Invalid Arguments: Climate Change

Submitted by: aquaman1227 3 years ago in Science

Since it"s been topic on here lately.
There are 68 comments:
Male 37,888
[quote]When did I say he is stupid?[/quote]
LOLZ! Very funny @HolyGod!
The you even quote the part where you do it! Oh you don`t LITERALLY use the word...

[quote]The number of believers?[/quote]
Lets face facts: SOMEBODY is wrong! Either billions of one group, or billions of another, eh? Mere nubers do NOT make it right... AGW Back On Topic! (Just for you @Squrlz4: lolz!)
0
Reply
Male 12,138
What`s the difference between Scientology and Christianity? About 2000 years.

Same goes for Islam, and all the others. It`s all equally bullsh*t. It`s just that some religions are more ensconced than others.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
HG: "So if there were a billion scientologists and only a few million christians..."

That`s not going to happen. But anyways, no it`s not about numbers. It`s about certain qualities as stated before, "ostracism, elitism and fanaticism", among others.

Radical islam has quite a lot of members, but they are known for hunting down apostates, throwing acid on women`s faces, stoning people, and blowing themselves up on occasion. I find those actions far more dangerous than the Branch Davidians were ever accused of doing and it was obvious they were a cult.
0
Reply
Male 6,227
... wondering why this thread regarding climate change has been hijacked into a rant about religion ...
0
Reply
Male 8,132
Crakr

"I draw the line at cults, like scientology"

What makes scientology different than christianity?

The number of believers? So if there were a billion scientologists and only a few million christians then in your mind scientology would be ok and christianity would be a cult?
0
Reply
Male 8,132
5Cats

"So if @CrakrJak believes the Universe is 6 Billion years old... and YOU believe the SAME? Then WHY are you saying he`s stupid?"

When did I say he is stupid?

I said:

"If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don`t require them."

Whether or not you believe in the bible you have to admit that belief in the bible is based almost entirely on faith. There is no proof whatsoever in most of the bible. So it is an example of a person`s capacity to believe in something without proof. That`s all.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
HG: "Is ANY belief totally legitimate and acceptable? Can we have NO baseline for sanity?"

I draw the line at cults, like scientology, the rajneeshs, raelians, mooneys and radical islam.

And I have to say, many atheists are beginning to act rather cultish, at times, as well. Mostly due to ostracism, elitism and fanaticism among them.
0
Reply
Male 37,888
@HolyGod: So if @CrakrJak believes the Universe is 6 Billion years old... and YOU believe the SAME? Then WHY are you saying he`s stupid? Unless YOU are saying that of yourself also??

IT DOESN`T MATTER if the Big Bang happened "spontaneously" or "on purpose" OK? That is MOOT!

[quote]"Moot" (3) adjective:
: not certain : argued about but not possible for people to prove
: not worth talking about : no longer important or worth discussing[/quote]

You seem to spend a LOT of time deliberating on moot points, juts my observation...

If you "believe in Santa" and also believe in freedom of speech? Does that make ALL freedom of speech STUPID? IRRATIONAL? WRONG?

Seriously dude: logical fallacies...
0
Reply
Male 8,132
Crakr

"I certainly wouldn`t be condescending and dismiss all of your judgements out of hand and call you irrational"

If I believed in santa you wouldn`t call me irrational? Seriously? Is ANY belief totally legitimate and acceptable? Can we have NO baseline for sanity?
0
Reply
Male 8,132
5Cats

"CrakrJak has repeatedly informed you he`s not a "6K" ok?"

Do you see me accusing him of it? Have you seen me ever accuse him of it? What the f.uck are you talking about? AGAIN you are arguing against a position I have never taken.

"He`s repeatedly said he does NOT."

When? I`m not talking about the 6,000 year thing as that can be interpreted different ways. It isn`t expressly described in the bible. I`m under the impression he DOES believe the bible literally, as in the flood was a real flood and not a metaphor, etc. If he doesn`t then I have misunderstood or am misremembering.
0
Reply
Male 8,132
djwajda

"Yep, I left out guys like Albert Einstein because the list was pretty damn long."

