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Date: 05/29/13 06:27 PM

91 Responses to Hypocrites [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of SweepOfDeath
    SweepOfDeath Male 18-29
    938 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 6:01 pm
    Link: Hypocrites - I used to protest my lack of premarital sex. Now I`m married and I`m protesting lack of any sex.
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Rudely put, but quite accurate.
  3. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 6:38 pm

  4. Profile photo of McThstlpnts
    McThstlpnts Female 18-29
    1540 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:19 pm
    EXACTLY! Would have shared this if it wasn`t for the little bit at the end.
  5. Profile photo of hamptoninn
    hamptoninn Male 30-39
    57 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:24 pm
    Christians do not have any prohibition against eating pork, shaving, or wearing mixed cloths. The New Testament expressly says that Gentile believers (Who are 99% of Christians)do not need to keep those elements of the covenant with Israel. Divorce is strongly discouraged in the New Testament, but permitted in certain circumstances.
    The point could be stronger if it stuck to the contrast between things Christians actually believe and their behavior. (Such as the last point on no one protesting premarital sex.)
  6. Profile photo of handimanner
    handimanner Male 60-69
    2095 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm
    I doubt the writers of the new testament envisioned a religion of parrots - or maybe they did. Religion is all about power and control. Just say no. If a person believes in a higher entity, great, then that is where the power lies. Not in a book, not in a building, not in a robed priest. In an individual`s heart and actions.
  7. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:55 pm
    Christians do not have any prohibition against eating pork, shaving, or wearing mixed cloths. The New Testament expressly says that Gentile believers (Who are 99% of Christians)do not need to keep those elements of the covenant with Israel.

    Chapter and verse, please.

    Chapter and verse for the hundreds of other OT rules, with explanations as to why Christians should or should not follow them would be good too.

    When it comes to OT rules, I`m still waiting for any coherent explanation as to why Christians should follow some but not others. The only one I`ve had is "because someone has told me" and that doesn`t cut it for me.

    Now someone is going to say that the NT forbids homosexuality too...and they`ll be wrong. It doesn`t. Crappy "translations" might, but they`re altered to create NT support for a dislike of homosexuality - it`s not actually there.
  8. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    @hamptoniin: Well said! Of course the IAB Religion Flame Club already has been told this 1,000 times and STILL don`t get it...

    @handimanner: Also well said!

    Say, you DO KNOW there`s 1,000s of protests BY Muslims over these very issues, eh? And by "protest" I mean rioting, killing, setting stuff on fire, gang rape...

    No pictures of those, eh? Hummm...
  9. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 7:58 pm
    If anyone cares, I can provide chapter and verse to support my last statement, with references back to the original Greek.

    Of course, for a Christian the key point should be the teachings of Jesus. There`s no record of Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. If he didn`t care, why should Christians?
  10. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm
    Well, you can`t expect much from the criticizm of faith. In a lot of cases it`s generalizations (like this post), trying to point out ignorance, yet being painted with bias, which really only shows the ignorance of the one criticizing.
  11. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:11 pm
    Angilion: "now someone is going to say that the NT forbids homosexuality too...and they`ll be wrong. It doesn`t."

    really?
  12. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:14 pm
    Ok I`m no "expert" but doesn`t homosexuality bring fire and brimestone on the entire civilization whereas for the others just the individual?
  13. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4718 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    We get it already! Your god is a big pussy, and organized religion is for idiots. You can pray to your god to strike me down for saying he is a pussy, but he is too busy tending to my nuts. Be gentile god, and work the shaft.
  14. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:47 pm
    TheGuySmiley:

    Well, at least you didn`t try the more gamous verses from Corinthians or Timothy. You did go for the one single verse that isn`t obviously shoe-horned to fit a pre-existing wish to have your bible condemn homosexuality.

    But yes, really.

    Look at the Romans verses in context. It`s about a very specific group of people - some ex-Christians who converted to another religion and had orgies. It says that God`s punishment for their apostasy and sex was to force homosexual desires on them. Obviously, this was a punishment *for those people* only because those desires weren`t normal *for those people*. That`s even clearer in the original Greek. The English "translation" you linked to is wrong in key details, e.g. "para physin" doesn`t mean "unnatural" and doesn`t have the connotation of wrongness that "unnatural" has.

    So those verses are saying that Christians shouldn`t renounce Christianity, becom
  15. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    "Christians don`t have to do all that stuff"

    Blah blah blah
    Yes, we all know Jesus came and gave a new covenant. But the religists still cling to the one sentence that doesn`t like homos. The new testament is for them, the old testament is for everyone else to live by.
  16. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 8:52 pm
    Gah, cut off as usual:

    So those verses are saying that Christians shouldn`t renounce Christianity, become pagans and take part in orgies, or else the Christian god might force them to feel sexual desires that they hadn`t previously felt and would be unhappy with.

