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Date: 09/30/13 05:02 PM

86 Responses to 14 FACTS About US Government Shutdowns! [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm
    Link: 14 FACTS About US Government Shutdowns! - Because some IAB members think they`ve never happened before? Carter had 6! Bush had... zero.
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Poor Jimmy. He get`s such a bad rap.
  3. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 5:42 pm
    When the president, every member of congress, their aids and secretaries and anyone that works for these morons lose their pay then I`ll consider a shutdown something serious.
  4. Profile photo of Thonious
    Thonious Male 40-49
    987 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm
    Jimmy Carter, a capable man in an impossible position. He knew, and accepted as his role, that we needed a period of rest after more than a decade rough presidencies and politics.
  5. Profile photo of bacon_pie
    bacon_pie Male 30-39
    3061 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    Let`s iron this out guys. Don`t you know national parks will be forced to close!? Heaven help us!
  6. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    Why the "Carter had 6! Bush had... zero." part? Was it necessary? The link, at a glance, seems to say both parties have had `em, no one`s more/less f`d up than the other.
  7. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 6:20 pm
    And Reagan had 8.
  8. Profile photo of SephirothA83
    SephirothA83 Male 18-29
    955 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    Posts a relatively unbiased posts, makes sure to make it repubutard captioned
  9. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 6:55 pm
    Once again, 5Cats immediately ruins an otherwise unbiased and somewhat informative post with a dumba$$ link description. Way to go buddy, I`m proud of you!


  10. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 8:24 pm
    The country voted for the democrat for president.
    The country voted for a democratic senate.
    The country voted for a democratic house.

    Therefore the country voted to support "obamacare". Accept defeat and move on. In 20 years this will be viewed the same way that social security or medicare is now. Get on the right side of history.

    By "The country voted for a democratic house" I mean more votes were cast for democrats in house races than republicans. I`m aware the house is majority republican because of gerrymandering.
  11. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    September 30, 2013 at 8:33 pm
    We have a functioning government nya nya nya!
  12. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 1:52 am
    HolyGod: Yeah, the US elector system confuses me to no end, there doesn`t seem to be any clear rules about it. The "Winner-takes-all" tradition seems fundamentally flawed to me, and also that an individual elector isn`t bound by the actual outcome of the vote either, that also seems off to me.

    Why can`t you just have one vote per citizen and after counting them whatever candidate or party has collected the most votes wins?
  13. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6248 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:09 am
    HolyGod-"The country voted for the democrat for president. The country voted for a democratic senate. The country voted for a democratic house. "

    One of those statements is false. (you`re later explanation aside, our goverment is not elected by popular vote)

    HolyGod-"Therefore the country voted to support "obamacare". "

    Hell, even the House didn`t vote for `obamacare`. It was `deemed` passed.

    It`s funny that, after Obama illegally delaying parts of Obamacare and giving 1,231 waivers, all of a sudden they want to enforce the law (but only certain parts of it).
  14. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:22 am
    And again I will ask...

    If Obamacare is such a grand thing why is Congress not being made to use it instead of asking to be made exempt? I`d think if it was so wonderful guys like Harry Reid would be all over it right?
  15. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:36 am
    I`d think if it was so wonderful guys like Harry Reid would be all over it right?
    Perhaps they have an existing contract with a health care provider already? The private company that provides me with my federal government health care plan has one such contract. I`m not sure if the US has such a relationship, but perhaps it`s better to think critically about these things before jumping to rhetoric.
  16. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:52 am
    @Runemang: Two reasons:
    #1 Blame Bush! A favorite pastime of the IAB Liberal Brigade? Does NOT apply here!
    #2 The MSM and the White House are trying to portray this as an "ALL Republican" issue. Carter had a Democrat House!!! Which you`d know if you glanced at the article...

    @patchy: #1: 6 in 4 years > 8 in 8 years
    #2 Carter had a Democrat House! Reagan had both Repub & Dem houses to deal with.

