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Category: Science
Date: 06/20/13 10:04 AM

52 Responses to White House Petitioned To Ban Creationism [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:04 am
    Link: White House Petitioned To Ban Creationism - Creationism belongs in Sunday School, not Science Class! More on the story in the credits link below.
  2. Profile photo of Naitsirhc88
    Naitsirhc88 Male 18-29
    391 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:09 am
    Sounds good to me
  3. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:23 am
    White House can only ban this in Public School, where it is already illegal to teach creationism.

    Private School is out of its purview. (which will not stop it from trying..it`s already set its sights on the Catholic Church.)
  4. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:28 am
    YEs please ban this poo up
  5. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:29 am
    It`s really depressing that there was need to create a petition in the first place...

    America is really behind the rest of the world in their respect towards science.

    I went to a Catholic highschool and even my biology teacher there explained creationism only as something that exists, not something to be thought of as fact.
  6. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:31 am
    In Canada we teach evolution in science class and creationism in social sciences. Evolution is taught as the best understanding that the scientific method can provide. Creationism is taught as the understanding that people believe on religious grounds and is not limited to the Christian Genesis (we expose kids to multiple faiths and Native beliefs).

    In neither situation is one or the other position declared "wrong" and by teaching both views in appropriate situations students are taught hard science, exposed to a diversity of culture, and how the world works and how a diverse range of beliefs can be accommodated in society without casting negative judgement on others.

    Exposing kids to a diversity of views in context also allows them to make up their own mind about what they believe rather than having someone on one side or the other of an argument tell them how to think.
  7. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:44 am
    Oh, ok. I see. From the Huffington article:

    "And while religious teachings have no place in public school science classrooms according to current federal statutes, not all states are following that line intently. A school district in Ohio attracted controversy last month when it considered a proposal that would allow its schools to discuss controversial topics, including creationism, in its classrooms."
  8. Profile photo of whirlygirl
    whirlygirl Female 30-39
    230 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 10:57 am
    Why is this even a thing???
  9. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:00 am
    As others have pointed out, Superfluous petition is Superfluous.

    Although WH staff, apparently not knowing how teh interwebz work used a ridiculously low numerical threshold for answering any inanity that arrived only half baked on their doorstep. Which is why earlier on the WH had to issue a winking response to another request, for a real working Deathstar (seriously).
  10. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:20 am
    Yes, ban this. The last thing we want is diversity of thought and the ability for the kids to decide for them selves!
  11. Profile photo of Rodin
    Rodin Male 30-39
    692 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:30 am
    @Kilgore -- Where do you live in Canada. In my part of Canada they would never teach creationism as a factual idea.

    Pope John Paul II said that evolution was a scientific fact and if the bible didn`t support it , then we as humans were misinterpreting the scripture. (I`m paraphrasing)
  12. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:31 am
    "The last thing we want is diversity of thought and the ability for the kids to decide for them selves!"

    Creation stems from religion which teaches people to NOT think for themselves, just do as they say.

    The problem here is that those who teach creation deny evolution which is backed by something called EVIDENCE and FACTS. They say ignore the facts and just take our word for it, an invisible sky wizard created everything that exists in the universe and Satan planted dinosaur bones/fossils in the ground to trick us into believing that God didn`t create the Earth in 7 days.
  13. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:51 am
    All religions are just CLUBS and I am not a club joiner
  14. Profile photo of aroc91
    aroc91 Male 18-29
    182 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    @Denogginizer

    "Yes, ban this. The last thing we want is diversity of thought and the ability for the kids to decide for them selves!"

    When one option is patently wrong, it has no business being taught anywhere.



  15. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    @Rodin

    Ontario. But to be clear it`s not taught as fact per se. It`s taught as "It is fact that there are some faiths who believe in creationism." The concept is taught as a theory that some people believe but not as something that is scietific fact.

