Stand Your Ground Law - Not So Black & White[Pic+]

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 3 years ago

The stories of two very different shooters show the inequality behind this law. Who goes to jail and who doesn"t?
There are 50 comments:
Male 317
But yes Sleepy Hollow, let`s sit back and claim blacks are the "victims" - Ignore all the violence against whites, at EXPONENTIALLY higher numbers, and whine about being a "victim." I`m sure all those murdered people deserved it due to being white right? ::: TRIPLE FACEPALM
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Male 317
SleepyHollow - I find it interesting you made your post, claimed racism, but left out the official stats of:

* Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
* When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

Interracial Crime

* Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit
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Male 317
Yet I can give at least 50 examples of the opposite being true - Whites constantly being charged for "hate" crimes, when blacks do not under identical or even far, far worse circumstances... Sorry, but if you think that sharing a single story, a single instance with very different circumstances is an example of "inequality behind a law" then you`re just looking to draw a particular conclusion rather than looking for truth.
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Male 36,509
@Angilion: In between Hero and Evil???
Victim?

LOLZ! Hope you see that. :-P

Just because there`s a "lot of grey" doesn`t mean black and white don`t exist...
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Male 5,568
"Wasn`t the ladys story on here before and I could`ve sworn there a big detail left out of this."
Can`t help thinking your right but it`s tough to say since the story in the link is pretty choppily written. It says "she came back with a gun". If it means she came back from the garage with the gun she was already carrying, that`s one thing. But if it means she left the residence, went home, got her gun and came back that`s a completely different event in that it indicates an intent to use the weapon. At least, that`s how I would see it if I were on that jury.
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Male 5,568
I know this sounds like an argument of semantics but, really, I think the caption was wrongly stated. It`s really not so much a case of inequality behind the law as much as inequality in the application of the law, sometimes by law enforcement officials and sometimes by juries. The fact that people are imperfect doesn`t make a law bad. I, personally, don`t like guns but I can`t fault a person whose home, workplace, etc., is being dangerously invaded for standing his/her ground and defending that space and the others in it, even with deadly force.
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Male 12,365
[quote]And they totally would`ve liberated Europe from Fascism and Communism, too.[/quote]

Ah right. You`re a deluded nationalist. No point replying to you. Happy fantasies! The complexity of reality is much harder to deal with.

I am curious though - are you aware that there is some ground between "evil" and "wondrous hero and source of all good things in existence"?
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Male 2,578
Here`s some more from a list I found:

GPS
Personal Computer
Reusable spacecraft
Cell Phones
CD
Lasers
Integrated Circuit
Nylon
Traffic Lights
Sunglasses
Suspension bridges
Air conditioning
Zipper

And don`t` forget the Green Revolution that saved millions if not billions of lives.

Yeah, America sucks and is evil. We`d be better of without it. France or New Zealand totally would`ve come up with this stuff. And they totally would`ve liberated Europe from Fascism and Communism, too.
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Male 2,578
Latin America and Asia. As for New Zealand being the first Democracy, you`re totally quibbling, again. Yes, Switzerland didn`t become a Democracy until 1971.

The United States has advanced the human condition more than any other nation. That`s a fact.

More American inventions:

Bifocals
Fire Hydrant
Light bulbs
Microwaves
Refrigerator
The Pill
Solar cell
Skyscrapers
Assembly Line
Interchangeable parts
Spacecrafts that happen to go to the moon
Internet (not www)
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Male 2,578
The United States` revolution initiated the age of modern Democracy. That`s a fact. After the revolution, waves of revolutions and independence movements swept the world. It`s unfortunate that many of them, like in Latin America, were unable to keep their Democracy. Greece`s Democracy, which is widely considered a failure, is irrelevant to the modern Democratic era. You know that, too. You`re just quibbling.

As for the computer, the United States was instrumental in its creation. I realize that everyone has a different definition of what the first computer was due to national biases, but the US is totally up there.

And who cares that there are other countries that generate mass amounts of wealth? Does that make them evil, too? Not evil? You`re quibbling, again. The US took the poorest people from Europe, and made them wealthy. Now it`s doing the same with
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Male 12,365
[quote]Inventing the airplane, the cell phone, and computer? The camera? Creating so much wealth that people risk their lives coming here? Being the first democracy and having a revolution that initiated the era of Democracy?[/quote]

The USA didn`t invent the computer. Many countries generate so much wealth that people risk their lives to get there. The USA wasn`t the first democracy(*).

You`re gilding the lily, which undermines your point.

