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Date: 06/11/13 07:18 PM

50 Responses to Stand Your Ground Law – Not So Black & White[Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 6:50 pm
    Link: Stand Your Ground Law - Not So Black & White - The stories of two very different shooters show the inequality behind this law. Who goes to jail and who doesn`t?
  2. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    I could dig around and find a black person who should`ve been arrested, but wasn`t...and compare it to a white person who was arrested, but shouldn`t have been...

    But no one would care about that.
  3. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 7:48 pm
    Doesn`t help Hispanics either, apparently. George Zimmerman.
  4. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 8:27 pm
    It`s a "case by case" sort of law. Of COURSE there`s going to be "problems" with it! But think of the problems caused by -not- having it, like in Canada...

    In the case of Zimmerman? It WAS applied properly the first time, then "over ruled" by POLITICS.

    Personally? I`d prefer if my guilt or innocence did NOT depend on politics... you know?
  5. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    Zimmerman chose not to seek protection under stand your ground
  6. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    Yet I can give at least 50 examples of the opposite being true - Whites constantly being charged for "hate" crimes, when blacks do not under identical or even far, far worse circumstances... Sorry, but if you think that sharing a single story, a single instance with very different circumstances is an example of "inequality behind a law" then you`re just looking to draw a particular conclusion rather than looking for truth.
  7. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    Isn`t it wonderful when the media tries to sway public opinion with spurious statistics and (once again) misrepresenting Zimmerman`s ethnicity via claims of racism elsewhere.

    Also, these same reporters ignore the hundreds of other black-on-black crimes and hispanic-on-hispanic crimes, to focus on and magnify cross racial incidents. This type of divisive coverage only serves to heighten racial tensions and enrich these social exacerbators wallets.
  8. Profile photo of handimanner
    handimanner Male 60-69
    2095 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:22 pm
    Prison statistics prove a disproportionate number of blacks jailed longer for crimes black to white than vice versa. Also drug sentences are higher for blacks - crack vs powdered cocaine sentencing. We still in de judicial swamp homies.
  9. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    So, I guess the lesson here is NEVER fire a warning shot. Shoot to kill; then shoot again to make sure.
  10. Profile photo of Daegog
    Daegog Male 30-39
    1370 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    Please tell me where are all these whites getting charged with hate crimes when they are not infact hate crimes?

    If ya have to go to a ayran nation website to get the info.. well its just the media bias of course.

    But please i would love to see some of these cases.
  11. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 9:56 pm
    Zimmerman chose not to seek protection under stand your ground
    *sigh*
    @Draculya: The DA (and other police branches) decided to NOT charge Z with any crime because of the "SyG" laws. Ok?
    This was overturned by politics and racism.
    He chose to not pursue (at this time!) the technical issue of the SyG laws because all the politics involved could easily sway any Judge to "err on the side of caution" and NOT replay the "Rodney King" thing... ok?

    Thus: The law DID protect him. Until racism and politics got involved, then it becomes a "technical issue" and to say it`s "murky" would be an understatement.

    SO: Why is Zimmerman "white" but Obama is "black"?
    Hummm?

    Anyone from the IAB Liberal Brigade have an answer for THAT question?
    (Hint: both men are "50/50")
  12. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 10:10 pm
    I thought Zimmerman was Hispanic?

    Anyway, SYG doesn`t really apply to him since he was actively being attacked after retreating back to his car. While getting his head slammed against the pavement by the large, strong, fully-grown man known as Trayvon Martin, who attacked without provocation and with intent to kill, Zimmerman managed to save his own life by shooting the attacking thug. Not sure where SYG enters into it.
  13. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 10:41 pm
    Meh. One example of miscarried justice, backed by eyebrow-raising but ultimately useless statistics, leading to a sweeping generalization.

    Don`t get me wrong, I wouldn`t be surprised to find that juries are in fact prejudiced against black defendants and victims, especially in the south...but this article in no way proves that.

    Those raw percentages give you utterly no background to the cases and rulings, and just because they tend to turn out a certain way doesn`t necessarily mean that they were unfairly done. You`re given that impression by first being exposed to one incident in which that was certainly the case. This is bad, sensationalist journalism and even if its aim is to fight racism, certainly a worthy goal, I can`t condone it. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable and fair arguments to be made on the subject--why resort to something like this?
  14. Profile photo of MelCervini
    MelCervini Female 50-59
    2239 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 10:47 pm
    looks like those tougher gun control laws are JUST what you wanted!
  15. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 11:28 pm
    Black guy gets beaten up in a white neighborhood = hate crime.

    White guy gets beaten up in a black neighborhood = that dumb bastard should have know better than to go down there.
  16. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 11:32 pm
    When a white person kills a black person and claims "Stand you Ground", they get off 79% of the time.

    When a Black person kills a whiter person and claims "Stand you Ground", they get off 3% of the time.

