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Category: Misc
Date: 05/13/13 01:59 PM

109 Responses to The King James Scam [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Link: The King James Scam - I think ``Twilight`` was written the same way.
  2. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2340 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:02 pm
    Cue the Parade of Southern Baptists, and their thrilling `Yeah, but` rebuttals...
  3. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2413 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    you`re singing to preacher
  4. Profile photo of xoterra
    xoterra Female 18-29
    88 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    I agree with the idea that there are a lot of strange things in the Bible. It was written by man, so it has some pretty dated scriptures in it, but I disagree with this post in that it kind of generalizes/assumes that all Christians take the Bible as 100% truth. I know plenty of Christians, myself included, that believe in God without believing in the Bible itself. I know the Bible was written by man, so no, I don`t really believe in a book or the things written in it. I do believe in God.

    Not trying to start a debate, these are just my beliefs and I am not bothered by anyone else having different beliefs, but just know that not all Christians blindly follow the Bible and what they are told.
  5. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:13 pm
    Oh, c`mon now. Do we really need to bash the King James Bible, for heaven`s sake? That particular translation has some of the most beautiful language and lilting phrases in all of English prose. Say what you want about Christianity--but the KJV was one of the best things that ever happened to English literature.
  6. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    As I always say, both sides of this argument could learn something by reading Joseph Campbell.
  7. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:23 pm

  8. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:24 pm
    The KJV is one of the most influential and powerful books ever. It was compiled by the most erudite men of the time, it has a beauty and resonance that is unsurpassed, it has moulded a nation, moulded a language and transformed the world. I do not believe in god- but to dismiss this book is sheer ignorance. to take it literally is equally foolish- but even its creators did not do THAT.... It is not a history book, but it contains history, it is not true- but it contains truth, it is an amazing and enriching book which teaches us a lot. Everyone should read it, but they should NOT take it literally.
  9. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Oh goody. Do the Koran next. And then the polar express.
  10. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm
    @ Madduck: Hear, hear! And I promise your mention of tummy raspberries in another thread has nothing to do with this show of support. =^.^=
  11. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm
    God Squrlz- but you get them anyway. Just given some to the Degu....
  12. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:38 pm
    Well, I would argue that that is the VERY DEFINITION of the word "faith". Not that I have it, but, yeah, that`s super faith right there.
  13. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:38 pm
    This has nothing to do with how beautiful the words or how great the messages, were. This has to do with Christians believing in this stuff and basing their beliefs on it. You can learn a lot of a lot of books. There are tons of fantastic messages out there, written in books, over the years. But that does not mean you should follow one of them as true and base a religious system on it.
  14. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:42 pm
    So, Squrlz and madduck, I`m not sure what you two are saying? Does this post dismiss the beauty of the writing in the Bible? Does this post dismiss its power or influence? Does this post in any way challenge the beauty of the words?

    It seems to me that all it does is question the idea that one can claim it to be the "word of God", especially given the stories contained in it! If we`re to believe them, how can the KJV be the legitimate translation? That`s the only thing, I think, that the post is pointing out. Yes?
  15. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    @ Patchouly and Smagboy: On re-reading the image, I think you two are both right; it`s target isn`t the prose or literary qualities, which is what I was focusing on.

    It`s kind of hard to remember that some people out there regard the KJV as the actual voice of God, as if no translation or editorial decisions by humans were part of the process, but indeed they do.
  16. Profile photo of 3002-3038
    3002-3038 Female 18-29
    632 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:55 pm
    Ezekiel 23:19-21

  17. Profile photo of handimanner
    handimanner Male 60-69
    2095 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 2:57 pm
    It`s called CONTROL: your mind, your money.
  18. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:02 pm
    @ Patchouly and Smagboy:

    Addendum: Also, I want to add that some parts of the Bible, in most any translation, are well worth basing a religious system on--the Book of Matthew, for example. Have you two read it? (And I`m not trying to be snarky there; I`m absolutely serious.) If not, it can be read in one sitting and it`s pretty phenomenal. In my own experience, people that quickly dismiss the Bible as a book of outdated nonsense have often read precious little of it. (Yes, I know parts of the Bible contain endorsements of brutality; I get that.)
  19. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    More proof that the religion of atheists is attacking religion. For being so disinterested in something, they sure spend a lot of time talking about it. Why do they care so much about what the rest of us do if, in their minds, none of it matters?
  20. Profile photo of geckohead
    geckohead Female 50-59
    591 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:23 pm
    It`s like the game Telephone. What the last guy hears isn`t at all what the first guy said. Hmm
  21. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Ezekiel 23:19-21
    There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."
    @ 3002-3038, is that from the Bible of 50 Shades of Grey ?
  22. Profile photo of bleong
    bleong Male 30-39
    99 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    Posts like this are simply part of the IAB business plan to drive posts to improve Search Engine Optimization. Consider that the next time you add to a flame war.

