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Date: 05/08/13 01:25 PM

31 Responses to Final Embrace, Dhaka Factory Collapse. Grim.

  1. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm
    Link: Final Embrace, Dhaka Factory Collapse. Grim. - The price of cheap garments. They had dreams like ours. They are now statistics.
  2. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    Oh geez that`s terrible! This is why I look at were everything I buy is made if given a choice I`ll go with a country that I know pays and treats workers with some value. Unfortunatly there`s alot of times you don`t have a choice.
  3. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    It`s the Bangladeshi government`s fault, not ours. They have sovereignty over their country, we don`t. We aren`t the world`s policemen and we don`t own them and are not responsible for their actions or policies.

    Also, I`d be happy to pay more for clothing if it were made in Iowa and was actually a quality item that lasted more than 6 months. The dirty little secret, though, is that the price of clothing items relative to average wages hasn`t actually gone down a whole lot in the West since western clothing manufacturing became scarce. And now it`s basically the exportation of money to the 3rd world.
  4. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    @Andrew155

    All for profit.

    Sidenote my sister got married last weekend and I bought a suit for it at Macys after searching I miraculously found a Ralph Lauren one made in Canada! SOLD!
  5. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5875 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    McGovern1981-"All for profit."

    Actually, all due to corruption:

    Bangladesh has a long history of poor work conditions.

    This very building had been evacutated due to damage the day before, but supervisors ordered them back to work. The owners ignored a warning not to allow workers in the building.

    Builders usually ignore building regulations.

    Owners, builders and government have a long history of corruption.

    We have no say-so over how that country runs things.

    I`d prefer to buy USA, but most of our textile plants and garment industry have been put out of business.
  6. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    `the price of clothing items relative to average wages hasn`t actually gone down a whole lot in the West since western clothing manufacturing became scarce. `

    I don`t know the situation in the US, but in the UK garments are much cheaper in supermarkets and other outlets than they used to be. Relative to income. They are effectively sold as disposable after a few uses.
  7. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    `not responsible for their actions or policies. `

    Obviously not. But the corporations who buy their product, and whose product we buy, absolutely have the power to insist on decent conditions if they choose to do so. No producer is going to mess with Walmart or Tesco or Primark if they say that humane conditions are required.

    But we don`t require it.
  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36187 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Caption Fail
    As if it`s my fault the building collapsed because someone sold me t-shirts @ low low prices.

    How about the greedy rich men in that country who make a ton of money but don`t provide safe working conditions? Why not blame them?
  9. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5875 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:36 pm
    LordJim-"But the corporations who buy their product, and whose product we buy, absolutely have the power to insist on decent conditions"

    Not so much.

    Sure, they can `demand` what they want and threaten to take their business elseware.

    They`ll end up paying more due to the increased manufacturing costs, or end up paying more from another supplier.

    Guess who else ends up paying more?


    The condition of that factory building had nothing to do with the buyer of the clothing.

    It had entirely to do with the corruption of the building company, the government and the owners of the property.

    The building was not built to code? How could that happen? Corrupt contractors, corrupt suppliers, corrupt inspectors, corrupt government.
  10. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:43 pm
    Gerry,

    `As if it`s my fault ...`

    Sorry about that. Heaven forfend I imply you are at fault.The client is always at a decent remove from the unpleasantness. Just look at the price tag and move along. Nothing to see here.

  11. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    MeGrendel,

    I agree about the hopelessly corrupt system in Bangladesh and elsewhere where we get our products made. It`s so messed up, but it saves us a little money.
    I agree that a client which insisted on basic standards would end up paying a few cents more on the garment. But literally a few cents.

    In the garment trade, the power is with the buyers.

  12. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2763 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:10 pm
    Awe :(
  13. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5875 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:25 pm
    LordJim-"But literally a few cents."

    Upon what do you base this? Labor costs are THE most significat cost in manufacturing.

    LordJim-"In the garment trade, the power is with the buyers."

    I dissagree. For every demand the buyer makes of the manufacturer, the price goes up.

    Want it packaged differently? Price goes up.
    Want it labeled differently? Price goes up.
    Demand 30 minute lunch and two breaks a day for workers? Price goes up.
    Demand safe working conditions? Price goes up.

    Buyer is now paying much more money.

    What does the buyer get in return for the four increases in price? I new package, a new label, and some PICTURES of worker on break in a safe building...(of course, that never actually happens due to corruption, but the pictures look nice).
  14. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:28 pm
    Even if corporations demanded decent working conditions, that`s no guarantee that the company will follow through. They may put up a nice front to inspectors, while the real work gets done in another unsafe factory across town.
  15. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:35 pm
    `Demand safe working conditions? Price goes up. `

    Fair enough, let`s not do that. In case it costs more than a few pennies.

    To stop this happening.
  16. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6650 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm
    `They may put up a nice front to inspectors,`

    Wouldn`t it be nice if our mass retailers actually took notice of their product chain? Knew when products were being sourced from hell-holes and told us so? Put real inspectors in place. Not difficult.

