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Date: 10/07/13 05:54 PM

62 Responses to Current Budget Crisis Was Planned Months Ago?[Pic+

  1. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:13 pm
    Obama certainly lacks leadership skillz if he`s literally not in control of anything that goes on. People should realize that, in defending Obama in this way, they actually make him look like an incompetent child-like leader who isn`t in charge of anything. Carter overcame 6-some government shutdowns, Reagan overcame 8. I certainly hope they didn`t whine about the causes as much.

    Get this garbage out of here, it`s stupid. The real budget crisis will be here when the debt servicing cost isn`t 200 bil or so, but 1 trillion. Did you know that servicing the debt was the same in the 1980`s? With about 2 trillion? So why is servicing the same even though the debt isn`t 2 trillion, but 17 trillion? Artificially suppressing the interest rates. It`s why they`re paralyzed of ending QE. Once they can no longer suppress market forces, that`s the real crisis. GOP and Dems will never address this.
  2. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:18 pm
    False! All Obama and the Dems had to do was PASS A BUDGET! And they did not.

    They did try! All three got together, Reid (D) Obama (D) and Boehner (R) and came to a tentative agreemet...

    ... then Obama DEMANDED another 200 Billion in new taxes! Even Reid rejected that idea!

    So, again, WHO is responsible? O-Bama!
  3. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm
    This article isn`t about a budget crisis. It`s about the government shutdown. The budget crisis has been building for almost a CENTURY!

    And, I`m all for the government shutdown as a means to defund what I, and many, believe to be an unconstitutional bill.
  4. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 6:30 pm



    Not Anymore!



    Obama blames the Tea Party! By name! US Citizens who DARE exercise their Rights? Not allowed.
  5. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 7:43 pm

  6. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 9:45 pm
    @Squrlz4: "Giant Killer Robots"??

    THAT is your answer? Srsly? THAT is the best you got?

    Constitution? The past 17 shutdowns have OFTEN featured "add on laws" to them. It`s NOT illegal in any form!

    Facts > Your squirrelsh*t...
  7. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 7, 2013 at 10:08 pm
    Good for them. At least somebody`s doing something.
  8. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 2:55 am
    @5Cats

    "US Citizens who DARE exercise their Rights? Not allowed."

    It`s the right of US citizens to usurp the democratic process if they don`t like the results it brings?

    Goodie! I`ll go tell Homeland Security they can step down. Terrorism is a right now.

    -_-
  9. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 2:59 am
    @TruTenrMan

    "And, I`m all for the government shutdown as a means to defund what I, and many, believe to be an unconstitutional bill."

    I don`t think your constitution mentions anything regards healthcare.

    It`s remarkable what the constitution DOESN`T include. It doesn`t say anything about the hygiene standards for cabbage farming. Nor does it say a single word regards the establishment of an air traffic control network. And, shock horror, it turns out that transatlantic telecommunication cables are unconstitutional too: there`s no word of them in the constitution either!

    Christ on a trike, you`ve got a lot of work to do to dismantle your country and get it back to being fully 100% obedient to only the scant few words written on your constitution!
  10. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:43 am
    [quote">False! All Obama and the Dems had to do was PASS A BUDGET! And they did not. [/quote">
    To be fair, it`s kind of hard to pass a budget when you try to send it to a bicameral conference committee 19 times and the Tea Party blocks it every time.
  11. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:03 am
    @Patchgrabber - because it went like this:

    Reid, "Lets fund Obamacare 150%!! :D" Toomey, "No."

    Reid, "Lets fully fund Obamacare!!! ;D" Cruz, "Nope."

    Murray, "How about we fund Obamacare!!! :D" McConnell, "Nah."

    Warner, " I have a boner for Obamacare, lets hump it with money!! :D " McConnell, "Ew.. No."


    Shall I go on?
  12. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:05 am
    That is to say, democrat attempts have been less about working together, and more about persistently asking for the same thing, and then crying like a b|tch when republicans consistently disagree.

    It is akin to taking a child to the candy store to make a phone call, and having to constantly tell them to put things back because you can`t afford anything.
  13. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:21 am
    @elkingo

    What right do they have to refuse Obamacare now, after it has already successfully passed through all the hoops required to be passed into law?

    It`s a bit late for their attempts to negotiate. They had ample opportunity. Doing it now with this method, whilst holding the country hostage, is making an absolute mockery of the entire process that passed Obamacare.