    From personal study of this topic, this is a very weak and biased argument.
  23. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:41 pm
    RytWing: interesting thought...
  24. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    bleong: my thoughts exactly.
  25. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    "Why do they care so much about what the rest of us do if, in their minds, none of it matters?"

    Because you jesus freaks try to shove this bullsh*t down our throats on a regular basis, that`s why. Do you see atheists going door to door on Saturday mornings and handing out pamphlets? Do you see atheists attempting to use their lack of belief in an imaginary friend to influence politicians and lawmakers on issues such as gay marriage & abortion? Do you see atheists going into schools trying to brainwash children and teach them to disregard scientific evidence & logic and instead believe that Earth was created a few thousand years ago in about a week? No, you don`t, so shut the f*ck up.

    Once you & your pals stop using your made up religion to justify your ignorance then I`ll stop laughing at you and your imaginary friend that you communicate with telepathically.
  26. Profile photo of Howler81
    Howler81 Male 30-39
    324 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:50 pm
    One might say that the fact that there were thousands of sources for comparison is a good thing in the preservation of historical documents... I mean consider the well-respected histories of Herodotus and Thucydides. Both written circa 450 B.C. Our earliest copies? 900 A.D. But hey, at least we know they`re accurate because there are about 8 or so copies of each. More sources = better translation.

    One might also point to the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidence of the amazing accuracy of the translations.

    One might point out that there were actually dozens of the finest scholars working on the King James Bible, not 8. And why were they all members of the CoE? Because the Catholic church would have had anyone attempting to make a popular translation of the Bible very, very killed.

    But to say any of that, one would have to know something of history and translation and not take inordinate glee in attacking others` faith at every chance...

    Otherwise, do carr
  27. Profile photo of Howler81
    Howler81 Male 30-39
    324 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm
    y on^
  28. Profile photo of Demstar_Aus
    Demstar_Aus Female 18-29
    179 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:52 pm
    Australian Contract Law at its core is based on the King James Bible.
  29. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:53 pm
    Just a little FYI.

    The bible teaches us how to have faith in God, not to have faith in the bible. It does hold God`s lessons on how to find him, which still work today. The Holy Bible, especially the KJV, is a fantastic history of faith in God, which can profit anyone in their search. But ignoring it just out of spite or because of bias or prejudice, or because it was written from someone else is nothing short of ridiculous. Good things are translated so people can understand it, it`s only common sense. Think of how bad `run lola run` would be if there was no translation and you didn`t know french.
  30. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 3:55 pm
    @ Whodat: "So shut the f*ck up."

    C`mon, now. I know it`s Monday, but do things need to get this ugly this quickly? Here`s a fluffy squirrel pic to change the mood in here, everyone. You`re welcome.

  31. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
    whodat6484: There are quite a few `Evangelist atheists` for lack of a better term. In fact they`re attempting to use their lack of belief in God to encourage others to do the same, just as you say doesn`t happen. If you don`t see it that`s just selective reasoning, because it`s quite obvious these days.
  32. Profile photo of cityncolour
    cityncolour Male 30-39
    379 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:13 pm
    @TheGuySmiley
    What you`re referring to are anti-theist atheists. i happen to be one. just because you can`t see the awful truth that is religion doesn`t mean i don`t. i will do what i can to reverse it.
  33. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm
    @TheGuySmiley - Those types are few & far between. Usually, it`s the jesus freaks that blow it out of proportion, here`s a perfect example that happened last week.

    I was at a deli around the corner from my place getting lunch and I was wearing a t-shirt with this picture on it.





    Some guy saw the shirt and asked me if I was an atheist, so I told him I was. He then said, "Why do all you atheists have to go around like that flaunting it, like you`re somehow better than me?" I laughed and then pointed out that the gold chain he was wearing had a cross on it so I asked the same question. Then he told me I was going to hell and left the deli.
  34. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm
    I`m just here for the cute baby squirrel. Thanks, Squrlz!! :D
  35. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm
    Maybe I`m just being pedantic here but, it`s not like every denomination uses the KJV. I mean there is more to the history of Christianity than just Anglicanism, and then of course there`s the Septuagint and the Vulgate (Greek and Latin translations respectively) which translators during the Reformation used (I mean no Western church is ever gonna attempt to wade through the Cyrillic translations anyway...)

