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Date: 09/22/13 07:28 AM

49 Responses to Nightmare In Kenya As Islamists Attack Civilians[P

  1. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 7:47 am
    I know this is completely off topic, but i gotta get this off my chest.

    The word `Islam` is a verb. The noun describing someone who practices Islam is `Muslim`. Calling someone an Islamist is comparable to calling someone who swims a lot a `Swimist`. It`s nonsense.

    Just had to get that out there.
  2. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 7:55 am
    I don`t know where the "[P" in the title came from, was that me?

    @Kain1: Because sometimes one gets tired of the term "Jihadist"? And that "Jihadist" isn`t necessarily a violent term, since not all "jihads" involve violence?

    Someone who supports "socialism" is a "socialist"
    Someone who supports "unions" is a "unionist"
    Someone who supports "Islam" is...

    Anyhow: these guys were Muslims, no doubt about it! They selected their victims by allowing Muslims to leave and killing everyone else - truth.

    Thye chose THAT Mall because there`s be lots of tourists and non-Muslims there...

    &etc.
  3. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 7:57 am
    @Baalthy used to lecture us on the "jihad" thing :-)

    I don`t miss him. Occasionally he was insightful on the Middle East, Islam and such, but not often.
  4. Profile photo of MikeyNiv
    MikeyNiv Male 18-29
    697 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:11 am
    >daily mail
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36850 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:18 am

    This can`t be true. Muslims are all peaceful, passive people, right?

    And just in case anyone with a gun should ask you, the prophet`s mother was Aminah bint Wahb.
  6. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:30 am
    Yes, islam/muslims is truly a club of love just like they`ve said after everyone of these cluster f ucks
  7. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7066 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:45 am
    Kain1,

    Someone who practices Islam is indeed a `Muslim` but Islamist (although not clearly defined) implies someone who does not merely practice their own religion but who believes that all aspects of society (legal, political, commercial, personal, financial, cultural) should be subordinate to sharia.

    To describe all muslims as Islamists is like describing all christians as Dominionists. Of course Islamism is more of an immediate problem than Dominionism but it`s the same basic distinction.

    It`s the difference between seeking to practice your religion in peace (Go for it, best of luck) and seeking to make others subordinate to your religion (bad, very bad.)



  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36850 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:53 am

    "Islam is a verb"... as in The Nation of Swim?
    or "in Swimic tradition".

    I don`t think it`s a verb.
  9. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:55 am
    They were targeting every non-muslim people. Islam, the religion of peace as long as you are an islamic person and you do has you`re told
  10. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:04 am
    Peace and love. Love and peace.

    Yeah... uh-huh.
  11. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:06 am
    I honestly didn`t intend for this to be a "Muslim Bashing" post! Although Muslims are certainly the criminals here. I DO understand that MOST Muslims aren`t like this, ok?

    I ALSO get damn tired of IAB Liberal Brigade Members saying "Christianity is just as bad", OK?

    Right now? Buddhists are massacring Muslims, Muslims are massacring everyone else, and Christians (as a group) are massacring... NO ONE!

    At least not based solely on religion...

    The pictures in this article are TERRIFIC! Just sayin...
  12. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:17 am
    How is Islam a verb? "I Islam you" "You Islam me, baby". No, it doesn`t work.

    If you mean in Arabic, it comes from a word Aslama which can be both a noun or a verb, it means "Submission", by the way. We should just call them by the literal translation, "Some submissionists in Kenya..."

    Islam and swimming are different things, so it`s appropriate to affix the "ist" suffix to the ideological belief, but not the mundane activity.

    You can`t win with IAB`s Progressive brigade. If he said "Muslims", he would`ve been attacked. If he said "Islamists", he would also get attacked (he was). There is literally no way to describe things without getting Progressive panties in a twist.
  13. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:22 am
    I swear, there is some unholy alliance between Progressives and Islam. Firstly, even the most "Moderate" Muslims are far more Conservative than Sarah Palin or Micheele Bachmann. Just trust me, Western European liberal Muslims make up 5-10% of these countries at best and it`s a little ethnocentric to think, "Oh, well of course they think like us. We are the natural progression of human thought evolution". You`re not.