  17. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    The price between the suit I got and the others was minor actually I could`ve bought a bigger name for more made in a place like this. It`s about money for the Corp.
  18. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    such a sad picture.. sad, like pompeii. sad, this could have been prevented. sad, this is because of greed. sad, we haven`t yet learned ;(
  19. Profile photo of CynicalGamer
    CynicalGamer Male 40-49
    450 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 5:00 pm
    @TheGuySmiley - I thought the same thing. Sad. A great picture though. Not because of the tragedy surrounding it but the message behind it. At least in the end they didn`t die alone.
  20. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36187 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    @ LordJim, America does plenty of stuff wrong but we are not responsible for every bad thing that happens on the entire planet. We`re condemned whenever we go into a country and tell them what to do, we`re condemned if we don`t change a country and something like this happens.

    We had our sweat-shop working class. As a society we evolved beyond it {mostly}. Maybe they need to grow and evolve on their own, at their own pace. It is not for us to set the standards for the whole world to live by.
  21. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 6:47 pm
    Pompeii was the first thing that came to my mind as well.
  22. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 8:41 pm
    No one part of the garment value chain accounts for the vast majority of the profits.

  23. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 8:45 pm
    "`Demand safe working conditions? Price goes up. `

    Fair enough, let`s not do that. In case it costs more than a few pennies.

    To stop this happening."

    Let`s say we buy from a premium brand on the basis of their global environmental and ethical standpoint. I can think of no better example than Benetton; this is pretty much their entire corporate message "buy our expensive stuff and we`ll make sure it was made ethically"



    OOPS!
  24. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 8:56 pm
    We are all partly guilty, but none of us is particularly responsible.

    The consumer will buy whatever is fashionable and of reasonable quality, according to his/her budget. If he/she bought a lesser quantity of more expensive clothing, the factory workers in poor countries would have less work.

    Brands meet consumer demand. But price in-elasticity means they have to source cheaply. Factoring in the cost of brand management, I don`t see many brand owners offering a super-duper proposition in terms of return on capital vs risk.

    Factory owners cut costs because of cut-throat competition. All the garment and toy factory owners I know in China are suffering very badly. Many are getting out of the business.

    Factory workers have no choice. They get what work is going. If they unionise, business will go elsewhere.

    Governments try to apply the rules, but the laws are out of date or hard to enforce. If too strict, business goes elsewhere.
  25. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 9:31 pm
    The solution, however imperfect, is to talk about the problem as we are doing here. We must identify how we can each change and then do it.

    As consumers, we should identify where true value lies and buy widely. Learn to recognise good materials and workmanship and prize it above advertising. Learn about the value chain and certification organisations and buy only from those whose processes and sources you agree with.

    Buy locally made products. I`m not just talking about "MADE IN USA", I mean made by local businesses hiring local people. I personally do not buy high street fashion. My clothes, even my work shoes, are locally hand made. It is economical; most of my shoes have been resoled more than once and are still as good as new. My shirts and suits last years and never go far out of fashion. ...
  26. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 9:33 pm
    ... (continued)

    It is true that this doesn`t help Bangladeshi sweat-shop workers, but I buy other high quality products and I am creating a demand for products made by better trained people who can demand better conditions.
  27. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    May 8, 2013 at 11:29 pm
    I buy virtually everything I wera secondhand. Most of it is very high quality- firstly because I like good stuff and this is the only way I can afford it- but more importantly, it lasts- some of my clothes are more then 20-30 years old and still in good wearable condition. cheap, disposable fashion to feed a growth economy- to make us keep spending. i know people who buy clothes every weekend- and they pay a pound or two for a jumper. It is so wrong, as this is what we cause to happen. If we all paid a significant amount more, bought high quality garments made to last perhaps this kind of tragedy would stop.
  28. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13600 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 12:22 am
    madduck

    `I buy virtually everything I wera secondhand`

    same here gal

    that pic is so sad
    stared at it for a long time,
    poor poor souls
  29. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 6:01 am
    @madduck @ferdyfred

    Same here, i`d add that i find it insane to pay for the advertisement campaign, and the oppertunity to become a walking bilboard. What the ? On the other hand i`d be happy to pay extra knowing it was made by people who have good working conditions/decent pay.
    (like max havelaar, but that`s only food)



  30. Profile photo of blackcatseye
    blackcatseye Female 30-39
    685 posts
    May 9, 2013 at 11:39 am
    In the 1800s in Britain there were cotton mills and garment factories where people worked their fingers to the bone until they dropped from exhaustion, for very poor wages. Children as young as eight were employed for pennies a week. Some of those buildings are still standing, the others didn`t fall down, they were demolished. This is a whole new level of hell. Also, how come my US branded jeans are made in Pakistan but the US want to bomb the crap out of Pakistan?
  31. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    May 10, 2013 at 6:26 am
    Also, how come my US branded jeans are made in Pakistan but the US want to bomb the crap out of Pakistan?

    Short answer $$$. Longer answer would be that the US government can`t dictate where a corporation sets up factories or the people(directly). If they could they probably wouldn`t be getting made there.

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