    In sum, writer could`ve been more rigorous and done better research on denominations. But yeah, for all the fundegelicals who take the KJV as the verbatim divine word, it`s a good smackdown.
  36. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    The Bible may be a brilliant collection of folk wisdom, but it endorses slavery, promotes polygamy and says teenagers who are disrespectful should be put to death. It should come with a warning label that it`s not for impressionable young minds.
  37. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm
  38. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 5:17 pm
    It is interesting that individuals who call Christianity fairy tales bend the facts so much to make their point. Unfortunately there isn`t enough room here to point out everything wrong with this (I tried but it will take several thousand chars).

    You could start with this link:
    Read the conclusion if nothing else

    Also the references at the bottom of this post go nowhere pertinent to it`s statements.
  39. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    whodat6484: people who do that are few and far between too. But the point i was getting at was that every group, or so it seems to me, has it`s bad apples. No matter how good it is, sooner or later one gets in, and grows. Historically, it almost seems like some kind of social law of our human society. At least a social law while the society still has sin.
  40. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    @whodat

    I had a guy come to my door and try and sell me a vacuum. I respectfully declined and moved on with my life. I didn`t feel a need to attack his brand of vacuum because it wasn`t my brand of vacuum.
    Quit victimizing yourself and move on.
  41. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    MrPeabody: that was a really good link, thanks!
  42. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    @RytWing - Victimizing? WTF are you talking about? It`s not victimization, it`s f*cking annoying. Quit believing in fairy tales and move on.


  43. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 6:52 pm
    Oh yeah, I was just thinking about something one of you theists may be able help me with...

    When I tell someone that religion is used to control people through fear (don`t do this or you`ll go to hell) they always argue that it`s not. So, if your religion isn`t controlling you through fear, why do you call yourselves "god fearing"?
  44. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 7:26 pm
    whodat: it`s used in the sense of having a reverential awe of God (dictionary)
  45. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:11 pm
    @MrPeabody Funny how your link completely sidesteps Eusebius and his fakery. It`s a great single sided perspective, tho, from christian...ahem...`scholars`.
  46. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:25 pm
    @whodat

    For proclaiming to be so intelligent you still haven`t seen my point (or your avoiding it). Why do you care what others believe? It`s annoying? You know what else is annoying...insects. But I don`t go looking for them, trying to pick a fight, or insult them. I simply avoid them. Go where they are not.
    You get all bent when a theist proselytizes and them you go prosilytize for atheism. Hypocrite. Don`t want to hear from believers? Quit posting stupid stuff like this and they will happily be quiet.
    P.S. Bet you reply to this too cause you can`t leave it alone, thus proving my point.
  47. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:34 pm
    "(or your avoiding it)"

    *you`re
  48. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm
    "You get all bent when a theist proselytizes and them you go prosilytize for atheism." That`d be forgiveable, because atheism is actual *truth*, as opposed to magical mumbo jumbo about an imaginary friend and/or his Prophet(TM).
  49. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:38 pm
    @TheGuySmiley - Meh... the "reverential awe of god" part of the definition makes no sense. If you fear something, you`re afraid of it, not in awe. That`s why I also hate when people use the word homophobia, it`s not a fear of gay people, it`s just being an a$$hole.
  50. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:55 pm
    @MrPeabody lol, so Bowman`s conclusion was that the bible was 80-85% truth? Christians would stone him for heresy. You see, when even one verse is shown to be a porky-pie, it begs the question of well, what else can we ignore. It`s like a balloon with a small hole in it. Christianity, like any book religion, is an all-or-nothing affair. That`s why radical Christian fundamentalists are so hung up on creation and the flood. They`re obviously bull. Even if one agrees with Bowman (I think it`s more like 0%-5% truth), can you imagine taking a broad marker to the bible and redacting or altering 15-20%? You could rewrite the entire religion.
  51. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 8:57 pm
    Knew you couldn`t leave it alone.
  52. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    So, if your religion isn`t controlling you through fear, why do you call yourselves "god fearing"?
    @WhoDat: Not a Christian, but I went to Fundamentalist Boarding School! In North Weybrun, Saskatchewan!

    Those who preach "fire and brimstone" or who emphasize "passion plays/sermons" are FAILING to figure out what Christianity is supposed to be about: FAITH!
    If you`re scared of burning in heck? That`s NOT faith!
    If you`re so moved by suffering & torture and stuff? That`s S&M! Not faith.

