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Date: 07/20/13 02:29 PM

41 Responses to Richard Dawkins – The Problem With Religion

  1. Profile photo of OhNoFrodo
    OhNoFrodo Male 30-39
    333 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    Link: Richard Dawkins - The Problem With Religion - Richard Dawkins explains the effect religion has on us and our children.
  2. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6897 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    It is tragic that children are brought up like that.

    If you had lived to 25 and had never heard of god or religion or the bible and I told you about them and that I believed them you would say I was f.ucking retarded.

    However take that same stupidity and drill it into a kid`s brain from the time they are born and all of a sudden it becomes their way of life.

    Sad.
  3. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7749 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    Hear-hear
  4. Profile photo of WorldOfJames
    WorldOfJames Male 18-29
    978 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    spot on
  5. Profile photo of McThstlpnts
    McThstlpnts Female 18-29
    1540 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    I agree with him.
  6. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 4:06 pm
    HG: I see you`re still as condescending as ever.

    Problem is there are many people that grew up atheists, until adulthood, and have rejected it in favor of theism.

    There is an innate longing for God in the vast majority of people. The problem is not religion, the problem is unquestioning fanaticism and that is found not only in theism but atheism as well.

    So please stop belittling believers and claiming superior intellect. You`re inability to do so is what`s really sad.
  7. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    CrakrJak, you`re right. There are fanatics of every stripe and color. The problem is when the religious attempt to impose their beliefs on the non-religious. Terrorism is a result, but not just in the Middle East. Think of the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until only very recently. Bloody Sunday? What of bigotry and discrimination caused by fanaticism in the US, still today? Anti-homosexual legislation being proposed making any from of sex other than between male and female an actual crime! Anti-Islam proposals? Laws on the books (still) preventing atheists from holding public office or serving on juries? Creationism taught in science class by law? Abstinence-only sex ed by law?!

    On the other side of that coin, no laws have EVER been put into place in our country that limit the personal practice of religion (except by Christians against other religions). None. Keep your religion to yourself and most all atheist will ignore you. Don`t, it`ll just get worse.
  8. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6897 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 4:25 pm
    CrakrJak

    "there are many people that grew up atheists, until adulthood, and have rejected it in favor of theism."

    1. TINY minority in comparison to the inverse.
    2. You can grow up atheist and be gullible, simple minded and desperate enough to believe in god.
    3. I said "had never heard of". You know ANYBODY that makes it to 25 without hearing about god?

    "There is an innate longing for God in the vast majority of people."

    No there isn`t. There is an innate longing for ANSWERS and "god" is an all encompassing simple answer for simple minded people.

    It is scary to think our lives are pointless and meaningless, things happen for no reason, and we cease to exist when we die. A magic man who loves us, has a plan, and allows us to live for ever in eternal happiness sure as s.hit seems WONDERFUL.

    So does the idea of a jolly fat man who brings us presents every year.
  9. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 4:27 pm
    Exactly, what @SmagBoy1 said is 100% correct and I couldn`t have said it any better myself.
  10. Profile photo of mykunter
    mykunter Male 40-49
    2424 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    I remember being a young child and attending the Catholic Mass. Doing the sit, stand, kneel routine... eating that awful wafer. All the time wondering `Why on earth do these people believe this stuff. How could anybody actually want to do this every Sunday morning?` I found it all patently absurd at a very young age.

    Needless to say, I went through 12 years of Catholic school. It was a fine education, in spite of the religious part.
  11. Profile photo of utlanning07
    utlanning07 Male 18-29
    61 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 6:18 pm
    CrakrJack: It doesn`t sound like HG is belittling believers to me. It sounds like he`s putting forth a valid argument against faith, which is defined as "Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof."

    And please don`t point to the bible as "proof."

    I agree with HG that people want answers, and religion is the easiest place to "find" them.

