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The Minimum Wage Machine [Pic]

This machine allows anyone to work for minimum wage for as long as they like. Turning the crank on the side releases one penny every 4.97 seconds, for a total of $7.25 per hour. This corresponds to minimum wage for a person in New York. This piece is brilliant on multiple levels, particularly as social commentary. Without a doubt, most people who started operating the machine for fun would quickly grow disheartened and stop when realizing just how little they”re earning by turning this mindless crank. A person would then conceivably realize that this is what nearly two million people in the United States do every day at much harder jobs than turning a crank. This turns the piece into a simple, yet effective argument for raising the minimum wage.
It”s a grind but is it a living?

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Date: 04/11/13 05:28 PM

101 Responses to The Minimum Wage Machine [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 5:19 pm
    Link: The Minimum Wage Machine - It`s a grind but is it a living?
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36866 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    While I am in favor of raising the minimum wage for other reasons, I would argue this "art"works reasoning. The crank is a mindless job that a monkey could do ... literally. Why should anyone pay you more for that?
  3. Profile photo of monsterzero
    monsterzero Male 40-49
    356 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    8 hours a day, 5 days a week, after taxes would be about $928. a month.
    I wouldn`t complain about the monotony.
    It would have my rent paid and my belly full with about $150 to either save or screw around with.
  4. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36866 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    "It would have my rent paid and my belly full with about $150 to either save or screw around with."

    You`re living cheaper than most people can. But the $150 has to go for gas, auto insurance, auto payment {if you have one}, gov`ment mandated health insurance, clothing, and if you want any luxuries like electricity or hot water.

    Oh, and if you have children your food and clothing costs just went up. So did your rent because you needed a bigger place. Uh oh, little mosterzero jr. needs shoes... too bad, the $150 went for daycare expenses.

    Good luck with that.
  5. Profile photo of mandingo3519
    mandingo3519 Male 30-39
    192 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:08 pm
    as always a rise in minimum wage is a STUPID idea. instead of raising it how about we lower the cost of living. Instead people want to be idiots and raise minimum wages so the cost of living goes up. But i guess as long as it looks like we are getting more money no one cares that we have to spend more than...
  6. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:12 pm
    Minimum wage In BC is $10.25. $7.25 is pretty low by today`s standards, although cost of living IS lower in the States.
  7. Profile photo of Dad4Life
    Dad4Life Male 50-59
    2086 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:20 pm
    That`s fitting since it takes no skill to operate, which is the premise behind minimum wage; an entry level wage for low skill jobs.
  8. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    Guess what, doofuses. Not everyone is worth paying the minimum wage.

    You have to start somewhere. Making it illegal for the least skilled people to work is not the answer.
  9. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    And by the same logic, why don`t we ban advanced education as well? After all, people are spending their time doing very hard work, learning new skills, and they don`t earn enough money to pay the bills! In fact, they lose money!

    And why the hell is volunteer work legal? That`s slave labor?

    Minimum wage supporters are idiots.
  10. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:38 pm
    "This turns the piece into a simple, yet effective argument for raising the minimum wage."

    No it doesn`t. Not by damn sight!
  11. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:43 pm
    Having "A Minimum Wage" is a good thing! Too many bad people would viscously exploit every worker they could. Many still do!