* If you`re using universal adult suffrage as the definition, then the first country was New Zealand. If you`re using any sort of formal voting by the people, then it goes back at least as far as ancient Greece (which is the root of the word `democracy` - rule by demos, the people).
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Male 14,330
@Andrew155

Facts... THAT`S RACIST!
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Male 10,339
She violated a judge`s order.

In actuality, her defenders should have used Self Defense, not SYG. She may have gotten off.
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Male 2,578
McGovern, it`s amazing that it`s so taboo to talk about that fact.
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Male 14,330
56% of gun homocides are commited by a demographic that makes up 13% of the US population....

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Male 14,330
@Angilion

She was also ordered by a judge not to go there.
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Male 12,365
[quote]So, I guess the lesson here is NEVER fire a warning shot. Shoot to kill; then shoot again to make sure.[/quote]

I think the lesson is more like "don`t take a gun to the home of someone you`ve been convicted of domestic violence offences against and shoot at them and two children".

Yes, the reality is that different to the spin. The police do look for things such as where the bullet holes are and there`s a difference between the ceiling and adult chest height on the wall.
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Male 2,578
creamk, LOL. Not other country is as scrutinized as our country. I`m sure your country would not hold up to this scrutiny. You think Europe is free??? And what is so evil? Inventing the airplane, the cell phone, and computer? The camera? Creating so much wealth that people risk their lives coming here? Being the first democracy and having a revolution that initiated the era of Democracy?

Black people commit crimes at a way higher rate than other groups of people, even other minorities, especially when the crimes are interracial. And I know, that`s cwazy! In NYC 95% of gun crime is among Blacks and Hispanics. That`s 5% for Arabs, Whites, and Asians. More people believe in Reptilian overlords than that. And that`s why there`s a difference. Whites, Asians, and Hispanics are much more likely to justly claim stand your ground. It`s just a fact.

You seem to forget we have a black president, too. So unjust, we are! If only the Europeans could enlighten us.
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Male 159
she was convicted in 12mins.....

there was no race discrimination in it.... someone needs to check facts before screaming "racism"...
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Male 37,889

Yes, the courts have failed to apply the law without bias.
That does not make Stand-Your-Ground laws bad.
It makes the courts bad.
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Male 14,330
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Male 1,421
Hey you american spying pieces of crap, try to justify this one.. Man, your country is crooked, corrupt and just evil. Stories like this make me angry, so much injustice.
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Male 14,330
Marissa Alexanders case details. There`s more to it then what the PC brigade want you to belive. Like how she went to the abusers house with the gun.....
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Male 14,330
Wasn`t the ladys story on here before and I could`ve sworn there a big detail left out of this.

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Male 14,330
@Daegog
Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom
Happened the same time your angle Travon was shot not a hate crime somehow and also no media attention wonder why...... Shall I keep going cause it`s gonna be a long list?
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Male 317
But yes Sleepy Hollow, let`s sit back and claim blacks are the "victims" - Ignore all the violence against whites, at EXPONENTIALLY higher numbers, and whine about being a "victim." I`m sure all those murdered people deserved it due to being white right? ::: TRIPLE FACEPALM
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Male 317
SleepyHollow - I find it interesting you made your post, claimed racism, but left out the official stats of:

* Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
* When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

Interracial Crime

* Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit
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Male 275
Ah, I see i misread, its In fact "only" 34%...
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Male 275
"Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty. Only 59 percent of those who killed a white person got off. The Urban Institute determined that in “stand your ground” states, when white shooters kill black victims, 34 percent of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable. When black shooters kill white victims only 3 percent of the deaths are ruled justifiable."

Holy sheepcrap 73% vs. 3%

And just the other day I got to talk to a black guy in the street, who said he hardly ever felt treated in a racist fashion.
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Male 406
Hey OldOllie might there be a relationship whit that statistic and a tendency of white people getting of easy, what was it, o`yea 79% of the time? Naa it`s properly because of the abnormal tendency of violence and lawlessness relative to the darkness of skin color...
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Male 390
That is a startling before and after image!
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Male 7,775
USA...USA...USA
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Male 15,832
SH, that wouldn`t have anything to do with the fact that blacks commit a HUGELY disproportionate number of interracial violent crimes, now, would it?
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Male 15,832
If Zimmerman had shot Martin from 6` away, he would have had to claim SYG to have a chance of beating the rap. However, since Zimmerman was flat on his back, and Martin was on top of him repeatedly bashing his head into a concrete sidewalk, SYG doesn`t apply; it`s simple self-defense. It`s also false arrest and malicious prosecution, both of which are actionable torts. Ka-CHING!!!
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Male 1,983
When a white person kills a black person and claims "Stand you Ground", they get off 79% of the time.