    Plus, if they ever hypothetically took over our societies, the uber-Progressives would be the first to go. And even assuming Moderate leadership, George Bush would start looking like Nancy Pelosi.
  14. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:33 am
    @LordJim:

    Although the vast majority of Islamists believe in Sharia law it is not necessarily a requirement. An Islamist believes that Islam should have some sort of impact in an area`s social and political spheres. Yet that does not necessarily equate to a Sharia law supporter. An analogy would be like how every square is a rectangle yet not every rectangle is a square, so to speak, with the square being a Sharia law supporter and a rectangle being any Islamist.
    The Welfare Party of turkey is considered Islamist yet it did not profess Sharia law but rather a more liberal muslim inspired policy. Abdullah Gul, the current president of turkey, was the deputy leader of the party until it was dissolved in 2003. Yet he is a proponent of gender equality and freedom of expression and faith, and he is president of a secular nation.

    There are many other examples, especially now with the Arab Spring defining many separate belief and political structures.
  15. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Why not try using the phrase `extremists` to describe anyone bastardising their own religion wether it be Muslim, christian, buddhist etc...?
  16. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 9:36 am
    for instance Anders Brevik was a christian extremist who killed a poo load of people who he said were undermining Norways traditions Christian values.
  17. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:13 am
    Because English.
  18. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36850 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:14 am

    "Buddhists are massacring Muslims"
    If this is true they cannot be Buddhist. Violence and Buddhism are not compatible. You`d have to turn away from Buddhism to commit violence. Hell, they`re not supposed to kill an earth worm when digging a hole. Where as Islam encourage and justifies violence, as do other religions.
  19. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7066 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:38 am
    5Cats,

    ` damn tired of IAB Liberal Brigade Members saying "Christianity is just as bad", OK?`

    Who said that?
  20. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:42 am
    so the word islamist could mean

    — adj
    1.supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism— n
    2.a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism
    or
    noun
    1.a scholar who knowledgeable in Islamic studies
    2.an orthodox Muslim

    whereas extremist could mean


    noun
    1. a person who goes to extremes, especially in political matters.
    2.a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
    adjective
    3. belonging or pertaining to extremists.

    — n
    1.a person who favours or resorts to immoderate, uncompromising, or fanatical methods or behaviour, esp in being politically radical

    — adj
    2.of, relating to, or characterized by immoderate or excessive actions, opinions, etc

    so surely extremist is a better choice?
  21. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7066 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:43 am
    Gerry,

    The `No True Buddhist Fallacy?
  22. Profile photo of som-tam
    som-tam Male 18-29
    714 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:44 am
    a murderer that claims to follow christianity or bhudisim is not the same as an islamist. the islamist use verses and chapters from their (un)holy -book to justify their behaviour, and are only, grudgenly, condemned by a small minority of their `community`.
    breviks` manifesto used historical figures such as vlad dracule, therefore cannot be described as a `christian extremist`.
  23. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:49 am
    @McDuff73: I would agree to a point, extremists imply that the views are an outlier.

    What most of us regard as the extremist muslims (with some exceptions) is a branch of Sunni Islam first taught by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and coined Wahhabism and its connection to Salafist jihadism. Wahhabism follows the Athari school which is a type of textualist approach to reading the Koran. Wahhabism focuses on curing the moral decline and political weakness of the Muslim religion since the fall of the great arab empires.

    The Salafi movement follows this but takes it a step further and is a more fractured belief. Some Salafis hate to be called Wahabists yet they are essentially wahabists who reject any kind of speculative philosophy or "kalam" and seek to reconcile Islam with modernism where as pure Wahabism simply rejects modern influences altogether.
  24. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 10:50 am
    Either way, they both see the spread of secularism and political democracy as a threat to Islam and view America as the pinnacle of this.

    To counter this perceived threat and to once again form a great arab nation these groups have decided that a jihad against all those who profess Kalam is justified to accomplishing these ends. Claiming that it is democracy that is the cause of all the wars of the 20th century and that Shia and certain Sunni Muslims were infidels that supported such perversions.

    This is a predominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism gained considerable influence in the Islamic World following a tripling in the price of oil and the progressive takeover of Saudi Aramco in the 70`s. The Saudi government began to spend hundreds of billions of dollars throughout the Islamic World to promote Wahhabism. The funding accounted for 90% of the expenses of the entire muslim faith and flowed in to universities, mosques, and communities.
  25. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:04 am
    Yepper, this was Muslims. Just like David Koresh was a Christian. I mean, he was, after all, right? Or is that Christianist? I guess Dennis Rader, Scott Roeder. So are the Westboro Baptists. The KKK. The IRA. Woo-hoo, this is easy!
  26. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:04 am
    There are some exceptions to even this such as purist Salafis who reject any political motivations as a distraction from the worship of Allah and simple Wahabists who support the beliefs but never actually carry out any violent actions or aid in them.

