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Category: Weird
Date: 09/10/13 04:03 PM

84 Responses to Under God [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    Link: Under God - Thanks Obama....
  2. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 4:14 pm
    Time to move past the 2000 year old fairy tales and become part of the new millennium.
  3. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 4:16 pm
    Okay, see, that one made me laugh out loud. Literally. And not the "new" literally, but, like, in actuality, I laughed out loud. It`s important to rewrite the Bible every so often to keep up with how its interpreted. Just like the dictionary. Literally. :-)
  4. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7751 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    Ergo, all violence is perpetrated by religious nuts.
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36860 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    I figuratively laughed out loud.
  6. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 4:42 pm
    patchouly

    "Time to move past the 2000 year old fairy tales"

    Even older than that. Parts of the old testament predate the birth of Jesus by a couple thousand years. Not to mention that several stories and themes are direct regurgitations of the creation myths of religions before them that predate even the old testament by thousands of years.
  7. Profile photo of LandoGriffin
    LandoGriffin Male 30-39
    3844 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 5:14 pm
    I said I didn`t believe in God and this kid named Grant punched me in the face. So I said I believe in God and this kid named Chenzhou karate kicked me in the face because I don`t believe in Buddha. So I said I believe in God and also in Buddha, and this kid named Mahmoud blew up my car because I don`t believe in the prophet Muhammad. So when I met this kid named Chandra I was a bit worried, since I don`t believe in Vishnu or Shiva, but he was actually pretty cool with it. I`m not Hindu but I have to say, Hindus are the nicest people around, even more so than my own people.
  8. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1062 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 6:17 pm
    I took a mythology class. Had to read the Mahabharata. Hindus are pretty bro.
  9. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36860 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Everyone gripes that religions are so intolerant, but the minute Yahweh is mentioned look how quickly us happy atheists jump all over it. Way to be tolerant guys.

    Not me, I`m totally intolerant of that stuff... just sayin`
  10. Profile photo of Nageki
    Nageki Male 30-39
    110 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 7:36 pm
    Under god was also not originally in the pledge, so him leaving it out is actually just him reverting to an older pledge...
  11. Profile photo of McThstlpnts
    McThstlpnts Female 18-29
    1540 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 7:36 pm
    Ok...I laughed.
  12. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 7:41 pm
    It was funny, loved the "Biblical Reference", it was really funny.

    Not at all representative of the Christian Faith, but funny.
  13. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 7:42 pm
    Okay, the guy`s a dick, but at least he didn`t behead him.
  14. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 8:13 pm
    JamesDitoyer

    "Not at all representative of the Christian Faith, but funny."

    Which christian faith? The one that ignores the old testament and lives by the new, or the one that cherry picks the old testament to their heart`s content and ignores the new unless people are watching?

    I tend to find that the vast majority of christians I meet fall into category 2.
  15. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 8:16 pm
    What would this slimeball do if a girl told him she didn`t believe in God? Sexually assault her in the name of Jesus?
  16. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm
    @HaileyGid

    Being a Christian Fundamentalist myself (begin the flame war!), I feel that one cannot look at only one Testament or the other.

    There are those who seek to pervert the faith, and they are warned about many times in both Testaments. Those who use it as justification for unjust actions. Those who would sit in judgement of others, and declare that Heaven is not for them.

    But that misses the point entirely. We are all guilty of sin, we are all deserving of Hell. None of us are worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven.

    But we are all forgiven. This is the teaching of the Christian Faith. Those who forget this are not following the teachings, but they are forgiven too. Those who willy lead others astray, and preach hatred, are acting as agents of the enemy. But they, too, are forgiven.
  17. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm
    jadesditoyr

    "Those who use it as justification for unjust actions."

    OK. So Deuteronomy 22, let`s say:

    If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die.

    So in your opinion that is the word of god right? So we should follow it? I`m confused how this works. How do YOU pick which parts of the bible to follow and which ones not to?
  18. Profile photo of razbitom
    razbitom Male 40-49
    913 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm
    but "under god" wasn`t IN the pledge of allegiance. it was a later addition and never should have been.
  19. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36860 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Did you know the Bible says it`s an abomination to watch Adam Sandler films?
    Really, look it up, it`s in there.
  20. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33134 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    the Bible says it`s an abomination to watch Adam Sandler films?

