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Date: 05/08/13 10:55 AM

47 Responses to LA Times Says: USA Gun Crime Way Down [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 10:50 am
    Link: LA Times Says: USA Gun Crime Way Down - But most are Americans unaware. More legal guns means less crime? Just like we said.
  2. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:02 am
    What`s this facts that refute the "control" agenda they must be wrong!!! Piss poor excuses in 3..2...
  3. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:05 am

    To summarize what the story said: Many Americans have been fooled by the media which leads them to believe guns are out to kill you! Stay scared, emotional, and above all irrational America!
  4. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:14 am
    >failing to see any evidence of higher gun ownership

    rt.com/usa/ gun-ownership-decline-us-111/

    Falling gun crime & falling gun ownership....must be coincidence
  5. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:20 am
    The problem is that EVERY crime that`s committed with a gun is now national news, giving the illusion that gun violence is on the rise. I`m not sure where this quote comes from but I`m sure you`ve all heard it before...

    "If you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it."
  6. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:29 am
    kingdomcome, you have screwy causation and correlation. The idea that guns = gun crime is the laziest analysis anyone can make. The fact is that there are gun-ful societies that have relatively low crime, but there are also ones with relatively high crime. There are also gunless societies that have both low and high crime.

    Every state in America has similar gun laws. If that`s true, which it is, then why do some states have European murder rates at 1/100k (New Hampshire, Minnesota, Iowa), and others have murder rates of 5-6/100k (Illinois, California, Texas). Louisiana has 9/100k. If you can give some reasons for the disparity, then you have stumbled on the factors that are responsible for crime. Factors that are more influential than just gun laws. Otherwise, your analysis is woefully unscientific.
  7. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:30 am
    before I get a tirade of nonsense, I don`t believe fewer guns necessarily means less gun crime (don`t see the problem with having background checks, but that`s another issue), I`m just pointing out that the title is completely wrong...in fact it is the opposite of true
  8. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:32 am
    In other news
    Suicide Rates on the Rise
  9. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:32 am
    No....crime is way down. It`s just a fact. Seriously.
  10. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:33 am
    @andrew....I knew I shouldn`t have left it to people to understand why I wrote my first post...
  11. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:33 am
    Falling gun crime & falling gun ownership....must be coincidence

    Record gun sales = falling gun ownership! ROFL!!!
  12. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6959 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:35 am
    Same story in the UK.

    Significant reduction in violent crime but public perception is that it is higher.

    Lots of suggested reasons, including the idea that reducing the lead in the atmosphere 20+ years ago is now paying off. Interesting theory but I`m as yet unconvinced.

    If you really believe that more guns = less violence then that is also an interesting theory, but I wouldn`t discount other factors.
  13. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:35 am
    ...and those who are telling you gun ownership has dramatically decreased within the same time period (mid 1990`s to present day) are misleading you.

    Private gun ownership has, in fact, decreased from around 50% in the 1970`s to roughly 35% today. But, if you look at the data regarding gun crimes & gun ownership from the mid 1990`s to today you`ll see that gun crime has dropped, but the percentage of gun owners has stayed the same, fluctuating between 32% and 37%
  14. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:51 am
    @whodat...you don`t really know how to read graphs do you?
    from 1993 to 2011 gun ownership dropped from 45% to 35%...not insigniificant, but I re-iterate for the denser of the forum readers....unrelated to violent crime as suggested by OP
  15. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:02 pm
    @Kingdom

    Now where are you getting your info here`s some from from the FBI.....

    Keep grasping the straws it`s entertaining!
  16. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:10 pm
    Now this on the other hand show that the Uks "control has had no impact whatsoever.....
  17. Profile photo of chicagojay
    chicagojay Male 40-49
    2018 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Did you know there`s a direct correlation between the decline in Spirograph and the rise in gun violence? Think about it
  18. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:21 pm
    "failing to see any evidence of higher gun ownership"

    Yep. The sold out gun stores must have slipped past your hawkish vision.

    It`s the same, everywhere.
  19. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    Because the MSM and the gun grabbers have been FEARMONGERING for so long? John Q Public has no idea that violent crime and gun crime are actually DOWN!

    But the MSM keeps saying: more guns = more crime!

    As if there was a single shred of evidence to back that up.

    IN FACT: More LEGAL guns = LESS crime in the USA. And a lot of other places too.

    Choke on it gungrabbers! You are 100% wrong.
  20. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:37 pm
    Waiting for @markust to claim the LA Times is a "biased RIGH WING" publication... LMAO!