Good. Leave him off the list. He was a life long agnostic, if not atheist.

He described the concept of god as the result of human weakness and called the bible childish.

Do a LITTLE research before you put someone in camp crazy because of one out of context quote.
0
Reply
Male 15,832
@HG [quote]I`ve probably had sex with more girls in the last year than you have in your entire life.[/quote]
That one`s probably true. It`s hard to imagine that anyone would ever have sex with you twice.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
"If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don`t require them."

Your ignorance and bigotry is astounding. You`ve completely jumped the shark, with that statement.

Are you really so arrogant, in your atheism, that you think deists are inferior? If so, you`re no different than the guys wearing white hoods and burning crosses.

"If I told you I believed in santa would you trust me to make rational judgements in other areas?"

I certainly wouldn`t be condescending and dismiss all of your judgements out of hand and call you irrational. It`s the same kind of bigotry used to justify Jim Crow.
0
Reply
Male 37,888
[quote]Since God made the world and made it perfectly...[/quote]
HOLY COW @Squrlz4! Who`s stupid enough to believe THAT?? LMAO! That`s some hard-core KOOKERY there!

One look at "the world" and it should be obvious it`s far from "perfect"...
0
Reply
Male 37,888
@HolyGod: There`s a HUGE difference between:
"Creationist" = God created the universe 6 BILLION years ago
And "6K Creationist" = God created the universe 6,000 years ago

OK? @CrakrJak has repeatedly informed you he`s not a "6K" ok?

@HolyGod: Well? How many have you read? 1, 3, 17, 84?? I have thoroughly read about 3 in my life... SO it might be true, so why `flip out` over it?

[quote]If you believe the bible verbatim...[/quote]
Once again I ask: HOW do you know this? He`s repeatedly said he does NOT.

You`ve done this kind of "mind reading" with me on several occasions: just FYI, eh? It comes across as really silly! Especially when you keep repeating it in the face of correct information...
How "scientific" is THAT? >-( Lolz!
0
Reply
Male 883
@HG

Yep, I left out guys like Albert Einstein because the list was pretty damn long.

So @Crakr simply disagrees about climate change and it isn`t to your liking or @mesovortex`s liking so `hey let`s call him illiterate and tell him he knows nothing because he`s religious`?

[quote]Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind[/quote]

I may not totally agree with the above statement but then I also am not the man that discovered the theory of relativity either so I guess a guy that smart can say what he pleases.
0
Reply
Male 8,132
djwajda

"bashing a person`s religion has nothing to do with the debate."

Totally disagree. If you believe the bible verbatim without any evidence whatsoever than I personally believe you eliminate yourself from any serious discussion on things that require rational thought and tangible evidence.

If I told you I believed in santa would you trust me to make rational judgements in other areas?

"Just a few very notable scientists from history that believed in god yet made some of the most important scientific advances in history."

1. You listed people who lived hundreds of years ago, some during a time when saying you didn`t believe in god would have been a punishable offense. Also, a lot of funding for the sciences at those times came from the church.

2. I`m not talking about belief in god. I`m talking about believing the bible verbatim literally.
0
Reply
Male 883
@Squrlz

Everything you just said I agree with. I left a lot of names off that I`d found but those stood out in the beginning of it so they`re what I used.

I guess what I was trying to point out is if you`re going to tell someone they`re `scientifically illiterate`, be a bit more literate yourself.

I do think we`ve affected the climate. I also believe however that it has at times been overblown like so many other things when politicians have agendas to push. And it goes both ways such as `big oil` agendas and so forth. What`s needed is common sense to prevail and a middle ground reached. But of course that will probably never happen and the big debate will continue to rage on.

But again, bashing a person`s religion has nothing to do with the debate.
0
Reply
Male 6,227
(Cont`d)

Since this belief is at the very core of their religious views, trying to persuade them with facts or data or logic is a waste of time.

@ CrakrJak: At the risk of being impertinent, I have to ask, CJ: As a creationist, is that your belief? That is, do you believe that there is no way that God would have created a world that could be damaged by man`s CO2 emissions? (Feel free to decline to answer; this is private territory, I know.)
0
Reply
Male 6,227
@ Djwajda: Agreed. (And I`d add Charles Darwin to your list of scientists who believed in God and have made major scientific contributions.)