    However, having a high minimum wage is counter-productive. It kills jobs, makes the BASIC necessities of life more expensive, both hurting the POOREST the worst.
  12. Profile photo of jfactor
    jfactor Male 18-29
    149 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:47 pm
    Seems like every time minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up. Raising the minimum wage changes nothing for people making minimum wage but will make things harder on people already making more than the proposed $9 an hour. Not to mention the damage that it will do to millions of small businesses.
  13. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:47 pm
    @5cats: Labor laws would prevent worker abuse if there were no minimum wage. We don`t need them anymore, just like we don`t need unions anymore. They just make things cost more and muck up the system.
  14. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14654 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:51 pm
    To me, it says 2 million people have to work harder and smarter to be worth more than a monkey turning a crank.
  15. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3447 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm
    Time to hook that up to a water wheel.
  16. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 7:56 pm
    Turning the crank itself is discouraging. People will work for 7.25 an hour if the work is engaging or fun. I remember reading an experiment that people being paid 50k/year stopped working when they saw that everything they made was thrown in the trash at the end of each day.
  17. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 7:59 pm
    Point is this is not a display for or against minimum wage, but proves humans cannot be robots and we require a sense of accomplishment, even if its a little bit.
  18. Profile photo of Tupinambis
    Tupinambis Male 18-29
    568 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm
    What Draculya said.
  19. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:17 pm
    I`d like to see how long people would last even if it dropped a penny every 1.44 seconds, which equates to 25/hr. my guess is most people wouldn`t last and walk away.
  20. Profile photo of monsterzero
    monsterzero Male 40-49
    356 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:23 pm
    Gerry, My point is if a person has to start off doing a monotonous job at minimum wage, as long as it can sustain him (or his family in some cases), then that person should be grateful for the job until they can find something better or advance to a higher paying job within the company. Also if there is a wife and kids you can be sure the wife is working also. Sure it`s tough to start out at minimum wage but advancement comes with a strong work ethic.
  21. Profile photo of HOBYandy
    HOBYandy Male 18-29
    3060 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:23 pm
    I wonder if it takes out money for taxes. If it doesn`t, you would be earning considerably more than minimum wage.
  22. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:23 pm
    Derpa skerpa
  23. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:18 pm
    "I`d like to see how long people would last even if it dropped a penny every 1.44 seconds, which equates to 25/hr. my guess is most people wouldn`t last and walk away."

    If it were limitless, as long as I persisted for 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, they would never take it away?

    I would do it until I was 67. I promise.
  24. Profile photo of Enjin
    Enjin Male 30-39
    802 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:29 pm
    Thing is I have two hands, I could work two minimum wage jobs and watch TV while doing it since turning the cranks requires zero attention.
  25. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:42 pm
    @auburnjunky: Hells Yes! for $25 bucks an hour? I`d be there 80 hours a week!

    Ghod have mercy on their souls if they try to stop me...

    @Enjin: $50 bucks an hour? WOO-HOO!
  26. Profile photo of MadnessLvl2
    MadnessLvl2 Male 18-29
    144 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:50 pm
    Well by that logic I`ll have myself 20 jobs and make machines to do the cranking for me. Then just make more and more and soon enough I`ll own the world somehow.
  27. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:52 pm
    F* ck yeah, I would crank 4 at the same time, hands and feet
  28. Profile photo of sosueme1966
    sosueme1966 Male 40-49
    439 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 10:02 pm
    Actually, it`s a great argument against raising the minimum wage. Do people honestly think they deserve more than $7.50 an hour for doing something a trained monkey could do?
  29. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 10:11 pm
    I would just make a machine that would crank the other machine for me for free.
  30. Profile photo of tiedyed
    tiedyed Male 40-49
    324 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 10:27 pm
    Take the machines to China, hire children to crank for $.02 per hour, collect $7.48 an hour because I`m the CEO and pat myself on the back for providing jobs to people.
  31. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 12:22 am
    Do they pay minimum wage to fill the machine up?
  32. Profile photo of aisehino
    aisehino Female 18-29
    33 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 12:58 am
    I don`t know how this never comes up in these debates.
    Someone will always say that people on minimum wage just need to work harder/get a better job. That then begs the question; who is going to work those pooty jobs? Someone needs to work the bottom tier, and if the wages aren`t liveable, the only ones who can afford to do it are teens still living with parents, taking a job away from someone needing the money.
    Another common argument; if they couldn`t live on it, they`d quit - meaning employers could not get employees without raising wages. Look around, there are heaps of people applying for fast food at the moment. Employees have no leverage.
  33. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    823 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:52 am
    About raising minimum wage...

    The old-fashioned notion that if everyone just works hard enough, they can raise themselves up. So people don`t deserve a living wage for simple jobs.

    Here`s the thing. Not everyone is meant to work a "better" job. Most minimum wage jobs are hard, hard work, even if they are mindless and repeditive. To put it bluntly, you could be capable of working like a mule,but you may not be bright enough to go to school or advance yourself. Should that mean you should never be able to support yourself?

    Also, there`s a reason for the "99%" movement. Porportionally, wealthy people Have kept more and more money since the 1960`s. I`m not sure I want to support Papa John when he says he`s cutting back workers while buying another yacht and mansion. He`s gone beyond entrepenuer into just greedy like many moguls do. I`d rather see someone earn a few bucks more and put that back into the economy of the many than give it to Papa
  34. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:08 am
    "who is going to work those pooty jobs?"