    @Gerry1: Ok, that one is true! It puzzled Biblical Scholars for centuries, but now is seen as a foreshadowing of the 4 horsemen...

    @HolyGod: The difference between "Old and New" laws has been hashed over many times already: Christians obey Jesus`s teachings, NOT the laws of the OT. Should be obvious...
  21. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 10:12 pm
    Early Christians were Jewish, but new converts were not expected to be circumcised or to accept the extra burdens of Hebrew Culture.

    The Law of the issue is clear, and that they are both guilty of Adultery. The Punishment, Christ took upon himself, and He has paid the price for the sin.

    Without the crucifixion of Christ, that punishment for adultery would still be required. But that is not the case. Christ stood in their place, and accepted punishment for them. The Law is fulfilled.

    I don`t see how that is hard to follow.
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 11:56 pm
    JadesDitoyr

    "I don`t see how that is hard to follow."

    God made laws. Then he decided that he didn`t want the laws to be in effect anymore. So instead of simply changing the laws he came up with an elaborate plan to impregnate a woman with his child for the sole purpose of the child growing up to be brutally tortured and murdered as a figurative stand-in for all of us. That way the law could change. People in the 21st century actually believe that.

    You DON`T see how that is hard to follow?
  23. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3882 posts
    September 10, 2013 at 11:57 pm
    and that idiot who punched the other kid for being an atheist is the future of this world. makes me glad i`m an old broad, and `one day closer to death`.
  24. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 12:04 am
    slut_etta

    "that idiot who punched the other kid for being an atheist is the future of this world."

    You think religious people are the future of the world?

    Each generation is less and less religious. My kids` kids` generation is going to view religious people like we view scientologists now, the few crazy people over in the corner.

    The internet is the worst thing to ever happen to religion. The uninhibited spreading of knowledge and expression is the anti-religion.
  25. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2382 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 12:18 am
    Each generation is becoming more and more socialist, not just atheist.
  26. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 1:05 am
    It`s getting harder to tell the insane from the religious. We should start taxing churches and the property they sit on. Watch the world change (For the better) when they do.
  27. Profile photo of Tovarishch
    Tovarishch Male 18-29
    72 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:32 am
    Does anyone else find it amusing that HolyGod is taking an anti-religious stance. It makes me chuckle.
  28. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:41 am
    And Stop Whining!


  29. Profile photo of nayrbarr
    nayrbarr Male 18-29
    366 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 3:24 am
    @Tovarishch I believe that his name is a joke, and a blasphemous one at that, so it`s not really surprising that he isn`t actually religious.
  30. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 3:31 am
    "Does anyone else find it amusing that HolyGod is taking an anti-religious stance. It makes me chuckle."

    At least HolyGod exists. God does not.
  31. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 6:51 am
    Tovarishch

    "Does anyone else find it amusing that HolyGod is taking an anti-religious stance. It makes me chuckle."

    If there is a god I guarantee it thinks our human religions are sad, stupid, and pathetic.

    How could it not? An omnipotent all powerful creator and we show it how much we love it by dunking people in pools, cutting off parts of a penises, or making women wear head to toe body bags?

    If god exists it thinks we are f.ucking retarded.
  32. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:17 am
    @HolyGod

    "God made laws. Then he decided that he didn`t want the laws to be in effect anymore. So instead of simply changing the laws he came up with an elaborate plan to impregnate a woman with his child for the sole purpose of the child growing up to be brutally tortured and murdered as a figurative stand-in for all of us. That way the law could change. People in the 21st century actually believe that.

    You DON`T see how that is hard to follow?"

    Brutally murdered, and then Resurrected and Transfigured. You missed that part.

    The story of Christ is throughout the Old Testament as well as the New, and is a fulfillment of a Covenant made between God and man.

    The Laws exist so that we might see how far separated we are from Him, and recognize how much we need the Sacrifice of Christ.

    I understand how it can be hard to believe, but the wholeness of the Word is easy to follow. The Sins are still Sins, but the punishment is pa
  33. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:17 am
    (cont.)


    I understand how it can be hard to believe, but the wholeness of the Word is easy to follow. The Sins are still Sins, but the punishment is paid.
  34. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:27 am
    " The Sins are still Sins, but the punishment is paid."