    @WhoDat: Some IAB members have stated this has NEVER happened before! That it MUST BE RACISM!!!
    FFS, you opposed to learning something?
    Honestly? I had no idea it had happened so often. I do remember Carter & Reagan`s Budget Battles...

    @HolyGod: For 3 years the Democrats did NOT PASS a budget! (2010, 2011, 2012) THAT is the only reason this "crisis" is happening, ok?
    Facts: deal with them!
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:59 am
    Therefore the country voted to support "obamacare".
    @HolyGod: Are you JOKING? Did America have "three weeks to read the bill" like Obama PROMISED? Did ANYONE read it?
    No.
    How you can claim America "supported" a blank piece of paper is... liberal of you!

    "We have to pass the bill to see what it says"
    - Nancy Pelosi, Democrat House Leader

    Perhaps they have an existing contract with a health care provider already?
    Nice try @patchy! But the fact is that these "waivers" and special LAWS giving exemption are needed because otherwise ObamaCare WOULD apply! And they DO NOT WANT it! Unions, gov`t agencies, all those people who SUPPORTED IT are now demanding it NOT APPLY to them!

    (sorry for all the caps, need... more coffee!)
  18. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 7:59 am
    @HolyGod:
    "I`m aware the house is majority republican because of gerrymandering."

    Actually both sides Gerrymander quite freely and at times even admittedly. Take Texas`s 22nd Congressional District or Pennsylvania`s 12th Congressional District which ensures a Republican victory.

    Democrats also drew gerrymandered lines in states where they controlled the process, but had less of an impact over all because they had control in fewer states. Take the 17th Congressional District of Illinois and Maryland`s 3rd Congressional District which ensures a Democratic victory.

    In fact there is hardly a state, republican or democrat, that isn`t in one form or another Gerrymandered.
    Yet, political scientists from the Quarterly Journal of Political Science have used computer algorithms to draw totally random districts have generally found that they still result in Republican advantages. They accredit it to, as they put it...
  19. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 7:59 am
    "Democrats are inefficiently concentrated in large cities and smaller industrial agglomerations such that they can expect to win fewer than 50% of the seats when they win 50% of the votes."

    Many political scientists have noted that since Clinton the democratic coalition has become geographically narrow, heavily concentrated among urban liberals and minorities who live in densely populated cities or are placed into minority districts.

    Here`s a couple of links for you:
    link

    link


    "the country voted to support "obamacare"."

    Actually only 42% of people approve of it, most want it repealed.
  20. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:12 am
    richanddead

    "Actually both sides Gerrymander quite freely"

    ABSOLUTELY.

    I am not saying it is cheating either. It is the way the rules are set up. They have every right to do it.
  21. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:18 am
    The country is still goin just fine no raining frogs and rivers of blood.... this should tell us they`re pretty much completely useless and should all be fired for not showing up to work which is what would happen to all of us if we pulled this crap!
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:21 am
    richanddead

    "Actually only 42% of people approve of it, most want it repealed."

    Link?

    1. Forbes` newest study finds only 33% of people want it repealed.

    2. Most people don`t know what it is or what it does.

    3. I happen to believe that in 10 years almost everyone will approve of it, once they see it isn`t sarah palin death pannels and hannity economic arsenic. People are basing their opinions almost exclusively on the opinions of which pundits they watch.
  23. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:27 am
    5Cats

    "Are you JOKING? Did America have "three weeks to read the bill" like Obama PROMISED? Did ANYONE read it? No. How you can claim America "supported" a blank piece of paper is... liberal of you!"

    Are you READING?

    I said they supported it by voting democrat in 2012. It was a MAJOR issue and people chose the party promising to make it happen, NOT the party promising to repeal it.

    It was passed March 23, 2010. I`m pretty sure November 6, 2012 is more than 3 weeks after that. Correct me if I`m wrong.


  24. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:30 am
    djmajda

    "If Obamacare is such a grand thing why is Congress not being made to use it instead of asking to be made exempt? I`d think if it was so wonderful guys like Harry Reid would be all over it right?"

