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Date: 06/23/13 05:10 PM

91 Responses to Robber Shot As People Line Up For Lebron Shoes

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 5:15 pm
    Link: Robber Shot As People Line Up For Lebron Shoes - People waiting for a chance to get Lebron James` newly released shoes encountered a pick pocket. A man in line shot him.
  2. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    And they say women go crazy over shoes. Pfft. I mean, the guy who shot him was still in line when they were doing the news, for crying out loud!
  3. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm
    So it`s the death penalty for petty theft no, is it ?..

    I may be alone on this, but that`s messed up.
  4. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6781 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Self defense? Really? Are you allowed to kill someone in defense of property? I thought you could only kill someone in defense of bodily harm or in protection of others?
  5. Profile photo of handyman0205
    handyman0205 Male 60-69
    134 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 5:49 pm
    The morons lining up for these shoes should be..... bet you thought I was gonna say shot.... taken to a shrink.
  6. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3907 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    armed vigilantes. Cowboys and Indians folks
  7. Profile photo of danagamer
    danagamer Male 30-39
    701 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    they look like ski boots
  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36690 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Good for him.
    Part of why people turn to crime is because nothing bad can happen to the. We aren`t allowed to defend ourselves. Worst they get is some time in jail {college}.

    If people knew they stood a good chance of getting their ass shot they would be less likely to commit the crime.

    I`m Gerry Higgins and I approve of Defensive Gun Laws.
  9. Profile photo of nettech98
    nettech98 Male 50-59
    1043 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 6:28 pm
    "Are you allowed to kill someone in defense of property?"

    I don`t know about Georgia, but Texas... YES
  10. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6781 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm
    nettech98

    "I don`t know about Georgia, but Texas... YES"

    Where is the line? Someone steals a loaf of bred out of your cart in the grocery store parking lot and you can pull out a shotgun and kill them as they run away?

  11. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 7:19 pm
    Kain1-"So it`s the death penalty for petty theft no, is it ?.."

    Please stop using that asanine leap of `logic`.

    The `Death Penalty` is a legal process whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime.

    THIS, on the other hand, was a person who WILLINGLY put his life on the line to illegally obtain the property of others.

    He lost the bet.

    The Death Penalty was not involved.

    For future reference: You do dumb things, you may end up dead.

    HolyGod-"Where is the line?"

    That line is that thing the criminal crossed when he decided to victimize an innocent person.

    SHOULD you get shot for stealing bread? No.
    COULD you get shot for stealing bread? Damn skippy.

    The CRIMINAL made a CHOICE to put his life on the line.
  12. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 7:41 pm
    Yup, it`s not called death penalty. It`s execution.

    Anyone who feels that these actions were in any way balanced, needs to check in to the nearest mental facility this instant. Your humanity card is expired and you see no worth in life. Let`s see the next time you jaywalk or drive over the speed limit and someone puts a bullet to your brain. Property is not equal to life, no matter how high the value of property is. If you think otherwise, you values are material goods first, humanlife second. Again, check in.
  13. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm
    If a person comes to you with a knife, then he is prepared to die. In that instance, shooting may be the only option. The thing is, it should always be the LAST option, not the first.
  14. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    "are you allowed to kill someone in defense of property?"

    The report says that "one of the victims in line actually had his own handgun..."

    Although vague, it sounds like the criminal pulled his own gun. If the criminal pulled a weapon he deserves to be shot. The hero was not simply defending shoes, he was defending his right to exist, along with the rights of everyone else there. IF the criminal pulled a weapon. Idiots here try to make it sound like he was shot over a pair of shoes. More like the criminal gave his life for a pair of shoes, the victims took a life in defense of their right to live and not be a helpless victim killed by a POS.
  15. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    I just read at least 7 different news articles about this. The first 6 told the same exact story...exactly the same, word for word. The 7th was posted as an update which says the robber pulled a gun while trying to rob everyone.

    If that is true, I call pussified bull s#it on this news reporting. Weather the robber pulled a weapon or not makes all the difference.

    Pussies pushing their anti gun agenda.
  16. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6781 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 8:44 pm
    turdburglar

    "If that is true, I call pussified bull s#it on this news reporting. Weather the robber pulled a weapon or not makes all the difference."

    Oh. ABSOLUTELY. If the guy pulled a gun or even a knife I fully support the other man shooting him. The news report made it seem like he just got shot for picking a pocket which I find abhorrent, as well as the comments on here cheering him on.
  17. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 9:09 pm
    CreamK-" It`s execution."

    Some would argue it`s justice.

    CreamK-"Anyone who feels that these actions were in any way balanced"

    Reality check: "Life is not/has never been/will never be fair."

    When you try to rob others, there is no `fair`. There is not `balance`. There is reality.