    Be wary about interpreting Paul`s writings. Even your own bible warns you about that (2 Peter 3:15-17).
  17. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    Anyone fancy another go?

    Go on, someone bring up Corinthians or Timothy. It`s the only other verse (they`re copies of the same verse) that could be used...and it`s an outright fake. People have added whatever group of people they didn`t like to a list of who won`t go to heaven. Just stuck it in there. 100 years ago it was masturbators. Now it`s homosexuals. Who knows what it will be in 100 years time? Insert whoever you want to condemn here.

    Some of the "translations" also remove one of the groups from the list because...who knows?

    There`s some seriously dodgy "translation" in the Christian bible, there really is.
  18. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:11 pm
    Blah blah blah
    Yes, we all know Jesus came and gave a new covenant. But the religists still cling to the one sentence that doesn`t like homos. The new testament is for them, the old testament is for everyone else to live by.

    Even the "one sentence that doesn`t like homos" in the OT can be disputed.

    It`s not certain, not certain at all, that the verse in Leviticus condemns all men who have homosex (and it`s sex-specific, so it can`t apply to women).

    The English translations are dubious, as usual. For example, "abomination" is not what "to`ebah" means (and not how it`s translated in other verses). It`s about taboos, about ritual uncleanliness.
  19. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:19 pm
    Ancient Jewish society had very strong gendered roles and breaking them was very taboo. It`s plausible to interpret that verse as condemning not homosex but the breaking of gender roles - a man doing something in a womanly way.

    It might initially sound strange, but it`s not at all strange in a culture that has strong gender roles.

    Probably the most famous historical example would be Gaius Julius Caesar. His political career was dogged by allegations regarding his relationship with the king of Bithynia. The damaging allegation wasn`t that he had sex with the king - few Romans would have cared about that. The damaging allegation was that Caesar wasn`t manly enough in his homosexual relationship with the king, that he played too womanly a role.

    Even here and now, there`s a remnant of it. Gay men who are within the ordinary range of masculinity are more accepted than gay men who are hugely feminine.
  20. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:24 pm
    The purpose of religion is to control the masses through fear. I know it drives people nuts to hear that from an atheist so maybe it will help if you hear it from a retired bishop, John Shelby Spong.
  21. Profile photo of nosecret
    nosecret Male 18-29
    62 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:39 pm
    i love how the christian is so fiercely hated on the interwebs.
    "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
    Matt 10:22
  22. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:41 pm
    That priest says he believes in life after death, but he doesn`t think it`s punishment-based. I find that idea fascinating.
  23. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:53 pm
    Holy sh*t, Angilion`s back. Long time no see fella.
  24. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3441 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:53 pm
    People protesting the existence of black holes.~~~~~ 0%
  25. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2349 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 9:56 pm
    Rudely put, but quite accurate.
    leave it to gerry to nail it on the head in the first post.
  26. Profile photo of MidPacific
    MidPacific Male 50-59
    121 posts
    May 29, 2013 at 10:15 pm
    "Don`t tell others how to live" says the guy telling others how to live.
  27. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3286 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 12:50 am
    fail
    see
    The Amish
  28. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3286 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 1:14 am
    @tommy2X4
    black holes are not real
  29. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 1:47 am
    "i love how the christian is so fiercely hated on the interwebs.
    "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
    Matt 10:22"

    I see what you did there but no... This is the lamest tactic not to mention dangerous and very very twisted: if you`re "oppressed" you`re doing gods work and you are right. Ultimately it leads to people wishing they were oppressed and trying to get to that goal.. Just look at WBC, they use their message as a trigger; "we are being harassed and oppressed thus we are right!"

    But there`s another meaning for this: if you belong to the major religion in your country/region, you are not being oppressed. You have to be in minority for that to happen.. So in that sense, christian in mecca is the same as muslim in Vatican, both are absolutely right at the same time.. Oppression is NOT a sign of true religion so don`t try to use this one.
  30. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 2:08 am
    "i love how the christian is so fiercely hated on the interwebs.
    "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
    Matt 10:22"

    I see what you did there but no... This is the lamest tactic not to mention dangerous and very very twisted: if you`re "oppressed" you`re doing gods work and you are right. Ultimately it leads to people wishing they were oppressed and trying to get to that goal.. Just look at WBC, they use their message as a trigger; "we are being harassed and oppressed thus we are right!"