    Yet the primary source of Islamic extremism is firmly based in this. Yet I still feel that the term "extremist" is a little too generalised for a specific belief that has been funded, supported, expressed, and spread. I`d just call it Wahhabist jihadists, but I can still live with extremist I guess, I do personally view it as extreme.
  27. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:13 am
    @Som-tam
    "therefore cannot be described as a `christian extremist"

    He summarizes his goals, stating "I believe Europe should strive for: A cultural conservative approach where monoculturalism, moral, the nuclear family, a free market, support for Israel and our Christian cousins of the east, law and order and Christendom itself must be central aspects.

    further
    On his Facebook profile, Breivik described himself as a Christian

    His manifesto states its author is "100 percent Christian"
  28. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:15 am
    We have several million (between two and four) Muslims living in the US. Of those several million, how many have committed acts of terror here? Yeah, that`s what I thought.

    So, here`s the deal, I don`t care about Islam any more than Christianity. I think it`s all mythology and don`t give a rip about who believes what. I don`t try to force my beliefs on anyone. But, to me, here in the US, there *is* a group that tries to limit the rights of minorities. There *is* a religious group that tries to force their beliefs onto minorities and everyone, via law. To me, that`s terrorism right here, and it`s why I get pissy about Christians claiming some sort of "superiority" or peacefulness above and beyond other religions. Christians are no better, and, here in the US, at least, they`re far worse because they have such a large voting block with which to forward bigoted, Taliban-like beliefs.
  29. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36850 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:22 am

    @ LordJim, I don`t think there are very many Buddhists in Scotland.

  30. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:26 am
    @richanddead see I would call Salafis fundamentalists much like the Westboro Baptists or Hasidic Jews are fundamentalists, but extremists take it a few steps further which is why I would use the term extremist to denote such skewed religious thinking.
  31. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:27 am
    is that just one of your fantasies Gerry1of1?
  32. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:37 am
    @McDuff73: They are not simply fundamentalists but they are a specific type of fundamentalist, they are jihadists, Wahhabist jihadists. Part of the reason people feel it is all muslims not a particular sect of them, I feel, is because we don`t do enough to define who we are talking about, thats all.
  33. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3517 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:40 am
    @SmagBoy1:

    Some cheese with your whine?


  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Who said that?
    @LordJim: A bunch of them! Not lately though... It`s a dogma of liberalism to make "false equivalences" as if they were facts.
    See: @SmagBoy1`s posts for confirmation...

    HINT For @SmagBoy1: Dude, a TINY CULT is not the same as 25% of 1 BILLION + people! Seriously dude, it`s called:

    "False Moral Equivalence" go look-it-up!

    Now: if the POPE or ABoC said the things those Imams say? THAT would be a different case entirely.

    so surely extremist is a better choice?
    @McDuff73: No.
    I know what you`re saying, but: it leaves out the IDENTITY of those involved.
    If you`re going to say "Islamic <Extremist>" or "<Extreme> Jihadist" & etc? Why not just shorten it a bit? That`s what the English language does.

    @Gerry1: LOLZ! @LordJim has PWND you! :-)
  35. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    @5Cats. Yous said, "Dude, a TINY CULT is not the same as 25% of 1 BILLION + people! Seriously dude, it`s called: `False Moral Equivalence` go look-it-up!"

    See, that`s the problem. Your stats (re: 25% of 1 BILLION people) is pure vapor. The idea that 25%, 2.5% of even 0.25% of those who self-identify as Muslims are terrorists who believe that it`s okay to kill simply because of religious beliefs is pure fantasy. But whatever. I know we aren`t going to solve this, and, as I say, I`m not defending Muslims so much as pointing out that it`s not a few small cults, it`s the Republican party who vote to actually codify bigotry that I have issues with. To me, *that`s* terrorism, too, it`s just more subtle.
  36. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    @som-tam: Correct!

    For the language debate: An ancient "Crusader" was indeed a "Christian Extremist" - ok? But calling him an "Extremist Crusader" would be redundant - yes?

    @Richanddead: Very good! (More than I know about it! lolz!) Nice selection of cheeses too.

