Tipping In The US: Should It Be Banned?

Submitted by: LemonCurry 3 years ago

We"ve all had our share of disagreements over how much to tip. Has a new age finally arrived?
There are 56 comments:
Male 1,104
interestingly, japan is taking the lead again.

and honestly, if no tipping works fine here in this country (japan), where you get great service at the exact price indicated on the menu, why can`t it work elsewhere?
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Male 14,330
]quote]It`s a way of keeping the peasants in check by ensuring that they can`t rely on having even the minimum necessary to live on[/quote]

Said the pleb who pays tax to support royalty that`s pretty funny! Good servers at a good establishment make above living wage I was one in college. If you want to see how motivated minimum wage workers are look at McDonalds employees is that what you`d want in a server?
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Male 14,330
What I see is cheap f**ks making excuses to be cheap f**ks AKA European...
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Male 7,347
lauriloo-"Never had any kids, never even got married so if I was paid less, it`s truly BS."

Kudos for the hard work, but there are many reasons for differences in pay, both ways.

You have to take into account hard work, ability, overtime, sickness, seniority, personality, education, plus much more.

In the past I`ve worked the same job-type for two different companies: Chemist.

At one company there were 10 of us with identical jobs. Everyone; male, female, black, white, korean etc, got paid the exact same base wage. I, on average, made $20,000 more a year than one of the ladies simply because she never worked overtime and I never turned it down. (and she thought that this was somehow `unfair`.)

At the other there were 8 of us with identical jobs. Everyone made a different base wage, but it was based specifically on seniority. Most of the ladies made more than I did, a few made less.

NONE of the differences were based on
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Male 702
HAd the same thing happen to me in New York. After five minutes of unpleasant noise amounting to my tip being `not enough` I insisted that they give me my 15% back.

Oh yeah, this was at a burger joint with table service for (non-alcoholic) drinks only.

You want a tip? Earn it.
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Female 1,803
well, since no one is supposed to talk about how much they make, it`s pretty hard for me to know for sure. All I know is, I worked AT LEAST as hard as any man. Never had any kids, never even got married so if I was paid less, it`s truly BS.
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Male 7,347
lauriloo-"I knew stupid engineers "

It`s the rare engineer that`s not stupid, but that`s another discussion.

lauriloo-"since they were male, I`m pretty sure they made more than I for the same job"

If you can prove that, you have a lawsuit.

If you can`t, you have biased speculation. (I`m guessin the latter).

And don`t trot out that `women make 73 cent for every dollar men make` fallacy. That`s a flawed comparrison that does not compare men and women in the same job, nor does it take into account the different job types and choices the sexes then to take.

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Female 1,803
"In order to pay it`s entire staff what you consider a `living wage`, the prices would increase to the point where customers would rather go TO the buffet, and the restaurant would close. "

Seems to work fine everywhere else in the world... Since I always pay about 20% tip, raising the meal price 15% overall with no tipping would be a great deal for me. The only people who might complain are the cheap bastards who don`t tip and they shouldn`t go to nice restaurants if they are that cheap.

"I know one restaurant that pays all of it`s staff a living wage, plus they get tips. The service is exceptional, the atmosphere great and the food equisite. Of course, the bill ends up being approximately $150-$200 per person"

Prove that extra cost is due to extra wages and not just glamour pricing.
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Female 1,803
"It`s just like any job: If you`re a good electrical engineer, you make better money than someone who doesn`t. "

Not necessarily. When I was a chemical engineer, I knew stupid engineers and, since they were male, I`m pretty sure they made more than I for the same job. There are MANY reasons people make more money that have nothing to do with their skills.
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Male 7,347
lauriloo-"Bringing the people their food in a sit-down restaurant isn`t a crucial hard-work job deserving of a living wage?"

If you`re good at serving people, it``s very possible to make a living wage as waitstaff.

If you`re not, you`re probably not going to.

It`s just like any job: If you`re a good electrical engineer, you make better money than someone who doesn`t.

laurilool-"If they don`t want to pay a living wage they should make it a buffet."

You miss the point. In order to pay it`s entire staff what you consider a `living wage`, the prices would increase to the point where customers would rather go TO the buffet, and the restaurant would close.

I know one restaurant that pays all of it`s staff a living wage, plus they get tips. The service is exceptional, the atmosphere great and the food equisite. Of course, the bill ends up being approximately $150-$200 per person and we only eat there on VERY spe
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Female 1,803
"Sorry, not all jobs contribute enough to the profits of the business to warrent a living wage. "

Seriously? Bringing the people their food in a sit-down restaurant isn`t a crucial hard-work job deserving of a living wage? If they don`t want to pay a living wage they should make it a buffet.
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Male 7,347
madduck-"pay people a living wage FFS"

Sorry, not all jobs contribute enough to the profits of the business to warrent a living wage.

