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Category: Weird
Date: 05/22/13 04:32 PM

40 Responses to 10 Interesting Facts About Chernobyl

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    Link: 10 Interesting Facts About Chernobyl - Wait... You`re putting wolves in radioactive areas? Haven`t you heard of werewolves people?
  2. Profile photo of robthelurker
    robthelurker Male 18-29
    2871 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    i dont think radiation can cause lycanthropy. besides being passed through bites and genetics, im pretty sure it usually starts with some type of gypsy curse or something. unless of course one of the radioactive wolves bites a meek teenager.
  3. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 7:09 pm
    11. Commies suck at doing just about everything. Example 1: Chernobyl. Example 2: Obama
  4. Profile photo of pazerlenis
    pazerlenis Male 40-49
    1380 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 7:28 pm
    Interesting fact: The former Soviet Union never had an actual communist economy. Just like the US has never actually practiced true Democracy.
  5. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4348 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 7:38 pm
    yet another reason why NZ is nuclear free...
  6. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 8:00 pm
    "Haven`t you heard of werewolves people?"

    They got it covered...
  7. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 8:51 pm
    At least 6 of these are pure "bunkum" or twisted parts of true stories.

    >The "wildlife" part is true.
    >The "Bus Tour" part is true, or you can just drive there by yourself AFTER you clear security.
    >20,000 years is crap: thousands of people still live in the "exclusion zone".
    >Only ONE "mutation" has been found thus far: a genetic quirk in Dormice...

    Also true is that the Soviets tried very hard to cover it up, and DID fail to warn nearby towns and cities. And that the Swedes (Or was it Norway?) noticed the huge radioactive cloud coming from Russia and went "Gee, what`s THAT?"

    Most of the work crew who struggled to contain the accident are dead now, almost all of them from cancer...
  8. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 10:29 pm
    The former Soviet Union never had an actual communist economy. Just like the US has never actually practiced true Democracy.
    The reason the Soviets never practiced true communism is that if everyone got an equal share regardless of their contribution, no one would have any reason to do Jack $#!+, and it would have collapsed in a matter of days.

    The reason the US has never practiced true democracy (i.e., mob rule) is that it is expressly prohibited by the constitution.

    BTW, the reason the reactor failed is that the idiot Ruskies were "experimenting" with the reactor. They deliberately overrode and defeated several layers of safety systems in order to "test its limits." Well, they found its limits, all right.

    And the reason NZ is nuke-free is 1) you`re small and mostly harmless, and 2) if anyone ever did attack you, you`re counting on Australia, the US, and the UK to step in and bail you out.
  9. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 11:21 pm
    "Just like the US has never actually practiced true Democracy"

    Nor did it ever intend to.
  10. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 22, 2013 at 11:30 pm
    pazerlenis, as somebody who majored in Russian in undergrad, this is obvious. The Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics did not have a Communist economy. They had a Socialist economy up until about 1988 when perestroika allow free enterprise. Opening up the free markets helped collapse the state. The official state ideology was communist, but the entire system was Socialist, which lends further credence to Socialism being dumb.

    I don`t know what you mean by "true" Democracy, either. If you`re talking about Direct Democracy, that`s more obvious business. That`s the sort of Democracy Plato hated in The Republic. The US should not principally be known as a Democracy though anyways. We are a Constitutional Republic that uses many Democratic principles, so basically a Constitutional Democratic Republic.
  11. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2382 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:13 am
    Yet another reason why government... oh I give up
  12. Profile photo of thefatviking
    thefatviking Male 18-29
    202 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:11 am
    @5Cats
    They guy in Sweden that discovered the radiation used to be my neighbor. He wasn`t a scientist or researcher, he was an engineering technician at a nuclear power plant. When the workers there entered or exited the plant they had to go through big Geiger counters to make sure they weren`t irradiated. That day the radiation alarm went apepoo when he tried to enter. The guys with the detectors then discovered that his shoes were covered in radiation after he walked through rain puddles to get to work.

    So no, they didn`t notice a "radioactive could coming over from Russia" They noticed that all the rain and the winds were contaminated with radioactive material from the Ukraine area, so they called up Moscow and asked WTF was going on, because at first they thought it was radiation of a bomb test. But the people in Moscow seemed unaware that anything had happened.
  13. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2382 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:34 am
    Not to be difficult but doesn`t rain come from clouds?
  14. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 7:12 am
    Not to be difficult but doesn`t rain come from clouds?

    Well yes, clouds are vaporized water in the atmosphere just like steam from a boiling pot of water. It rains when (I believe, haven`t studied it since high school) something causes the steam to condense back into water droplets. It could be from saturation or a change in temperature, much like when steaming water rests on a cooler object. Think of a bathroom mirror for example. The way the artillery shells work is that the vaporized water in the clouds will condense around the particles of silver iodine when dispersed in the atmosphere forming rain drops.