Generally, I think it`s best to leave religion out of global warming discussions entirely. The only case where it gets tricky, however, is with creationists--and by creationists (to define terms upfront), I mean those who believe that God created the Earth in the exact form we see today in the seven-day process described in Genesis.

I have discussions with climate change skeptics all the time. And very often I come to find that at the heart of a creationist`s skepticism regarding climate change is this belief: Since God made the world and made it perfectly, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that it would contain a vulnerability--i.e., a flaw--that would allow man to do serious harm to it or destroy it.

(Cont`d)
0
Reply
Male 94
If you believe in Climate Change but is not the fault of man just the big ball in the sky. Something that is so big even 1% change in the output can affect earth because man is insignificant in the size of the planet you are evil or something.
0
Reply
Male 883
So this went from a discussion about climate change to religion bashing?

[quote]If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don`t require them[/quote]

Nicholas Copernicus,Sir Francis Bacon,Johannes Kepler,Blaise Pascal and Michael Faraday. Just a few very notable scientists from history that believed in god yet made some of the most important scientific advances in history.

I could care less what a person believes and I certainly won`t hold religion against them if I don`t agree with their opinions.
0
Reply
Male 8,132
5Cats

"YOU do this ALL the time!
Mr.Mensa Member
Self-Made Businessman
Mixed Martial Arts fighter
...and countless other forms of self grandiloquence you`ve posted here at IAB... "

Those are all true things about me that I have brought up in relevant conversations. I NEVER said I was the best fighter in here or I was the greatest small businessman on this site.

His quote was not simply that he had published a scientific paper, or even several. That would have been fine. It was:

"I`ve probably contributed to more published papers in the last year than you have read in your entire life."

Huge f.ucking difference no?
0
Reply
Male 8,132
5Cats

"@CrakrJak: Again, you`re a creationist.

AGAIN: He`s not a "6000 Year" creationist! You`re arguing against a FALSE BELIEF (on YOUR part)."

NO. NOT ON HIS PART. He didn`t say he was a young earth creationist. YOU DID. He just said he is a creationist, which is true. Once again you are arguing against a position nobody has taken.

"You by definition are scientifically illiterate "

Lets re-phrase that so it`s REALLY easy to see:

"Your skin is white, so by definition are scientifically illiterate -"

SEE?"

No. No sane person sees. Being white has nothing to do with being scientifically illiterate. Believing the absurdity of the bible does. You really don`t see a connection there?

If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don`t require them.
0
Reply
Male 8,132
Crakr

"You rarely do."

Well. Being emotionally vested in whether one group of millionaires I have no connection to run in a square more than another group of millionaires just always struck me as rather pathetic, but each to their own.
0
Reply
Male 37,888
[quote]Oh are we having an asinine hyperbolic self-fellating contest?[/quote]

@HolyGod: Honestly? How does your post "advance the discussion" Humm? Seriously dude.

YOU do this ALL the time!
Mr.Mensa Member
Self-Made Businessman
Mixed Martial Arts fighter
...and countless other forms of self grandiloquence you`ve posted here at IAB...

So you don`t simply ASK for some evidence? HECK no! YOU THROW POOP! Like the Alinsky-trained monkey you`ve chosen to become.

I`ve never "demanded to see" @davymid`s PHDs FFS! He says he has them? Fine! It doesn`t alter WHAT he says now does it?

@casidhe: We "skeptics" do NOT say the Earth isn`t warming, it is! It has been for 5,000 YEARS! And humans have VERY LITTLE to do with it. Period.
It`s warmed up before, no humans around to blame!
0
Reply
Male 37,888
@mesovortex: VV SEE! SEE! That is EXACTLY what I`m talking about!!!
Common Complaints from the IAB Liberal Brigade:
-your links are BIASED
-there are no links!
-Faux News!
-your dumb!