    If you think that`s a good thing, go ahead and throw out your entire democracy and how your system of government works. Because this ransom is, in effect, an attempt to overturn it.
  14. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:25 am
    @elkingo

    "That is to say, democrat attempts have been less about working together, and more about persistently asking for the same thing, and then crying like a b|tch when republicans consistently disagree."

    But they ALREADY asked for it and GOT it. It passed through the house and senate and passed into law!

    They shouldn`t have to ask for it again. That`s the POINT! They already won! They shouldn`t HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!

    How do you not understand that the Tea Party do not have any right to demand negotiation on Obamacare now, any more than a mugger has any right do demand his victim negotiate for the return of his wallet!
  15. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7739 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:33 am
    wheels within wheels
  16. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:37 am
    Goodie! I`ll go tell Homeland Security they can step down. Terrorism is a right now.



    Pres. likes to use that word too think he needs a dictionary....
  17. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:40 am
    @Musuko42 - In America we have this thing we call the Constitution -- in it it gives Congress the right to decide which laws get funded.
  18. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:43 am
    Musuko: All funding for all programs can and is negotiated. The military was passed into law too, does it not deserve scrutiny, should it be funded above and beyond it`s expected cost?

    Your, "They shouldn`t have to ask for it again. That`s the POINT! They already won! They shouldn`t HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!", claim is infantile. If the military was funded the way you claim Obamacare should be, you`d be screaming your lungs out that it was too much money wasted.

    "..the Tea Party do not have any right to demand negotiation on Obamacare now.." All spending is negotiated, period. To claim that they "have no right to demand negotiation" is total bunk.
  19. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:43 am
    "They shouldn`t have to ask for it again. That`s the POINT! They already won! They shouldn`t HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!"

    They did not win the right to fund it with taxpayer dollars through the budget. You see, you can pass a law on anything, but enacting the law is something entirely different. In this case: funding. It was supposed to be self-sufficient according to Obama, so asking for billions of our tax dollars to fund it is a separate matter.
  20. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:56 am
    "They did not win the right to fund it with taxpayer dollars through the budget. You see, you can pass a law on anything, but enacting the law is something entirely different. In this case: funding."

    Yikes. Okay, I accept defeat and bow out.
  21. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 6:19 am
    because it went like this:
    Um...no. These were motions to send it to a committee to negotiate. Next time read the link.
  22. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 6:32 am
    It was supposed to be self-sufficient according to Obama, so asking for billions of our tax dollars to fund it is a separate matter.


    Billions? From what I see they want to raise the debt ceiling by another 1 trillion! Which is probably for other things too buuut ya gee god forbid people see a problem there. What happenes when they piss through that we keep doing the same? How about they get this debt down like the adults they get their money from would have to?
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 6:42 am
    McGovern: It`s worse than that, the CBO has stated that 10 years of Obamacare would cost over $2 trillion dollars and still leave 30 million people uninsured.

    So much for Obama`s claims of it solving the problem of the uninsured and saving money.
  24. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 9:34 am
    Crakr

    "the CBO has stated that 10 years of Obamacare would cost over $2 trillion dollars"

    HUH?

    "CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of $1,168"

    Oh, BTW, same CBO report....

    "On net, CBO and JCT estimate, repealing the ACA would increase federal budget deficits by $109 billion over the 2013 – 2022 period."

    "still leave 30 million people uninsured."

    Down from 55 Million Dumbass
  25. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 9:38 am
    Crakr

    Stop reading the weekly standard. They are lying to you. It is propaganda by billionaires who don`t want their taxes to go up. Wake up sheep. They are spouting DIRECT LIES and then you come in here and repeat them as fact which makes you look like a dumbass.

    The CBO report specifically, SPECIFICALLY, says that repealing obamacare will INCREASE BUDGET DEFICITS. Do you understand?

    BTW, since you already have your free governmnet healthcare, why don`t you shut the f.uck up and let people who have to figure out how to pay for their health insurance and have to pay taxes decide things?

    Does NOBODY ELSE find it hilarious that the 2 people most vocally opposed to healthcare reform and the government getting involved are two guys that live off of government provided healthcare?
  26. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 9:47 am
    Crakr

    "The Weekly Standard has never been profitable, and has remained in business through subsidies from wealthy conservative benefactors such as former owner Rupert Murdoch. Many of the magazine`s articles are written by members of conservative think tanks located in Washington, D.C"

    "Although the publication had, as of 2006, never been profitable and reputedly lost "more than a million dollars a year", News Corporation head Rupert Murdoch had previously dismissed the idea of selling it."

