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Date: 10/09/13 09:27 AM

51 Responses to Bill Moyers Essay: On the Sabotage of Democracy

  1. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:27 am
    Link: Bill Moyers Essay: On the Sabotage of Democracy - “When the President refused to buckle to this extortion, they threw their tantrum,” Bill says
  2. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:52 am
    This IS Democracy "working" dumb people voted these people in, this is what it results in.

    They`re fighting it because they can do it, and it`s something that they believe in fighting for.

    The Republican controlled House also sent 3 bills to the Senate, 1 defunding Obamacare, 1 delaying Obamacare 1 year, and 1 delaying the forced participation. The Harry Reid refused to let the Senate vote on them.

    They`re all non-nice individuals.
  3. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 10:33 am
    Ugh, 7 minutes of LIBTARD DRECK? How much can I stand?

    Less than 20 seconds, apparently.

    Sorry @CreamK: Moyers is a 100% leftist, liberal hack who lost his job because he`s SO FAR out in `left field` even PBS couldn`t stomach him...

    @Keyh is correct! It`s the Democrat Senate who are holding up over 12 Bills by refusing to even VOTE on them! Because many will pass! With Democrats supporting them! And Obama will have to VETO and look like a Despot! (Which he wishes he was, btw...)
  4. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 10:36 am
    He`s 20 seconds in, has already blamed ONLY one side and said something UNBELIEVABLY stupid? Multiply that by 21 and it equals NTY!

    The "opening statement" of any movie, song, speech, novel, any form of communication is CRITICALLY important! And Moyers BLEW IT...
  5. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 10:43 am
    I thought we were up to 26 bills to fully fund the government now waiting on Harry Reid`s desk for the Senate to vote on them?

    Who is throwing a temper tantrum, closing the oceans, escorting seniors out of Yellowstone Park and preventing veterans from visiting public Washington monuments or their families from collecting death benefits? Who is acting like a spoiled brat child again?
  6. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 10:58 am
    Didn`t listen to a word of this but happened to catch a glimpse of Michelle Malkin by chance MEEEOOOWW!! Where`s she been my whole life cougar alert!!
  7. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 10:59 am
    @5cats:
    You`re part of the problem. You`re brain is so brainwashed that if anything disagrees with you, instead of you looking into it or looking into the possibility that you might be wrong, you immediately pull an OldOllie and say it must be liberal.

    Someone ran over your cat, it`s a liberal.
    Someone slashed your tires? It`s a liberal.
    It`s raining today and you wanted to play outside? It`s a liberal.

    You`re not even in the US, so go enjoy fellating Stephen Harper.

    @AvatarJohn:
    Nope. It starts with congress first, then moves to the Senate. If Congress does nothing, the Senate gets nothing. They are working right now for a way to vote in the house without the speaker`s consent, though. As, they should.
  8. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 11:30 am
    You couldn`t pay me to listen to Bill Moyers` lies. The man is as devoid of truth as Obama is.
  9. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    Harper makes me want to puke my guts out. I`d rather have the lemon party in power.
  10. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm
    @ McGovern: LOL. Yeah, Malkin`s a major hottie. Alas she is my ideological opposite and I cannot bear her work. But she is undeniably easy on the eyes.
  11. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 12:39 pm
    "Moyers is a 100% leftist, liberal hack who lost his job because he`s SO FAR out in `left field` even PBS couldn`t stomach him..."

    The same can be said about you (minus the PBS part) as a 100% right-wing conservative f*cking nut-job. What`s your point?
  12. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:02 pm

  13. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:09 pm
    @mesovortex: HEY! At least I commented SPECIFCALLY on the content of the video! UN-like The IAB Liberal Brigade.

    Nope. It starts with congress first, then moves to the Senate. If Congress does nothing, the Senate gets nothing...
    Speaking of BLIND IGNORENCE? You obviously have no clue, but feel free to lecture others?

    There are a MINIMUM of 14 Funding Bills ALREADY PASSED by the House! The Democrat Senate under Reid REFUSES to vote on ANY of them.
    Why?
    GO ASK REID! GO ASK OBAMA!
    To blindly claim that the House isn`t doing it`s job? It`s a lie.
    Do any of thos Bills deal with ObamaCare? NO! So WHY won`t the Senate pass even one of them? Hummmm?

    Because the Democrats deliberately wish to make the shutdown as painful as possible for American Citizens. THAT is why.
  14. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    Yeah, Malkin`s a major hottie. Alas she is my ideological opposite and I cannot bear her work.

    @Squrlz4: Yeah, I feel that way about Janeane Garofalo too! Pretty, fine actor, dumb as a box of hammers...