    It ISN`T a "grand thing" for multi-millionaires. It is a grand thing for the rest of us. The rich people that run the government already have fantastic health insurance.
  25. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 8:31 am
    @patchgrabber:

    "Perhaps they have an existing contract with a health care provider already?"

    No they get a 11 thousand dollar subsidy to buy one themselves. The Congressional Accountability Act of 1995 actually forces Congress to the same civil-rights employment and labor laws that lawmakers require everyday citizens to abide by.

    Yet Obama asked the Office of Personnel Management to allow congress to continue with the subsidy in August 2009. The OPM initially rejected him, then changed it`s mind.

    At that point Senator Vitter wrote a bill that required the white house and staff to abide under Obamacare. Harry Reid and Senate democrats drafted legislation that would deny federal health subsidies to anyone who votes for the Vitter plan, even if Vitter`s plan doesn`t become law.
  26. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:01 am
    All your Affordable Health Care Act questions answered. AKA "Obamacare". Happy Health Care Day Y`all, don`t forget to sign up for the exchanges starting today! (Suck it Teapubs).
  27. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:11 am
    perhaps it`s better to think critically about these things before jumping to rhetoric


    I don`t find it to be rhetoric to question why these people can tell me I have to use something that they voted themselves to be exempt from.
  28. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:16 am
    In fact, critical thinking involves asking questions instead of sitting back and taking the president`s word that something is good for me and my family.
  29. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:17 am
    "I don`t find it to be rhetoric to question why these people can tell me I have to use something that they voted themselves to be exempt from."

    Touche! Well said.
  30. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:20 am
    @HolyGod

    "Link? "

    link

    "They have every right to do it."

    No, not if they are doing it to cause useless votes. But it is nearly impossible not to do unless you are going to do a 1 party unified government approach. (which has its own set of equally bad consequences)
    Even using computers like they do today one can do small changes to the lines and set up drastically different outcomes and still follow all the rules set down.

  31. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:20 am
    "People are basing their opinions almost exclusively on the opinions of which pundits they watch."

    I disagree, I think it is because multiple large industries are switching from 40 hrs to part time work. I think it is because Union bosses are warning that it will hurt the work force and was not what was promised. I think it is because the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services and the CBO admitted to double-counting in the Obamacare budget. I think it is because the Government is afraid to go onto Obamacare. I think it is because Obama used powers he didn`t even have to postpone the employers mandate of the bill. I think it is because people can`t keep their providers like they were promised. I think it is because people premiums went up when they were promised they wouldn`t. I think its because the "navigators" that Obamacare will use and will have all your information but may have no criminal background check.
  32. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:21 am
    Obamacare explained

    See? links can be found to support both sides
  33. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:23 am
    Congress not exempt from "Obamacare".
  34. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:25 am
    HG:
    CNN/ORC opinion poll, 9/27 - 9/29 38% For - 57% against Obamacare.
    CNN/ORC opinion poll, 9/27 - 9/29 44% positive - 54% negative, Obama`s job approval rating.
  35. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:25 am
    I think its because senators Max Baucus and Harry Reid both said it would be a "trainwreck." I think its because Harry Reid stated that Obamacare was just a step towards single-payer health care, which has even less support. I think its because the obamacare subsidy cliffs create an incentive to under report your income. I think its because it has resulted in tens of thousand of more pages of regulations. I think its because NO ONE READ THE BILL BEFORE PASSING IT.





    ...but again, that just my opinion on why people may not approve of it.
  36. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:27 am
    Honestly all this stuff can be found under "responses to attacks", I don`t have to spoonfeed you.

    Once again Happy Health Care Day! :-D
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:38 am
    QueenZira: Congress members and their staff are indeed getting a 75% subsidy from the government to pay for their healthcare. That does indeed exempt them from having to get their health insurance on the exchanges like everyone else.