    But it`s not racially biased in any way.
    ::facepalm::
  17. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 11:37 pm
    If Zimmerman had shot Martin from 6` away, he would have had to claim SYG to have a chance of beating the rap. However, since Zimmerman was flat on his back, and Martin was on top of him repeatedly bashing his head into a concrete sidewalk, SYG doesn`t apply; it`s simple self-defense. It`s also false arrest and malicious prosecution, both of which are actionable torts. Ka-CHING!!!
  18. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 11, 2013 at 11:41 pm
    SH, that wouldn`t have anything to do with the fact that blacks commit a HUGELY disproportionate number of interracial violent crimes, now, would it?
  19. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7751 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 12:49 am
    USA...USA...USA
  20. Profile photo of DinVen
    DinVen Male 30-39
    390 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 2:42 am
    That is a startling before and after image!
  21. Profile photo of New_Guy
    New_Guy Male 30-39
    406 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 3:02 am
    Hey OldOllie might there be a relationship whit that statistic and a tendency of white people getting of easy, what was it, o`yea 79% of the time? Naa it`s properly because of the abnormal tendency of violence and lawlessness relative to the darkness of skin color...
  22. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 3:55 am
    "Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty. Only 59 percent of those who killed a white person got off. The Urban Institute determined that in “stand your ground” states, when white shooters kill black victims, 34 percent of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable. When black shooters kill white victims only 3 percent of the deaths are ruled justifiable."

    Holy sheepcrap 73% vs. 3%

    And just the other day I got to talk to a black guy in the street, who said he hardly ever felt treated in a racist fashion.
  23. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 3:57 am
    Ah, I see i misread, its In fact "only" 34%...
  24. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 4:26 am
    SleepyHollow - I find it interesting you made your post, claimed racism, but left out the official stats of:

    * Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
    * When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Interracial Crime

    * Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
    * Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
    * Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit
  25. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 4:28 am
    But yes Sleepy Hollow, let`s sit back and claim blacks are the "victims" - Ignore all the violence against whites, at EXPONENTIALLY higher numbers, and whine about being a "victim." I`m sure all those murdered people deserved it due to being white right? ::: TRIPLE FACEPALM
  26. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 5:47 am
    @Daegog
    Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom
    Happened the same time your angle Travon was shot not a hate crime somehow and also no media attention wonder why...... Shall I keep going cause it`s gonna be a long list?
  27. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 5:48 am
    Wasn`t the ladys story on here before and I could`ve sworn there a big detail left out of this.

  28. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 6:01 am
    Marissa Alexanders case details. There`s more to it then what the PC brigade want you to belive. Like how she went to the abusers house with the gun.....
  29. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 6:05 am
    Hey you american spying pieces of crap, try to justify this one.. Man, your country is crooked, corrupt and just evil. Stories like this make me angry, so much injustice.
  30. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 7:06 am
  31. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Yes, the courts have failed to apply the law without bias.
    That does not make Stand-Your-Ground laws bad.
    It makes the courts bad.
  32. Profile photo of paco664
    paco664 Male 40-49
    159 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 7:13 am
    she was convicted in 12mins.....

    there was no race discrimination in it.... someone needs to check facts before screaming "racism"...
  33. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 9:01 am
    creamk, LOL. Not other country is as scrutinized as our country. I`m sure your country would not hold up to this scrutiny. You think Europe is free??? And what is so evil? Inventing the airplane, the cell phone, and computer? The camera? Creating so much wealth that people risk their lives coming here? Being the first democracy and having a revolution that initiated the era of Democracy?

    Black people commit crimes at a way higher rate than other groups of people, even other minorities, especially when the crimes are interracial. And I know, that`s cwazy! In NYC 95% of gun crime is among Blacks and Hispanics. That`s 5% for Arabs, Whites, and Asians. More people believe in Reptilian overlords than that. And that`s why there`s a difference. Whites, Asians, and Hispanics are much more likely to justly claim stand your ground. It`s just a fact.

    You seem to forget we have a black president, too. So unjust, we are! If only the Europeans could enlighten us.
  34. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 9:42 am
    So, I guess the lesson here is NEVER fire a warning shot. Shoot to kill; then shoot again to make sure.

    I think the lesson is more like "don`t take a gun to the home of someone you`ve been convicted of domestic violence offences against and shoot at them and two children".

    Yes, the reality is that different to the spin. The police do look for things such as where the bullet holes are and there`s a difference between the ceiling and adult chest height on the wall.
  35. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 10:15 am
    @Angilion

    She was also ordered by a judge not to go there.
  36. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 10:23 am
    56% of gun homocides are commited by a demographic that makes up 13% of the US population....

  37. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 10:35 am
    McGovern, it`s amazing that it`s so taboo to talk about that fact.
  38. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 10:45 am
    She violated a judge`s order.