When a Black person kills a whiter person and claims "Stand you Ground", they get off 3% of the time.

But it`s not racially biased in any way.
::facepalm::
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Male 15,832
Black guy gets beaten up in a white neighborhood = hate crime.

White guy gets beaten up in a black neighborhood = that dumb bastard should have know better than to go down there.
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Female 3,184
looks like those tougher gun control laws are JUST what you wanted!
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Male 3,894
Meh. One example of miscarried justice, backed by eyebrow-raising but ultimately useless statistics, leading to a sweeping generalization.

Don`t get me wrong, I wouldn`t be surprised to find that juries are in fact prejudiced against black defendants and victims, especially in the south...but this article in no way proves that.

Those raw percentages give you utterly no background to the cases and rulings, and just because they tend to turn out a certain way doesn`t necessarily mean that they were unfairly done. You`re given that impression by first being exposed to one incident in which that was certainly the case. This is bad, sensationalist journalism and even if its aim is to fight racism, certainly a worthy goal, I can`t condone it. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable and fair arguments to be made on the subject--why resort to something like this?
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Male 1,059
I thought Zimmerman was Hispanic?

Anyway, SYG doesn`t really apply to him since he was actively being attacked after retreating back to his car. While getting his head slammed against the pavement by the large, strong, fully-grown man known as Trayvon Martin, who attacked without provocation and with intent to kill, Zimmerman managed to save his own life by shooting the attacking thug. Not sure where SYG enters into it.
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Male 36,509
[quote]Zimmerman chose not to seek protection under stand your ground[/quote]
*sigh*
@Draculya: The DA (and other police branches) decided to NOT charge Z with any crime because of the "SyG" laws. Ok?
This was overturned by politics and racism.
He chose to not pursue (at this time!) the technical issue of the SyG laws because all the politics involved could easily sway any Judge to "err on the side of caution" and NOT replay the "Rodney King" thing... ok?

Thus: The law DID protect him. Until racism and politics got involved, then it becomes a "technical issue" and to say it`s "murky" would be an understatement.

SO: Why is Zimmerman "white" but Obama is "black"?
Hummm?

Anyone from the IAB Liberal Brigade have an answer for THAT question?
(Hint: both men are "50/50")
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Male 1,382
Please tell me where are all these whites getting charged with hate crimes when they are not infact hate crimes?

If ya have to go to a ayran nation website to get the info.. well its just the media bias of course.

But please i would love to see some of these cases.
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Male 15,832
So, I guess the lesson here is NEVER fire a warning shot. Shoot to kill; then shoot again to make sure.
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Male 2,096
Prison statistics prove a disproportionate number of blacks jailed longer for crimes black to white than vice versa. Also drug sentences are higher for blacks - crack vs powdered cocaine sentencing. We still in de judicial swamp homies.
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Male 17,512
Isn`t it wonderful when the media tries to sway public opinion with spurious statistics and (once again) misrepresenting Zimmerman`s ethnicity via claims of racism elsewhere.

Also, these same reporters ignore the hundreds of other black-on-black crimes and hispanic-on-hispanic crimes, to focus on and magnify cross racial incidents. This type of divisive coverage only serves to heighten racial tensions and enrich these social exacerbators wallets.
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Male 317
Yet I can give at least 50 examples of the opposite being true - Whites constantly being charged for "hate" crimes, when blacks do not under identical or even far, far worse circumstances... Sorry, but if you think that sharing a single story, a single instance with very different circumstances is an example of "inequality behind a law" then you`re just looking to draw a particular conclusion rather than looking for truth.
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Male 14,775
Zimmerman chose not to seek protection under stand your ground
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Male 36,509
It`s a "case by case" sort of law. Of COURSE there`s going to be "problems" with it! But think of the problems caused by -not- having it, like in Canada...

In the case of Zimmerman? It WAS applied properly the first time, then "over ruled" by POLITICS.

Personally? I`d prefer if my guilt or innocence did NOT depend on politics... you know?
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Male 2,578
Doesn`t help Hispanics either, apparently. George Zimmerman.
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Male 4,893

I could dig around and find a black person who should`ve been arrested, but wasn`t...and compare it to a white person who was arrested, but shouldn`t have been...

But no one would care about that.
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Female 8,044
Link: Stand Your Ground Law - Not So Black & White[Pic+] [Rate Link] - The stories of two very different shooters show the inequality behind this law. Who goes to jail and who doesn`t?
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