    If the government can hand themselves and their employees 75% healthcare subsidy, then why not do that for everyone else as well?
  38. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:40 am
    Where is the fire and brimstone? I was promised an apocalypse.
  39. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 10:23 am
    Whether you want to call it a "subsidy," or a "break," or a "continuation of the premium contribution." It is our taxes going to pay for hundreds of millionaires health care coverage when these people not only can well afford their own but have long since spent our money not to mention the money we`ll make ten years from now. And any time someone tries to tell them that they viciously go after that person with legislation.

    link

    Meanwhile they tell thousands of employers that make less than them, that are struggling just to meet overhead, that now can`t hire as many people and may even need to downsize or tell their employees their switching to part time, that they have enough money to cover the health care costs.

    ...Yea because this was all about fairness.
  40. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 10:50 am
    RichandDead

    "link"

    Odd to me that when I ask you for a link to back up your claim that "most want it repealed" you send me a link to a poll that says 23% want it to fail.

    Odd. Perhaps you may want to read more carefully?
  41. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 10:54 am
    Crakr

    "If the government can hand themselves and their employees 75% healthcare subsidy, then why not do that for everyone else as well?"

    Is that a joke?

    Democrats, I believe, would like to give everyone a 100% subsidy, i.e. nationwide single payer.

    You think THIS law is what democrats want? This is just as much as they could do with republican opposition. This is the first step.

    It is being opposed JUST like social security was. JUST like medicare was. In 20 years we`ll have single payer insurance and we`ll be happier with it JUST like every other country that has it.
  42. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4054 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 10:56 am
    I read some comments here about why doesn`t Congress use what everyone else has to and completely miss the point. I`m pretty sure most people in Politics are fairly well off Finacially. Why could congress "insider trade" legally and the rest of us couldn`t? I mean there`s a lot of things rich people can do that us Middle income folks can`t do. That`s the problem with the system. White collar crime = hardly any punishment. Do drugs though you go straight to jail!

    In General there`s WAY TOO MUCH Money in Politics. You want to see laws for the common man you have to start electing "common" people.
  43. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:16 am
    @HolyGod:

    "Odd to me that when I ask you for a link to back up your claim that "most want it repealed" you send me a link to a poll that says 23% want it to fail. Odd. Perhaps you may want to read more carefully?"


    Wow, you asked me "link?" for my statistic of 42% approving and most wanting to it repealed. I gave you one of the most respected polls that concluded that only 42% approve and that 53% disapprove, only 27% want to try to make it work as good as possible and 23% want to make it fail.

    And all you saw was "23% want to make it fail."

    No sir, perhaps you are the one that may want to read more carefully.

    Even supporters want to try to make the bill work as good as possible. And people who disagree don`t all want it to fail, most of them want it repealed before it does fail. The 27% and 23% don`t add up 53% if you noticed. Or as you Democrats like to say "it`s not math, it just arith
  44. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:16 am
    ...Or as you Democrats like to say "it`s not math, it just arithmetic."
  45. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    598 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:23 am
    >>>In General there`s WAY TOO MUCH Money in Politics. You want to see laws for the common man you have to start electing "common" people.<<<

    Yep because there is way too much power in Washington.
  46. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:23 am
    Notes how @HolyGod totally ignored @CrakrJak`s CNN poll data...
    I guess CNN is "a vast right wing conspiracy" place, and doesn`t count, eh?

    So @HolyGod: By your "logic"? NO ONE should question ANYTHING Bush did in his second term? After all: America Approved!! And re-elected him!

    Obama does not get "carte blanch" to do as he pleases just because he got re-elected...

    Your claim of "Republican gerrymandering" was just trolling then? Since you KNOW both sides do it?

    @QueenZira: Obamacare Explained In ONE Easy Chart!

    For Everyone:
    Eve
  47. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4032 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:27 am
    It has not affected my life at all. When it does, I`ll form an opinion on it and post a comment.
  48. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:32 am
    5Cats

    "Notes how @HolyGod totally ignored @CrakrJak`s CNN poll data...
    I guess CNN is "a vast right wing conspiracy" place, and doesn`t count, eh?"

    If you don`t know what we are discussing maybe you shouldn`t jump in huh?

    1. "Dissaprove" is not the same as "want it to fail".