    If so, why be good? If someone already paid the bill, why would *I* worry about it? Or am I enslaved to the person who paid the bill and lose my right to live freely? I didn`t ask him to pay the bill so why should I be punished for it?
  35. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:31 am
    Wow, what a scumbag.
  36. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:38 am
    Brutally murdered, and then Resurrected and Transfigured. You missed that part.
    Well since you haven`t even shown that he actually existed, I think a discussion on policy is moot. But if you want to accept a book that is a translation of an earlier translation of copies of supposed original letters that were written over a century after this "Jesus`" death then that`s your business.
  37. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 7:54 am
    Ooh, it`s 9/11! That time of the year already.
  38. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 8:09 am
    @Lauriloo
    That is your choice, and if you wish to turn down His gift of Salvation, that is your right. I don`t see how you are being punished. I chose to follow the Law to the best of my flawed ability, so that I may build a deeper relationship with Him. But, that is my choice.

    @patchgrabber
    While I am no teacher of apologetics, and thus will not be attempting to persuade you about the existence of Christ, I do feel that a discussion of policy is not moot. I was asked a question on policy, so I gave an answer.

    As for the "translation of a translation", my preferred copy is of the ESV, which translated directly from the Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew texts.

    The last of the apostles to die was John, and he died a century after the birth of Christ. The Book of Revelation was written by him, and is believed to be the most recently written.
  39. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 8:47 am
    I find the ability to rationalize belief in the Bible disturbing. If you`re that willing to disregard reality to suit what you`ve been told, who knows what you`re capable of believing.

    There was a talking snake, some guy came back from the dead...
    Sounds more like a fantasy novel to me.
  40. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:34 am
    There is logic buried in every argument. If everyone gives up sinning, poor old JC`s gonna be flipping burgers.

  41. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:37 am
    nubblins

    "Sounds more like a fantasy novel to me."

    No s.hit right?

    The year 4,000:

    "You must accept frodo as your personal lord and savior. He threw the ring into the volcano for your sins"

    "I don`t believe he even existed"

    "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?! IT`S IN A BOOK!!!!"

    "Ya but so are lord potter and our savior katniss"

    "Those books don`t count. Only the book my parents read to me counts. Out of all the books the one I BELIEVE is the ONE TRUE BOOK."
  42. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:45 am
    JadesDitoyr

    "The Laws exist so that we might see how far separated we are from Him"

    Separated from him? Good.

    God does FAR worse in your bible then I have ever done. God kills hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people. I would never want to be associated with someone like that.

    What about him do you find so good? The fact that he`ll let you into his club when you die if you spend your whole life worshiping him?

    Would an omnipotent, omnipresent, perfect being need your constant praise? What is god? A teenage girl with daddy issues?

    I dig jesus. He seemed like a good dude. However I refuse to believe my creator is the a.sshole from the old testament. I wasn`t created by a petty, jealous, malicious, vindictive sociopath.
  43. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:49 am
    my preferred copy is of the ESV, which translated directly from the Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew texts.
    ...which are themselves copies of copies found only as early as 2nd century CE, and even those are only fragments.
  44. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:52 am
    @nubblins
    Don`t forget, the snake grows up to be a Dragon, who is then cast into a pit.

    I`m not trying to rationalize my faith, I understand that it is a difficult thing to understand and that it is impossible to explain to those who don`t have faith. I`m not an apologetic, just a believer.

    I can tell you what I believe, and I can tell you that I do believe it. I will talk all day about my beliefs, and I`m happy to do so.
  45. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 10:03 am
    @HolyGod
    My God can be wrathful and vengeful, but also loving and forgiving.

    Those that have died at His command were not innocent, just as I am not innocent. The death that they suffered at His hand is a death of the physical; but they too have the opportunity of forgiveness.

    God doesn`t need me, as it turns out. I am not necessary to God`s plan; but He wants me to be near Him. There is a difference, and one that I am thankful for.

    And, as it turns out, you were. Just because you do not acknowledge it, the truth isn`t erased.
  46. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 10:19 am
    JadesDitoyr

    "Those that have died at His command were not innocent"

    The babies that drowned in the flood and died in egypt WERE innocent.