    But there`s another meaning for this: if you belong to the major religion in your country/region, you are not being oppressed. You have to be in minority for that to happen.. So in that sense, christian in mecca is the same as muslim in Vatican, both are absolutely right at the same time.. Oppression is NOT a sign of true religion so don`t try to use this one.
  31. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 3:11 am
    Angilion: i was just pointing out that it`s there. But in context, most the entire chapter is urging people to live righteously, instead of unrighteously which was outlined earlier in the chapter. Even though the examples outlined do indicate those who have rejected the knowledge of God (indicating someone who had faith) it`s beside the point, because the lessons are not just for the faithfuls to profit from, but for everyone: be righteous.
  32. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 5:31 am
    The truth shall set you free, but that doesn`t mean the devil stops trying.
  33. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 5:54 am
    As expected for any book written in a span of a thousand years by different authors, the bible has elements on it that support and condemn a lot of topics, sometimes both support it in some passages and condemn it in other.
    It`s not that the bible per se is bigoted (it totally is)
    It`s that anybody can find someting in the bible to support their claims
    For example, "moderate christians" like to point out that the bible talked about the big bang and universal inflation with a passage that roughly goes "he stretches the heavens like a tent" I poo you not.
    So it`s only natural that bigots will read it selectively and conclude it supports homophobia
    But tbh, it`s more of a stretch what progressive christians do, which argue that the bible supports marriage equality, and condemns slavery and all that, when there are passages that order people to stone gays to death, allow jews to own slaves and all
    Of course it doesn`t matter what the bible says t
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:08 am
    It`s about taboos, about ritual uncleanliness.
    So @Angilion? You`re suggesting that Christians should also follow "societal norms" in their practice? Like "Render unto Caesar" and all that? :-)

    That makes excellent sense! The passage about "women covering their hair in church" is obviously no longer followed, nor should it be! Separating "custom" from "laws" is a VERY good idea!

    Thus if "society" accepted homosexuality, it wouldn`t "be a sin" to be gay. But would still be considered "worldly" like drinking and smoking (Christians are NOT supposed to be overdoing either of those things!) or other "social sins"...

    I hope I`ve conveyed that I think your point is excellent... (unlike last time... that was my bad!)
  35. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:22 am
    Wow, so much wrong here one could write a college paper about it! I`d start with someone who obviously has disdain for Christian teachings telling Christians what their faith is all about! Yeah, no need to listen to people who spend thier entire lives researching a topic, I`ll just go with your little Internet graphic.
  36. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:55 am
    Christians really need to give it up. Even they don`t follow their own religion. You can`t take your belief system and alter it so it suits your life style. If you do, then you aren`t a Christian, just someone who believes in something they made up themselves because they weren`t happy with the existing options. And if you made up your own damn religion, stop trying to pretend it`s Christianity and stop trying to push it down everyone else`s throat. The rest of us are trying to get past this embarrassment in human history and move civilization out of the dark ages. Your silly fairy tales aren`t helping.
  37. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:56 am
    Papajon. How convenient. So now you have to make an academic career out of the bible to understand it thoroughly. How drating convenient. So much for the religion of the poor and the meek I guess!
    Wake up, the only reason there is bible research is precisely to make up complex excuses for bashing gays but not shrimp. It`s not that it started with study and then arrived to the conclusion that gay people are sinful but not all the rest, it went the other way around: they started with the conclusion and then went around the bible to support their excuse.
    That is not research, that is not knowledge, that is fan fiction at best.
    Btw there`s nothing wrong with taking a premise you don`t agree with (in this case that what the bible says is relevant to reality) and drawing conclusions out of it. Hell, it is the definition of being hypothetical, a sign of critical thinking.
  38. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:58 am
    papajon0s1:
    "no need to listen to people who spend thier entire lives researching a topic, I`ll just go with your little Internet graphic."
    -----
    Actually, you`ll find that most Atheists know more about religion than most "Christians". I grew up Catholic. I read the Bible from front to back. I also read several other religious books. The more I read, the more evident it became that the whole thing was ludicrous and ridiculous.

    There are two types of religious folks. Those who know it`s not real but are afraid to admit it and those who have been so severely brainwashed they are afraid to look at the evidence.
  39. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:05 am
    "Actually, you`ll find that most Atheists know more about religion than most "Christians"."

    No, you will find more Atheists know more exact phrasing of obscure passages than most Christians because the vast majority of Christians understand the concept of interpretation. Just take the big bang for example. The Bible says God created the universe. Science says that the big bang likely created the universe. Almost every mainstream Christian faith has said "Well, there`s no reason that God didn`t create the universe WITH the big bang so we`ll interpret that section in a reasonable way that fits both with our beliefs and the modern understanding of the universe."

    If you don`t understand the basic concept of how Christians can adapt their beliefs to fit with modern concepts of the world without abandoning deist principles then you do NOT understand Christianity.
  40. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:06 am
    Also if we want to talk about hypocrites let us consider for a moment that if you are going to argue that Christianity promotes hate then perhaps you should do it in a way that isn`t outwardly hateful of Christians such as calling the entire religion "pooty" because of the actions of some very vocal fundamentalists who aren`t the majority.
  41. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:07 am
    Really, the graphic can use profanity that I am not allowed to use in the comments section?
  42. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:12 am
    @Kilgore89,
    First off, the "Big Bang" doesn`t prove or disprove God. Therefor it is moot. And...attaching your beliefs onto the "science star" is a cute, but you can`t alter the Bible to make it work with science.