    Reality is that the person you pull a knife on may have a gun. Reality is that any criminal may face someone who doesn`t care what `fair` is. (and why is it that only the victim is held to the `fair` and `balanced` ideal?)

    `Fair` is for the courts. Reality is that you can get killed.

    CreamK-"Property is not equal to life"

    The criminal thought the property was worth his life, as he`s the one who WILLINGLY put his life on the line.

    CreamK-"Again, check in."

    Life is not fair. Get used to it and quit demanding that it be so. You have no say-so in the matter.
  18. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14626 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 9:43 pm
    I was going to break it down, but I don`t need to analyse this. I feel sorry for the people that would wish to justify this and what it means about the way they perceive their society and their morality.
  19. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36690 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    I reserve the right to protect myself and mine, and my property. If you try to take it from me, on your own head be the consequence.

    I believe in only one law, one sin; Do not harm others without justification.
  20. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 10:01 pm
    Black? Surprised? NO !!!
  21. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6781 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 11:28 pm
    Megrendel and Gerry1of1

    If the guy pulled a knife or a gun and got shot then bravo to the shooter. Someone threatens your life you have every right to take theirs in protection if left no other option.

    However when I watched the story I pictured a guy picking pockets and then running away and getting shot as it never once mentioned him having a weapon. If that is the case, and it was simple petty larceny do you still believe the guy had the right to shoot and kill him over what probably amounted to less than $300?
  22. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 11:33 pm
    MEGrendel: You are truly despicable humanbeing. Not suitable for living among any thinking person as you may just pull a gun when someone steps on your lawn. Killing someone for petty crime is "justice" for you. So what about killing for jaywalking? Killing for shoplifting a 1$ candybar?

    How old are you? Have you seen another humanbeing, talk to them, walked a mile in their shoes? Nope, because everyone is perfect, like you, nobody ever does something he wishes later that he didn`t too, like.. you? You have never broken the law in any from, ever?. There is no limit in your way thinking. No second chances. No mercy.

    Not only criminals face those who have different concept of fair. Regular, law abiding citizens face them also. A minor altercation and you`re quickly at this position too. Getting shot for peanuts. It`s way worse then eye-for-an-eye; you`re view is life-for-papercut.

    You sir, need grow some balls and start caring for others.
  23. Profile photo of mytbozak
    mytbozak Male 30-39
    489 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 11:43 pm
    you pu$$ies shut up. the guy had been robbing people and needed to die. human life aint so special. i $hit on your hollier than thou attitudes.
  24. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm
    Even if this was a murdercase, still no one, i repeat NO ONE on this earth is justified for killing the murderer. Not even when he`s killed and raped 1000 little children. There is no situation here killing someone is justified. Self-defense, yes, you are preventing a death and is then allowed to step beyond the primary principles.. But if there`s no life-or-death situation, you are not allowed to take someones life. No matter how much it hurts, right to life is much greater than any of our little rules in any book.

    The more i think of this, Grendel must be trolling. Can anyone have such low moral code in real life and continue to function? If this is true, i`m not kidding about mental illness. Regular humanbeing feels empathy and has some sense of justice. If you talk to some professional, you get the same answer:"there`s something wrong with you"

    I honestly don`t want to live on the same planet as you, this is making me sick.
  25. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 23, 2013 at 11:56 pm
    WTF? I honestly don`t want to live anymore. If this is what constitutes as justice in USA, i will become your enemy, this instant. This is worse than fundamentalist islam, they at least chop the hands from thieves and let the person live...

    Hmm, does the fact that the person who died was black have more to do with your attitudes than what he actually did?

    Not one of you trolls have given any limit of when is it not ok to kill someone. Shoplifting? Jaywalking? Playing music too loud? Being gay? One of those was once a crime and it`s not anymore. Just where do you draw the line? Property, if so, what amount is worthy of a death penalty? If it`s zero then i can most likely think 5 reasons to kill you this instant. All of them are not fair for you. Because you have never been a kid and broke something that wasn`t yours. Leave without tipping? It`s death for you.

    This is so absurd.. You can`t change the law without having criminal intent until the law is changed.
  26. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 12:07 am
    Let`s spin this around. What if the guy who got shot had mental illness? Something that prevented from him seeing what is right and what is wrong. Is it still ok to shoot him if he was sick? Nobody on that line knew any of that. Even if we agree that death penalty for petty crime is alright, it still doesn`t justify execution on the street without any trial. We might as well abolish all rule and give out to anarchy.
  27. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
    @MeGrendel: Leap of logic ?!