    You ever stop to think HOW f.ucked up the flood was? He`s god. He could have just snapped his fingers and everyone could have died painlessly and instantly if that is what he wanted. No. He CHOSE to DROWN them, one of the most horrible deaths there are.

    BTW. An invisible purple tiger that lives in my attic ate a golden unicorn and s.hit out the universe.

    " Just because you do not acknowledge it, the truth isn`t erased."
  47. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 10:31 am
    JadesDitoyr

    Btw, I just wanted to congratulate you.

    Thousands of years.
    Thousands of gods.
    Thousands of religions.
    Billions of people.

    Yet almost all of them got it wrong but you. Congratulations on knowing the one truth about the one true god. That is not in any way arrogant.

    It must feel good to know that while billions of people are JUST as sure about their religion and their god as you are, they are actually all wrong and you are right. What an amazing coincidence for you.
  48. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 10:56 am
    @HolyGod,
    I suspect slut etta is saying that idiots are the future of the world. I`m afraid she may be right. Probably doesn`t matter if they`re religious or atheistic idiots.

    @Tovarishch,
    Nothing unusual about HolyGod`s attitude toward religion, despite the counterpoint presented by his user name. I would guess that the more religious among us, I`m not one of them, are not fond of those posts since he typically presents arguments that are pretty well reasoned.
  49. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 10:57 am
    @HolyGod
    The babies were innocent, unless you believe in Original Sin. In that case, we inherit Sin from Adam. And, those born in the antediluvian times were also mingling with the Angels and the Fallen.

    And, yes, the Flood was a devastating thing, and drowning is horrible. But, snapping His fingers and killing everyone wouldn`t have hid the dinosaur bones. (That is a joke.) I believe that I`ve conceded the point that my God is wrathful.

    I`m not going to draw parallels between the Flood and the cleansing ritual for Gentiles to enter Jerusalem. You`re smart enough to know that already.

    I deserve no congratulations for my Faith. I have done nothing special to be a Christian. The only Righteousness within me is passive. That the majority of the world either does not know God or turns their back on Him makes me weep.

    I am blessed by my Faith.
  50. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 11:04 am
    @HolyGod,
    "You must accept frodo as your personal lord and savior. He threw the ring into the volcano for your sins"
    Oh, please! You HAVE to expand on that! I`m *dying* to see where it goes!

    "BTW. An invisible purple tiger that lives in my attic ate a golden unicorn and s.hit out the universe."
    Still laughing at that one!
  51. Profile photo of Phosphoreign
    Phosphoreign Male 30-39
    308 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 11:08 am
    Um... just for the sake of saying so... `cause so many of you have said how terrible drowning is... according to modern science, drowning / asphyxiation is the easiest way to go... with a lack of oxygen you go euphoric, get kind of dreamy, then die. The most painful and horrifying way to die (I`m told, I haven`t tried it...) is burning alive...
  52. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 11:09 am
    Oh,BTW, forgot to note:
    Zak (in the posted note) is clearly an a$$hole:
    1) You get suspended for punching out a kid in school
    2) It was Obama`s fault?
    Zak has a great future waiting for him at the McDonald`s counter.
  53. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 11:13 am
    Referencing Obama was making fun of the way both parties blame the President for everything, when the President is not of their party. "Man, Obama is making it so I can`t physically force others to follow my religion. That jerk!"

    While no sane person would believe that physical violence is a worthy response to the situation, the hyperbole is classic.
  54. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    Jades, I would say that you are cursed by faith rather than blessed.
  55. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 12:54 pm
    @spanerbulb
    You are welcome to your opinion, but I believe that my faith makes me a better person, and the world around me a better place.
  56. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4891 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 1:48 pm
    @JadesDitoyr,
    Methinks you give to much credit to the idiot Zak. If he honestly thinks it`s OK for Grant to have punched out that kid, then he`s probably stupid enough to actually blame Obama.
    By the way, while I don`t share your faith I firmly believe that if it brings you comfort, joy, peace and satisfaction...carry on! Also, I`ve read your exchanges with HolyGod. Remember that he`s not, I think, really trying to piss you off. He`s just having fun, enjoying the debate.
  57. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    @broizfam
    Oh, I was referring to Sweep`s comment, moreso than Zak. He is, clearly, either an idiot, or a satirist. I believe in giving people benefit of the doubt.