    @SmagBoy1: The KKK were Democrats. They hated Catholics too, what does THAT make them if they hate "Christians" as much as other groups?

    @McDuff73 At 11:13:22 AM Says one thing...
    @SmagBoy1 At 11:15:21 AM Says the OPPOSITE...

    = LMAO! :-)

    There`s nothing wrong with "fundamentalism" is there? It`s not INHERENTLY bad like Wahhabism. `Bad` by OUR standards, `Blessed By Allah` in their minds... of course!
  37. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 2:13 pm
    @SmagBoy1: Polls from Muslim nations reveal the truth: A LOT of them support things YOU would call "extremism" ok?

    Just because they sometimes "put on a face" for Western Press? Doesn`t mean they actually believe it! It`s OK in their religion to lie to infidels. Also to kill & rape them too! Ever read the Koran? Or that other book they follow?

    No I`m not going to hunt them down and link the polls, they`ve been on IAB before and are Off Topic, eh? If I come across one I`ll put it up...
  38. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 4:35 pm
    @McDuff73 At 11:13:22 AM Says one thing...
    @SmagBoy1 At 11:15:21 AM Says the OPPOSITE...


    what are you on about 5cats?
  39. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    the people mostly concerned about the identity of the extremists tends to be the bigots that follow along wanting to tar with the same brush anyone else of the identity those extremists claim to be representing, using the term extremists without the rest of the label would take the winds right out of the bigots sails.
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 5:17 pm
    VV O_o

    what are YOU on about @McDuff73? Are you calling the IAB Liberal Brigade bigots? Well, they ARE but it`s not very polite to tell them that anyhow...
  41. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 8:27 pm
    I`ve come to the conclusion, as a whole, Muslims are more trouble than they`re worth.
  42. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14653 posts
    September 22, 2013 at 11:46 pm
    President`s response speech: "Now is not the time for travel advisories"

    Loooool! Kenya has always been a nice place with deadly, lawless neighbours and porous borders. You go at your own risk.
  43. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 12:59 am
    OldOllie

    I`ve come to the conclusion, as a whole, Muslims are more trouble than they`re worth.
    ---------------
    Cant agree more, all I hear on the news now is Muslims outrage, Muslim`s need listening to,
    Muslim community need police protection,
    Muslim`s speak out against police ignorance
    God damn, sorry to sound negative but We in Blighty bend backwards and beyond to try and please you, bout time you stopped f ucking moaning, not happy FECK off
  44. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 3:03 am
    Looks like some of you think i have some kind of moral objection to the word Islamist. Not at all. The guys who did this are clearly Muslims. And it is also clearly true that extreme Islam is responsible for a major portion of these religiously motivated terror attacks. I`m no fan of fictional sky people of any kind, especially not when their followers kill civilians.

    My beef is with the word! `Islamist` is nonsense English. It`s a neologism, and furthermore, it`s redundant. Call them extremist Muslims. That`s what they are.
  45. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 7:07 am
    Islamic, Muslims don`t care cause they support and harbor these groups and never step the f uck up a denounce them and do something about it.

    Kinda funny how the ultra PC crowd here is quick to denounce the phrase "under god" in the US pledge of allegiance which is pointless but the second you pint out how barbaric Islam is they defend it tooth and nail.....
  46. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 10:07 am
    The problem is, the so-called "good Muslims" don`t contribute enough to society to offset the damage done by the rest of them.
  47. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 11:24 am
    @smageboy1
    Talliban-like behavior? Lots of burka wearing christians where you are? Lots of Christians beheading their daughters for reading a book? When was the last time a Jehova`s Witness raped your family and burned down your house after you shut the door in their faces. Sure, Christianity had the crusades (as you people so love to bring up)...thousands of years ago. Islamist extremests are doing this today. So keep shaking your tiny fist at the "In God We Trust" on your money.
  48. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33126 posts
    September 23, 2013 at 11:47 am
    @Denogginizer: Welcome to IAB! Have a cookie :-) Nifty name!

    You are 100% correct!

    The Amish don`t demand YOU never drive a car!
    The Hudderites don`t demand YOUR WOMEN wear a headscarf!

    But Muslims DO! And that`s in the USA!
    In the nations they control? YOU WILL BE KILLED for violation of Islamic Laws!
    There is NO "separation of Church and State" there!
    Islam IS the State! The State IS religion!

    Compare that to "One Nation Under God" and I will LAUGH at y`all!

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