    2. Polls are of "average americans". Average americans have NO IDEA what obamacare even is or what it does.
  49. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:32 am
    richanddead

    "53% disapprove" is NOT THE SAME as "want it repealed". A lot of Democrats disapprove of it as well because they wanted more.
  50. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:34 am
    I don`t find it to be rhetoric to question why these people can tell me I have to use something that they voted themselves to be exempt from.
    Like I hinted at, I don`t know all the ins and outs of the ACA. Perhaps there is a good reason they voted for exemption, perhaps not. But to compare people that do have healthcare to those that don`t isn`t necessarily a fair comparison. Would they be expected to decrease their level of healthcare to match what a person who can only afford the bare minimum has?
  51. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6248 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 12:25 pm
    QueenZira-"don`t forget to sign up for the exchanges starting today!"

    Except, of course for the two-thirds of that states where they seem to be having a problem getting the Obamacare system to work.

    Now, who woulda thunk it?

    It`s healthcare as run by the DMV.
  52. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6248 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 12:32 pm



    MSNBC host Mara Schiavocampo try to demonstrate how `easy` it was to sign up live on TV.

    She ended up looking like a fool.

    She finally just gave up.

  53. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    "Except, of course for the two-thirds of that states where they seem to be having a problem getting the Obamacare system to work."

    Wow, a brand new website that`s experiencing a very high volume of traffic is having technical issues? No way, say it ain`t so!!!
  54. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    MeGrendel

    "It`s healthcare as run by the DMV."

    Correct me if I`m wrong, but aren`t DMVs run by the states? Don`t you guys want a miniscule federal government with everything run by the states?

    Wouldn`t this be more like healthcare as run by the USPS? BTW, I happen to think the USPS is a f.ucking marvel of efficiency.
  55. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Wouldn`t this be more like healthcare as run by the USPS? BTW, I happen to think the USPS is a f.ucking marvel of efficiency.

    Uhhhh... that`s about to go under cause it`s in ove 45 billion dollars in debt........
  56. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6248 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    HolyGod-"aren`t DMVs run by the states?"

    The states, as with federal government, has a problem with inept workers who can`t get fired no matter how hard they screw-up, goof off or just don`t give a sh*t.

    HolyGod-"Wouldn`t this be more like healthcare as run by the USPS?"

    Not really, I think the USPS actually WORKS. (not very cost efficient, but it works)
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 3:44 pm
    This shutdown won`t last long. After awhile the public will realize they don`t need the Feds in their daily lives. The congressmen will then realize that they`ll need to protect their phony boloney jobs and get back to work.
  58. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 4:22 pm
    Crakr

    "This shutdown won`t last long. After awhile the public will realize they don`t need the Feds in their daily lives."

    Because nothing important has really shutdown.

    My guess is if the post office stops the mail, the military shuts down, air traffic controllers dissapear, and your social security checks stop coming you`ll realize how f.ucking badly you DO need the Feds in your daily life.
  59. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 4:33 pm
    McGovern1981

    "Uhhhh... that`s about to go under cause it`s in ove 45 billion dollars in debt........"

    I didn`t say it was profitable. It isn`t a for profit business. It is a public servivce.

    Do you really think it is possible to make a letter leave my front porch and arrive in a mailbox across the country in 3 days for 40 cents and be profitable?

    The point is I have been sending and receiving mail for 20 years with the post office without ANYTHING being lost or delayed. That is AMAZING.

    I can`t say the same for Fedex and UPS.
  60. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    Megrendel

    "Not really, I think the USPS actually WORKS."

    It does. So does the IRS. So does the military. So do lots of federally run institutions.

    So why are you so convinced this won`t / can`t be?
  61. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 5:02 pm
    @holygod: Did ANY OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN the other 18+ times the Gov`t shut down???

    No???
    Then STFU! Liberalistic Fearmongering...
  62. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 5:18 pm
    Senate better be careful, when average Joe America comes to realize just how little a gubmit shutdown effects him despite the "sky is falling" BS from the MSM, it`s going to be curtains. Then again, many are turning away from MSM all together.