    And I don`t get mad at people for their ignorance of religion. Most people don`t get good exposure to it. If I can provide good exposure, I`ll gladly do it.
  58. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:16 pm
    @Jades
    I`m just confused on how, even though you know it`s hard to believe, it makes sense to you. I`m not a religious person, however, I`m also not militantly atheist. I`m open-minded. Perhaps there is a creator, perhaps he/she(assuming it has a gender, which to me kind of makes me wonder.. CAN GOD REPRODUCE??!?) is the vindictive, all-powerful entity that the Bible describes. I just refuse to believe I know everything about the universe. Because I don`t. Not one single human being does.

    The largest problem I have with the excuse of "faith" is that you`re believing something without tangible facts. Someone LITERALLY told you what to believe. With no proof.
    No. Proof.
    Speculation, ignorance (mostly scientific ignorance), and hearsay, but no proof...
  59. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
    JadesDitoyr

    I may not respect blind faith, but I respect the way you handle yourself. You seem like one of the good ones. I suppose if your beliefs give you an inner peace than I envy you that.
  60. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    Phosphoreign

    "according to modern science, drowning / asphyxiation is the easiest way to go..."

    I`m not talking about the ACTUAL death so much as the process. The hours if not days of struggling, desperation, exhaustion. The slowness of it as you try to stay above water. The amount of time you have to spend with your impending death.
  61. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 2:48 pm
    I appreciate the compliment, and I hope very much so to be "one of the good ones".

    Though, there is nothing blind about my faith, I have a bookshelf full of Church History, Theological Studies, and treatise about my Faith that I have studied over the years. I know that I am not an apologetic, I`m not as articulate as I wish I was.

    If there is interest, I think I can find a video from one of the apologetics that I admire.

    nubblins, I went three years for a Bachelor of Science degree before I ran out of money (I don`t believe in loans) and will be finishing my degree as I have the funds. From what I have seen, the tangible fact that I have seen, led me to the same conclusion that it led C.S. Lewis to.
  62. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    Bullsheit. This would have been in the news if it were real.
  63. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    " From what I have seen, the tangible fact that I have seen, led me to the same conclusion that it led C.S. Lewis to"

    Please, expand. I`m interested to know what your proof is.
    As long as it`s not stuff like, "I saw the sun rise and it was beautiful and I felt God." :/

  64. Profile photo of FAKEBACON
    FAKEBACON Male 18-29
    586 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 3:56 pm
    Both are idiots. What does Obama have to do with it anyway?
  65. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 4:38 pm
    @nubblins
    The snarky answer - The statistical improbability of a randomly generated existence is so great, it would take a literal (now) miracle to occur.

    The long answer is that, in order to believe that a creator does not exist, I must believe that there existed a time in which Scientific Law did not function. Then, Order was brought into the universe; including the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

    My degree was in Horticulture, so my focus was on plant life and not physics, but we seem to live in a very complex system. Precariously placed to have an atmosphere that we can sustain ourselves within. A world where we can witness and create testimony about the world around us.

    "Ah, but life adapted itself to its environment." I`m told. I can buy this, to a point. Of course the creatures on Earth are changing, but they change within their species.

    (continued)
  66. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6912 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 4:47 pm
    JadesDitoyr

    I don`t necessarily disagree with what you said, but two direct questions:

    1. You need god to exist so that the universe has a nexus right? Because everything has to have a beginning? So where is god`s beginning? If you need the universe to have a creator, then by the same logic the creator must have a creator, and so forth into infinity.

    2. Let`s say we had a creator. Why do you believe it was Jehovah? Why pick THAT god? THAT creator? THAT holy book? It seems like your logic just makes you believe there was a creator but past that point you just chose the creator you were told about. So if you were born in india you`d be just as devout a hindu as you are now a christian.
  67. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 4:57 pm
    (continued)

    Maybe my Biology book explained things poorly, but it shows a "Family Tree" that shows how all life came from a single common ancestor. My understanding of the chart did pass me the class, so I can`t imagine that I`m too wrong on my interpretation.