    "No charges will be filed" - Meaning that the state condones the use of deadly force in response to petty theft. I don`t see much distinction between the two.

    this probably just boils down to our wildly different views on the value of human life, where i think all human life has more value than material things, and you apparently don`t.
  28. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14626 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 1:04 am
    I noticed the masterful troll-spike by @mytbozak. Way to troll, buddy.
  29. Profile photo of Daegog
    Daegog Male 30-39
    1360 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 2:39 am
    The shooter was threatened. He fired at his assailant. Tons of witnesses, case closed.

    The man (and several) were being robbed, how are you defending the robber?

    Lets say he did have a mental illness, does that give him carte blanche to rape as well?

    If he did have a mental illness, that`s a shame that he had no one close enough to find help for him, but out on the streets robbing people is not a good therapy treatment (although a bullet to the ass works wonders).
  30. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 2:40 am
    @CreamK
    Good Luck convincing MeGrentroll that his views might be a little.. off.

    But as kain stated, the state condones killing of this sort. It is real hard to put a line after something like this.
    The line seems real Close to eating that peanut in a supermarket, the store owner shooting you when you leave the store without paying for it.
    Sure it sounds absurd, but so does shooting someone trying to rob someone of a few pennies. At least so us Europeans.

    Dont get me wrong, these people were well within their right to defend themselves. But killing the poor bastard? Havent you guys watched Movies? shoot the kneecaps or shoulder or something.
  31. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 2:50 am
    @Kainm
    I doubt he feels that way about life and materials. Im sure however that he feels that: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."
    =)
  32. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 3:34 am
    Thought Experiment:

    You are caught eating a peanut without intent of paying. Store owner catches you and pulls a gun on you. You do the same and shoot him.
    Self defence or murder?

    You clearly defended yourself from an assailant.
  33. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 3:54 am
    Guy with CCW waiting in line, not assaulted at all shoots unarmed guy acting shifty, no charges filed, local press barely notices.

    Guy with CCW on neighborhood watch, gets assaulted, shoots unarmed guy, not only are charges filed but guy and his family receive death threats, protests, but also gets excoriated in nationwide press.

    Both cases had eyewitnesses, both claim self-defense. But one gets falsely claimed as "racial profiling" and all the muckrakers and spin doctors crawl out of their holes to mislead the public.
  34. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 4:00 am
    A thought occured to me.

    Aplying the notion of justice and self defence.
    How is "defending" yourself from a guy With a gun, different from "defending" Yourself (morals beliefs and social Conventions) from an outside force? aka. western society vs. middleeastern society.
    Its just as much about being threatened, and seeing no other way of defending yourself.
    Odd coincidence of similarity of opinions.

    Alright back to work :)
  35. Profile photo of Wendypants
    Wendypants Female 30-39
    2420 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 5:00 am
    Essersmith, remember this happened in the USA so if the shooter had left the guy alive the shooter would probably be sued up the wazoo; it`s well known that you shoot to kill to avoid lawsuits in the USA.
    Americans, is this not so?
  36. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 5:03 am
    Even in Germany, a European nation for those with terrible geographical knowledge, the man pulling a weapon would have made the entire thing count as a defensive act. The only real issue would have been that a CCW license is rather hard to come by here. Even someone simply picking your pocket you have every right to grab them and hold them till the cops arrive or you are able to turn them over to private security if it is in a shopping center or some other such area. Self defense is a given right in nearly any society even on the European continent.

    So do take that with a pinch of salt CreamK. Mental illness is not a justification to threaten others with a weapon nor is it a reason that others must allow their lives to be threatened or taken. While human life is indeed valuable and not to be taken so lightly, accepting that self preservation and in this case as others are around, the greater good, are compelling causes to have done what this man did would be reasonable.
  37. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 5:03 am
    Also worthy of note, any nearby police on our continent would have likely shot this man as well once he pulled a weapon on the crowd. I take it that would have been fully unjustified as well? As to execution, the man was shot in the act of pulling a weapon on the crowd, not after surrendering with his hands bound.
    And to anarchy, absolute pacisim and unwillingness to stand up for onesself or their fellow man can also be the start of anarchy, as those with the will to may simply do as they please.
    In the future please apply logic and common sense to arguements instead of vaguely emotional statements and attempts to twist a scenario out of perspective, it belittles you.
  38. Profile photo of Wendypants
    Wendypants Female 30-39
    2420 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 5:10 am
    CreamK, you had me agreeing until `still no one, i repeat NO ONE on this earth is justified for killing the murderer. Not even when he`s killed and raped 1000 little children`
    Someone comes at me and I know for sure that he`s done such heinous crimes as you`ve described... yeah, I`d feel totally vindicated with killing him, or her. Someone like that has shown by their actions that they don`t deserve to be alive... by your own reasoning.
  39. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 5:53 am
    "The group was waiting in line early Saturday morning to buy the LeBron X Denim sneakers when a man approached with a gun and attempted to rob them, according to police."