    Senate elections aren`t too far away... Im betting another shellacking!
  63. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:00 pm
    "My guess is if ... your social security checks stop coming you`ll realize how f.ucking badly you DO need the Feds in your daily life."

    The longest shutdown we`ve ever had was 22 days, no shutdown has ever resulted in SS checks being stopped, the military being closed, the mail stopped, or air traffic ended.

    That`s the kind of scaremongering crap we get from liberals everyday. They want us to feel dependent on the government. But when it comes right down to it we aren`t dependent on the Feds, the Feds are dependent on us.

    We are their bosses, they are NOT our bosses.
  64. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6248 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 6:19 pm
    HolyGod-"So does the IRS."

    I would argue that one.

    HolyGod-"So does the military."

    They have a well-defined, measurable mission. As does the USPS and very few other federally run institutions. The difference is that neither of those are goverment SOCIAL programs. And while missmanagement and corruption are present, it`s not as inbred into the system as social welfare programs.

    HolyGod-"So why are you so convinced this won`t / can`t be?"

    Head Start, Social Security Disability, Social Security Retirement and Survivors Benefits, Supplemental Security Income (SSI),
    Medicaid. Medicare, Welfare, Food Stamps, Gov`t Subsidized Housing, etc.

    What do these have in common? They are governmnt run social programs that are, at best, missmanaged and, at worst, totally corrupt.
  65. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 7:02 pm
    5Cats & Crakr

    HOLY S.HIT.

    I wasn`t implying those thinsg were going to happen or have ever happened. OF COURSE NOT.

    I was simply refuting the comment "the public will realize they don`t need the Feds in their daily lives".

    If you wanted to say "the public will realize they don`t need the very small insignificant parts of the Fed that is currently shut down in their daily lives" it would be absolutely true and I wouldn`t have said anything.

    Saying "we don`t need the feds" because we don`t need the few things that are currently closed is retarded.
  66. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 7:07 pm
    MeGrendel

    "I would argue that one."

    Look, it isn`t run perfectly. However I think the IRS works. It is kinda staggering the amount of work they are able to do in the time between April 15th and the end of May.

    I am ALL for fixing things about the government. ABSOLUTELY. Let`s get rid of people that suck at their jobs. Let`s automate as much as possible. Let`s do things smarter and better.

    The difference between us is you think the federal government f.ucks things up so we should get rid of it as much as possible. I think the federal government f.ucks things up and we should try to fix it.
  67. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 7:15 pm
    5Cats & Crakr

    "That`s the kind of scaremongering crap we get from liberals everyday."

    IT IS NOT LIBERALS. It is the MEDIA. It is good for them for us to be worried and scared. That way we tune in for more info / updates / outcomes.

    Are most of the media liberals? Yes. Absolutely. However, they are mostly white too. Does that mean we get "scaremongering crap" from whites everyday?

    If you think ONLY liberals in the media made a big deal about the government shutdown then flip over to FOX News for 10 minutes. They make it seem like the apocalypse.
  68. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 9:22 pm
    @HolyGod: Um, the USA is "mostly white too" ok?
    The MSM is 80-90% liberal/left. J-School indoctrinates them, the system refuses to hire "right thinkers"...

    Even Fox has it`s share of liberals & leftists.

    BUT MSNBC has NO "righties" at all! Go figure!

    I wasn`t implying those thinsg were going to happen or have ever happened
    Sure looked like it to ME... looks exactly like it...

    Ah well, apology accepted :-)
  69. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 1, 2013 at 11:06 pm
    HG: "...flip over to FOX News for 10 minutes. They make it seem like the apocalypse."

    I`ve yet to hear any scaremongering on Fox about the shutdown. In fact they informed people about previous shutdowns and their minor inconveniences to peoples lives.

    Like I said, people will soon realize the scaremongering was all hype. They`ll realize the Feds aren`t crucial to everyday life. The thought will start to creep in, "What do we need those jerks for anyways?". That`s when these politicians will realize, once again, that they need us, otherwise they`d be jobless.
  70. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 12:05 am
    Crakr

    "Like I said, people will soon realize the scaremongering was all hype."