    In actuality, her defenders should have used Self Defense, not SYG. She may have gotten off.
  39. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 10:51 am
    @Andrew155

    Facts... THAT`S RACIST!
  40. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 11:03 am
    Inventing the airplane, the cell phone, and computer? The camera? Creating so much wealth that people risk their lives coming here? Being the first democracy and having a revolution that initiated the era of Democracy?

    The USA didn`t invent the computer. Many countries generate so much wealth that people risk their lives to get there. The USA wasn`t the first democracy(*).

    You`re gilding the lily, which undermines your point.

    * If you`re using universal adult suffrage as the definition, then the first country was New Zealand. If you`re using any sort of formal voting by the people, then it goes back at least as far as ancient Greece (which is the root of the word `democracy` - rule by demos, the people).
  41. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 11:20 am
    The United States` revolution initiated the age of modern Democracy. That`s a fact. After the revolution, waves of revolutions and independence movements swept the world. It`s unfortunate that many of them, like in Latin America, were unable to keep their Democracy. Greece`s Democracy, which is widely considered a failure, is irrelevant to the modern Democratic era. You know that, too. You`re just quibbling.

    As for the computer, the United States was instrumental in its creation. I realize that everyone has a different definition of what the first computer was due to national biases, but the US is totally up there.

    And who cares that there are other countries that generate mass amounts of wealth? Does that make them evil, too? Not evil? You`re quibbling, again. The US took the poorest people from Europe, and made them wealthy. Now it`s doing the same with
  42. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 11:30 am
    Latin America and Asia. As for New Zealand being the first Democracy, you`re totally quibbling, again. Yes, Switzerland didn`t become a Democracy until 1971.

    The United States has advanced the human condition more than any other nation. That`s a fact.

    More American inventions:

    Bifocals
    Fire Hydrant
    Light bulbs
    Microwaves
    Refrigerator
    The Pill
    Solar cell
    Skyscrapers
    Assembly Line
    Interchangeable parts
    Spacecrafts that happen to go to the moon
    Internet (not www)
  43. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 11:42 am
    Here`s some more from a list I found:

    GPS
    Personal Computer
    Reusable spacecraft
    Cell Phones
    CD
    Lasers
    Integrated Circuit
    Nylon
    Traffic Lights
    Sunglasses
    Suspension bridges
    Air conditioning
    Zipper

    And don`t` forget the Green Revolution that saved millions if not billions of lives.

    Yeah, America sucks and is evil. We`d be better of without it. France or New Zealand totally would`ve come up with this stuff. And they totally would`ve liberated Europe from Fascism and Communism, too.
  44. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    And they totally would`ve liberated Europe from Fascism and Communism, too.

    Ah right. You`re a deluded nationalist. No point replying to you. Happy fantasies! The complexity of reality is much harder to deal with.

    I am curious though - are you aware that there is some ground between "evil" and "wondrous hero and source of all good things in existence"?
  45. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4888 posts
    June 13, 2013 at 8:04 am
    I know this sounds like an argument of semantics but, really, I think the caption was wrongly stated. It`s really not so much a case of inequality behind the law as much as inequality in the application of the law, sometimes by law enforcement officials and sometimes by juries. The fact that people are imperfect doesn`t make a law bad. I, personally, don`t like guns but I can`t fault a person whose home, workplace, etc., is being dangerously invaded for standing his/her ground and defending that space and the others in it, even with deadly force.
  46. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4888 posts
    June 13, 2013 at 8:16 am
    "Wasn`t the ladys story on here before and I could`ve sworn there a big detail left out of this."
    Can`t help thinking your right but it`s tough to say since the story in the link is pretty choppily written. It says "she came back with a gun". If it means she came back from the garage with the gun she was already carrying, that`s one thing. But if it means she left the residence, went home, got her gun and came back that`s a completely different event in that it indicates an intent to use the weapon. At least, that`s how I would see it if I were on that jury.
  47. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33085 posts
    June 13, 2013 at 10:56 pm
    @Angilion: In between Hero and Evil???
    Victim?

    LOLZ! Hope you see that. :-P

    Just because there`s a "lot of grey" doesn`t mean black and white don`t exist...
  48. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    August 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    But yes Sleepy Hollow, let`s sit back and claim blacks are the "victims" - Ignore all the violence against whites, at EXPONENTIALLY higher numbers, and whine about being a "victim." I`m sure all those murdered people deserved it due to being white right? ::: TRIPLE FACEPALM
  49. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    August 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    SleepyHollow - I find it interesting you made your post, claimed racism, but left out the official stats of:

    * Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
    * When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Interracial Crime

    * Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
    * Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
    * Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit
  50. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    August 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    Yet I can give at least 50 examples of the opposite being true - Whites constantly being charged for "hate" crimes, when blacks do not under identical or even far, far worse circumstances... Sorry, but if you think that sharing a single story, a single instance with very different circumstances is an example of "inequality behind a law" then you`re just looking to draw a particular conclusion rather than looking for truth.

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