    We start as single cell organisms. Great. Throw the Law of Biogenesis out the window, its not necessary here. As time marches on, six distinct Kingdoms are formed (Animalia, Archaea, Bacteria, Fungi, Plantae, and Protista). From there, all the Phylums/Divisions, Classes, Orders, Families, Genuses, and Species came about.

    Wow. There is a whole lot of diversity for not a lot of environmental variation. I believe the current theory is that these single celled organisms didn`t even spontaneously exist on Earth, they came here from extraterrestrial sources on an asteroid?

    That would have all life starting from one geographical point.

    (continued)
  68. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm
    (continued)

    If all life has a geographical origin, that cuts down on the environmental stimuli by quite a bit. There are no sparrows to carry the coconut yet, so the plants aren`t *yet* migratory. Plants that seed because of wind currents spreading the seeds would spread the quickest. Excellent Dandelions everywhere! (Here I can actually recognize that ferns would spread quickly, and they are the theoretical first plants.)

    Now we`ve got five more Kingdoms to spread out.

    Now, "horizontal evolution", the evolution within a species I can accept. I`d have to be blind to not realize that while my cats share a species. Felis silvestrius catus. But they are different breeds, and that is where we see our primary adaptations. More breeds are created and they change over time, but do they stop being Felis silvestrius catus?

    There are rosebushes growing at my old High School that I bred. They`re unique, aren`t growing anywhere else. But they
  69. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 5:20 pm
    (continued) There is too much chaos there.

    I`m told that if you give 1,000 monkeys 1,000 typewriters and 1,000 years, they will randomly produce a play comparable to Shakespeare.

    I don`t believe that. I can`t believe that. You will, however, get 1,000 dead monkeys (unless they bred, then you`d have more - but we said nothing about giving them food) and 1,000 broken typewriters.

    Every time you shuffle a deck of cards, they come out in an order that no deck had ever been in before. (That`s another statistic I hear a lot.) There are 80 658 175 170 943 878 571 660 636 856 403 766 975 289 505 440 883 277 824 * 10^12 combinations of cards that a 52 card deck can be stacked in. Even if there were only 52 variables that had to line up exactly for life to exist on Earth, there`s our chances. Shuffle a deck, and get A-K Hearts, Spades, Diamonds, Clubs in order.

    (NOTE: I had to break the number apart so that I could use it)
  70. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    (continued)

    So, I`ll adjust the old clockmaker statement. If I`m at your house, and find a deck of cards that are in that order, I have to assume that you just played solitaire.

    I see the chaos of randomness that would be required to create the order of Earth, and I must assume that it was intentional.
  71. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 5:44 pm
    @HG
    "1. You need god to exist so that the universe has a nexus right? Because everything has to have a beginning? So where is god`s beginning? If you need the universe to have a creator, then by the same logic the creator must have a creator, and so forth into infinity. "

    Almost. All of Creation has a beginning and an end. The Universe has to have a beginning and an end.

    But, Pslams 90 states that God is Eternal. Genesis tells us that "In the beginning, there was God." Genesis is talking about the beginning of Creation.

    "Beginning" and "End" are words that require a linear existence to understand. They require temporal passage. We give the words meaning because it is how we experience the world around us, but God is outside of that.

    He knows the end before the Beginning. He knows us before we are born because He exists outside of time. (He is of Bajor.) All that was, is, and will be are playing out
  72. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 5:53 pm
    (cont)
    are playing out for Him.

    2. Let`s say we had a creator. Why do you believe it was Jehovah? Why pick THAT god? THAT creator? THAT holy book? It seems like your logic just makes you believe there was a creator but past that point you just chose the creator you were told about. So if you were born in india you`d be just as devout a hindu as you are now a christian.

    This one will require multiple postings as well. Yes, my cultural upbringing favored my belief in Christianity because one side of my family is very much Christian. The other side is Agnostic or Atheistic. Beyond the Judeo-Christian Faith, I am probably more familiar with the Hellenistic Religions than anything, followed then by the Theosophist Heresies. (Sorry to any Theosophists out there, especially students of Blavatsky.)
  73. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 6:11 pm
    (continued)

    Lets start with Judaism, because Christianity is really a Jewish Denomination. Yes, I grew up hearing the stories of the Old Testament, and I look at the histories presented there as just that. Despite my father`s family being Christian, my faith was forged in the Old Testament.