    No, the question here is, should a Christian be able to follow the rules they like and ignore the ones they don`t? The simple answer is: no. The Bible; The "Word of God" should be followed and believed, to the letter. If you don`t, then you are a hypocrite.

    I read an article the other day where the Catholic Church, in an attempt to allow people to eat meat on Fridays (I trust you only eat fish on fridays, right?), declared that the beaver, being a fantastic swimmer, was a fish. Therefor, you can eat beaver meat on Fridays.
  43. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:15 am
    Kilgore: if the bible can be reinterpreted to fit any fact known through parallel means like science or reason, then it is useless. You`ve just admitted than it provides absolutely NO insight of reality of its own, but rather it is vague enough for intelectually feeble people who have an emotional need for religion to shoehorn it into reality.
    Also, the bible doesn`t say that god just "created the universe" there are two accounts (which, OBVIOUSLY contradict each other) on how he did it, with chronology and all. If interpreting the bible is picking and choosing which passages are metaphorical and which are factual based on which are true or false, then the same can be done with Harry potter. I`ll start
    1) avada kedavra is a green light coming out of a wand
    Some radioactive materials have a green glow, and reactors use wand(bar)-shaped material as fuel.
    therefore harry potter predicted nuclear power.
    (i know it came later but unless you`re thick, you`ll ge
  44. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:19 am
    Killgore: yeah i hate christianity. drating sue me. It promotes superstition over rationality. It undermines science favouring revelation over evidence. It stunts the mind and breeds hatred. Just because there are a lot of people who, while believing that bullpoo, are too moral to actually follow it by the book, resorting to excuses like you do, doesn`t mean the religion itself takes credit.
    That "vocal minority" are those who adhere to the bible much, much more than the moderates. They represent christianity more because well.. they follow it more!
    Now i know that jesus said we should all love one another but that is only a contradiction with other passages which explicitly say the contrary, both in the OT and the NT
  45. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:19 am
    Well first off I`m not Catholic so I`ll eat whatever I damn well please (though as an Anglican I am obligated to drink myself into a stupor as oft as I may do so).

    Second, I guess you don`t know as much about Christianity as you think given that Christian scholars and entire denominations recognise the Bible as a) written by humans, b) containing human accounts of historic events based on oral tradition and personal accounts and c) some stuff that God said. Take a look at the Gospels for example; why would God tell that story 4 different ways? The Bible is a set of stories that can be used as a tool to understand what God wants. Which is typically love and tolerance which is why most of us are not homophobic - just the crazies who give the rest of us a bad name.

    Third, considering the Bible has been translated through at least 3 languages I see no problem in accepting that some translations are flawed and adjusting the teachings of the church accordingly.
  46. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:26 am
    Is there such a religion that believes the bible was written as a tool to life? Man written fables to aid in the struggles of life- teaching morals and values?

    I believe in God, but my God isn`t judge mental, unkind or hateful. My God loves all people. My God gave us free will and wanted us to be unique in our own ways. My God didn`t create everyone differently just to turn into the same people with the same likes and dislikes living the same lives as everyone else.

    And lastly, I believe the bible reads what you need it to read. I`ve taken a passage differently depending on what was going on in my life at the time I`ve read it. Again, just a tool to aid in my life`s struggles.

    What does that make me?
  47. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:27 am
    Kilgore89,
    Being an Anglican is a perfect example. Most facets of religion were created so that folks could alter something. The Anglican church was created because King Henery (the eighth?) wanted a divorce but divorce was illegal in the Catholic church so he had his own religion created. A prefect example of someone changing the rules to suit them. And now...years later, you follow that religion that ignores some of the laws in the Bible to worship...
  48. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:27 am
    The entire reason that there are different denominations of Christianity is because there is obvious disagreement over what the different rules are. But why an entire denomination makes a ruling that x has been misinterpreted and that it should actually read "don`t be a dick" because that makes waaaay more sense in the context of the Bible it is perfectly valid.

    Go take a liberal arts or social sciences class or something, not everything can be demonstrated through concrete evidence and often in non-religious society all we have to go on is interpretation and best guesses.

    Plus some of us use modern translations of the Bible, not the New Standard Nazi Hate Version that apparently every atheist ever seems to be reading.
  49. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:29 am
    Kilgore. If you`re already gonna pick and choose which parts of the bible are meant to be followed and which aren`t, just do away with the whole drating thing and think for yourself, which is what you`re already doing by picking and choosing! I know it`s unconfortable at first to realise that god doesn`t even exist but come on, read the bible, if there is a god, he wouldn`t have failed so miserably in conveying his message. Peoeple read the holy book and it can justify their bigotry, after all!
  50. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:31 am
    Kilgore89,
    That`s just it, you aren`t allowed to "interpret" things that are written in plain English. If it says, "No meat on Fridays" then you can`t interpret that any other way. If you eat meat on Fridays then you are breaking the rules of the Bible and you God will punish you for it.