    Why does a poor, unemployed person take their marching orders from a magazine funded by billionaires and written by employees of think tanks funded by billionaires?

    Do you not get that their main and virtually SOLE concern is keeping taxes from going up no matter how much it might help other people like yourself?

    WAKE THE F.UCK UP. Follow the money. Look at who you take your brainwashing from.
  27. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:23 am
    @HolyGod

    "Does NOBODY ELSE find it hilarious that the 2 people most vocally opposed to healthcare reform and the government getting involved are two guys that live off of government provided healthcare?"

    Perhaps its from a sense of personal shame that they act out against it publicly. A case of the lady doth protest too much.

    Much the same way as the most vocal, violent homophobic preachers tend to get outed after a scandal with a rentboy; they can`t deal with something inside them, so they rage against it when they see it in others.
  28. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:37 am
    an absolute mockery of the entire process that passed Obamacare.

    Musuko42: LOLZ! You so funny bro!

    >>Negotiated in SECRET! (Obama promised it would be negotiated on live TV for all to watch)
    >>No Republican input allowed! (Obama said "We won" He`d promised full bi-partisan negotiations)
    >>No one even read the bill before voting! (Obama promised the PUBLIC could read it for at least a week before it was voted on)
    >>Even lots of Democrats didn`t like it, but were BRIBED to pass it.

    Shall I go on? There`s lots more.

    Because this ransom is, in effect, an attempt to overturn it.
    And the other 17 times this has happened? Did those "overturn democracy" in the USA?

    The THING that ObamaCare has become, a TAX, is not what was promised OR voted on...
  29. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 10:43 am
    @HolyGod: Obama`s policies have ADDED over 10 million uninsured since he took office, it was LOWER under Bush...

    And it will drive UP the cost for an average family, if they ever manage to get signed up that is...

    @Musuko42: Don`t encourage him! His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case.

    At least you were "man enough" to admit your mistake in the whole "funding belongs to the House" thing :-) Unlike SOME people around here...
  30. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:04 am
    5Cats

    "His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case."

    It isn`t a low blow to say you and crakr are on government provided healthcare. I want that for everyone. YOU GUYS think "government provided" is an insult, not me.

    "NOTHING" to support my case other than the links and data I gave you that directly and irrefutably support my case?
  31. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:14 am
    5Cats

    "Obama`s policies have ADDED over 10 million uninsured since he took office"

    See this is a stat. There shouldn`t be any wiggle room or debate right?

    According to the census bureau:

    In 2008 15.4% of Americans were uninsured, 46.3 million people

    In 2012 15.4% of Americans were uninsured, 48 million people

    Let`s see if you can do the math on that. Don`t let facts f.uck up your argument. Let`s see if you are "man enough to admit your mistake".
  32. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:20 am
    @5Cats

    "@Musuko42: Don`t encourage him! His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case. At least you were "man enough" to admit your mistake in the whole "funding belongs to the House" thing Unlike SOME people around here..."

    I appreciate the recognition.

    But HolyGod does have a good point, and it isn`t a low blow: that you and CrakrJak benefit from free (at the point of use) government healthcare provision, and speak so strongly against it, is a relevant point of discussion.

    Like pro-lifers who get abortions themselves, or anti-gay preachers who use rentboys. That`s how it comes across, and it`s a hypocrisy that could do with explaining.

    How do you reconcile your personal situation with your publicly-stated view?
  33. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:38 am
    I, for one, am a tax paying citizen.

    I protest the ACA because it will do two things to me:

    1. Harm coverage or raise cost to me personally.

    2. Lessen the quality of service I can provide my clients.

    If you would like for me to explain how it will lessen services I provide, I would be glad to in a simple story:

    Medicaid here was sent to managed care companies to "save money". They used that "saved money" to add several thousands more to the insurance. So now, the average case load is 45-55 instead of what it was three years ago: 28-32

    More people served simply equals less quality of services and less frequent services.
  34. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 11:42 am
    Also, because managed care pays less per service, 4 years ago I had joined with two other therapists and we had 86 children signed up for a summer program for their mental health needs.