Seriously? Address the topic. Spouting off like a hyperactive kindergartener is NOT a form of discussion!
Not so much you @mesovortex, mostly those OTHER posters here. They know who they are...

But YOU do it too!

[quote]@CrakrJak: Again, you`re a creationist.[/quote]
AGAIN: He`s not a "6000 Year" creationist! You`re arguing against a FALSE BELIEF (on YOUR part).

[quote]You by definition are scientifically illiterate -[/quote]
THAT by definition is BIGOTRY. look it up! To dismiss every valid point because of YOUR bigoted beliefs = BAD!

Lets re-phrase that so it`s REALLY easy to see:

"Your skin is white, so by definition are scientifically illiterate -"

SEE?
0
Reply
Male 458
@5cats:
Your article had no scientific references or citations in it period. It was nothing but opinionated bunk.
0
Reply
Male 458
@CrakrJak:
Again, you`re a creationist. You by definition are scientifically illiterate - and with every post in threads like these you prove it.

Your favorite tactic is to cherry pick ONE graph which still shows warming, pick the lowest part in the last 10 years, and then claim "Oh well it`s not enough".

Here`s the global mean over land and ocean temps:

Even the denialist website WUWT has a global temperature page which supports global warming:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/global-weather-climate/global-temperature/

Note that the lower stratosphere is cooling while the troposphere is warming. That`s a dead giveaway to the greenhouse effect.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
HG: "I don`t get it."

You rarely do. The most truthful thing you`ve said on IAB in years.
0
Reply
Male 458
@5cats:
I predict denialists instead of posting actual science will attempt to post op-eds which spin the science and skew it into drawing conclusions that the original science didn`t say.

And, what do you do? Just that.
0
Reply
Male 458
@randomxnp:
I know the debate better than most people - and the video was spot on and based in facts.

Read the youtube description. Citations were provided.

Where`s yours?
0
Reply
Female 62
Anyone with ANY doubt about climate change really need to look at what is happening to the Poles and in particular Alaska`s disappearing ice.We need to look at the whole Earth. Many people have been lulled into a sense of false security by the recent news that earths temperatures have stabilised but we also need to consider our Oceans temperatures which ARE getting warmer. The ice at the poles cools the planet and provides a buffering effect...so far. Without that ice (and it is disappearing fast) the planet will suddenly get much warmer.The term "global warming" has also confused the issue because as some areas become drier and hotter other areas become colder and wetter .The balance for sustainable life is precarious and when the tipping point occurs life on this earth for many species including our own may not be possible.The warning signs are all there .
0
Reply
Male 8,132
OldOllie

"Oh, and BTW, I am a scientist. I`ve probably contributed to more published papers in the last year than you have read in your entire life."

Oh are we having an asinine hyperbolic self-fellating contest?

OK.

Here are some equally stupid comments:

I`ve probably had sex with more girls in the last year than you have in your entire life.

I`ve probably made more money in the last year than you have in your entire life.

I`ve probably scored more NFL touchdowns in the last year than you have seen in your entire life.

F.ucking how amazing how easy it is to be f.ucking amazing anonymously on the internet huh?
0
Reply
Male 8,132
OldOllie

"It is certainly not "Literally every person.""

I though it was pretty clear I was postulating a complete hypothetical. The point was not that literally every person believes that. The point was that even if they did you would hold your own personal opinion in higher regard.
0
Reply
Male 37,888
0
Reply
Male 37,888
[quote]I doubt OldOllie disputes the planet is warming. Few informed people do.[/quote]
Correct!! @randomxnp is right! The Earth IS WARMING! No doubt about it!
It`s the ALL or NOTHING mindset of the AGW side that causes these nonsensical arguments. Their dogma must never even be questioned!

The Science Is Settled! >-(

The rate and the cause AND WHAT HUMANS should do about it? That`s another matter!

[quote]This video does not address most of the sceptics` arguments.[/quote]
Correct again @randomxnp! The strawmen are so easy to "prove wrong" eh? But that`s typical...