    A reasoned, thought out and well researched FAITH is what a Christian is "supposed to have".

    Easier said than done, eh?

    @Draculya: You got some PROOF to go with your OPINIONS? No? Didn`t think so...

    "What is truth? Are mine the same as yours?"
  53. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 9:40 pm
    @Draculya
    "lol, so Bowman`s conclusion was that the bible was 80-85% truth?"

    No, it wasn`t his conclusion, you read it the way you wanted to see it (Just as the original post btw). Try reading it again and pay attention to what it says.
  54. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    All religions are equal.
    The god of Abraham is no different than Gnesh or Oden or the Spirit Gods of native Americans or the Rain Gods of some primitive amazon tribe. How can one god be better than all of the other gods? They`re gods. Or they`re made up.

    Which seems more likely to you?
  55. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 10:10 pm
    When I tell someone that religion is used to control people through fear (don`t do this or you`ll go to hell) they always argue that it`s not. So, if your religion isn`t controlling you through fear, why do you call yourselves "god fearing"?

    As was pointed out by TheGuySmiley, "God fearing" is not the same as being afraid of God. Sorry but Christianity is not about controlling people, nor making them afraid. Are there people who do this? Of course there are, but the bible warns about false prophets, and deceivers. It also tells Christians that it is our responsibility to search the scriptures to see if what we are told is true so that we will not be victims.
  56. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 10:35 pm
    RytWing

    "More proof that the religion of atheists is attacking religion. For being so disinterested in something, they sure spend a lot of time talking about it. Why do they care so much about what the rest of us do if, in their minds, none of it matters?"

    It is because stupidity and ignorance offends me. It isn`t just the stupidity and ignorance of the religious, but that is the only one that is embraced or encouraged.

    If a large majority of the planet believed in Santa, or that the Earth was flat, or that green M&Ms made you horny I`d be just as interested in poking holes in all their bulls.hit as well.

    You have EVERY right to believe whatever senseless drivel you want. I have the right to call you a simpleton for it.
  57. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 10:38 pm
    TheguySmiley

    "The bible teaches us how to have faith in God,"

    But if the bible is faulty then you are being taught a faulty thing from a faulty source.

    " Think of how bad `run lola run` would be if there was no translation and you didn`t know french."

    Well if you knew German it would still be OK since it is a German film in German and has f.uck all to do with french.
  58. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 10:49 pm
    RytWing

    "I had a guy come to my door and try and sell me a vacuum. I respectfully declined and moved on with my life. I didn`t feel a need to attack his brand of vacuum because it wasn`t my brand of vacuum.
    Quit victimizing yourself and move on."

    Did he then go on to congress with a bunch of other vacuum salesmen from his company and try to repeatedly pass legislation to make me have to buy his vacuum?

    If you think religion and the religious are just some passing unseen forces that don`t intrude on anyone else`s life then you are f.ucking retarded.
  59. Profile photo of Sleepyhallow
    Sleepyhallow Male 50-59
    1983 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 11:05 pm
    The fact that it directly contradicts itself at least 437 times, says that bats are birds, snakes eat dirt, rabbits chew their cud, Unicorns exist, and wind is literally kept in storehouses is enough to make me disregard it in its entirety.

    What I don`t understand it those who *believe* in it as the "Unerring Word of God" just pick and choose which parts they follow and which parts they don`t follow.

    Isn`t it supposed to be an All or Nothing approach?
    Either God is ALWAYS Right or He isn`t.

    Responses from the Hypocrisy seats?
  60. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 11:35 pm
    I think this shows how drated up parts of the US are. Here (England) we have a state religion- but no one really believes- we do NOT do evangelism, and for the most part the church is a social thing. No one ever expects the bible to be taken literally- tub thumping is frowned upon. Because of that, I think the bible is wonderful- summer break I am studying the history of the OT. Fascinating because you can see the original polytheism kinda remastered for monotheism.. and for Erotica- Song of Solomon....
    But if someone told me to take it literally- I would seriously doubt their mental capacity.
  61. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 11:37 pm
    Responses from the Hypocrisy seats?
    @SleepyHallow: I think YOU resemble that remark!
    There`s PLENTY of us "believers in God" who are NOT Christians who have NO FAITH AT ALL in the Bible.
    It`s just a book!

    Please edumicate yourself before making more stupid comments? k-thx!