    Sure, there`s LOTS of possible reasons why crime, violent crime AND gun crime are all down in the USA. But "guns laws" are NOT it.

    In FACT the places with the toughest gun laws have the MOST crime! And the places with the most legal guns? Lowest crime.

    So gun grabbers who want to make it harder for legal ownership? Want to make it easier FOR criminals. That`s a fact.
  21. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    No....crime is way down. It`s just a fact. Seriously.
    ^this. It`s not just gun crime that`s down, ALL violent crime is down quite a bit since the mid-90`s for you guys. Problem is that this Pew study isn`t sexy or fear-inspiring so news agencies (yes, even Fox) don`t want to touch it. Gun ownership in the US is way down from what it was in the 70s, all the talk of people rushing to buy guns @AJ is just current gun owners buying more guns.

    @McGovern: Correlation doesn`t imply causation for those charts.
  22. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm
    @kingdomCome - It would help if you actually read what was written to go along with that graph. I`ll quote it here for you, which is probably a waste of time but I`ll do it anyway.

    "The number of respondents to the question ranges from less that 1000 to around 2000, meaning that the margin of error is 2% to 3% in either direction. In other words, the data for the past 15 years show NO STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT VARIATION."
  23. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm
    IN FACT: More LEGAL guns = LESS crime in the USA.
    But the rate of gun ownership is down, so there are less people with guns, so your point is moot.
  24. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    @McGovern: Correlation doesn`t imply causation for those charts.

    LOL unless it fits your view right! Kinda like how saying the gun owner rate is down so that must be it huh?

    P.S. It`s not gun stores are out of everything and applications for licenses have skyrocketed.
  25. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm
    @Mcgovern: I said nothing of the sort. I didn`t even say you were wrong, just that those charts aren`t exactly proof of any connection. I also didn`t say reduced gun ownership rate was a cause either, I just said @5cats` argument was a non sequitor. Reduced gun ownership didn`t explain an explosion of gun violence in the 90`s either, the issue is much more complex than "A, therefore B."
  26. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:09 pm
    My state for example. It`s happening accross the country FYI. Also note in the article a politician pushing to give police officers the right to go through private medical records geeee what could go wrong with that.....
  27. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:11 pm
    the issue is much more complex than "A, therefore B."

    Imagine if politicans and the europeans here could grasp that concept!!
  28. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    "But the rate of gun ownership is down, so there are less people with guns, so your point is moot."

    The rate of gun ownership has fluctuated between 32% and 37% (with a 2% margin of error) between 1998 & present day. (As seen here)

    Here`s what the violent crime rate...

  29. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    @McGovern: Agreed. Unfortunately, the only gun control that could have a *chance* at meaningful impact is an outright ban, and even that would take quite some time and a lot of money to try and find all the guns that were once legal and illegal (assuming it could even be done, you will never have a gun violence rate of zero ever). I think a better way to think of it is treating it as more of a safety/training/responsibility thing, because guns are there to stay, so I don`t think either side should be pissy about something like background checks, which are overwhelmingly more productive than they are harmful. The argument that more guns will help is not very logical either, though, because more legal guns will likely lead to more illegal guns.
  30. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm
    The rate of gun ownership has fluctuated between 32% and 37%
    Yes, but it was around 50% in the 70`s, so overall it has gone down significantly. This doesn`t necessarily indicate a causative relationship with violent crime, as I already pointed out.
  31. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    "Well I won`t back down, no I won`t back down
    You could stand me up at the gates of hell
    But I won`t back down

    Gonna stand my ground, won`t be turned around
    And I`ll keep this world from draggin` me down
    Gonna stand my ground and I won`t back down

    Chorus
    Hey baby, there ain`t no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I won`t back down

    Well I know what`s right, I got just one life
    In a world that keeps on pushin` me around
    But I`ll stand my ground and I won`t back down

    Hey baby there ain`t no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I won`t back down"

    Hmmm that`d make a great metal song.
  32. Profile photo of Fwoggie2
    Fwoggie2 Male 30-39
    1803 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 4:04 pm
    Based on LordJim`s link, keep going America, you`re only 400 x worse than us! It`ll get better!
  33. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    @patchy: Yes the RATE was higher in the 70`s,but now the population is much bigger so the NUMBER of legal gun owners is LARGER.
    In the 80`s and 90`s there were lots of "buy back" programs that got "unwanted" guns out of homes. This was a "good thing" since it gave people who "accidentally" owned a gun an easy way to get rid of the thing.
    Huge "gun laws" in big cities helped discourage LEGAL ownership too...