    This year I struggled to keep 6 in attendance because my agency couldn`t afford support staff.

    Obamacare will simply be more of the same.

    There is an old saying that applies here: "If it sounds to good to be true... It probably is." Why risk children and people`s health just to give Obama a "signature" law?
  35. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 12:03 pm
    This plan gives the IRS more power do you really think giving the IRS more power is a wise choice shouldn`t we be doing the opposite there considering their track record?
  36. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    HG: Are you looking at this? CBO May 2013 Estimate of ACA and scroll down to page 2 "Gross Cost of Coverage Provisions" Total 2014-2023 - 1,798 Billion dollars. And that amount is rising due to Obama`s delay of the employer mandate.

    "Down from 55 Million"

    That`s still less than half the uninsured, that`s not what I would call successful.
  37. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 3:33 pm
    CrakrJak

    "That`s still less than half the uninsured, that`s not what I would call successful."

    IT ISN`T SUCCESSFULL.

    Find me ONE person that thinks obamacare is a home run. IT ISN`T. It is a base hit.

    It is SOMETHING. A first step. Better than nothing. Whatever you want to call it.

    Frankly I don`t care about CBO estimates 10 years from now because I can`t fathom something coming along to replace this, something better, before then.

    All the stuff you guys are complaining about now, like the mandate, are things democrats put in to compromise with republicans. Democrats don`t want THIS. They want single payer.

    FIRST STEP. SOMETHING.

    You legalize civil unions so you can legalize gay marriage.

    You legalize medical marijuana so you can legalize marijuana.

    It takes time to make major changes.
  38. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm
    HG: From your own link to 5Cats, "The rate of uninsured Americans dropped slightly for the second consecutive year in 2012, from 15.7 percent to 15.4 percent, largely a result of more people enrolling in Medicare and Medicaid."

    So yeah, it`s not dropping because of Obamacare, it`s dropping because people are joining the Medicare and Medicaid rolls via claiming disability. I wouldn`t call that good news either.
  39. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    HG: "Democrats don`t want THIS. They want single payer."

    Which would be an even bigger disaster.

    A good "First step" would be tort reform, followed by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines.

    Right now all Obamacare is doing is cutting employees down to 29hrs. and making employers cut jobs down below 50.
  40. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 3:49 pm
  41. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:05 pm
    @HolyGod: DOWN FROM 55 DUMBASS Your OWN LINK, which you made, says 55 million.
    Now you`re saying 45? And calling me names for thinking it is 55? When YOU SAID it was 55...
    ...typical!

    Apology expected.

    @Musuko42: Are you suggesting that:
    #1 Those who disagree with the government are NOT allowed to utilize ANYTHING from it?
    #2 That receiving something from the gov`t CANCELS YOUR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION?

    I paid into "the system" and now I`m getting help from it. Where`s the hypocrisy? I`m saying the ObamaCare is NOT going to help, it is going to HARM.

    The 29 hour work week is reality in the USA now, thanks to Obama! Good luck y`all!

  42. Profile photo of Nerd_Rage
    Nerd_Rage Male 18-29
    425 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm
    Let this serve as a response to all of those who support the Affordable Care Act. It is really quite simple-- Observe:

    Capitalism = competition to provide services or materials for capital gain, It is a free market system, Meaning that those who are the best, or provide the best will be the most successful; obviously others will think of new ways to beat the best, then they will become the best, this ensures both competition and competency in service.

    The affordable health care act would mandate the purchasing of health care, Thereby forcing demand onto a free market system.

    Therefore, it`s not only a fascist way to accomplish what charity already can, but is also going to fail. If there is no competition , there is no competency or even a will to excel, being that everyone is obligated to buy you, you will be more corrupt than ever possible before. Because you have no obligation to change.
    My argument is not of fact, but ideals. Let`s not digress on sim
  43. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:31 pm
    Crakr

    "Which would be an even bigger disaster."

    WHY?

    It is what you are on. It is what 5Cats is on. It is what our grandparents are on. What is wrong with medicare for all? Why is that such a dirty idea to you guys?
  44. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    Crakr

    "So yeah, it`s not dropping because of Obamacare"

    HOW THE F.UCK COULD IT?

    Obamacare hasn`t started yet.
  45. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:38 pm
    NerdRage

    "If there is no competition , there is no competency or even a will to excel, being that everyone is obligated to buy you, you will be more corrupt than ever possible before."