    Yes. OF COURSE IT IS. It is MEDIA hype, not liberal hype.

    "They`ll realize the Feds aren`t crucial to everyday life."

    Yes they are. The federal government is absolutely crucial to everyday life.

    The "shutdown" doesn`t reflect that because the shutdown didn`t shutdown anything vital.

    How can you say the federal government isn`t vital to your everyday life when you live solely off of funds from the federal government? I don`t get that.
  71. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 12:20 am
    5Cats

    "Even Fox has it`s share of liberals & leftists.
    BUT MSNBC has NO "righties" at all! Go figure!"

    Who are FOX`s lefties? Shepherd Smith? Who else? Beckel?

    Joe Scarborough, a republican, is a higher profile personality on MSNBC than ANY liberal on FOX.

    So your comment that MSNBC "has NO "righties" at all!" is false agreed? Or is Scarborough not a "righty" even though he was a Republican congressman for 6 years?

  72. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 5:42 am
    I didn`t say it was profitable. It isn`t a for profit business. It is a public servivce.

    Hmm so you think it`s ok for them to leech off taxpayers and get in over 45 billion dollars of debt.... Hey here`s an idea! If it`s a public server even though it`s supposed to be a private entity run it so it breaks even not rack up colossal debt at our expense!
  73. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 5:48 am
    HG: I live off of funds paid into the Social Security system, from FICA payments, from employee paychecks. Funds that I paid in and qualify to receive.

    You seem to think it`s some magical benevolent gift from Uncle Sam, it`s not. I know where my checks come from, the government is only a intermediary, the American public.

    In fact, it`s such an integrated and automated process now, that stopping it, for any length of time, would be a monumental task of it`s own.
  74. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 6:15 am
    HG: It`s obvious you haven`t watched Fox News for any length of time. They have many liberal contributors, hell they even signed Dennis Kucinich recently. They really do try to get more liberals on their shows, but more often than not they decline or don`t show up. I`ve also seen quite a few independents and libertarian contributors there as well.
  75. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 8:17 am
    Crakr

    "It`s obvious you haven`t watched Fox News for any length of time. They have many liberal contributors"

    I`m not talking about contributors or guests. I`m talking people with their own shows.

  76. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 8:20 am
    Crakr

    "You seem to think it`s some magical benevolent gift from Uncle Sam, it`s not. I know where my checks come from, the government is only a intermediary, the American public."

    No I don`t. I know where it comes from. Taxes. I pay taxes. However, without uncle sam the american public wouldn`t give it to you.

    You have tax money re-distributed to you just like people on welfare. It isn`t really any different, just a different system. I have no problem with it. I think the government should help people who need it. I just am always amazed how you take every opportunity to say we don`t "need" the government when you need it for your basic survival.

  77. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 10:14 am
    It is MEDIA hype, not liberal hype.
    It`s the SAME THING! You cannot separate the two!

    Meanwhile? OBAMA has ORDERED the WW2 Memorial CLOSED!
    Because some veterans are planning a rally. The order came right from the White House.
    How LIBERAL is that?

    Joe Scarborough = RHINO... lolz! I have no idea! I do know their "news lineup" top 10 readers is all white... at least it was a few months ago when they criticized Fox for "not enough coloured folks"... oh the irony!

    @HolyGod: The few times I`ve watched "discussion panels" on Fox? They had equal numbers of "right and left" panelists. Example: 1 liberal, 2 "neutrals" and 1 conservative.
    On CNN and the rest of the MSM? 3 leftists and 1 centre-right MAYBE! I`ve seen 4 leftists and the host discussing politics. GUESS which side they chose?

    @HolyGod: Once again: He collects INSURANCE HE PAID FOR. Get it? Sheesh.
  78. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 10:28 am
    HG: Geesh you really are thick. Social Security is not like welfare, never was. Payments into the SS system are not a tax. Many people get tax refunds every year, you do NOT get SS payments back until you retire or become disabled. You have to work over 20 years to qualify for SS. You don`t have to work to get welfare.