    If you take the time to read the Bible, you will see that God is an evil, spiteful creation. Murdering and killing. He is filled with hate and will damn you to an eternity of Hell fire just for questioning him.
  51. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:33 am
    "The Anglican church was created because King Henery (the eighth?) wanted a divorce but divorce was illegal in the Catholic church so he had his own religion created. A prefect example of someone changing the rules to suit them. And now...years later, you follow that religion that ignores some of the laws in the Bible to worship..."

    False. Again, it looks like your knowledge of Christianity is based on incorrect pop culture.

    King Henry had already had a divorce once before but political pressures on the Pope at the time prevented him from granting a second divorce. So Henry declared the Monarch the head of the Church in England but aside from that change, the entire faith remained 100% Catholic including beliefs, practices and teachings.

    Later on, Elizabeth who approved of the protestant movement started by Martin Luther as a backlash to the backwards and repressive teachings of the Catholic church at the time created the Anglican Church with prote
  52. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:37 am
    "Kilgore. If you`re already gonna pick and choose which parts of the bible are meant to be followed and which aren`t, just do away with the whole drating thing and think for yourself, which is what you`re already doing by picking and choosing! I know it`s unconfortable at first to realise that god doesn`t even exist but come on, read the bible, if there is a god, he wouldn`t have failed so miserably in conveying his message. Peoeple read the holy book and it can justify their bigotry, after all!"

    Even if I accept your premise that religion has been horribly skewed by people that it is drastically divorced, it does not logically follow that there is no God.

    I can`t speak for all faiths, just the Anglican Church of Canada, but our teachings are that the Bible is simply a tool designed to help us find God on our own terms. There are some basic rules to follow (10 to be precise) but aside from that, we are encouraged to let God`s teachings inform our own rati
  53. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:38 am
    Christians don`t have to observe the laws of kashruth or that of the rounding of the corners of the face or the prohibition on shatnez (the mixing of linen and wool) but that doesn`t mean that there aren`t still people who observe these ancient customs. Conversely, Jews are permitted to divorce and the Torah doesn`t prohibit premarital sex.
  54. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 7:42 am
    Kilgore89,
    Ask yourself this, people are born into a religion; The majority of the time, following the religion of their parents. How convenient was it that you were born and raised in a country that follows the "one true religion"? How terrible is it that your God made someone be born in a country that is Muslim and now, because of his decision to put them there, they are following the wrong religion and will burn in Hell forever?

    You are an Anglican because you grew up Anglican. Why do the other Anglicans believe in God? Easy, because there parents did. Mix the "lies from birth" with good old fashion weekly brainwashing at church and you have an ongoing belief system that has lasted for thousands of years. However, take one good look at it and it completely falls apart.
  55. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:14 am
    No, the question here is, should a Christian be able to follow the rules they like and ignore the ones they don`t? The simple answer is: no.
    @patchouly: The concept of IRONY, you are familiar, yes?
    You`re telling someone else that THEY are not allowed to tell you how to form your own belief system. = Nice!
    In short: You make up your own mind about "God" but tell other`s they`re NOT allowed to! They have to follow rules imposed BY YOU... or else!

    That`s just it, you aren`t allowed to "interpret" things that are written in plain English.
    Sez WHO? Sez YOU? pfft! Also: it wasn`t written IN ENGLISH! Geez Louise!
    If it says, "No meat on Fridays"
    It doesn`t. Please tell me you`re joking, right?

    @HalfPintRoo: That makes you... A Deist! Welcome to the club! We have cookies...
  56. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:16 am
    There`s also nobody protesting BEING gay. The problem comes when a deeply-held and critical institution is attacked and dismantled. We were just minding our own business, living and letting live, when suddenly, marriage itself is attacked and redefined to mean something it was never meant to be.

    You want to engage in behavior the Bible says is sinful, fine, just do it and leave the rest of us out of it. As soon as you start imposing your skewed, bizarre and sacrilegious beliefs on the rest of us, that`s when you get a butt-load of people pissed off and protesting.
  57. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:18 am
    @5Cats,
    In no way is this my imposing my beliefs on you. The Bible sets the rules, I`m just pointing out how hypocritical it is to ignore your own rules.
  58. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:20 am
    AvatarJohn,
    Marriage is NOT a religious thing. It was made out to be by the church. If anything, we were sitting there minding OUR own business when you guys came along and hijacked it.