    Religion grates on me in the way it puts itself forward as the only answer and everyone else is wrong and you should condemn them, either quietly or loudly depending on preference. Most of the time it lends itself to bigotry and hate. I was brought up Christian and daily see it in my own parents and it makes me sad. They`re nice people but they frown on homosexuality, other religions, and even on my former youth pastor, who had premarital sex with his fiance and was kicked out of the church.

    Teaching children this before the
  12. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    Most of the time you see a video with crazy religious overtones, you`re seeing extremists. Why can`t people separate the two? This guy is expending the same amount of energy and hatred as a zealot would.
    You don`t HAVE to take part in religion, so why does it upset you that others are doing what you don`t HAVE to do?
    Dawkins says it`s a waste to have kids believe in God. He doesn`t have the answers to our origins either, nor will he ever. No one will.
    All of this absurdity and hatred directed towards Christianity and believers, and the gall to act as though you`re not as angry or even more angry than the zealot/extremist. You don`t like it, don`t take part. All that some people have is faith. Think about it, all of this energy and time that this guy wastes trying to prove something doesn`t exist that he doesn`t believe in. Who`s really wasting time? Just believe what you believe and quit worrying about saving religious zealots and extremists.
  13. Profile photo of 747Pilot
    747Pilot Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 6:30 pm
    Xprez +1
  14. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 6:31 pm
    You know what I do when I see something I don`t like? I don`t join in. We`re all stumbling around in the dark here. I just love it when some think they are so far advanced intellectually because someone told them about string theory and they act as though they are avid followers and in the know.
    I guarantee you when Dawkins found out the Easter Bunny wasn`t real, he ruined for every kid in the neighborhood.
  15. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36831 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    If the natives like to rub blue mud into their navels to please the sky gods, who am I to critique that.

    As long as they don`t expect me to do it.
    I leave you alone and your God leaves me alone, that`s my motto.
  16. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 7:31 pm
    Xprez and Gerry, that`s great. Once they quit trying to affect the laws that govern ALL of us, polluting said laws with their religious beliefs, I won`t say a word about them. But the problem is that while we atheist may be fine with saying live and let live, the Christians in this country are trying to force their religion on everyone in the form of laws that govern us all, they`re trying to change our history to suit their current world view and have no desire whatsoever to let us live without their rules. We atheists are in the minority. You shouldn`t be bitching at us to quiet down.
  17. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36831 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Smag - that`s what I meant by "as long as they don`t expect me to"
  18. Profile photo of Magentab0b
    Magentab0b Female 30-39
    1467 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 7:49 pm
    Hahaha he doesn`t even know the difference from Catholics and Protestants. Holy drat that is funny. That negates his credentials as an authority on religion for me. I don`t care how much I agree with everything he said, he comes off as a condescending ass hat.
  19. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 8:06 pm
    Smagboy: "no laws have EVER been put into place in our country that limit the personal practice of religion.."

    No laws passed via legislature, but there are laws, interpreted by judges, that HAVE limited the practice of religion. Sodomy laws were not incepted as anti-homosexual, they were anti-pervert. Proposed laws to keep sharia law out of our courts are not anti-islamic. Also, an atheists refusal to take an oath of office, or for jury duty, because those oaths have the word God in them, is NOT anti-atheist.

    HG: The statistics show otherwise. 92% of the population of the world believe in God or a "universal spirit". Even 21% of atheists and 55% of agnostics believe there is some higher power.

    utlanning: I haven`t seen you comment much, so perhaps you haven`t seen his previous posts on this topic. Trust me, he`s basically called all theists idiots in his passive aggressive way.

  20. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 8:48 pm
    Magentab0b: That *woosh* sound you heard was the point of his logic going over your head. Of course he knows the difference between the two religions, but every sect you talk to will have a different list of how they differ from (and and better than) each other. Had he stated that "transsubstantiation" was THE difference between Protestants and Catholics, the religists would be all over him. If you know anything of religion, you surely know that, but I guess you`re grasping at some way to discredit his logic and truth.
  21. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6897 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 8:56 pm
    Crakr

    "The statistics show otherwise. 92% of the population of the world believe in God or a "universal spirit"."