    @WhoDat: I`m just following the fine example set by the IAB Liberal Brigade!
    If it`s good for the goose?
    Oh, I can expect YOU to stand up for right wingers next time someone slights them? :-)

    Back to @Squrlz4: So Obama, Reid and Pelosi have NO PART in the shutdown?
    Interesting...

  15. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    @ 5Cats:

    NO! So WHY won`t the Senate pass even one of them? Hummmm?
    Because allowing the Republicans to pick and choose which parts of the government are kept operating and which aren`t would be a RIDICULOUS precedent to set.

    I actually started to explain this further but deleted the original paragraph because I`ve never been able to get you to see another viewpoint differing from your original one, so I can`t see the point. Not meant to be an insult, just a statement of fact.
  16. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:21 pm
    @ 5Cats:

    So Obama, Reid and Pelosi have NO PART in the shutdown?
    I honestly have no idea to what you`re referring. I`ve never said anything about Reid or Pelosi. Did you mean to address that question to someone else?
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    Because allowing the Republicans to pick and choose which parts of the government are kept operating and which aren`t would be a RIDICULOUS precedent to set.

    Um, @Squrlz4?
    #1 It`s the LAW. That`s what IS ALLOWED by law. Weren`t you one of the "ObamaCare is LAW so obey it!" folks? Anyhow, it`s perfectly legitimate.

    #2 The PAST 17 times featured many similar funding Bills. AND the Dems used them (`continuances` iirc) under Obama when the Debt Ceiling was reached before, too!

    Precedent? It`s set in stone buddy!

    You cannot explain the unexplainable...
    "allow"?
    "precedent"?
    Well, you got "ridiculous" correct, but in the wrong way...
  18. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:25 pm
    VV It refers to that cartoon you`ve put up.

    That`s supposed to be John Boehner, correct? HE is the HEART of the problem???

    A politician LEAGALLY DOING HIS JOB and following through with his promises is "a problem"?
  19. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:28 pm
    @ 5Cats: No, it isn`t Boehner. (If it was, he`d probably be orange.) It`s one of the Tea Party Republicans elected into the House via a gerrymandered district. That`s the whole point of the cartoon: The majority of the Republican party has been sent on a fool`s errand by the Tea Party extremists in their midst.
  20. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 1:29 pm
    "Oh, I can expect YOU to stand up for right wingers next time someone slights them?"

    You know for a fact that I don`t support right-wing or left-wing. I decide what my personal stance on issues are on a case-by-case basis.

    Examples:

    I am against certain aspects of gun control legislation which is primarily a right-wing stance.

    I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion which is primarily a left-wing stance.

    That`s the whole f*cking problem with people like you and those on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. History tells us that extremists (far-right or far-left) are the ones we should be worried about because it`s either their way or no way. People like you are exactly what`s wrong with not only the USA, but the whole world.
  21. Profile photo of Twinklestein
    Twinklestein Male 30-39
    513 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    All of this once again proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that this artificially enforced two-party system of career politicians is BEYOND broken.
  22. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 2:43 pm
    Lol, now i know why the first part of my submits didn`t get accepted, this is pretty tame comparing.. But this sums pretty much how this debacle have been received outside US, one party losing power and throwing a temper tantrum.
  23. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 3:03 pm
    Twinklestein hit the spot, else where in the world we do know that this grand theater for most part is both parties fault. And we also know that one or two party system does not work, you need at least three major parties or above), One dictates, two divides and three shares the power.

    Taking care of business, also called politics, means that as society changes, managing the society needs different ideas and solutions. Variety brings out competition, right? Monopoly, duopoly and their cousin, oligarchy brings only troubles, you hardcore capitalists should know this.

    Diversity in politics also means a lot of compromises. Universal health care is not a question of "if" but "when" and then it is "how". The right wing is naturally opposed to it, like it did in very vocal fashion in Europe decades ago and is still keeping things in line so things don`t get so bloated.. Like it should be.

    Political system should be 2 against 1 or 3 a
  24. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm
    I know that O-Care is not the same as universal health care but it`s definitely an attempt to the correct direction. We live longer than ever, we are effing great as a species.

    A huge part of what brought us here is because we are uniquely altruistic survivals. It just baffles me that somebody would look at a hurting person and while most of us can`t or wont help them personally, that individual would go so far than he actively seeks ways of preventing their healing. Isn`t that basically the same as causing the harm in the first place? Or at least partly responsible.
  25. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    (IABs so called 1000 letters limit cut me off ~960..)