    @Gerry1: If you post that "Biblical Spiderman" one more time? I`ll... laugh my ass of some more! :-D
  62. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    May 13, 2013 at 11:38 pm
    Oh- and for the record- I was taught, in RE, by our school Rev, that you DO NOT take the bible literally- it ALL needs to be understood in the context of its age and time- including the Gospels- because it is an anthology of writings, and has indeed got mistakes and contradictions in it. Yay for the CofE perhaps?
  63. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 1:21 am
    After all the infinite flame wars
    lets face it religion - sucks
  64. Profile photo of Bakcagain21
    Bakcagain21 Male 18-29
    560 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 1:46 am
    @madduck ehhh I disagree with the decline in reigon the resurgant wing are the evangelicals. Look at the successful churches in the UK like HTB and the Alpha course. They`re evangelical and they`re the group which s increasing as the others decline.
  65. Profile photo of SminkyPinky
    SminkyPinky Female 30-39
    233 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 3:20 am
    Unicorns.
  66. Profile photo of jimbobsthebe
    jimbobsthebe Male 18-29
    639 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 4:29 am
    How is it that anyone in modern society is still religious? I just don`t get it!
  67. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 5:34 am
    "Why do atheists care so much about religion?"

    Because, it`s like being an alter boy who`s trying to ignore being raped by his priest while he forces his penis down your throat.

    "Just keep doing what you`re doing and pretend like I`m not even here..."
  68. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 7:19 am

    "religion of atheists "
    I always laugh at phrases like that.
    Something in those people absolutely refuses to believe that other people can get on just fine without a superstition. The concept of doing fine without making juju to the Sky Gods frightens them. Makes them feel small and alone. Well, if doing a rain dance makes you happy great, just don`t expect me to do it.
  69. Profile photo of Byfield
    Byfield Male 18-29
    464 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 7:20 am
    Seriously, is this not common knowledge? Its a good thing supposedly - standardise the text. Less arguing.

    8,000 texts with the same gist. theres some variations - lines missing, lines added, but all the books are effectively the same damn thing. The fact that it was altered to better suite people all the damn time is irrelevant.

    Why be Christian? If you are christian, you believe Jesus was a Jew. Ergo, Judaism = the real faith.

  70. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 7:40 am

    "Why be Christian? If you are christian, you believe Jesus was a Jew. Ergo, Judaism = the real faith."

    Simple, the basis of Christianity is the belief that Jesus is God`s son or the embodiment of God in the flesh i.e the Messiah.

    Jews don`t believe that Jesus was the Moshiach, therefor Christianity would be rendered entirely null if Christians were to reject the central core of their beliefs...and that`s not going to happen.

    Also, most religions have been born out of others before them.
    There is often a Matriarchal Archetype; Hera, Isis, Kali, Sarah, Mary because the Mother is such a huge part of humanity`s psyche.
    Likewise there is the Godlike Father Archetype dating back before the time of Baal worship.

    These meaningful concepts, inherent in most men, evolved through mythos with the progression of civilizations.
  71. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 7:45 am
    These concepts become polished over time...

    Were you to ask me what I believe the Messiah is in present times, I would tell you that the Messiah is an analogy of the innate power every human possesses to act as their own saviour.

    But...that`s just me.
  72. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 7:53 am
    Do you understand that not every Christian faith views the Bible as an "every word is truth" history book? Hint, us Catholics don`t. The context of when parts were written and why is a huge part of understanding the Word of God. If anything, this post makes my faith stronger. It`s all good though, I`ll still pray for you atheists as I pray for us all.
  73. Profile photo of TheiaRenown
    TheiaRenown Female 18-29
    426 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 8:02 am
    I saw the post and was almost afraid to look at the comments. Oh IAB`s, I love you all.
  74. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 8:23 am

    "Christianity is the belief that Jesus is God`s son"
    @Geogypsy... nope. no. no way.
    I`m not getting draw in. Not gonna get sucked in to this debate.

    Okay, I will say this one thing. "One True God". Monotheism right. But if Jesus is gods son then there are two gods. And then there is the Holy Spirit. It`s not feeling the presence of god, the Spirit is spoken of as a separate entity. ? God? Ghost? ? ? And the devil and the angels seem to be supernatural beings as well with supernatural powers. Are they full gods or just demi-gods? They are not mortal men.

    If you can talk yourself into believing all that and still claim it`s monotheistic, then you can talk yourself into anything.

  75. Profile photo of Lednar
    Lednar Male 18-29
    109 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 8:27 am
    And every quote from that book boils down to this

    Oops, wrong link.
  76. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 8:48 am
    @Gerry, I`m sure that other monotheistic religions claim that God has different aspects.