    I remember doing it when we looked at world cultures. We learned creation stories from different religions and cultures within the frame of `Canada is diverse and there are people living here with these beliefs but we all get along anyways`.

    What I am trying to get at is that it was taught completely separately from evolution and the two were never presented as conflicting. Like math and geography are completely different things.
  16. Profile photo of jkfld
    jkfld Male 30-39
    138 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 12:43 pm
    Signed! It won`t do anything, but at least it lets the administration know there are plenty of Americans who oppose creationist nonsense. Over 12,500 signatures so far.

    Here`s the link if you want to sign it.
  17. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm
    Teaching patent falsehoods should be forbidden in all schools.Imagine the outcry if they started teaching children it is safe to play with electricity? Yet a vast number of people in a first world country refuse to accept the method by which antibiotics are becoming resistant.
  18. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm
    @aroc91
    "When one option is patently wrong, it has no business being taught anywhere."

    If you look at my example in the last post, it isn`t that it has no business being taught anywhere, it is just that it has no business being taught as fact. Personally I think teaching students about as many different belief structures as possible with the goal of encouraging understanding and cultural tolerance is a good idea.

    You can teach that an idea exists without advocating it. Schools teach fascism, communism, anarchism and other systems without pushing those agendas. Maybe it`s my diverse Canadian background talking, but I think the best approach is to teach as many ideas as possible without passing judgement and letting kids decide on thier own. Not letting lobbyists, government or a majority of citizens decide what ideas are "acceptable".

    J.S. Mill`s "On Liberty" says it best, the more ideas circulating, the easier it is to de
  19. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4757 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:28 pm
    Kilgore89,
    You make a lot of sense. There`s nothing wrong with teaching that there are various beliefs about creation and existence (As a child, I learned of the Iriquois belief that the land was carried on a tortoise`s back. I wasn`t taught that this was fact.) as long as that which is taught as "science" is what has been scientifically discovered. Even then it has to explained that our science is incomplete and, sometimes, new information is discovered that adjusts, sometimes significantly, our previous state of knowledge. This is why evolutionary theory is called a theory, not a fact. This is why the theory of gravity is a theory, even though we don`t go floating away. (Avid Creationists *love* to point out that "evolution is only a theory") It can even be briefly presented in a science class: "Some religions teach us that all of existence was created by an all powerful God. Here is what the scientific method has shown us..." I have no problem with
  20. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    madduck-"Teaching patent falsehoods should be forbidden in all schools."

    Then you`d have to quit teaching the following:
    -Columbus did not discover the Earth is Round.
    -Washington didn`t chop down the cherry tree.
    -Anthropogenic Global Warming

    (plus, you have no control over teaching in private schools)
  21. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4757 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Oops!
    "that."
  22. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm
    broizfam-"I learned of the Iriquois belief that the land was carried on a tortoise`s back."

    All Hail the Great A`Tuin.
  23. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36217 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    I signed it.
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36217 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:37 pm
    "White House can only ban this in Public School, where it is already illegal to teach creationism...Private School is out of its purview. (which will not stop it from trying..it`s already set its sights on the Catholic Church"
    Dumbest thing posted.
    Obviously it only applies to schools which receive federal fundng ie public schools. As for the Catholic Church WRONG. Obama said insurance providers MUST provide X services. If any church objects they can get out of the insurance business. What the hell is the Catholic Church doing selling insurance? They need to get back to their traditional roles of oppressing women and molesting little boys.
  25. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:49 pm
    Gerry1of1-"As for the Catholic Church WRONG. Obama said insurance providers MUST provide X services."

    Who the hell said anything about Insurance?

    "If towns remain divided, if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can`t see ourselves in one another and fear and resentment are allowed to harden, that too encourages division and discourages cooperation." Obama, 6/19/2013. (Yup, he just said it`s all the Catholic`s fault.)

    Please try to keep up.