I realize it`s a radical concept, but you actually have to EARN your wages.
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Male 7,347
dm2754-"who tips Taxis?"

Me. At a minimum I round up the next $5 bill. More if he does a good job (nice trip, no crappy driving).

jaysingrimm-" I work as a doorman"

From my viewpoint:
Opening a door does not warrent a tip.
Hailing me a cap warrents a tip.
Answering any questions (i.e. `Hey, where`s a good italian place?`) warrents a tip.

Basically, anything over and above performing the basic duties of your job probably warrents a tip. The more you go our of your way, and the nicer you are, the more generous I will be.
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Male 164
why? I mean if the judges and politicians can get bribes, why can`t teh average waitress?
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Male 2,841
Not banned, simply discouraged. It`s a stupid practice that hurts everybody.
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Female 7,836
Why ban it- pay people a living wage FFS... then if a customer gets outstanding service they can tip. Coming from a country where we do not tip everyone it is confusing and difficult. Between tipping and bloody sales tax I don`t spend a great deal when I am over there because is is too complicated to bother with.
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Male 2,342
I work as a doorman at a chain of popular restaurants/bars. There once was a time (long ago) when people would actually tip a doorman for things like opening doors, hailing taxis and such. While I have been tipped a handful of times over my 12 year career, it just doesn`t happen so often nowadays. The establishment does obviously pay a reasonable wage with this in mind, but then I`m only scheduled an average of 18 hours a week! I`ve worked hard to provide excellent service, my team having won an award from a popular website. We have kept the establishments safe from liability. We have had an outstanding record/relationship with the governing agencies. We have kept the people safe...and yet, fighting for a raise is always a tedious experience.

Taking away tips from service staff will NOT make things better. Restaurants WILL cut hours. They WILL raise prices of food and beverages to compensate. Did you know it`s common for service staff to tip out the house?
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Male 3,578
who tips Taxis?
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Male 2,436
Have you people really thought about the consequences of banning tipping?

Tipping is a tax shelter for the servers. They are `paid` less than minimum wage. They are `required` to report their tip income for tax purposes. I guarantee 99% of servers report just enough to hit minimum wage. The rest is tax free.

So, banning tipping would mean the employer has to make up the difference, which really means you, the consumer, makes up the difference. PLUS the tax amount on the servers FULL income. You will either pay more (i.e. bill + tip + server`s income tax), or the server makes less. NOBODY WINS!

...except the tax man. Don`t ban tipping.
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Male 689
let them make the same as everyone else. no one should be penalized for having a bad day. if they suck at their job then people will definitely let management know not to mention secret shoppers. im not saying that they should not get tips, if they do a fantastic job show them. the best argument i herd was from the oatmeal, theoatmeal.com/comics/tipping_tooting
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Male 1,252
Banning is retarded... but then again so are mandatory tips... no tips for anyone unless its warranted.
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Male 3,894
MeGrendel, you`re misinterpreting my point. I was arguing against people who implied that a tip is inherently demeaning. I was saying that the general etiquette surrounding a tip is designed so that it doesn`t rub the "class issue" in anybody`s face. I realize there are extenuating circumstances to this, as you`ve outlined, which don`t necessarily make anybody feel bad. I`m just saying that it`s done the way it is for a reason.
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Male 7,347
DuckBoy87-"75% of the time..."

I have no set system. I am a great tipper. The 20% is a reference point only. I`ve given a $20 tip on a $19 bill. I`ve given a $100 tip on a $200 bill. It all depends if the waitperson made our visit worth it.

On the other hand, in a case of horrible service I`ve left 2 cents. I also got a cook fired for attempting to serve me re-heated food and being an asswipe when I confronted him about it.
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Male 7,347
DrProfessor-"You`re not supposed to be demeaning about the giving of a tip."

Giving, or receiving, a tip is in no way demeaning. If a wait-person thinks it is, they have the wrong attitude for the job and need to find another.

DrProfessor-"That way you`re not making a show of giving it to them and emphasizing that you`re in a position of power."

There have been times where I personally tracked down a waitress and gave her a tip. Why? Because she was not `our` waitress, but served us because `our` waitress was goofing off. If I had left it on the table, `our` waitress would have gotten it, not the person who made the visit pleasurable. PLUS, I pointed out to the management that `our` waitress did a crappy job and in no way could lay claim to ANY of the tip I gave the other girl.
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Male 3,415
75% of the time, I tip between 10-15% (depending on how well the rounding works out) for a satisfactory service.
14% of the time, I tip 15-25% for an excellent service.

There have been only once or twice where I went to a restaurant and the service was so poor that I tipped the 0% to whatever pocket change I`d be getting back.