    I love studying Prophesy, and while the NT has the Book of Revelation, the OT is full of prophesy. Nearly everything is prophesy. Even the genealogy of Noah is, in its own way, Prophesy.

    Adam (Man), Seth (Appointed), Enosh (mortal, frail, or miserable - from anash), Kenan (sorrow, dirge, or elegy), Mahalalel(Blessed God - Mahalal blessed/praise and El), Jared (shall come down - from yaradh), Enoch (teaching or commencement), Methuselah ("his death shall bring" from muth - death- and shalach - to bring or send forth), Lamech (despair/The Despairing), and Noah (from necham - to bring relief or comfort).
  74. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    (continued)

    When you combine the names, you get
    "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; The Blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring the dispairing rest."

    Please forgive me if you are offended that I added some punctuation and one word. Genesis chapter 5, if you read the names tells you the story of Christ. To me, that is so amazing, so awe inspiring, that I must pay heed.

    There are 66 books, penned by 40 authors, over thousands of years. But right there, in Genesis 5,the story of Christ.
  75. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 9:21 pm
    @JadesDitoyr is wrong and will spend eternity with Zeus* pecking out his liver. Don`t say I didn`t warn ya.

    *I am of course joking. Gods simply don`t exist except as figments of the imagination of the poorly educated, brainwashed and mentally deficient.
  76. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 11, 2013 at 11:04 pm
    @Draculya
    Well, honestly, I`m honored that you put me in the same category as Prometheus. (Even though he is a Lucifer figure.) I could go for being the one who brings Wisdom.

    However, I must correct you, it wasn`t Zeus who did the pecking, it was an eagle.

    I`m sorry, I probably shouldn`t correct you, as I clearly must be mentally deficient, uneducated, and brainwashed.
  77. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 3:55 am
    Oh, the thermodynamics thing...
    Give me a break.
  78. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 5:06 am
    After reading some more "Conversations", The only people who are as stupid as religious folks, are those who argue with them. Hey religious folks:Get an education,it will serve you better than god. Non-religious folks: stop talking to idiots with make believe friends in the sky.When you argue with them, you make them feel as if they are worth noticing.Let them show the world their ignorance.
  79. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 5:49 am
    Oh, the thermodynamics thing...
    Give me a break.
    Yeah, the misunderstanding in all those posts makes my brain hurt. I also think he meant the 2nd law, because I`m not sure what the entropy state of a perfect crystal at absolute zero has to do with his post.

    Either way it`s a fundamental misunderstanding of science at best.
  80. Profile photo of JadesDitoyr
    JadesDitoyr Male 18-29
    841 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 9:28 am
    yes, I did mean the 2nd, physics was never my focus. I would normally make a joke here, but I`m fairly certain that it would instead be assumed that I was serious when saying it.

  81. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 10:29 am
    yes, I did mean the 2nd
    I figured as much. However if physics wasn`t your focus then I`d avoid using it to attempt to disprove evolution or order arising from disorder, because the 2nd law doesn`t apply to either.
  82. Profile photo of Langer
    Langer Male 18-29
    394 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 11:55 am
    @JadesDitoyr - To elaborate on your deck of cards analogy; what you are looking for is just one specific combination of cards. An `ordered` deck can be defined in multiple ways (e.g. ascending/descending, different order of suits), which could significantly reduce the odds of finding an ordered deck.

    Additionally, population size of attempts is also important. If you went to someone`s house, and saw not just one, but several billion decks (or arbitrary large number of undefined size), one of which was `ordered`, would it still be right to assume that someone was playing solitaire? (On that note, why solitaire? why not any other card game, or maybe it was a new deck?, or maybe the owner just ordered them on a whim to check if any were missing)

    I wouldn`t go so far to say that I know any definitive answer myself, but evaluating the probability of something occurring after the event is a tricky business.
  83. Profile photo of Magentab0b
    Magentab0b Female 30-39
    1467 posts
    September 12, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    One time a blind date was going so badly we started talking about religion. I started making some serious science fiction origin story pooe up and he thought it wasn`t a thought exercise. To that one random person I am that nutty lady he wished he could of hit in the face.

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