    *Political system should be 2 against 1 or 3 against 2, not 1 vs 1 until submission or knockout.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 5:20 pm
  27. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    via a gerrymandered district.
    @Squrlz4: You DO understand that it`s almost impossible to gerrymander one district YOUR way without making a different one THE OTHER way, right? Both sides do it for a reason: they BOTH benefit.
    So a "generic House Republican " is MORE to blame than the PotUS or the Senate Leader? Oooo-K!

    The majority of the Republican party has been sent on a fool`s errand...
    #1 I thought it was only 30 "renegade GOP" Congressmen? Now it`s the "majority"?
    #2 GHOD FORBID that a politician should LISTEN to his voters OR keep his promises!

    Heck! Where would OBAMA be if he did something STUPID like that?

    @WhoDat: I`m just noticing your silence when "righties" like Limbaugh, Bush or Beck or even Michelle Malkin get savagely slandered on IAB...
  28. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm
    @CreamK: The `Char Count` is not accurate :-) as you noticed already. After 850 or so? It just might cut off.

    Multi Party Systems like in Italy or Israel? Where governments are made of groups of minority parties? And "radical" parties could hold the balance of power with just a few seats?

    Canada has 5 "Major" parties; we don`t do any better than the USA when it comes to bickering...

    O-Care is an "attempt" to fix... what? It`s driving UP prices and REDUCING coverage!

    800,000 In New Jersey Just Lost Their Coverage

    Why? Obama!
    "You like your policy? You can keep it... IF WE DON`T FORCE THE COMPANIES TO CANCEL IT! Then of course y`all are screwed..."
  29. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 5:53 pm
    @5Cats

    At least your legislature isn`t in a hurry to get `something` done. That`s one thing you should be proud of.
  30. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    @ 5Cats: Honestly? It`s not even worth responding to you. You misunderstand what`s stated, come back arguing nonsense points based on that misunderstanding--and to top it off, either deliberately misrepresent articles you link to or (here`s that word again) misunderstand their content.

    I could point out specifically what I`m talking about, but I can`t even be bothered anymore. I guess I`m making progress. Soon I won`t even bother to *begin* a response such as this.
  31. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 6:34 pm
    "You DO understand that it`s almost impossible to gerrymander one district YOUR way without making a different one THE OTHER way, right?"

    This is uninformed and largely incorrect. I recommend you watch this video to learn how you can gerrymander a super majority while only creating one district for the opposing side. It`s not a one-for-one proposition as you claim it to be.

    "GHOD FORBID that a politician should LISTEN to his voters OR keep his promises! "

    Latest Gallop poll has the GOP at a record low in popularity. Doesn`t seem like the voters agree as much as you claim.
  32. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 6:35 pm
    we don`t do any better than the USA when it comes to bickering...
    I contend that we are, but that`s subjective. At least when our government can`t pass a budget we kick them out and tell them to start over.
  33. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2314 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 7:27 pm
    The gov can and should only be judged by their previous efforts. Look at the education system. Never has so much been spent on so many who are undeserving/disinterested. If they can`t make government mandates work with children how could it work with adults?
    My semi-retired father`s supplemental medical insurance just went up 30%. He works part time to help offset expenses like this and now he`s going to have to work even more just to maintain his current standard level of insurance. Of course that`s in addition to his rising property taxes and business taxes and every other tax he pays. All I can tell is that we are all getting less for more. Typical government.
  34. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm
    @onoffonoffon-

    Yup, I`m being directed to hire more part timers and temps for my department...

    Guess I`m a "conservative-loon" (even though I`m pro gay marriage, weed legalization, and about as non-religious as you can get).
  35. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 9, 2013 at 9:33 pm
    @Squrlz4: You just looked at the `headline` and not the article, didn`t you! It clearly states that 800,000 people in New Jersey will, as of 2014, NOT be able to keep their CURRENT policies. They HAVE TO change to... cheaper ones? HECK NO! LMAO! It`s going to cost them tons.

    @patchy: I watched a docco on the "Long Term Effects" of gerrymandering in the USA.
    #1 Both sides do it in almost every State, on various levels at various times.
    #2 Sure it makes "a fortress" and causes 3 or 4 "swing districts" which nullifies the opposition`s vote <in the short term>
    #3 But over time those areas change! And the vote "swings" one way or the other, making them "fortresses" for either side, no matter who drew the lines in the first place!

    So it would take constant work by ONE side <only> to "fix the vote" as @Squrlz4 suggests, but that NOT reality.
  36. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 12:18 am
    Bill Moyers is a f***ing commie.
  37. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 3:08 am
    @5Cats

    If the Republicans are within their rights to refuse the budget, as it`s the law, then surely the Democrats are equally within his rights to refuse to negotiate with them, as that`s not against the law either?