    I was married at city hall. No God involved whatsoever. Don`t try to tell me that I can`t be married because you fariytale God wasn`t involved in the process.
  59. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:26 am
    @patchouly
    You are literally arguing that there is only one correct - or dare I say true - way to interpret the Bible and that all other interpretations are wrong. You then go on to try and convince everyone who disagrees with your belief in a single-interpretation text to conform to your view set. That is, by definition attempting to impose your views on others; I will admit you do try to do so logically and rationally with the Socratic method, but you are ultimately trying to convince everyone else to accept your way of viewing things.

    And again, go to Chapters, pick up two different copies of the Bible and they will say different things. It is called translation and the fact that none of us speak or read Aramaic means that we have to make our best reasoned interpretations.
  60. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2211 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:27 am
    Gays are `dismantling` marriage?

    LOL. That word does not mean what you think it means. But then religious people are usually pretty stupid, so that comes as no surprise.
  61. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:33 am
    Avatarjon.. you really think christianity invented marriage? how cute.
    you merely adopted it into your beliefs, and wrote passages aruing that it came from god himself, but societies earlier than the Jews already had marriages. Don`t try to excuse your bigotry with traditionalism.. if a tradition is bigot, it has to go.
    Kilgore: yeah, i know that it does not follow that god can`t exist because the bible is flawed.
    but please, i urge you, what reason do you have to believe that there is a creator, specially after you have to make up so much excuses for his alleged message to be so unscientific AND bigoted?
  62. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:35 am
    And yes, I guess it is terrible that I live in a country where I can not only see the Mosque from my balcony, but walk past it on my way to Church. It`s a good thing that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the exact same God. I would hate to be born in one of those countries where they are Muslim and worship the same God as me AND support religious freedom to the point where Muslims rally around Christian Churches to prevent attacks from radicals while the Christians pray.

    And let`s take a look at logical fallacy for a moment. If the statement

    if A=true then B=true

    is correct, we cannot presuppose that the statement

    A=false therefore B=false

    is also correct. This is a basic logical fallacy.

    Now substitute "Absolute truth of the Bible" for A, and "Existence of God" for B. You will see that logically, your argument that Biblical inaccuracy disproves deist thought is logically unsound.
  63. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:41 am
    "but please, i urge you, what reason do you have to believe that there is a creator, specially after you have to make up so much excuses for his alleged message to be so unscientific AND bigoted?"

    I don`t make up excuses for his message to be unscientific and bigoted. I simply suggest that content has been lost in translation which is far from an excuse, we accept that much of our history is misinterpreted or lost for this reason. Bigots will always read bigotry where they can.

    As far as unscientific, I see no reason why God`s message doesn`t fit with scientific principles. The theory of relativity can account for the discrepancy between a 7 day creation and millenia of evolution, multiverse theory can account for the existence of `heaven` that we cannot see, quantum mechanics can account for a power that we can neither see nor understand but shapes the universe.
  64. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:46 am
    And as far as what reason I have, I choose to believe - and to be fair I believe this from a purely philosophical standpoint - that logically, given our understanding of just how many millions of things have to occur in exactly the right way for something as simple as molecules to combine to form a basic element, it makes more sense that there is some guiding force seeing to it that the right preconditions exist rather than the entire universe existing simply as a fluke.

    There is just too much in existence for it to all be random chance.
  65. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:48 am
    But Kilgore89, you are still molding the belief system you formed, based on what your parents told you, so that it fits todays knowledge. The original system is completely flawed. If you chose to ignore the Bible, then what are you basing your belief system on? Did you just make it up?

    As for the other argument. What about Hindus? They don`t believe in the same God as you. They believe what they believe because your God put them there and they grew up believing it was true. What sort of God what do that to someone? Condemn them to Hell because of where he chose to have them be born.
  66. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:54 am
    Kilgore89:
    " it makes more sense that there is some guiding force seeing to it that the right preconditions exist rather than the entire universe existing simply as a fluke."
    ---------

    Not at all. In no way shape of form does "the Universe is complex" lead to "there is a God"; any more than "I won 10 million in the lottery" does. Amazing things happen. Life occurs. Evolution explains the changes from simple to what we have today. The complexity of the Universe is really not that complex. It is simply a large number of things to look at and consider. They all interact with each other because they are all part of this same Universe.
  67. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 8:57 am
    Kilgore I apologise for making more than two points in the same comment.
    yes it is illogical to conclude that god doesn`t exist because the bible is infallible. but you seem to be missing the point, that you`ve got no reason to believe at all.
    and no, relativity and quantum physics cannot make a case for magic. We know how the universe started, we know it wasn`t in 7 days. Just because you don`t know much about relativity doesn`t mean it can be twisted to support bullcrap.
  68. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 9:01 am
    Molecules forming a basic element huh? once more, the sole cause for belief is just profound ignorance. Elements are kinds of atoms, atoms form molecules because o the same reason positive charges attract negative ones.
    And answering natural mysteries with god just opens the door for much, much more difficult things to explain... impossible things to be precise.
  69. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 9:17 am
    @patchouly I don`t choose to ignore the Bible. I have studied it in an academic setting as an historical document and a literary document and in Church I have had it presented to me as a religious text. Based on my academic understanding of literature, philosophy and history, I am able to accept that that WRITTEN text of the Bible is 100% created by humans and that there are therefore flaws with a literal adoption of scripture.