    Thats form the article I read about this. Its sad for the mans family that he`s dead, but if you pull a gun on someone and they shoot you, its your own fault.

    By the way, those shoes look ridiculous.
  40. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 6:21 am
    Draculya-"I feel sorry for the people that would wish to justify this"

    No one`s justifying it. Just pointing out the reality that criminals run the risk of getting killed.

    But then, it`s not a requirment that we go `Gasp! That`s just not fair.`.

    Draculya-"it was simple petty larceny do you still believe the guy had the right to shoot and kill him over what probably amounted to less than $300"

    Who mentioned rights? I mentioned REALITY. The reality is that if you steal something from someone, you run the risk of getting shot.

    Smart people wouldn`t risk that. Sometimes stupidity is lethal.
  41. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 6:22 am
    CreamK-"You are truly despicable humanbeing."

    And you`re an idiot.

    CreamK-"you may just pull a gun when someone steps on your lawn"

    Never said that. Have no problem someone stepping on my lawn. I don`t even get upset when the neighbor`s dog takes a dump on it or if the neighborhood kids play football on it.

    CreamK-"So what about killing for jaywalking?"

    Please pay careful attention as you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not say he SHOULD have been shot. I pointed out the reality that he took the CHANCE of being shot when he decided that he had the right to other peoples` property.

    The fact that I fail to feel saddened by an idiot basically committing suicide is irrelevent. (I mean, come on, what are the chances of someone having a gun in a line for Labron shoes?)
  42. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 6:31 am
    CreamK-"There is no limit in your way thinking. No second chances. No mercy."

    I`m all for second chances. I`m all for mercy. But I also realize that if you try to rob someone, sometimes you don`t GET a second chance. It`s the chance a criminal willingly takes.

    CreamK-" You sir, need grow some balls and start caring for others."

    My balls are not in question, and you have no idea how much I care for others. (I`d be happy to compare how many wheelchair ramps we`ve built, how many natural disasters we`ve pickup up after, how much volunteer work we do..I`m sure you`d end up looking silly.) But I`m talking about REALITY here. Piss someone off, you run the risk of getting shot. So try to not piss people off. Is it fair? No. But it IS the reality.
  43. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 6:32 am
    CreamK-"NO ONE on this earth is justified for killing the murderer."

    This is where you demonstrate that you`re a naive idealogue with opinions not based anywhere close to reality.

    CreamK-"I honestly don`t want to live anymore."

    Feel free to rob the next Labron line. Or commit suicide. You`re under the delusion that somene cares.

    CreamK-"This is worse than fundamentalist islam"

    So, you`re all for treating women as property and killing homosexuals? You can now be ignored.

    CreamK-"does the fact that the person who died was black have more to do with your attitudes"

    Ahh, sad attempt to pull race into it. Clue: He`s dead because he was an idiot. I didn`t now if he was black or white or yellow, nor do I care.

    CreamK-"Is it still ok to shoot him if he was sick"

    The people who he is robbing do not have that information, nor can they take it into consideration
  44. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 6:32 am
    Kain1-"@MeGrendel: Leap of logic ?!"

    Please specify what you consider a leap of logic.
  45. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 7:10 am
    Wow this thread shows all who the massive pussies are......
  46. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 7:35 am
    There is some strange crap going on here with the way this story is being reported.

    The news report says "Pickpocket". That implies that a guy was sneaking around and picking pockets and another guy shot him for it. That is NOT a reason to shoot someone and the shooter should go to jail. However, if the story is that a guy came up in the line and held everyone at gun point, demanding their money, then shooting him becomes a justified act. It is self defense and is using equal force to stop the crime.
  47. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 7:53 am
    I guess many of you read my posts asa "he was allowed to rob and people are not allowed to defend" No, ffs, tackle and pin him to the ground.

    There were no mention of robber having a gun.

    Mental illness example by me: look above, it doesn`t aquit him. It poses a serious question, if a person doesn`t know what he is doing is wrong. (i don`t think that specially in this case there were any but those in line didn`t have any knowledge of what & why.. If he were pickpocketing to keep his mother alive and he had only 2 hours to do it.. I can make this sound like it`s that assailant that was the hero.. That`s why there are trials.

    About 1000 kill example: i would sooo kill that kind of guy, i know that it is wrong and would go to jail for it (not before trying my best to avoid it).

    Next: Grendel
  48. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 7:57 am
    From WSB in Atlanta: Witness-"A guy came in and pointed a gun at us." Also, there were TWO armed citizens that responded.

    Criminal pointed gun at victims, victims shot back.

    Case closed. Suicide by stupidity.
  49. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:02 am
    Grednel: You made my point exactly:
    "CreamK-"Is it still ok to shoot him if he was sick"

    Grendel: The people who he is robbing do not have that information, nor can they take it into consideration"

    Exactly the reason i was going for with this example. They don`t know. That`s why we have court of law.