    Everyone is required to buy health insurance NOT A SPECIFIC BRAND. All the insurance companies now get to fight for customers and there is transparency about prices. That is GOOD for competition and the consumer.

    Everyone is required to buy car insurance as well, does that mean there isn`t competition among car insurance companies? I think it is one of the most competitive markets out there.

    What the good f.uck are you talking about?
  46. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm
    5Cats

    "Now you`re saying 45? And calling me names for thinking it is 55? When YOU SAID it was 55...
    ...typical!"

    You are comparing apples to oranges. The CBO estimate includes undocumented aliens. The census bureau number counted only citizens. I don`t have the CBO number from 2008, but as the rate of uninsured is unchanged according to the census bureau it is pretty easy to extrapolate the change is similar to that of the census bureau findings.

    I forgive your error if you misinterpreted the data and based it on those numbers, but by any account, your statement that "Obama`s policies have ADDED over 10 million uninsured since he took office" is GROSSLY inaccurate agreed?

    When did I call you names in the last exchange?
  47. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:35 pm
    Everyone is required to buy health insurance NOT A SPECIFIC BRAND. All the insurance companies now get to fight for customers and there is transparency about prices. That is GOOD for competition and the consumer.

    Sounds good, except that options for your plan are heavily constrained with "essential benefits", without letting the consumer decide what`s "essential" to themself. Maternity care is required, even if you don`t expect to be pregnant for the rest of your life. Prescription drugs are covered, even you don`t reasonably foresee you`ll need them in the future (plus it`s an expense you`re actually supposed to pay out of pocket like a subscription).
  48. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 5:40 pm
    Above all else competition requires that consumers be able to say `no`, without legal consequences, even to their own detriment. By definition the individual and employer mandates undermine this.
  49. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    Cajun247

    Nobody is perfectly happy with a compromise. That is what this is. However it is SOMETHING. The first SOMETHING we have ever had.

    I don`t need obamacare.

    You don`t need obamacare.

    However somewhere there is a 26 yr old with early onset parkinsons that is thanking jehovah, xenu, and anyone else who will listen that this law has come.

    This will help a lot of people more than it will hurt some people. Is it the best solution for everyone? No. There is no BEST SOLUTION FOR EVERYONE. If that existed it would have happened by now.

    I like that there will be an exchange where insurance rates are upfront and available for comparison.

    I like the death of "pre-existing conditions".

    I like the government putting some restrictions on how bad insurance companies can f.uck people.

    I like a 20% cap on insurance company operating share.

    I like that SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED.
  50. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    October 8, 2013 at 9:11 pm
    "Maternity care is required, even if you don`t expect to be pregnant for the rest of your life."

    Well, then, buy your own damn individual policy not via the exchanges like I did. People against this are so totally uniformed it`s not funny. I`ve had my own health insurance policy for over 10 years and I can keep it if I want to. When the traffic to the site dies down, I`ll check out the exchanges, compare them to what I have now and decide what to do. Is it REALLY SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND???????????????????????????
  51. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:11 am
    @5Cats

    What I`m saying is that you seem to be fine with yourself paying into the system and then using it, but unhappy to allow others to do so. Please correct me if that`s not the case, but that`s the impression I`ve built from witnessing your arguments.

    You also seem to be fundamentally against the notion of universal healthcare (again, an impression built), whilst happy to be part of it. That`s like being pro-life and having an abortion yourself.

    Tell me why you use your universal healthcare when you are not being forced to do so. Why do you not refuse its benefits as a protest?

    Sticking your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
  52. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 5:56 am

    Everyone is required to buy health insurance NOT A SPECIFIC BRAND. All the insurance companies now get to fight for customers and there is transparency about prices. That is GOOD for competition and the consumer.

    Oligopoly: An oligopoly is a market form in which a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists). Oligopolies can result from various forms of collusion which reduce competition and lead to higher costs for consumers.

    And insurance companies have been so honest and caring for their customers in the past haven`t they.......
  53. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:22 am
    When did I call you names in the last exchange?
    You cussed at me... highly similar.
    So one minute you say 55, the next it`s 45? And are you counting the millions who`ve switched from one Gov`t program to another? Nope!