    At least I`m pretty sure that`s how it works.
  15. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 7:21 am
    The reason the Soviets never practiced true communism is that if everyone got an equal share regardless of their contribution, no one would have any reason to do Jack $#!+, and it would have collapsed in a matter of days.
    Try not to be so much of a republitard, they wouldn`t have paid people just to sit on their a$$es, you still have to work and contribute to get paid. But hey, strawmen never get old.
  16. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 8:07 am
    @thefatviking: Ah! Thanks for that! I knew about the cloud but had no idea the way it was discovered!
    Interesting!
  17. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 8:39 am
    @patchgrabber
    Try not to be so much of a republitard, they wouldn`t have paid people just to sit on their a$$es, you still have to work and contribute to get paid. But hey, strawmen never get old.

    It`s exactly what happened in 1600`s Jamestown.
    Try searching for Jamestown communism.
  18. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 9:09 am
    vv quote below refers to Plymouth, not Jamestown, but it mirrors what happened at Jamestown.
  19. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 9:19 am
    Jamestown, the first permanent English colony in America, established in Virginia in 1607, had an experience similar to .. Plymouth. Early years of starvation were followed by converting to a system of property rights and a free market, which brought abundance. Under collectivism, less than half of every shipload of settlers survived the first 12 months at Jamestown. Most of the work was done by only one-fifth of the men, to whom the socialist system gave the same rations as to the others. During the winter of 1609-10, called "The Starving Time,” the population fell from 500 to 60.

    But when Jamestown converted to a free market, there was "plenty of food, which every man by his own industry may easily and doth procure,” wrote the colony secretary Ralph Hamor in 1614. Under the previous system, he said, "we reaped not so much corn from the labors of thirty men as three men have done for themselves now.
  20. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 9:21 am
    @mrpeabody: They had a governor, that`s not pure communism. You also hold this up as a shining example of communism`s inevitable failure, without understanding the process of how communism is formed. Of course top-down communism doesn`t work. Also realize that communism could not have been attempted at that time because the means of production had not created an abundance. All communal models either fail or don`t expand because they are based on idealism and not materialism. Communism doesn`t just come out of the blue; after socialism is built and creates the sufficient resources necessary, then communism can be created through the disestablishment of the bureaucracy. That being said the pilgrims followed a bureaucratic collectivist model.
  21. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 9:34 am
    Also in Jamestown they were initially only concerned with gold and silver, of which there was none. They were so concerned for this that they didn`t plant crops.
  22. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 10:50 am
    @patchgrabber: You`re right in that it was not pure communism, but only because pure communism is a near terminal stage of communism where material and productive forces are at optimum levels to allow a freedom from any sort of necessity and thereby any government. But it requires global communism so that a no government is needed to react to influences by other remaining nation-states. Either because of war, different income classes, trade competition, or incentive to become greater than ones own society.

    Yet to reach these terminal stages of communism, the Utopian, Primitive, and/or Religious Communism`s need to actually work more effectively than free market and mixed market economies. This is what they have all failed to do and the reason why there has never been as sustainable form of communism.
  23. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 10:50 am
    It simply kills incentive, and it`s bases in socialism creates inefficiencies in price and investiture. A socialist economy does not respond to price signals, it seeks to manipulate them for a sense of quality, whether it be for morality, fairness, or well being. It bases economic planning on projections instead of current market acceptance and equilibrium price thereby investing in products that may never be needed or sold. This causes major budget inefficiencies and knowledge. It leads to an overall retardation of the economic structure of the effected society.

    Capitalism has many faults as well, monopolies, social inequality, unfair distributions of wealth and power, and a general heartlessness to name a few. But it is the most reliable form of economics because of it ability to quickly adapt to change, it`s efficiency, and that it drives incentive to better the conditions of oneself.
  24. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 11:13 am
    Communism is an economic theory that requires "abundance" to function, as you correctly said, but because of it`s inefficiencies.

    Capitalism can function in any environment and/or time and this gives it a resilience, dependability, and ubiquitous nature that communism simply does not possess.
  25. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:01 pm
    Lol, patchgrabber thinks you`re a Republitard if you think Communism is a bad and inefficient system.

    And that`s ignoring that the Soviet Union wasn`t even that extreme, they were Socialist through and through.
  26. Profile photo of Zieveraar
    Zieveraar Male 30-39
    415 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:27 pm
    Forget werewolves, think direwolves! Godzilla sized wolves destroying Moscow.

    And everybody knows that communism works, in theory anyway.
  27. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    @patchgrabber: "Also in Jamestown they were initially only concerned with gold and silver, of which there was none. They were so concerned for this that they didn`t plant crops."

    That is not true, the area chosen for the original fort was chosen because there were no native Americans.
    The native americans were not there because the soil was horrible for planting crops. It was swampland with brackish water, acidic soil, and was entrenched with roots. Not to mention it was during the worst drought in 800 years and it lasted until 1613.(obvious global warming)
    It made the water especially salty with no freshwater springs, and if that all wasn`t bad enough, they arrived too late in the year to plant crops in mid-may. Not to mention the plans called for enough seed for them to plant european crops and then acquire the rest through trade with the local indians.
  28. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    The Powhatan Indians food supplies were low the first year because of the draught and so they could not trade it. They had still dug a planting bed and tried to farm but the results were minimal. Yet they felt ok because they had brought enough supplies to make it through the winter. That was until a fire on January 7th burned the church and most of the colony’s provisions, including the food supplies.