    People on that line were not threatened by physical violence and the coward who had a gun straight up shot him (only cowards carry guns). I actually have some of the your attitude, don`t effing steal, you might get hurt.

    People mug pickpockets all over the world everyday. That`s is not my problem, all thou i`d still prefer they`d be tried in fair court.. My problem with you is that you try to convince its "justice" when it clearly isn`t. It`s vindication, vigilantism, a gross abuse of power.

    Who ever shot him, didn`t act in self-defense but killed a guy and should be doing time for his crimes, that was way abo
  50. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:06 am
    Some people think it beter to be a victim then defend what they`ve worked for we call them UKers.....
  51. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:06 am
    and pussies!
  52. Profile photo of talon0325
    talon0325 Male 40-49
    382 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:07 am
    You have to be kidding! $180 for a pair of running shoes? Made in a foriegn country for less than $3 and people are lining up to buy some piece of crap with some dicks name on it. Only in `merica. The robber only did the job that the people that own the store are doing anyway. WTF is our society coming to? $500 cell phones that blow away most computers and $300 jeans, $200 running shoes , that are not even used by runners. Keep going kids, the internet has you now. Anything that is posted on the internet is real and you MUST have it. No matter the cost. BTW. the lawn needs to be cut and your mom needs a hand putting the groceries away. Oh sorry. Did I interupt your texting? Get the f$%^ out of my house and find a life of your own.
  53. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:16 am
    CreamK-"There were no mention of robber having a gun."

    If you`d do a little research, you`d have fount out that he did, indeed, have a gun, and pull a gun on the people in the line.

    Case of Self-defense. No charges will be filed.

    CreamK-"if a person doesn`t know what he is doing is wrong."

    Then hopefully he will get help BEFORE he gets killed. If a guy doesn`t know it`s wrong to drive the wrong way on the interstate, are we to just let him cotinue because `he doesn`t no better`? No, he must be stopped, because his actions can result in the death of himself or others. Sometimes the first occurence results in death, and they can`t receive help.

    Life is harsh.

    CreamK-"That`s why there are trials."

    Yes, and trials, in theory at least, are `fair`. But, sometimes your actions may lead you to be dead before you can reach a trial.

    Life is harsh.
  54. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:17 am
    Grednel: You made my point exactly:
    "CreamK-"Is it still ok to shoot him if he was sick"

    Grendel: The people who he is robbing do not have that information, nor can they take it into consideration"

    Exactly the reason i was going for with this example. They don`t know. That`s why we have court of law.

    People on that line were not threatened by physical violence and the coward who had a gun straight up shot him (only cowards carry guns). I actually have some of the your attitude, don`t effing steal, you might get hurt.

    People mug pickpockets all over the world everyday. That`s is not my problem, all thou i`d still prefer they`d be tried in fair court.. My problem with you is that you try to convince its "justice" when it clearly isn`t. It`s vindication, vigilantism, a gross abuse of power.

    Who ever shot him, didn`t act in self-defense but killed a guy and should be doing time for his crimes, that was way abo
  55. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:20 am
    CreamK-"People on that line were not threatened by physical violence"

    Hey, Dippoo, you`re working on old information.

    THE ROBBER HAD A GUN POINTED AT THE PEOPLE IN THE LINE!

    CreamK-"only cowards carry guns"

    Okay, now you`ve just gone full retard. Never go full retard.
  56. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:22 am
    CreamK-"They don`t know. That`s why we have court of law."

    Which is fine and dandy if the idiot makes it to the courts.

    That is not guaranteed.

    If someone is threatening you with a gun, you don`t think `Well, at least the courts will be fair after I`ve been murdered.` (Well, YOU may think that..sane people do not)
  57. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:26 am
    Grendel: why didn`t you tell me this sooner:

    "If you`d do a little research, you`d have fount out that he did, indeed, have a gun, and pull a gun on the people in the line."

    I`m going with the information provided in the video, it`s short description and a rant that was, at the time and the available info, clearly not justified. You had more info and didn`t show it to others, instead you allowed the gathering more momentum against your totally immoral stance and then sweeped the rug under us by changing the conditions... That`s a dick move as it changes the whole debate. If you knew this when you started ranting, we were not on the level playfield on this.

    So now that new info emerges, one i didn`t have a clue, i have no huge problems with this case. Maybe that the guns were there in the first place but that`s totally another debate and i kept that away from this from out of respect to the original subject: is property more valuable than humanlife
  58. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:33 am
    Grendel: Just When did you find out that there`s was another gun, carried by the robber? Honestly, when did you find this out as you are only now shouting it aloud.. Don`t get me wrong, but it seems like you noticed how wrong you`re statement was, found out that he DID have a gun and came back, looking all perfect and wise. I would`ve expect it to be the FIRST thing you stated, not the last.