    Unless you can point out what law they`re breaking?
  38. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 4:01 am
    @5cats: It would help me understand your point better if you could point to the actual doc.
  39. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:18 am
    Guess I`m a "conservative-loon" (even though I`m pro gay marriage, weed legalization, and about as non-religious as you can get).

    AGREE WITH US OR YOUR A TEA PARTY MEMBER AND A TERRORIST.... ya that`s really winning me over too...


    Now less BLAH BLAH BLAH DISS IS YOUR FAULTZZ NO DISS IS YOUR FAULTZZ!!! And more Michelle Malkin!!



    Oh my my my my....
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:22 am
    @Musuko42: I`ve never said they weren`t! In fact (on another thread) I specifically said the Senate is perfectly legal in holding up Bills. Obama has every right to "not negotiate" BUT I refuse to swallow the MSM Kool-Ade that it`s 100% Republican`s and Tea Party And Everyone BUT Obama to blame!
    That`s just a lie.

    @patchy: Sorry, that documentary was on PBS a few years back... Frontline? It was one of those shows.
  41. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 8:28 am
    in Europe decades ago and is still keeping things in line so things don`t get so bloated.. Like it should be.

    Does anyone else see the irony of a person that lives in a place that makes people pay a tax to a royal family preaching how efficient everything is over there......

    We live longer than ever, we are effing great as a species.

    SO now you`re a different species...that`s beter.... isn`t that the attitude that started 2 world wars?
  42. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    CreamK was clearly talking about healthcare not `everything` and I dont see how paying tax wether to a government or a royal family (dont know in which country that happens Europe has several countries though) is any sort of guide to efficiency.
  43. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 10, 2013 at 5:16 pm
    @McDuff73

    I wouldn`t consider a government that taxes people to give a family that`s already set for life and had everything they want handed to them by the government and then have the government make excuses for their uselessness not bloated. There`s a few countries there that do this not all but our primary audience here is from one of those.....
  44. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 2:40 am
    "Land of the Free"

    haaaaaahhhahaahhahahaha

    In China, Russia and North Korea, they at least have a functioning government. Amuricans are so funny.
  45. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 5:24 am
    McGovern: Not all EU countries have a monarchy, i come from Finland and we have never had a king during independence. In countries that have monarchy, they royal family has pretty reasonable allowances, not even 1% from the GDP. And they have no real power either, check your history before you speak..

    By saying "we are great as a species, i included every single humanbeing on the planet".

    Not everything is efficient, European healthcare is far from perfect but it sure beats the murican version.

    The right wing is there to server it`s purpose just like left wing, the center, green parties etc. You can`t get such diversity from two parties. The rest is same, they don`t always get along, they end up in dead ends etc.. But we can and will throw them out and get a bunch of people in their place. When has USA dissolved congress due to inability to fix things? Is it even possible?
  46. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:02 am

    In China, Russia and North Korea, they at least have a functioning government. Amuricans are so funny.

    This tard thinks every things shut down..... Why yes Drac I hear Camp 21 is lovely in the fall you should take a trip there!
  47. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:12 am
    McGovern: Not all EU countries have a monarchy,

    Umm pretty sure I said that.

    they royal family has pretty reasonable allowances, not even 1% from the GDP. And they have no real power either, check your history before you speak..

    Well lets see didn`t the queen of the UK recently give herself a raise and who`s the little twit that flies an Apache again? I`m sure he`s qualified... yep no power there.....

    You can`t get such diversity from two parties

    You seem to think there isn`t more than two parties here there is but they don`t get "campaign funding" from major corps so they don`t get far in elections.
  48. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 6:19 am
    When has USA dissolved congress due to inability to fix things? Is it even possible?

    Probably but they get elected every two years and knowing the speed of politicians it`s take about that long.... why stop there though it`s more than just their ineptitude at work?
  49. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 3:07 pm
    @Dracukya: you call NORTH Korea`s government "functioning"? WTF?

    The US Gov`t is still functioning dude! It`s at 83% capacity and STILL 10X better than China OR Russia...
    And North Korea? ZOMG! ROTFL!

    When has USA dissolved congress due to inability to fix things?
    Good question @CreamK! It has never dissolved, except for the Civil War. I don`t think it`s possible, but could be wrong.

    If ALL the Congress Critters and Senate Members were to resign and NONE run for office in 2014? THAT would be interesting! They could run again in 2016 if they liked... :-)

    The House should be split like the Senate is and have 4 year terms with HALF standing for elections every 2 years. That way they`re not "campaigning" constantly, eh?
  50. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 8:06 pm
    5C "you call NORTH Korea`s government `functioning`? WTF?"

    You have a point. lol
  51. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    October 11, 2013 at 10:48 pm
    :-) @Draculya

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