    (Granted, I should have specified Catholic Schools, but as Schools was the subject of the thread I thought it would be self-evident)
  26. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4757 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 2:56 pm
    MeGrendel,
    Holy sh*t! Someone else who`s read Terry Pratchett? Introduced my daughter to the Discworld books, she loves them.

    Gerry,
    "What the hell is the Catholic Church doing selling insurance? They need to get back to their traditional roles of oppressing women and molesting little boys."
    That was damn funny, man!
  27. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:03 pm
    broizfam-"Someone else who`s read Terry Pratchett?"

    Anyone who hasn`t read at least ONE Discworld novel is leading a deprived life. His writing reminds me too much of Harry Harrison`s.

    Gerry1of1-"need to get back to their traditional roles of oppressing women and molesting little boys."

    That, unfortunately, is entirely too accurate.
  28. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:09 pm
    Grendel for the love of Hannah, (Incidentally who is this Hannah? someone I should know about?) that`s from a speech given in
    Northern Ireland.

    Scraping the bottom of the barrel much?
  29. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:14 pm
    I do so love to see Da Chief speak in front of foreign audiences, lets you see what he`s like away from home. But seriously, this isn`t even remotely controversial in any way.
  30. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    QueenZira-"that`s from a speech given in Northern Ireland."

    And what does that have to do with it? Is he not president when he`s in Northern Ireland? Are we supposed to go, `shhh...that wasn`t meant for us.`?
  31. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    Part the second, ---> *it`s not controversial in any way*.

    What makes you think he`s got this big hate on for Catholics particularly if he managed to carry Catholics in the last election?
  32. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:23 pm
    I`m still curious about "Hannah" person though... ;-)
  33. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    Quick question: who`s the bigger fool?

    The fool or the fool who tries to intervene?
  34. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    @Cajun

    I vote the biggest fool is the fool who attempts to tell a third party fool to legislate what the first fool should be told to think.

    See what I did there? Goes both ways... like a bisexual.
  35. Profile photo of InTheNameOf
    InTheNameOf Male 30-39
    335 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 4:40 pm
    Creationism is a fine myth...no reason to remove it from general education....it should be part of the cultural anthrpology class. (anthroplogy is a science class, right? so everybody is happy?)
  36. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36217 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    MeGrendel, "Who the hell said anything about Insurance?"
    When Fox News was claiming Obama`s War on the Catholic Church it was because of ObamaCAre. The Church provides insurance but does not want to provide birth control as ordered by ObamaCare. ie Provide the same as every other insurance company or get out of the business.

    So to answer your question, when you mentioned it you brought the topic up.
  37. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36217 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    BTW, it`s not illegal to teach Creationism. In Texas, the stopped teaching evolution and teach Intelligent Design instead.
  38. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 8:14 pm
    ID ruled creationism and therefore illegal to teach.
  39. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 8:30 pm
    Not in schools. Indeed, religious education classes in schools should challenge religions as a flawed and unsupported piece of historical fiction like the Aboriginal Dream-Time stories
  40. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    June 20, 2013 at 11:28 pm
    I have a better idea: ban public education.
  41. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 1:40 am
    Right, Ollie. Only the rich should be educated, huh?

    Doesn`t matter that public education is one of the major contributing factors that made this the greatest country in the world.

    It doesn`t matter that EVERY Economist will tell you that an educated population is the best investment with the highest rate of return that a country can make.

    How phuquing big of an imbecile are you exactly?
    It`s obvious *you* slept through he majority of *your* education.
  42. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 4:14 am
    Errrrmmmm ... what does this have to do with the WH? Education policy is a state matter.
  43. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 4:15 am
    OldOllie

    Too sensible a plan for any government.
  44. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 4:18 am
    Gerry1of1

    You make a very good impression of an arrogant, self-righteous wanker.

    " ie Provide the same as every other insurance company or get out of the business."

    So innovation is not allowed? Everyone in every business has to provide exactly the same as every competitor?