    If you`d known it when you started this and withheld that information... Well, we are not playing the same game anymore. I brought a chess-set to a game that was later changed to rugby.

    Guns fix fear.
  59. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:37 am
    CreamK-"is property more valuable than humanlife"

    In my opinion? No.

    At the same time, is this criminal`s life worth the time, effort and dedication I have to put forth to provide for my family? No.

    It boils down to this: Many criminals value their life less than they value what they are stealing. They willingly put their safety on the line for whatever it is they are stealing, because the fact that some people will react violently to any intrusion of their person or property is a known quantity.

    This idiot was dumb. He pulled a gun on a group of ~25 people. In the State of Georgia, with the number of concealed permit holders, there would be, on average, 1.5 people legally carrying a concealed gun. (as it turned out, there appears to have been two).

  60. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:38 am
    turdburglar, Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:26:40 PM had the info in his post. Didn`t notice it. Neither did Grendel notify that info anywhere in his posts and his points were the ones that made me feel like i did.. I didn`t read all of the info and i admit, my response was poor in that sense.
  61. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:54 am
    My stance on killing still stands: no one should kill another human in any context. It`s an ideology, it`s not reality. We should strive to achieve our ideologies but we never will, nor we actually should, reach them. One is based on an idea, reality is how things actually work. Killing a murderer: in what sense is that right? As a punishment and deterrent? Reality shows that it does not work.

    It`s an ideology too; make the punishment so scary so no one will commit crimes. Does not and has not ever worked. It doesn`t not refute all of the effects that the deterrent has. Clearly some for of punishment lurking in the background is what keeps us committing more crimes, that`s a fact.

    Death as a punishment is reserved for the murder victims; they are the only ones justified to do so. But since they are dead, we have only one choice: lock the bastard in a square windowless room. Not even the family has a right to kill the 100% guilty murderer. Revenge is not justice, it`s
  62. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:55 am
    CreamK-"his points were the ones that made me feel like i did"

    Please note that at no time was I trying to justify someone getting shot for pick-pocketing. Just pointing out the fact that it was POSSIBLE, and that the criminals know of the possibility, so are willingly risking their life for a few bucks. So, THEY are the ones making the choice that their life is worth (in this case) $180.

    In any country in the world, if you rob someone, you risk injury or death. In any country if you break into a house, you risk injury or death.

    YOU may not think it`s `fair`, but what you think has nothing to do with the reality.

    I happen to think all politicians should be honest, and we see how well that`s working out.
  63. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 9:01 am
    Sorry for typos:
    "doesn`t not" -> "does not"
    "for" -> "form"
    "...is not justice, it`s"- > "...it`s just revenge."

    Sorry for MeGrendel for attacking you so fiercely, you have to go and read your own posts from my viewpoint of not having enough information on this matter.. I think you find that in that context, my posts were understandable. Sorry again.
  64. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 9:02 am
    CreamK-"My stance on killing still stands: no one should kill another human in any context"

    Luckily, your stance has no bearing on reality.

    CreamK-"Death as a punishment is reserved for the murder victims, they are the only ones justified to do so"

  65. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 9:14 am
    luckily"??? So you think it`s good thing that we can kill each others in some situations? When how and who has the justification of doing so? The criminal has no such right, government does not have it. If i`d believed in god then he would be the only one that can even remotely claim that form of justice. Mostly because he would have ALL the evidence, not just from the crime it self but all info from DNA, culture, past, everything.

    My point of allowing the victims to revenge their death was designed so that it`s a paradox. Death is final, thus it has totally different laws attached to it. Stealing a property? You have a chance of getting it back.
  66. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3907 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 10:45 am
    If the robber had a gun and pointed it he deserved to get shot.
  67. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1930 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 11:19 am
    MeG wrote.......I happen to think all politicians should be honest, and we see how well that`s working out.

    Wait...what...? You mean politicians lie to us?! DOES THE PRESIDENT KNOW ABOUT THIS!?
  68. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    DromEd-"DOES THE PRESIDENT KNOW ABOUT THIS!?"

    Well, he `said` he does...but he might be lying.

    @CreamK. My point this entire time is not that anyone SHOULD get killed, for anything. But that IT IS ALWAYS a possibility. Criminals know this, yet do it anyway.

    Think of it as Evolution In Action. Every time some criminal is killed through his own stupidity, the mean intelligence goes up just a wee bit. (and you have to be a special kind of stupid to not consider the possibility that a group of people waiting in line for Labron in Atlanta, GA might have at least one person who is armed)
  69. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm
    @MeGrentroll

    Hah good one, equalling gun nuttyness with intelligence... thats the first joke ive seen you make.

