:37 pm
    :-) @Musuko42: I generally "respond in kind" but not always, of course.

    It was a small mistake, but still a mistake nonetheless. No hurt from admitting it!

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