    I also am able to see context such as narrative context in which something presented as fact in Book 1 may change by Book 18 in the context of showing the history and traditions of a people changing over time. Or historical context where perhaps a story is exaggerated through oral tradition (I suspect Goliath was a simply `giant` like Andre the Giant) in order to drive home an important point.

    Modern religious teaching embrace this and tend to suggest a need to search a deeper meaning of the words.
  70. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 9:27 am
    @yoda141
    Relativity suggests that perception of time and other measurements varies based on the observer. Purely for argument sake consider the classic example of the space traveler in which time appears to move at a different rate for the person inside and outside the space ship.

    Assuming purely for the sake of argument that God exists and was the only person around at the beginning of time, the creation story would have to have been told by God to a scribe.

    If this is the case, God`s experience as the observer may have resulting in the perception of a 7 day passage of time which would have been what was conveyed to the writer of the Book of Genesis (and there is dispute over who this was). However, from our perception as observers, in actuality eons have passed.

  71. Profile photo of Kegomatix
    Kegomatix Male 18-29
    1341 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 9:31 am
    Beat the hell out of that dead horse.

    Does anyone actually think they are going to change someones beliefs by arguing religion over an internet forum? Seriously, is that the actual goal here?
  72. Profile photo of Kilgore89
    Kilgore89 Male 18-29
    194 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 9:46 am
    Does anyone actually think they are going to change someones beliefs by arguing religion over an internet forum? Seriously, is that the actual goal here?

    Not one iota. The closest I expect to ever get is to convince somebody that perhaps not all Christians are intolerant jerks incapable of intelligent or original thought.

    It really does suck to be told that you are unconditionally a bigot and/or an mindless schlep. Though I`m sure nobody on the internet would understand what that is like.
  73. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 10:49 am
    How the eye can evolve.

    Many use the concept of `irreducible complexity` to say that the eye could never have evolved. They suggest that it`s too complex, and that you can`t just evolve part of an eye and have it be beneficial, you need the whole thing at once. Here, Richard Dawkins in a hilarious shirt demonstrates how that could happen, and later references a study that demonstrated this under randomized conditions.
  74. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 10:50 am
    Yeah, ANOTHER bash religion thread on IAB. The creativity engine is just working over time here.
  75. Profile photo of som-tam
    som-tam Male 18-29
    713 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 10:53 am
    leviticus is the old testiment so unless those people are jews then they aren`t really hypocrites. So calling someone`s beliefs `pooty` when you don`t have a full understanding of them is a little idiotic.
  76. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 10:56 am
    Uh, my link was relevant. Somebody trotted out irreducible complexity as a basis for belief earlier on
  77. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 11:23 am
    Kilgore89,
    Being the "only thing around" does not make time slow down. Time dilation occurs as you approach the speed of light. So, unless your God was traveling near the speed of light (and I can`t see any reason why he would have been), then the argument is invalid.
  78. Profile photo of canusuck
    canusuck Male 30-39
    777 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 11:47 am
    My cats breath smells like cat food----think about it....
  79. Profile photo of robthelurker
    robthelurker Male 18-29
    2685 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 11:49 am
    im a huge hypocrite, but at least i admit it. it is wrong for some one to hit another, unless of course im the one doing the hitting.
  80. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm
    @5cats

    I really want a cookie now. No joke.
  81. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 2:13 pm
    @HalfPintRoo: While looking for "a virtual cookie" to give you I found this:



    Mouse shaped cookies! Will they be ok?

    @5Cats,
    In no way is this my imposing my beliefs on you. The Bible sets the rules, I`m just pointing out how hypocritical it is to ignore your own rules.
    @patchouly: Well, parts of The Bible say one thing (Old Testament), and other parts (like the Gospels) say something different!
    So it`s OK for Christians to ignore ONE part of the Bible if it`s been "replaced by" a different part. As others have mentioned, this is NOT hypocrisy at all.
  82. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    We know how the universe started...
    @yoda141: But do we know WHY? :-/ Also the `how` is an unprovable theory, which is highly likely but not >> in and of itself << proof of anything.

    Molecules forming a basic element huh?
    Um, yeah! Your mockery betrays your own ignorance:

    In the beginning there was H, He and Li. ALL the other "elements" came later! So YES by golly! They combined to "form the basic elements" of the Periodic Table as we understand it.