    What do you mean "show otherwise"? Nothing you said contradicts what I said.

    92% seems high. Pew Research Center lists "none" as 17% of the population. So the number according to that is 83%, not 92%.

    But so what?

    30% of the world is illiterate.
    50% are uneducated.
    70% don`t have internet access.
    Lots think having your picture taken steals your spirit.

    Once again I will state that the number of people who believe a delusion does not increase the validity of the delusion.

    If 99.9999999% of the world believed in santa it wouldn`t sway my personal opinion on the matter.

    There is no arguing that on average religiosity is inversely related to education level and intelligence.
  22. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 9:37 pm
    "On average religiosity is inversely related to education level and intelligence".
    What average? I believe in some sort of supreme being. I can`t say what that is or where it is. How do you think we began? If we have evolved from a simple mass or from a big bang, why are there not humans-to-be in different stages of this process around now? We have no proof of us in lower forms of life either. Have you ever actually read the Big Bang Theory? It sounds about as far-fetched as some claim the bible to be. And they are about as sure. A lot of guessing, speculation, reasonably certain, and we`re not sure(s) in there.
    Siding with people deemed intelligent, doesn`t make YOU, intelligent.
  23. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 9:51 pm
    I have no problem with people that believe or don`t believe. I don`t think anyone should be forced or coerced. Your journey and your fate are your own. I do have a problem with those that make it their life`s work to discredit and bash those that believe either way. And to what end? What do you win in proving what someone believes in, isn`t real? Self-worth? Self-importance? Or is it an incessant need to be right?
    I think you will find that most of the world`s greatest thinkers and philosophers (past and present) were non-violent and non-confrontational and they didn`t incite arguments for the sake of being right.
    To put out a fire, you don`t match it with fire.
  24. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1945 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 10:45 pm
    I find it the epitome of arrogance for any creature of limited intelligence and lifespan...(ie. anybody alive today) to proclaim with absolute certainty that God does not exist. As a species we aren`t yet quite sure what is exactly going on in our own solar system, yet a select few here seem to have the God question nailed down tight.

  25. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3447 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm
    Man who farts in church sits in his own pew.
  26. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 11:13 pm
    This is for those who say atheists are the "intolerant ones" who always start sh*t...


  27. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    July 20, 2013 at 11:21 pm
    In these type of arguments the vast majority of people compare the best of whatever side they`re on with the worst of whatever side they`re opposed. Everything is black or white, don`t see any grey areas. Using the same tired old points they heard from others and parading them as fresh. Very few folks can think or are truly honest with themselves anymore. Be whatever you want to be, but be it yourself and stfu.
  28. Profile photo of SoCal
    SoCal Male 18-29
    650 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 1:29 am
    Religious people are just too scared to try explore different possibilities in their own minds. Where we come from, what is life, is there even meaning to it? The answer could be no.
  29. Profile photo of Jowsh
    Jowsh Male 18-29
    1237 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 2:09 am
    @DromEd The difference between most people with faith and those without is that the latter would change their mind if provided with evidence, and the former don`t. I can`t disprove that there is a purple octopus living on pluto, and I wouldn`t be so arrogant to say I know with absolute certainty that there isn`t - however there is no evidence for it so I don`t believe there is.
  30. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 3:08 am
    No laws passed via legislature, but there are laws, interpreted by judges, that HAVE limited the practice of religion.



    No, CrakJak, there aren`t. Not if you re-insert the word "personal" in front of practice like I did above--which is what my original statement said. Not in the US. At all. Zero. Your right to practice religion as you see fit is legally limited here ONLY by the rights of others (e.g. no human sacrifice, damaging of the property of others, etc.). Otherwise, you have the right to practice your religion however you choose. And ironically, liberals, atheists and non-Christians will almost universally support you. It`s when you start forcing on us that we have a problem. The opposite, by the way, is not true. Discriminatory and bigoted laws are passed all the time forcing Christianity on non-Christian, tax-paying citizens. Frankly, we`re getting tired of it and that`s why you`re hearing more and more about atheism...
  31. Profile photo of KittenCereal
    KittenCereal Female 18-29
    956 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 3:56 am
    "To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don`t grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax, and float.