    So in the end? More Americans own MORE guns and the crime rate has been FALLING. This is 100% the OPPOSITE of what gun-grabbers tell us!

    And a greater number of legal guns will NOT lead to more "illegal" ones... sheesh! Most guns used in crimes in the USA are in fact purchased legally. Outside the USA it`s very different...
  34. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm
    As whodat (and probably others) pointed out, the rate of gun ownership has been pretty steady over the last 15 years, no increase in guns or increase in gun control, yet gun crime has gone down. These stats don`t back either side of the argument, at all. Its funny how people are desperately scrambling to try to misrepresent facts to try and trick people into their way of thinking, whilst simultaneously criticizing the media for doing the same.
  35. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm
    @paddy215: Have you been paying attention? One of the loudest arguments by the gun-grabbers is: More Legal Guns Will Cause More Crime!
    They`ve been chanting that since the 60`s!
    And what do the facts say? That it`s 100% false.

    So for 15 years lots of legal guns have been purchased, and all forms of "gun crime" have fallen. As well as other crime too.

    There`s LOTS of factors involved, I KNOW! But the gun-grabbers belief that "less guns = less crime" is just plain WRONG.

    And we (us `right wing gun nutz`) can prove it!
  36. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 10:50 pm
    More legal guns means less crime? That`s an indisputable fact. The real question is, how do you get liberals to give a rat`s ass about facts?
  37. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:56 pm
    ...keep going America, you`re only 400 x worse than us! It`ll get better!
    Actually, I`d say we have a bit of catching up to do.

  38. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14625 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 12:20 am
    "Actually, I`d say we have a bit of catching up to do."

    Typical answer from someone arguing a weak position. I call Godwin`s Law and you have lost.
  39. Profile photo of ElijaBlack
    ElijaBlack Male 18-29
    275 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 3:38 am
    www.i was bored but now im in the middle of an argument.com
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 5:09 am
    @Draculya: Who`s to say those are Nazi murders? There`s PLENTY more to go around!
    Russia (Tsar)
    Russia (Lenin)
    Russia (Stalin)
    Japan
    Turkey
    France & Britain (post WW2)
    China
    Rwanda
    Cambodia
    Mexico (Drug Lords)

    & etc.

    To compare "gun crime" in the USA to MASS MURDERS in which MILLIONS died? Now THAT is "weak"...
  41. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 11:15 am
    @5cats "There`s LOTS of factors involved, I KNOW! But the gun-grabbers belief that "less guns = less crime" is just plain WRONG.

    And we (us `right wing gun nutz`) can prove it!"

    First, if that is your entire understanding of the gun control argument then you are in absolutely no position to be commenting on either side of the debate. Second, you specifically stated that more guns means less crime, and you blatantly can`t prove it. The "proof" you`re presenting doesn`t prove your point in any way, shape or form, and only a complete idiot could possibly think that it does. That was my entire point.
  42. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 11:49 am
    @paddy215: Have you been paying attention?
    Apparently? The answer is "nope".

    For example: I say I can disprove ONE of the gun-grabbers claims and you think that I think that it`s the ONLY claim gun-grabbers make? You honestly believe I`m an idiot? OF COURSE the GG makes a LOT of "other claims" too, DUH! Everyone knows that, why do you question it?

    Only a true idiot would ever say otherwise... even in the form of a question (hint, hint).

    So when you`ve paid attention, and learned about the MOST BASIC elements of the debate? Perhaps then we can talk.

    Sheesh.
  43. Profile photo of Dad4Life
    Dad4Life Male 50-59
    2081 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 4:59 pm
    And the earth has cooled by three degrees, but don;t tell the libs. They make a nice living lying to you.
  44. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 10:53 pm
    "Actually, I`d say we have a bit of catching up to do."

    Typical answer from someone arguing a weak position. I call Godwin`s Law and you have lost.
    Right, let`s all just pretend it never happened. That way it will all seem new when we do it all over again.
  45. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    May 10, 2013 at 6:21 am
    Godwin`s law an argument used when out of valid arguments bent to convey a point that history is not a valid reference......
  46. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    May 10, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    `And the earth has cooled by three degrees, but don;t tell the libs. They make a nice living lying to you.`

    What does that have to do with anything? We just hit a record CO2 high, is that normal?

    No it must be `liberal`. Do you really think your political affiliation changes facts?
  47. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    May 10, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    Also paddy215 A harp avatar? is it safe to assume you`re from N.I. ?

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