    Look at Judaism, God has seventy names based upon the attribute he`s expressing or the function that he`s performing. In Kabbalah there is mention of the Shechinah which (aside from being ten virtuous attributes) is also meant to be the feminine aspect of God.

    Then, even in polytheistic religions, a single God can take on different aspects; appear in different forms...like Buddhism`s Arya Tara which has twenty one major forms...or the Hindu Lord Shiva.

    I wasn`t trying to troll, honestly. I do see your point, but at the same time I think that a God, like a human, can fill many roles without breaking into separate entities.
  77. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 8:49 am
    I think the global warming data from East Anglia were written this way, too, based on the leaked emails that pretty much admitted to it. Belief in global warming is just as insane.
  78. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7564 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 9:10 am
    we have Alphas here- weird culty group aren`t they. They do put up posters- but the posters have a half lif of about three seconds. They are dangerous and weird- let my daughter go to something they organised years ago- she came back telling me evolution was wrong. Last time she went, she was ten! How frigging DARE they say that -- lucky I did not blow them up or make a scene-
  79. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 9:32 am
    "Christianity is the belief that Jesus is God`s son"...close, but no

    The debate still rages between Russian Orthodox Christians and all others - is Jesus ranked below God yet above the Holy Spirit OR are they all equal? Is he a son or a manifestation of god himself.
  80. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 9:47 am
    Okay kiddies, brief religion mythology/history lesson:

    Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same base God. God told Sara and Abraham the were going to have a great lineage(eg, line of David) even though they were very old. Abraham took Haggar (his slave which was acceptable at that time) and bore a son (the lineage of Islam) and did have a son with Sara (the lineage of Christianity) The Jews just continued.

    Jesus was a Jew and died a Jew. That is the only reason he was culpable to Jewish law. He was crucified because of treason(to the Romans) since to speak against Rome/Roman gods was detrimental to society, and have a large following that could be considered a threat, was therefore treasonous. Christianity began with his teachings, with many different versions, but did not formally become a religion until many years later. He wasn`t even deified then. It was a new covenant that separated Judaism and Christianity.
  81. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6961 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:21 am
    AvatarJohn,

    Nope. That paricular canard was laid to rest long since. Do try to keep up.
  82. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:38 am
    ""Christianity is the belief that Jesus is God`s son"...close, but no"

    Just for purposes of clarification that wasn`t my full quote....the other half was, "or the embodiment of God in the flesh i.e the Messiah."

    I am well aware that there has been dogmatic controversy over the specifics for centuries.
  83. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3489 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 11:18 am
    @Gerry1of1: This is actually a very complex part of Christian religion, with varying forms of belief depending on each individual religion. I think most refer to it as Trinitarian monotheism. Theophilus of Antioch, was the first to really talk about the trinity, he described it as "God, his Word, and his Wisdom."
    There is also the belief held by some religions that god is in a state of hypostasis. Three distinct beings with a single soul or essence. Sometimes this is used to express the differences between the "personal" and "powerful" God of genesis. It is a view that separates christianity from most forms of of other monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam.
    Yet some have noted that the word God in Hebrew "Elohim" can be considered a plural of "El", meaning "powerful ones" or "rulers," but that is a whole other discussion entirely.
  84. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3489 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 11:57 am
    Some do consider Jesus as God`s son, others consider him to be God in human form, others feel he was a type of divine sacrifice, and yet others that he was just a incredibly intouch prophet. Some forms of gnosticism believed that he was simply a shell to house the Holy Spirit while on earth. Take your pick on who Jesus is as it relates to God.

    Yet in most forms of monotheistic religion it is common to note, that "God is unknowable."

    As far as angels and devils, thrones and seraphim, they constitute different forms of beings but not Gods. The Devil is a later creation and is seen himself in different ways; from a angelic divine prosecutor, Lucifer "light-bringing" or "shining one" who tests mens devotion to God or as Satan "adversary" leader of the watchers who was cast out of heaven, but he is separate from God, not more powerful than God, but he is permitted to exist. God is always seen as the original and most powerful being
  85. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    @holygod

    Name the government organization forcing you into religion.
  86. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 1:34 pm
    @richanddead: Nice overview! Sounds correct to me.

    @AvatarJohn: YEAH! AGW takes a lot more faith than any religion. Has more fanaticism too...

    HAHA! An advert for "Bible Trivia Challenge" >>>
  87. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    "Name the government organization forcing you into religion."