[quote]He pointed out that in the past, CO2...[/quote]
@Mesovortex: So in THE PAST the humans raised the CO2? Or did it happen NATURALLY? THAT is the real question he avoids...
0
Reply
Male 15,832
[quote]Ollie knows more about science than scientists.[/quote]
I don`t consider AGW hucksters to be scientists, because they don`t follow the scientific method.

o The scientific method does NOT allow you to start with your conclusion.

o The scientific method does NOT allow you to search only for data that supports your conclusion.

o The scientific method does NOT allow you to hide data that contradicts your conclusion.

o The scientific method does NOT allow you to slander and personally attack other scientists who present data that contradicts your conclusion.

AGW isn`t science. It`s just a bunch of liberals who want to boss people around and take their stuff.

Oh, and BTW, I am a scientist. I`ve probably contributed to more published papers in the last year than you have read in your entire life.
0
Reply
Male 15,832
[quote]So 95% of the scientific community that studies this field think one thing.[/quote]
Actually, I think it`s closer to 100%. You can`t be accepted as a member of this so-called "community" unless you FIRST declare your belief in AGW.

It`s like saying 95% of Catholic priests believe God exists. Does that make it so?
0
Reply
Male 15,832
[quote]Literally every person that has devoted their lives to the study of the earth, weather patterns, etc could walk up to him and say that their research has convinced them that climate change is real and man made...[/quote]
And there you have it -- the Big Lie. This claim of "consensus" is the fundamental underpinning of the fraud. It is certainly not "Literally every person." The AGW pimps have taken over the universities, journals, funding organizations, and government bureaucracies. Anyone who presents conflicting evidence is immediately slandered as a "denier," equating them with Holocaust deniers, and shunned. They can`t even graduate, let alone get hired, promoted, tenured, funded, or published unless they toe the line.

AGW has MUCH more in common with religion than science. Colleges turn out true believers just as consistently as any seminary or madrasa, all professing belief in their one true god. It`s the biggest fraud in history
0
Reply
Male 8,132
skullgrin

"these people who think global warming has anything to do with humans are retarded. like, seriously mentally handicapped."

Another person who is so much smarter than all the scientists.

So 95% of the scientific community that studies this field think one thing. Please tell us what years of research or study you have done that trumps their opinion?
0
Reply
Male 8,132
Crakr

"I`m celebrating. The STL Cardinals just won the NL Central Division."

I don`t get it. However you didn`t say "we just won" so I`ll give you credit for that.
0
Reply
Male 8,132
mesovortex

Ollie knows more about science than scientists. Literally every person that has devoted their lives to the study of the earth, weather patterns, etc could walk up to him and say that their research has convinced them that climate change is real and man made and it wouldn`t matter because he believes he is smarter than all of them and his opinion trumps their years of research and knowledge.

He once told me that he went to a mensa meeting once but he was so much smarter than everyone so he left.
0
Reply
Male 458
@skullgrin:
The temperature on all of the other planets is not going up as well. If you bothered to research this claim before posting it, you`d know it.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
HG: "Where are the conservatives...?"

I`m celebrating. The STL Cardinals just won the NL Central Division. So I really don`t give a crap about the AGW alarmists cries right now.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
Davy: "...it`ll be too late anyway. Screw the next generation..."

Says the guy whose career it is to find the oil that is supposedly creating all the excess CO2 that`s "killing the planet".

The sky isn`t falling, the planet is fine, just go live your life and ignore the scaremongers that are trying to manipulate the world for profit.
0
Reply
Male 334
0ok skullgrin, let us all here and now agree you are right, it is not man made... just for the sake of argument, not man made at all.. should man interfere in the climate changes though? and lets assume that we do want to change the way the climate is turning around, does it really matter if it is man made? should we not try to counter it? should the counter not be man made?
0
Reply
Male 12,138
Aw, who gives a f*ck anymore. By the time we collectively finally admit that it`s happening, it`ll be too late anyway. Screw the next generation, open another case of beer!

p.s. To my daughter: I apologise that you were born into a generation of retards.
0
Reply
Male 936
there is absolutely zero evidence that global warming is man made.

whats interesting is that the temp on all the planets in our solar system is also going up. is that man made too?