    @Kilgore`s "logical flaw" is that something special HAD TO happen to MAKE it happen a certain way (and all other ways are "impossible"? Somehow this gets inferred too.). This is his mistake, not what you blabbed about...
  83. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm

  84. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 2:59 pm
    "Uh, my link was relevant."
    I see that @DrProfessor found the flaw! LOLZ! True enough.

    "My cats breath smells like cat food---"
    @canusuck: Simpsons reference = FTW! (The Wit and Wisdom of Ralph Wiggum)

    Season 6 Episode 2 The internet has lots of useless information! I bent my wookie :-(

  85. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    The Anglican church was created because King Henery (the eighth?) wanted a divorce but divorce was illegal in the Catholic church so he had his own religion created.

    That`s only partially true. Divorce was perhaps the final trigger, but I think it`s fair to say that it wasn`t the main cause.

    There had been conflict between the church and the state for centuries and it was getting worse. The main issue was who was the dominant power in England - the pope or the monarch of England? The church had more money and in some ways more power than the crown. Henry VIII resolved the problem by using the form of power he had more of - military - to enforce his declaration that he was head of both of the most powerful institutions of the day - church and crown. Then he stole most of the church`s money.

    I think it`s fair to say that it was more about the ongoing issue of money and power than about the divorce that was the trigger.
  86. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    We were just minding our own business, living and letting live, when suddenly, marriage itself is attacked and redefined to mean something it was never meant to be.

    I agree, wholeheartedly.

    Christianity should never have done that to marriage.






    Oh, that`s not what you meant? You think it`s OK when you lot did it? What a surprise!

    Christianity has no legitimate claim on marriage, none at all. It was a clear-cut power grab by the church in the late medieval period.

    Get the drat out of redefining marriage. You have no right to do so and you have no right to be hypocritical about it.

    You want religion attached to the word "marriage"? OK...it`s a Latin word predating Christianity, so the appropriate religion is the ancient Roman one...or it would be, if Roman marriage was religious, which it wasn`t (except for an archaic and very rare form). Religion was often added, but it wasn`t th
  87. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    May 30, 2013 at 6:29 pm
    @5cats Mmm- thanks much
  88. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    May 31, 2013 at 5:29 am
    Too bad kilgore, that if you read the bible, it.. clearly.. calls a day the setting and rising of the sun. So no matter how many mental gymnastics you apply, you can`t avoid the fact that just 7 sunsets and 7 sunrises occured during the creation week myth. Go read the bible if you don`t believe me.
    But let me guess, that is an error of the scribe, right?
    Let`s just cut right to the chase: what method do you apply to the bible to find out whether a particular passage is divinely inspired, or forged/altered in some way? Because if you call the things that are right, or haven`t been proven wrong "divinely inspired" and the ones that are wrong "forgery" that is just covering the bible`s tracks.
    Btw i know that most christians are not bigoted. But i can`t understand moderate christians. They hold a book as sacred yet they insist most of it is bullpoo. They believe in evolution, the bloodiest, most murderous way i can concieve of generating biodiversity, yet t
  89. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    May 31, 2013 at 8:28 am
    @5Cats
    Well, parts of The Bible say one thing (Old Testament), and other parts (like the Gospels) say something different!
    So it`s OK for Christians to ignore ONE part of the Bible if it`s been "replaced by" a different part. As others have mentioned, this is NOT hypocrisy at all.

    Then could you please explain how a perfect being didn`t get his own rules right the first time? Why would he say one thing, then change his mind later? If perfect, his original declaration should have been without flaw. Why was it not okay to wear mixed fabrics, but then it was? Why did pork go from forbidden to okay?
  90. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    May 31, 2013 at 6:15 pm
    False. Again, it looks like your knowledge of Christianity is based on incorrect pop culture.



    Later on, Elizabeth who approved of the protestant movement started by Martin Luther as a backlash to the backwards and repressive teachings of the Catholic church at the time created the Anglican Church


    They`re right. You`re not.

    The Church of England (i.e. the Anglican church) was created by Henry VIII of England taking control of the church in England, seperating it from Rome (the Catholic church).

    The Anglican church later became a protestant church, but that`s not when it was created.
  91. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 2, 2013 at 2:10 pm
    Angilion: i was just pointing out that it`s there.

    But it isn`t - your interpretation isn`t the only one and it makes less sense than mine.

    But in context, most the entire chapter is urging people to live righteously, instead of unrighteously which was outlined earlier in the chapter. Even though the examples outlined do indicate those who have rejected the knowledge of God (indicating someone who had faith) it`s beside the point, because the lessons are not just for the faithfuls to profit from, but for everyone: be righteous.

    And "be righteous" in those verses most likely applies to what was being stated to be unrighteous in those verses - leaving Christianity.

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