Tipping can be stupid and unnecessary, but I like to inform my server that they performed poorly.
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Male 1,063
I tend bar for a living, if someone is a lousy tipper or just doesn`t tip, I don`t care. It`s my own damn fault for having a job where I rely on the kindness of strangers.
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Male 3,894
Picking over the comments
-Pizza delivery boys make minimum wage plus tip. Again, take away the tip and no employer will raise their wage.

-You`re not supposed to be demeaning about the giving of a tip. That`s why it`s left on the table, or included with the total sum you pay for your service. That way you`re not making a show of giving it to them and emphasizing that you`re in a position of power. You leave it somewhere they can find and go "Aww, that was nice! My work is appreciated."
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Female 1,803
"people would b*tch and moan about how food suddenly got more expensive."

Initially, yes, but as with all things, they would get used to it and things would be back to normal. Everyone loves to b!tch about change but they get over it when it`s something they really want.
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Male 5,564
I never thought about, but can understand, the point about creating a class distinction with tipping, but someone who takes a job as a waiter, for instance, should expect to be in a position of serving, no? One problem with tipping, of course, is that it`s the server who is punished by a poor tip even when the problem might be a slow or over-burdened restaurant chef, or a wait staff that`s too small on a busy night when someone, perhaps, has called in sick. In this country waitstaff depends on tips to make their income because they are 1)paid a lower minimum in expectation of tips and 2) taxed on the amount of income the government expects them to make with tips. Refusing to tip a good waiter, then, is tantamount to punishment, regardless of good performance. It`s unfair. Could certainly stand some adjustment, at least.
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Male 3,894
If they switch servers to wage earning, they will be minimum wage. The restaurant won`t want to pay them any more than that. They`ll end up taking home less than they would with tips--trust me, as a bus boy who made minimum wage and was envious of the tip-earners.

Sure, you get those occasional bad tippers, and they`re pooty, but overall servers make out like bandits compared to other jobs requiring a similar amount of skill and effort.

And, as a side note, if we did away with tipping, people would b*tch and moan about how food suddenly got more expensive.
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Male 7,347
lauriloo-"But if they both started at a living wage for their area"

Minimum wage =/= Living Wage. Not all jobs warrent a living wage.

lauriloo-getting crappy tips isn`t necessarily a direct correlation to the quality of the person doing the job, as you alluded to."

I didn`t allude to it, I stated it flat out. For one transaction, there may be no direct correlation. Overall, over a long period of time and a great many people, the correlation approaches certainty.

Another correlation is that if you work at an establishment that is a crappy restaurant, has crappy cooks and in a crappy location, you`re probably a crappy wait-person.
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Female 1,803
But if they both started at a living wage for their area, it could be a *little* more fair. Sure, there are perks to certain jobs over others within the same industry but the disparity doesn`t have to be THAT large. My main point was, getting crappy tips isn`t necessarily a direct correlation to the quality of the person doing the job, as you alluded to.
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Male 7,347
lauriloo-"All a hot chick nearly naked in Vegas has to do is pour a few shots in a nice club VIP and take home hundreds. A plain woman in a podunk town on her feet all day carrying heavy platters would make much less."

Two points:
1) Even if you eliminate tips, this situation would still occur. A hot chick nearly naked in Vegas ...take home hundreds. A plain woman in a podunk town ...would make much less
2) I must have missed the change in reality where life became fair.
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Female 1,803
But you could be getting crappy tips because the cooks are crappy or you are in a crappy restaurant in a crappy location. There are quite a few reasons you could be an excellent server but get crappy tips. You could say change jobs but it`s not always that easy when you have kids to house/feed and a single mother. All a hot chick nearly naked in Vegas has to do is pour a few shots in a nice club VIP and take home hundreds. A plain woman in a podunk town on her feet all day carrying heavy platters would make much less.
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Male 7,347
It usually boils down to: If you`re getting crappy tips, you`re doing a crappy job.

Here`s a clue: Get a job where your income does not depend on the kindness of strangers.

Try this: Put all wait staff on minimum wage and have a NO TIP policy. See how long before the wait-staff starts screaming.

When I worked such jobs, my tips ALWAYS rusulted in a wage significantly above minimum.
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Female 1,803
"There`s also the fact that a-holes get their stuff cheaper while good kind folks have to pay more. That`s just drated up, if something, it should be otherway around."

See also: pirating
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Male 914
Restaurants would love to see tipping banned. Tipping puts power in the hands of consumers. It means that people have the flexibility to decide how much they pay for a meal based on how satisfied they are.

And the larger the tipping custom for the area you live in, the more power you have. Just don`t abuse that power by leaving an inadequate tip for a satisfactory experience.
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Male 1,421
Mandatory tipping is stupid. you tip when you`ve received exceptional, out of the normal operations service. Not when someone is doing what he/she is suppose to do. There a wages, you know salary to compensate for the work, paid by the employer. Always found this to be messed up..