    Perhaps he should have considered that hes in the US and that there are 3 people around him more messed up than he is.
  70. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    @Essersmith

    Ya cause gun ownership somehow equates to inteligence level and mental stability.... and you call us brainwashed lol!
  71. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 24, 2013 at 8:05 pm
    Essersmith-"equalling gun nuttyness with intelligence"

    Obviously intelligence is not something you`re familiar with, nor is reading comprehension.

    I did not equate gun ownership with intelligence. I equated criminality with lack of intelligence.
    So, every time a drug addict overdoses, the average intelligence goes up.
    Every time a criminal is shot in the commission of a crime, the average intelligence goes up.
    Every time a drunk driver kills himself, the average intelligence goes up.

    Think of it as Evolution in Action.
  72. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 1:49 am
    @Mcgovern
    Never called you brainwashed. I do think that alot of you are unwilling or incapable of seeing Things from other sides.

    However ive gone to american highschool, sooo I Guess I would say a little brainwashing is going on.
  73. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 1:52 am
    The whole pledging your allegiance to the flag every morning in English class was quite shocking.
  74. Profile photo of Wendypants
    Wendypants Female 30-39
    2420 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 5:13 am
    @Essersmith, `a little`
    BWAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!
    that`s gonna have me chuckling all day!
  75. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 5:46 am
    @McGovern

    I feel that we have made progress here, finally we can agree on something. Gunownership obviously does not euate intelligence or mental stability.

    @MeGrentroll
    Nah Reading isnt my strong suit. My degree in civil engineering came very natural to me.
    But anyone can become an engineer these days :)
  76. Profile photo of godthaab
    godthaab Male 18-29
    220 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 5:49 am
    shooting over a pair of shoes? Gimme a break!
  77. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 5:49 am
    I do think that alot of you are unwilling or incapable of seeing Things from other sides.


    I see a sad side that has a fear of inatimate object because people can`t take blame for their own actions in the pussification of the planet. The UK is quite the leader in that.....
  78. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 6:06 am
    The whole pledging your allegiance to the flag every morning in English class was quite shocking.

    Said the people that sing "God Save the Queen."
  79. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 6:40 am
    Essersmith-"My degree in civil engineering came very natural to me."

    Ah, Engineer. That explains the reading comprehension problem and the lack of social skills. (by any chance is your wife either an elementary school teacher or a day-care provider? I`ve found that a disproportionate number of engineers tend to marry women with those jobs...as they are used to dealing with children.)

    Essersmith-"But anyone can become an engineer these days."

    I agree. The basic definition of an engineer is a person who`s been educated far beyond their intelligence.

    godthaab-"shooting over a pair of shoes?"

    No, the shoes were not involved. It was a shooting over an idiot attempting to rob a line of people of their hard earned money.

    A couple in the line were disinclined to capitulate.
  80. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 10:25 am
    @McGovern
    Im still not british...
    Seeing a sad side is not actually reflecting about how or what makes the said sad side have such a wildly different opinion than yours.
    Seeing something from another side involves questioning your own reasons and questioning if someone else might have a valid point, regardless of if it undermines your own. Its difficult to do, but its so enriching.

    @Megrentrol
    Well wow you definately got me there. Spot on. Basically a monkey with fancy pants is what i am.

    You throw around a lot of insults have you noticed that? How comes? does it make you feel good to tell people they arent intelligent? or that they read and write below a native english speakers level? I wish I was such a real badass with a stunning wife and successfull in every aspect of your life, just like you. Good stuff man. Rock on.
  81. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 10:54 am
    Essersmith-"Basically a monkey with fancy pants is what i am."

    Hey, you may be a great engineer, I have nothing to base it on. But I know many more bad engineers that I do good ones.

    The only thing I can judge about you is your reading comprehension, as you falsly accused me of equating gun ownership with intelligence, when I did no such thing.

    Essersmith-"You throw around a lot of insults have you noticed that? "

    This coming from someone who uses the term `MeGrentroll`.

    The bit about the engineer is actually not an insult so much as my general theory on the majority of engineers. Be happy to discuss it with you one time. I was discussing the same point at the barber one day with a friend, an old gentleman next to me burst out laughing and said, "I was really getting pissed about your opinion on engineers, as I`m a retired engineer, then I realize my wife is a retired third-grade teacher."
  82. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 11:40 am
    @Megrendel
    Your name is two-fold. Its clearly a troll on your picture, and because i rarely read what i would characterize as well founded opinions. Mostly bashing of others opinions.
    I never question your intelligence or ability to interact with people because i have no basis for it, and this is the internet, i feel no reason to lash out to people who might likely just be trolling.