    I`m pretty sure @HolyGod is referring to all the jesus freaks who are trying to get the hilarious & absurd idea of creation taught in public schools along with evolution.




  88. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 2:04 pm
    HG: Contrary to what you and a handful of others may think, the procedures of the Holy Bible have been tried, tested, and found to be true for thousands of generations, and continue to realized by many intelligent people seeking its truths. Also, the source isn`t faulty, considering that the dead sea scrolls confirm this.
  89. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Geo - having multiple names for the same thing does not make it multiple items. Coke, Coca Cola, Cola... it`s still just one coke so your Jewish milti-name theory it irrelevant.

    John 3:16 is pretty easy to understand. Jesus is set up as a separate individual who is the son of a god and therefore a god himself. That`s 2 gods. Holy spirit ... 3 and counting.

    Then there are the immortal beings who can move between this realm and the "other worlds" like heaven and/or hell. Clearly supernatural beings, not men. Demi-gods.

    It`s not much different than Zues and the titans is it? Or Odin and thor/loki. But be happy with it, whatever it is. Just don`t pass laws based on it. Locally, a church wants strip clubs to stop advertising and pushing for a city ordinance. Because as always, religists want the whole world to live by their standards.
  90. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    richanddead, "This is actually a very complex part of Christian religion"
    It`s not complex at all. It`s simple. It`s a contradiction. But having set the idea up as flawless religists can`t admit it`s a fundamentally flawed concept. Instead they build up a very complicated double-talk theology about it which distracts & confuses but never explains.
  91. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    Still waiting for the name of the organization whodat. Guess it doesn`t exist. Who believes in imaginary things now?
  92. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6771 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    RytWing
    "Still waiting for the name of the organization whodat. Guess it doesn`t exist. Who believes in imaginary things now?"

    OK. Off the top of my head:

    The Texas board of education trying to put Intelligent Design into textbooks thereby making all textbooks have it.

    The sodomy laws still on the books and even enforced in lots of states for religious reasons.

    The fact that it says "In God We Trust" on money. Just a minor annoyance sure, but ask yourself how OK you would be if the money said "In Allah We Trust".

    Religious groups actively opposing gay marriage and denying people equal rights because of things it says in the bible.

    That if I am called to testify in court I have to put my hand on a bible and swear to god to tell the truth.

    Etc. Etc. Etc...

    Nobody is making me religious but they governing me religiously and injecting their belief system into my life.
  93. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    @ RytWing, also there are the Blue Laws in many states. In Virginia you couldn`t buy alcohol until 1 p.m. on Sunday `cause it`s church time. On the local news in San Diego this morning a church is trying to get strip clubs to stop advertising.

    It was religious groups that rallied their troops to vote for Prop 8 - voting to deny people they don`t like full citizenship rights. Specifically gays can`t marry one-another like other citizens do because the church doesn`t like it.

    Yes, the church is mixed up in politics and trying to cram it`s agenda down other people`s throats.
  94. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    Faxed from heaven !!
  95. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 9:20 pm
    Granted. The influence of religion is everywhere. However, the question still stands unanswered. Which government institution is forcing atheists in a belief system that is contrary to thier own conscience? Are you guys incapable of blocking out unwanted influences? Are you being marched to church at gun point? Do your hands burn when you handle money? Does the idea of hell really bother you? It shouldn`t.
    You guys are smart people. When are you going to figure out that you`re putting a lot of energy into attacking something that you don`t even believe in? What a waste. You`ll say your not attacking religion but if that is the case, what are you defending? Marriage?-Religious institution. Evolution?-Already taught in schools. Sodomy?-shut up about, it won`t be a problem.
    Get a hobby.