    ...but unhappy to allow others to do so.
    @Musuko42: Noooo, I`m unhappy that the USA is trying to enforce a suicidally stupid program which will HARM millions of people!
    Why?
    Because chances are high that Canada will follow suit, ruining our already "poor" healthcare system!
    Yes: we get covered for catastrophic care, that`s good!
    But: We still need to buy insurance! We don`t get covered for essential medical care!

    ObamaCare takes a bad system and makes it worse. BY FORCE!

    Again I repeat myself: Universal Free Healthcare is neither `universal` nor `free` in Canada. Some nations have both, that`s true! But they still PAY for it through taxes...
  54. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:34 am
    @5Cats

    "Again I repeat myself: Universal Free Healthcare is neither `universal` nor `free` in Canada. Some nations have both, that`s true! But they still PAY for it through taxes..."

    Can some other Canadians confirm that for me? I`d always been under the impression that the healthcare there is similar in structure to ours (British NHS).

    Btw, I`m well-aware it`s not free. That`s why it`s typically referred to as "free at the point of use". You still pay for it, but through your taxes when you`re able to pay for it, rather than when you actually need it (and are least likely to be able to pay for it).

    Please stop calling it "free" healthcare, because that`s not what it is.
  55. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:35 am
    @5Cats

    You didn`t answer my question, so I`ll expand it a little: do you support the concept of universal free at the point of use healthcare, along the lines of the British system?
  56. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:48 pm
    It`s "similar" yes. Not quite as "all encompassing" I think. There are a lot more excluded things in Canada, I think.

    But your system is falling to pieces! "Preventable Deaths" in hospitals 10X the rate of the USA? ZOMG!

    And the "Euro-Zone" doesn`t help either eh? When people from all over Europe come to Britain for expensive treatments? Who foots the bills for that?
    (I saw it on PBS...)

    "Universal Healthcare" is BLOODY expensive! It`s one OR the other: "open to all" OR "affordable".

    I like Japan`s system! But it depends on low pay for most doctors...

    Anyhow? The #1 Way To Fix US Healthcare?

    Tort Reform. Period.
  57. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 1:20 am
    @5Cats

    "But your system is falling to pieces! "Preventable Deaths" in hospitals 10X the rate of the USA? ZOMG!"

    Can you supply a source for that, please, because that`s a very bold statement.

    Also, do you have the raw numbers? Ten times a tiny number is still a tiny number. Ten times a large number is greater cause for concern. Saying something is ten times worse than something else is meaningless without knowing the numbers.

    For example, if your chance of a preventable death is 1 in 10 million in the US, and 1 in 1 million here, it`s not really a threat to lose too much sleep over.

    ""Universal Healthcare" is BLOODY expensive! It`s one OR the other: "open to all" OR "affordable"."

    How can you say our universal healthcare system is expensive when we pay a lot less per head than America does in their system? Our system is proven cheaper than their approach.
  58. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 1:21 am
    @5Cats.

    PS: You STILL didn`t actually answer my question: yes or no, do you support the idea of universal healthcare?
  59. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 1:15 pm
    @Musuko42: I grow weary of constantly looking up EASY TO FIND things for my nay-sayers.

    10X the RATE is ghod-awful! There`s no other way of looking at it. It might be 20X, I forget, but it`s absolutely outrageous. "Small numbers" that is "cold comfort" to those who die in British Hospitals...

    I support ACTUAL Universal Healthcare. It doesn`t exist anywhere, but some nations come close!

    ObamaCare is the OPPOSITE! It is already making things MUCH worse, and it hasn`t even started yet!!!
  60. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4853 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm
    "Does NOBODY ELSE find it hilarious that the 2 people most vocally opposed to healthcare reform and the government getting involved are two guys that live off of government provided healthcare?"

    Understand that I`m just about completely the opposite, politically speaking at least, of the "two guys" referred to, here. The comment, however, is really kind of unfair. The fact that someone is in a position where he requires government assistance doesn`t mean he can`t view a government assistance law critically and find it lacking or even completely inappropriate.
    Personally, I`m not fond of the idea of government involvement in healthcare since it seems to be REALLY BAD at that kind of thing. Insurance companies really suck at it badly enough already, without adding government input. Again, I don`t agree with their political view of the law but I certainly feel they have the right to voice their opinions regardless of their need for similar support.
  61. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32805 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 7:33 pm
    VV Thanks @broizfam! We`ve been TRYING to talk some sense into certain people about how RUDE that is, perhaps he, (er they?) will listen to a `neutral voice`?

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