There`s also the fact that a-holes get their stuff cheaper while good kind folks have to pay more. That`s just drated up, if something, it should be otherway around.
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Male 2
Whew! I thought they was talkin` "Cow-Tippin`"! I guess I`m safe for now. :D
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Female 6,381
I do not tip when I order a coffee & cookie in a shop, and I don`t tip when I order take out at the sushi joint across the street. As far as I`m concerned, I`M the one doing the legwork (and even bussing my mug and plate in most cafes now), and I don`t see where a tip is earned. When the roomie and I have sit-down sushi once a month, I add at least 15% to the bill.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Banned? Have fun with that what`s it with Brits and banning things they don`t understand?[/quote]

I understand the custom perfectly. It`s a way of keeping the peasants in check by ensuring that they can`t rely on having even the minimum necessary to live on, regardless of how hard they work. In some places, it`s also a way for businesses to take money from their peasants directly by deducting their tips from what little they do get paid.

It`s a great way to oppress the peasants without attracting the legal and social disapproval that other methods (e.g. feudalism, indentured servitude) would attract nowadays.
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"SO piecework and commision don`t exsist there?"

Neither of those involve a customer paying an employee directly, circumventing the employer.

"Alot more than leaving a friggen tip....."

What? How...I don`t...I genuinely don`t grasp how you think "get bill, pay what it says, complain if service was bad" is more complicated than tipping.

@CrakrJak

"I`ve delivered pizza for a living and lived off the tips. Banning tipping would not be a good move, imho."

Why? Surely that job would have been more stable for you if you were paid a reliable wage, and your incentive to work hard was not to cause complaints about you to reach your boss? That`s how it works in other jobs. Why should jobs like delivering pizzas be special?
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Female 1,803
"I`ve delivered pizza for a living and lived off the tips. Banning tipping would not be a good move, imho."

Wouldn`t you rather have a normal, reliable wage than relying on the goodness of strangers?
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Male 17,512
I`ve delivered pizza for a living and lived off the tips. Banning tipping would not be a good move, imho.
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Male 3,285
Mandatory tipping is the excuse terrible business`s give in order not to give the worker a fair and decent wage. American really needs to make the minimum wage a LEGAL requirement, instead of pandering to the whims of stupid business concerns.
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Male 14,330
[quote]JUST LIKE IT IS WITH EVERY OTHER BUSINESS! [/quote]

SO piecework and commision don`t exsist there?
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Male 14,330
Tips are to reward good service so if you get bad service yes that may be grounds to not but most times it`s someone being a cheap f**khead. Either way you should not be going back to said place after doing such.
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Male 14,330
[quote]How difficult is that?[/quote]

Alot more than leaving a friggen tip.....
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Female 1,803
I agree with the "class" reference in the article. One of the reasons tipping makes me uncomfortable is that it makes the two of us distinctly unequal in status. Always seemed weird that I would have a nice chat with my hair stylist, almost as though we were friends, and then I would hand them a ten because they had "served" me. blech. I am in a service industry and don`t get tips. But I often do get free products (aka SWAG) from the event or a nice team dinner to show their appreciation so that`s kind of a tip but not degrading. I certainly don`t expect it to happen but it`s nice when it does. Doesn`t change my work performance any since I don`t know whether it will happen.
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Male 2,850
Plus, ultimately, if you feel your service was bad enough that you shouldn`t have to pay for it, you should be complaining to the management, not leaving a passive-aggressive lack of payment!

Roll the cost of service into the proper bill. Then you go ahead and pay it if the service was delivered to your satisfaction, or complain to management and dispute the bill if the service was not delivered to your satisfaction.

JUST LIKE IT IS WITH EVERY OTHER BUSINESS!

How difficult is that?
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

Here`s why, because it seems that the very waiters themselves (this particular one at any rate) confirm that tipping has no relation to their job performance, and EVERYTHING to do with keeping them on an uncertain income which is terrible for stability and quality of life:

"If you don`t tip, I can`t pay the rent. But the reality is you can work hard and get no tips and do nothing and get good tips."
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Female 1,803
I usually tip $1 every time I get a drink from a bar. Maybe I go to nicer bars than you ;)
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Male 149
In the article where it gives the list of proper tip amounts it says $1 - 2 per drink for bartenders. That`s insane! Even if I drink $50 worth of beer they aren`t getting more than $5 for popping tops or pouring beer in a mug.
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Male 14,774
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Male 14,330
Banned? Have fun with that what`s it with Brits and banning things they don`t understand?
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Male 1,104
Link: Tipping In The US: Should It Be Banned? [Rate Link] - We`ve all had our share of disagreements over how much to tip. Has a new age finally arrived?
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