    But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be.

    In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe, becomes a person who has no faith at all.

    -Alan Watts
  32. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36831 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 6:43 am

    SmagBoy, CrakrJak is right. There are laws that limit religious freedoms. Like limiting marriage to only one wife. and ... and...

    Okay, I can`t think of any others right now. I just woke up, gimmie a break.
  33. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 8:23 am
    Gerry, I stand corrected (kinda). You`re right, laws against polygamy, smoking pot, etc., are all laws that limit religious freedom, and those are ordinances that certain religious folk could claim trample their religious rights.

    But, it`s important to note that I said in my original post in this thread that the few cases that there have been of laws like this have been from Christians passing laws against other religions/sects. Perhaps I should have said Evangelicals?

    Either way, it`s still the religious passing bigoted, discriminatory laws against the everyone else. I for one would be fine with polygamy and pot smoking being legal! Power to the people, Mon!
  34. Profile photo of handimanner
    handimanner Male 60-69
    2095 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 9:12 am
    Religion is about control. Eat this, marry this, tithe this, wear this, think this. It`s amazing that humans continue to follow edicts formulated by ignorant fools in caves.
    My religion dictates that I wipe my ass with a rock in my right hand. All others are infidels who will be killed, God willing.
  35. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 9:47 am
    Xprez: "Have you ever actually read the Big Bang Theory? It sounds ... far-fetched"

    Yes, scientists, mathematicians, physicists and others have had to twist and contort their own individual theories about it into a conglomerate mess called "String Theory" and even that so-called "unified field theory" is being continuously torn apart and reformed. They are up to 11 dimensions now to explain all this mess, and counting.

    All of that still won`t ever answer the most puzzling and enigmatic questions of mankind. Who are we? Why are we here? What`s the meaning of life?

    Choosing to believe that, "...lives are pointless and meaningless, things happen for no reason, and we cease to exist when we die." is bleak and depressing.

    It`s no wonder the suicide rate is highest among atheists all over the world. Atheists also are generally less charitable, do less volunteerism and have much higher rates of depression.
  36. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 10:29 am
    "What`s the meaning of life?"


  37. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6897 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 10:39 am
    ...Continued

    God made everything in a few days and then man was lonely so he took a rib and sand and made woman. But then the woman was bad and ate fruit because of a talking snake so the people got in trouble. Then later all the people were bad so god had a man make a boat and all the kinds of animals in the world got on and the world flooded...

    That sounds like an explanation of "how we got here" as told by a 6 year old during made up story time.

    So yes I`ll take complex and confusing over juvenile and ridiculous.
  38. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6897 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 10:46 am
    Xprez

    "Have you ever actually read the Big Bang Theory? It sounds about as far-fetched as some claim the bible to be."

    It is complex and confusing because the universe and existence are complex and confusing. I don`t know if it is right or even close, but it is very smart people making their very best guess based on the very best information they have.

    I will ALWAYS take that over the recycled fairy tales passed down verbally by illiterate people for generations.
  39. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36831 posts
    July 21, 2013 at 11:02 am

    @ HolyGod - that is a great description of Genesis.

  40. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    July 22, 2013 at 6:09 am

  41. Profile photo of Plangkye
    Plangkye Female 18-29
    258 posts
    July 24, 2013 at 2:04 pm
    I would applaud Richard Dawkins at the drop of a hat if he would quit equating "religion" with "Abrahamic faiths." While I agree with 100% of what he says on scientific topics, as a religious Unitarian Universalist and secular humanist I really find it grating to be lumped together with those who do pass on willful ignorance just because I go to church on sunday morning.

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