    They even built a wall around the fields in 1608 because people began to be attacked while tilling the soil and sowing seeds. Anyone can visit the site and see exactly where it was and there are journal entries about it.

    They were desperate for food! Some joined local indian tribes for food and there is even evidence of cannibalism because of people starving. Don`t rewrite history.
  29. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm
    Lol, patchgrabber thinks you`re a Republitard if you think Communism is a bad and inefficient system.
    I think you`re confusing my refusal to accept a bad argument as tacit approval of communism, which I don`t by the way. Did you ask if I think pure communism can work in its pure form? No, you didn`t; if you had you might be surprised to find that I don`t think it would, albeit not for the reasons you think. It`s human nature that would screw it up in the long run; there are ways to combat laziness, such as (re-)introducing labour credits, but then you have to get away from the "pure" versions of these things that cannot function in their "pure" state in the first place, because you cannot assume people will conform to an ideal of what they themselves are not. You will always have to tweak the original ideology to fit your own needs.
  30. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm
    @richanddead: So if I take your assessment as accurate, and they were starving because they couldn`t plant crops, how is that due to laziness?
  31. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm
    @patchgrabber: I`m am actually unaware of how this was due to laziness. Even the "gentlemen" were helping to trade and farm.

    I believe @MrPeabody is mistakenly comparing Plymouth to the The Virginia Company report of 1610 which said as much in describing the almost universal "idleness and bestial sloth" of Jamestown`s population.

    I am unaware of the full economics of Plymouth, but I know that early Jamestown was early unsuccessful economically becauses of misplaced expectations, lack of knowledge of the area, famine and disease. It was a struggle simply to survive, I don`t think they cared about economic theories much, it was more of a Hobbs-like state of nature government, rather then then a formal government.

    I was commenting on your statement "they were initially only concerned with gold and silver, of which there was none. They were so concerned for this that they didn`t plant crops."

    Sry I was so one sided, but
  32. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    Sry I was so one sided, but I think you both were wrong. You for your comment and @MrPeabody for his link to Jamestown. Maybe I was wrong for not reading his comment more thoroughly and for that I apologize.
  33. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm
    @richanddead: I see. I was aware of the conditions of the land in Jamestown, but I was under the impression that they were more concerned with gold and silver. I must have been mistaken.
  34. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 1:37 pm
    @patchgrabber: Np, "it is human to error" as it were, especially me, as pointed out . Its one reason I appreciate these sorts of debates its humbling and enlightening all in one. Very healthy.
  35. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 2:38 pm
    Ok I read the link @MrPeabody gave and the link this link gives. Apparently the same lines he quoted at Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:19:36 AM were copy and pasted from the original political document on page 34. It references Captain Ralph Hamor`s "A True Discourse of the Present State of Virginia"

    James town was not a communism but a council government of 15 captains.

    The whole quote is:

    "When our people were fed out of the common store and laboured
    jointly in the manuring of the ground and planting corn, glad was that man that could slip from his labour, nay the most honest of them in a general business would not take
    so much faithful and true pains in a week as now he will do
    in a day; neither cared they for the increase, presuming
    that howsoever their harvest prospered, the general store must maintain them, by which means we reaped not so much
    corn from the labours of twenty men as three men have done for themselves."
  36. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 2:56 pm
    The Colony`s manpower was divided into bands of fifteen, each under a captain. The council would then elect a president.

    Captain Ralph Hamor was noting the wonderfulness and exuberance of each citizen to have finally received any food from crops after being attacked and having several gory battles with the Indians, finally taking their land. They would work as hard as they could to survive. Not the benefits of a new economic system.

    Infact when Captain John Smith became the colony`s leader in September 1608, the fourth in a succession of council presidents and established a "no work, no food" policy.

    @MrPeabody was correct in his review of his link, but his links linked information was incorrect and politically charged, leading to misconceptions down the line.
  37. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 3:13 pm
    This was @MrPeabody`s link:
    here

    This is the links link, the quoted info is on the bottom left of page 24 not 34, sorry hit the wrong button, its dark in my room because the light bulb is out.
    here

    And this is the Links links misrepresented source "A true discourse of the present state of Virginia". (Reprinted 1957) You can access it on the left column. The type of government is on page "xv" and the quote is on the next page "xvi."
    here
  38. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    May 23, 2013 at 11:09 pm
    @patchgrabber ...they wouldn`t have paid people just to sit on their a$$es...
    Then you agree, they never practiced true Communism.
  39. Profile photo of pfkdxius
    pfkdxius Male 18-29
    314 posts
    May 24, 2013 at 11:59 am
    Not to interrupt your communism discussion, but point 10 is bullpoo, nuclear plants can not explode like an atomic bomb.

    They can explode for conventional reasons (steam pressure, hydrogen) and spread radioactivity, but never create an explosion "10X bigger than Hiroshima".

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