    "...without uncle sam the american public wouldn`t give it to you."

    The American public signed onto the SS system long before my parents were even born, it`s ingrained into our lives. The American public is giving payments daily, even when the government is shutdown, right now. It goes in automatically and goes out automatically. The only thing the Feds do with it is basically process the paperwork.

    But you have to keep trying to insult me and say I`m on welfare.

    Liberal douchebaggery 101: When you`re loosing the argument use insults and condescension.
  79. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 11:28 am
    "The American public signed onto the SS system long before my parents were even born, it`s ingrained into our lives."

    Exactly, and a generation or two from now people will be saying the exact same thing about the ACA.

    If you a$$holes were among the 800,000+ sent home from work and losing money you`d be singing a different tune right now.
  80. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4032 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 11:45 am
    I don`t see how anyone who can`t afford to buy health insurance right now could possibly afford to carry a $5,000 to $10,000 a year deductible on top of a premium under this plan. Am I reading the figures wrong? It makes no sense to me at all and doesn`t strike me as particularly affordable. Also smokers will pay 50% more. What about donut eaters and drinkers, non-exercisers and those who don`t like vegetables?
  81. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4032 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 12:00 pm
    And if you don`t pay/can`t pay your premium or your medical bills before meeting the deductible, being that this is a federally run program, I would assume you will automatically have a lien put on your tax return/paycheck/bank account/house? No?
  82. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Crakr

    "But you have to keep trying to insult me and say I`m on welfare."

    It isn`t an insult. Welfare isn`t a dirty word to me the way it is to you.

    The government forces people to pay ss traxes. They put the money into the system and redistribute it to people on social security. You aren`t living off the money you put in. My guess is that ran out a long time ago. You are living off of other people`s tax money.

    Social Security is a form of welfare. Spin it however you want you live off the government teat. Get a job or live off the government teat. I don`t care which. However every time you bitch about the government I`m going to remind you who takes care of you.
  83. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    @HolyGod: That business you think you made? you didn`t build that! Someone else did...

    So if I crash my car, and collect the insurance, I can only collect as much as I`ve paid over the years? Is that how it goes?

    So an 18 year old who wrecks his $30K car? He only get to collect $2K because that`s all he`s paid into it? Otherwise he`s taking money from someone else, and that`s wrongful?

    Your logic escapes me dude...
  84. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 3:19 pm
    5Cats

    "That business you think you made? you didn`t build that!"

    I didn`t build it by myself. Absolutely.

    "So if I crash my car, and collect the insurance, I can only collect as much as I`ve paid over the years? Is that how it goes?"

    Not sure what point you think you are making. I know how insurance works.

    I said social security is a form of welfare.

    Here is how wikipedia defines welfare:

    "Welfare is the provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid."

    You don`t think social security qualifies?
  85. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6901 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    5Cats

    "That`s wrongful?"

    When did I say it is wrongful? I have no problem with crakr being on welfare. The "wrongful" part to me is his constant insistent that we don`t need the federal government in our lives when he in fact lives off a federal government program.

    So it would be like your 18 year old crashing his car, his insurance paying for it completely, my insurance going up, and him bitching constantly about how bad insurance companies suck and we don`t need them. THAT is wrongful in my opinion.
  86. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    October 2, 2013 at 7:08 pm
    @HolyGod: I do see what you`re saying, but I think you`ve "overgeneralized" a tad too much.

    The 18 Year old who collects his auto insurance MUST NOW love ALL FORMS of insurance and insurance companies?
    He cannot complain about health insurance, because his car insurance was so good to him?

    Just because someone benefits from ONE aspect of the Feds, doesn`t mean they give away their right to complain about OTHER aspects, correct?

    It`s not like the Gov`t is one solid, indivisible unit! There`s 100s of parts to it! @CrakrJak likes some of them, doesn`t like others, just like everyone else, including YOU! :-) And me.

    Correct?
    (I try to not say "right" anymore since some folks use that word as an insult... :-P)

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