these people who think global warming has anything to do with humans are retarded. like, seriously mentally handicapped.
0
Reply
Male 458
@Gauddith:
It boils down to this. "Skeptics" (which they`re not) argue that it can`t be real. You ask why, or for evidence and they give you the following:

* An op-ed article which takes original data and severely skewers it
* Evidence that actually supports global warming - yet they can`t figure out how or why
* LIBERAL CONSPIRACY
* Because I say so
0
Reply
Male 458
@5cats:
He answered it. He pointed out that in the past CO2 has caused temps to amplify. Ergo, we`re putting out more CO2, and temps will get higher (which they are).
0
Reply
Male 458
@randomxnp:
I know the debate better than most people - and the video was spot on and based in facts.

Read the youtube description. Citations were provided.

Where`s yours?
0
Reply
Female 231
I like how there is a debate here.

Because it`s not really a debate, and that`s what makes it so funny. It`s pretty much people going, "THE SUN ISN`T REAL." And then the rest of them look up into the sky and go, "No, pretty sure it`s there." And everyone goes back to their day.

Only person bothered by this is the guy claiming hoax. Everybody else is on the same page. It`s as plain as day.
0
Reply
Male 1,293
Squrlz4Sale

Now I see your problem. You have no idea what sceptics actually argue. This video does not address most of the sceptics` arguments. It does address some straw men, and it addresses a few arguments but misses the point. He got one point right and on target in the while video, although there he misses the more important point and he is really only hitting a side issue.
0
Reply
Male 1,293
mesovortex

They are not refuted. It is a shame, because the Green brothers are usually so good, but Hank gets a lot wrong here (and yes, I do probably know more about the Earth and climate than he does) and in other cases he misses the point, and attacks a straw man.
0
Reply
Male 1,293
moesovortex

I doubt OldOllie disputes the planet is warming. Few informed people do. That is not the hoax. The hoax is that we cause it by releasing a minor greenhouse gas in relatively small quantities (relative that is to the natural flux).
0
Reply
Male 37,888
Answer #1 wasn`t an answer: he changed the subject.

How`s that for a good start?

Global Temps have risen and fallen since the dawn of time: Humans Did It ALL! Those naughty, CO2 emitting cavemen... >-(
0
Reply
Male 6,722
someone call the old crazy folks home Oldollie has gotten out again.
0
Reply
Male 458
@OldOllie:
You should accept global warming because of the evidence behind it. It`s not some `leftist` conspiracy, McCarthy.
0
Reply
Male 84
Anyone else think that this guy IS or is heavily inspired by the "Ask a ninja" guy. His mannerisms are the same
0
Reply
Male 15,832
If this guy thinks I`m going to buy into the global warming hoax because I should give a loose dry f*** about HIM, he`s going to be sorely disappointed.

BTW, in case you haven`t noticed, the UN is nothing more than a bunch of leftist dictators who want to boss us around and take our stuff.

0
Reply
Male 6,227
@ HumanAction: LOL.

"Say `hoax` again. I dare you! Say `hoax` again. Say it just ONE. MORE. TIME."
0
Reply
Male 2,357
OK - someone has to say it - that guys voice annoys the crap out of me. If Morgan Freeman narrated this, it would instantly gain respect.

Even better - Samuel L. Jackson.
0
Reply
Male 458
Countdown until doofuses here post the exact same arguments discussed in the video (and that are already refuted).
0
Reply
Male 8,132
Where are the conservatives countering all this scientific data with their own personal opinions?
0
Reply
Male 176
That pretty much sums it up. The UN stating that they are 95% certain that global warming is caused by humans really should shut most people up.
0
Reply
Male 6,227
Wow. I have new respect for this guy. His answers were *spot* on and he managed to touch on all the major skeptic arguments in under four minutes.

There`s more scientific accuracy in his four minutes than you`ll get from a decade of watching Fox News or reading *The Daily Mail*.

Good job, Mr. Fast-Talking Glasses Guy! =^.^=
0
Reply
Male 683
Link: Invalid Arguments: Climate Change [Rate Link] - Since it`s been topic on here lately.
0
Reply