  96. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm
    @RytWing: I`m an atheist. I have no problem at all with people of faith having their faith and practicing as they see fit. I give them no grief; I cause them no problems as a result of my disbelief. I, on the other hand, cannot shop for clothing on Sunday without going to another state, because of someone else`s religion. If I fell in love with a man I couldn`t marry him, because of someone else`s religion. I`ve had people come to my door to insist that I MUST accept Jesus as my lord because of someone else`s religion. There have been people of faith attacking atheists for YEARS. Personally, I don`t fight back but, really, why shouldn`t I if I feel put upon? That being said, however, I also have to say that, with the exception of laws determining what private and otherwise benign things I may or may not do, I think that atheists as a whole need to shut up, live their lives as they see fit, and allow others to lives their lives the same way.
  97. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:33 pm
    (continuing) If someone comes to my door insisting I accept Jesus, though, I feel well within my rights to tell them to f*ck off!I sincerely doubt, and certainly hope, that no atheist has ever come to your door insisting ythat you reject the supposed word of God.
  98. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:34 pm
    @RytWing: I`m an atheist. I have no problem at all with people of faith having their faith and practicing as they see fit. I give them no grief; I cause them no problems as a result of my disbelief. I, on the other hand, cannot shop for clothing on Sunday without going to another state, because of someone else`s religion. If I fell in love with a man I couldn`t marry him, because of someone else`s religion. I`ve had people come to my door to insist that I MUST accept Jesus as my lord because of someone else`s religion. There have been people of faith attacking atheists for YEARS. Personally, I don`t fight back but, really, why shouldn`t I if I feel put upon? That being said, however, I also have to say that, with the exception of laws determining what private and otherwise benign things I may or may not do, I think that atheists as a whole need to shut up, live their lives as they see fit, and allow others to lives their lives the same way.
  99. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:39 pm
    "Granted. The influence of religion is everywhere. However, the question still stands unanswered. Which government institution is forcing atheists in a belief system that is contrary to thier own conscience?"

    The simple fact that there are still laws on the books, like Gerry & HG listed, that are influenced by religion IS forcing their belief system on those who are atheist or agnostic. Depending on whatever the specific law is, you can point toward the respective gov`t agency.

    Since you`re so hell bent on someone naming a specific dept, HG mentioned "In God We Trust" on money. Well, that would be the Treasury Department, which is not imaginary.

    The "blue laws" that Gerry mentioned concerning alcohol sales are on a state to state basis but they ultimately answer to the ATF, which is part of the Dept of Justice, which also is not imaginary.

  100. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 14, 2013 at 10:45 pm
    "Marriage?-Religious institution."

    WRONG

    As defined in today`s world, "Marriage is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that establishes rights & obligations between the spouses, between the spouses & their children, and between the spouses & their in-laws."
  101. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36680 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 6:18 am

    RytWing - No one forces anyone to believe. You can`t force a belief. They ARE forcing non-believers to behave or restrict their behavior according to their religist rules and standards.
  102. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    "AGW takes a lot more faith than any religion. Has more fanaticism too... "

    That may well be the single stupidest thing I have ever read on IAB. Congrats, 5Cats, for setting the bar so high!

    Tell you what, you post a list of EVIDENCE for the existence of a god, any god, and I`ll post a list of EVIDENCE for global warming. Let`s see which list is longer and holds up to scrutiny best. If you`re honest with yourself, your list would have to be empty.
  103. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 3:55 pm
    So marriage didn`t start out as two people being unified in a church by a priest several millennia ago? Clearly you now find your self in a conundrum. The law of marriage sprang from the religious institution of marriage and you guys are opposed to religion influencing law yet you all want to get married. Why not just be the happy animals you evolved to be? The birds don`t need a stinking law to be monogamous.
  104. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm
    @broizfam
    Finally an atheist that understand my point. One has to wonder what an atheist missionaries opening line would be though. Have you heard of the power of believing in nothing? Oh wait, or is it not believing in anything?
  105. Profile photo of WizardofCOR
    WizardofCOR Male 40-49
    155 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm
    "So marriage didn`t start out as two people being unified in a church by a priest several millennia ago?"
    No. The earliest recorded evidence of marriage contracts dates to 4,000 years ago, within Mesopotamia.
    Further, in ancient Rome marriage was considered a civil affair that was governed by imperial law. Churches only got involved after Rome fell, as organized religion`s power grew during the Middle Ages.
  106. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    May 15, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    You forget that Adam and Eve precedes Mesopotamia.
  107. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    May 16, 2013 at 8:15 pm
    @RytWing:
    Wrong again. Atheists don`t believe in nothing. We just don`t believe in gods. Also, while most of what you say about marriage is correct, the fact that it started as a religious unification does not mean that it remains soley a process involving religion today. That`s why people can choose to be married by a justice of the peace, with no religious involvement whatsoever. Also, there are legal issues in marriage which spell out legally enforceable responsibilities. These can also be covered with contractual "marriages" but contract marriages, for whatever reason, don`t seem to have become popular. Maybe people just don`t want lawyers involved at the start of their marriage! Aside from that, your point about "happy animals" is well made.
  108. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4855 posts
    May 16, 2013 at 8:18 pm
    WizardofCor,
    Just saw your post about marriage...very interesting!

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