    Ironically in this case you are demanding that insurance provide something that is not insurance! It is cover for elective medication.

    Utterly ridiculous.
  45. Profile photo of NNoamfer
    NNoamfer Male 18-29
    1216 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 9:20 am
    OldOllie, because your public education sucks balls doesn`t mean it should be banned, it should be improved. The rest of the world goes by public education.

    And sleepyhallow, your country isn`t the greatest in the world. Your sh`itty education system is one reason why it isn`t, so get the fu`ck over yourself, nationalistic ass`hole.
  46. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36217 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 10:00 am

    @ Random - a wanker can still be correct.
    "So innovation is not allowed?"
    Yes it is, but you have to provide a minimum federal standard. Do you call it "innovation" when a car manufacturer doesn`t include safety belts?

    And for the record, I do not think any insurance company should have to provide birth control, but since they do we can`t give a pass to the church. if they want to go into business they have to pick one that does not conflict with their beliefs instead of expecting the guv`ment to change the rules just for them.
  47. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 10:46 am
    what was that explanation again, the explanation between fact and faith. you can believe in either but wether or not you believe in facts dont matter, it wont change them. for example, one may not believe in gravity but jumping out of a plane will show you that fact will trump faith. or, one may not believe in evolution but if you have a resistant bug in your system, antibiotics may not fight it, because it just may have turned resistant to that.

    The worst part is that there is no faith that outright denies any of that, its humans that have twisted thair faith to make other `believes` sem to be opposite of theirs.. but again, facts arent believe, they arent faiths.

    So yeah, teach both science and religions to children, but most important, make them realize the difference between both. One may still believe in a heaven and hell as a peron, whilst knowing it isnt as literal as some seem to preach
  48. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 12:17 pm
    Gerry1of1-"So to answer your question, when you mentioned it you brought the topic up. "

    Well, seeing as when I mentioned it I did not have in mind, nor mention, insurance nor Obamacare, and as seeing what is meant by what I say is not determined by what Fox News claims, then when I mentioned it I did not bring up insurance or Obamacare.

    Got a few more loops you want to jump through in an attempt to link your incorrect inferrance to what was writtin?

    Sleepyhallow-"It doesn`t matter that EVERY Economist will tell you that an educated population"

    I thought we were talking about Public education. Public education has nothing to do with an educated population.
  49. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 12:59 pm
    To all you f***tard liberal haters, I never said we should eliminate pubic FUNDING for education, just eliminate government owned and operated schools. Private schools are proven to provide a MUCH higher quality education at a MUCH lower cost than government schools, particularly unionized schools in Democrat-controlled districts.

    We should fund parents, not unionized liberal idiots.
  50. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 7:01 pm
    "Ham also told CP that he considered the petition "frivolous" and "silly," as well as showcasing an intolerance against Christians who want to teach biblical creation in a private setting."

    Public school is not a "private setting" (that would be private school ... think about it for a minute). I would not support a ban on creationism/ID in private schools. That`s their choice to teach it, and parents choice to send their kids there. Public school? ... abso-dratin-lutely not. Science is not 100% fact, it`s theories that we continue to explore evidence that proves AND disproves those theories. Creationism and ID say "cuz the Bible says so ... period ... so shut up", which is not substantial evidence to call anything factual to even show up in a public school classroom. Keep it in your private schools, keep it in your home, your church, your Sunday School ... if you want your kids to learn it and they`re NOT, you`ve got no one to
  51. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    June 21, 2013 at 7:03 pm
    ... blame but yourself.
  52. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 22, 2013 at 10:51 am
    Runemang-"Public school is not a "private setting""

    No, but Private school IS a "private setting".

    And this petittion is not differentiating between the two. As it is already against the law to teach creationism in public school, this petition is not aimed at public school

    Technically, the governemnt has no say so in the teachings at private and religious school.

    But, obviously, this administration doesn`t really care if it oversteps those boundaries or even breaks the law.

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