    I didnt accuse you of equating anything, you stated that he was a criminal and him dying was increasing the general intelligence and therefore the guy who shot him must have been of more intelligent sort. Hence i derived that gun ownership = intelligence. A tad deep, but I seem to remember that you are pro guns, so it seemed likely.

    I assume your theory is based on talking to actual engineers and getting to actually know them? Otherwise its an unfounded opinion based on prejudice. Im sure you are also aware that "engineer" is a free title while civil engineer is not. Ther
  83. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 11:45 am
    Also, congratulations! you improved at least in my book. A whole reply without insulting me.
    Sadly im impressed, but its definately a step in the right direction!

    And id love to debate a controversal topic with you some day.
  84. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 12:48 pm
    Also, congratulations! you improved at least in my book. A whole reply without insulting me.
    Sadly im impressed, but its definately a step in the right direction!

    And id love to debate a controversal topic with you some day.
  85. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 1:13 pm
    Essersmith-"Its clearly a troll on your picture"

    No, it`s the character Grendel from Beowulf. You know "Grendel this monster was called, a grim spirit. A hellish enemy. Keeper of the fen and the fastness." (unfortunately `Grendel` was not availlable, as it became popular after that crappy movie a few years ago)

    Essersmith-"because i rarely read what i would characterize as well founded opinions"

    Well, as mentioned, reading comprehension.

    Essersmith-"I didnt accuse you of equating anything"

    Actually, the word you used was `equalling`. as in "equalling gun nuttyness with intelligence" (your direct quote).

    Essersmith-"i derived that gun ownership = intelligence."

    I cannot help what you infer. I was stating that criminals are below average intelligence (which for the most part they are). As anyone can obtain a gun, it in no way can reflect upon intelligence.
  86. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm
    Essersmith-"I assume your theory is based on talking to actual engineers and getting to actually know them?"

    Yes, direct interaction with them and their designs.

    I knew one that designed and built a loading rack for tank truck..without bothering to find out how tall a tank truck is. Beautiful loading rack..just couldn`t pull a truck under it.

    I also knew another that couldn`t figure out, through the process of elimination, which way to turn the lug-nuts on his car to get a flat tire off.

    I know quite a few good engineers. Unfortunately I know MANY more engineers than I know good engineers.
  87. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 2:44 pm
    I believe your reading comprehension is in question now. You clearly didnt read what i said. I didnt ACCUSE you. You stated it pretty blatantly, but we already adressed the disagreement in deriving the content.

    I would characterize Grendel as a trollish creature at the very least.

    Your examples of poor engineers sadly show a bad image of us. But the same examples can be found on any given field. In my line of work, its generally accepted that Architects are idiots who have no sense of reality. I know this is wrong but I approach any drawing by an architect to be riddled with mistakes, and its my job to make sense of it and make it possible.
    Im curious, what is your field of work?
  88. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6174 posts
    June 25, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    Essersmith-"I would characterize Grendel as a trollish creature at the very least."

    Some people would, but I preffer the character from this work, which is a different take on the classic Beowulf.:


    Over the years, chemical lab tech to Research Chemist in the textile, petroleum, polymers & wastewater industries (with a little work with radioactive materials thrown in). Currently overseeing material shipments of a global chemical industry.

    Whereas you see the final work of architects and expect mistakes, working in the manufacturing and chemical business for decades I see the final work of engineers, and have to try and work around the mistakes they designed into the systems.
  89. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 26, 2013 at 7:09 am
    This post is so old by now, who knows who will read it :)

    I think ill have to read the book. Ill pick it up during my summer vacation.

    Easy answers to the mistakes the engineers made can be:
    - Lack of information given.
    - Change of the use of the given structure.
    - Unwillingnes from the people who ordered the product, to change the design after having schematics delivered.
    - Poor engineering.

    In my daily life Im forced to make decisions that I know arent perfect, because otherwise the design will be changed countless times and I would spend weeks catching up. This is often not because I make mistakes, but because changes are made, after the architectural design was supposed to be finished. Its a game of cat and mouse where money plays a huge role. And its understandable that the users of the final product dont see or understand the process behind it. It sure is easy to just blame the engineer.
  90. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm
    This post is so old by now, who knows who will read it :)

    I think ill have to read the book. Ill pick it up during my summer vacation.

    Easy answers to the mistakes the engineers made can be:
    - Lack of information given.
    - Change of the use of the given structure.
    - Unwillingnes from the people who ordered the product, to change the design after having schematics delivered.
    - Poor engineering.

    In my daily life Im forced to make decisions that I know arent perfect, because otherwise the design will be changed countless times and I would spend weeks catching up. This is often not because I make mistakes, but because changes are made, after the architectural design was supposed to be finished. Its a game of cat and mouse where money plays a huge role. And its understandable that the users of the final product dont see or understand the process behind it. It sure is easy to just blame the engineer.

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