    Teens, and college students/new graduates.
  35. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:09 am
    ...and unskilled workers, who, if they have families, should GET A SKILL!
  36. Profile photo of Jerm_Leather
    Jerm_Leather Male 18-29
    897 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:37 am
    The only people that would bother to argue that lazy, unskilled, or stupid people work minimum wage jobs is someone that hasn`t had to struggle that way for a long time if ever. The number of College Graduates I know that can`t get any non-minimum wage work is insane. In debt anywhere from $40,000 to $130,000 and for what? The promise of a chance to have a career in return for crippling debt. Not to mention how impossible it is for those that have skills but are competing with 700 other people to get 1 or 2 positions. I make $9.00 an hour and I`ve been at my current job for over 3 years. Meanwhile elsewhere people that do my job make nearly double. Let`s face it, even with skills, education and perseverance the deck is completely stacked. Just ask anyone trying to survive on minimum wage how Hard they work. Or ask David Cross.
  37. Profile photo of tsiemens
    tsiemens Male 30-39
    515 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:58 am
    better to have a low wage and be eating than no wage and eating from dumpsters
  38. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:58 am
    Actually it is the perfect argument against the minimum wage. The person doing the cranking is not giving anything of value, yet is being paid. This could not a sustainable activity, and simply impoverishes the machine.
  39. Profile photo of Magentab0b
    Magentab0b Female 30-39
    1467 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 5:07 am
    Funny is every time minimum wage goes up around here tier two and three go down by the same amount.
  40. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:14 am
    raise min wage - cost of business goes up - prices go up - inflation - min wage is too low again - repeat cycle
  41. Profile photo of fancythat
    fancythat Male 30-39
    1950 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:35 am
    This is the dumbest argument ever. I didn`t realize people who earned the minimum wage had absolutely no chance to receive a raise. I always thought CEOs were just born CEOs. I also didn`t realize that people in the ever expanding industry of computers (programming, networking, security) were just *born* that way and could skip minimum wage and receive a six-figure salary the minute they left their tuition-free university.

    Turn the crank, hippie, or perhaps you should take school a little more serious, because earning a living is a big boy problem.
  42. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:38 am
    No minimum wage is not a living. These jobs are intended to be starting points, if you are still working for minimum wage after 6 months to a year you are in the wrong profession for you.
  43. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:40 am
    Boy you self entitled Conservatives just don`t have a clue. Just because everything turned out peachy for you doesn`t mean you worked harder and earned it. There are folks out there that worked twice as hard as you but are stuck in minimum wage jobs because that`s the way things are set up. There is a limited number of jobs that pay well. Once they are gone, the rest of us have to pick from the minimum wage, part time crap that`s left over. Open the news paper and see how many job in there are not minimum wage, part time.

    There are two reasons you are successful. Either someone gave you a leg up or you got lucky. That`s it.
  44. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:56 am
    So barbaric. We should raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour. That way, no one would ever be poor again. Problem solved, right?
  45. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 8:40 am
    AvatarJohn: While you are at it, the working week is far too long, and should be reduced to 2 hours.
  46. Profile photo of TeChNo_RaVe
    TeChNo_RaVe Female 18-29
    160 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:01 am
    Nobody can live off of minimum wage anymore because everything has jumped up in price. Food, rent, ect.
    People are being forced to go to college to get a degree to actually get a decent paying job, but at the expense of getting into debt (unless you are one of the lucky ones who didn`t have to use loans to get by) College isn`t for everyone, so they are mostly stuck with jobs that don`t pay well. Granted, there ARE some jobs out there that don`t require a degree, but do require to have experience..
  47. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:04 am
    aisehino-"just need to work harder/get a better job"

    It`s pretty much an axiom if you work harder and better yourself you`ll end up with a better job.

    aisehino-"who is going to work those pooty jobs?"

    The next set of 15 year olds that need to start somewhere and develop job skills and life experiences

    aisehino-"Someone needs to work the bottom tier."

    See last answer

    aisehino-"if the wages aren`t liveable"

    They were not designed to be livable. They were designed for kids wanting pocket money.

    aisehino-"taking a job away from someone needing the money"

    No, just taking a job..it`s not anyone elses..just the person who performs it.

    aisehino-"Employees have no leverage."

    I have leverage. I have job skills and a demonstrated work ethic that makes it worth the employer to hire me, and make it worth my while.
  48. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:12 am
    "I didn`t realize people who earned the minimum wage had absolutely no chance to receive a raise."

    My girlfriend worked at Target all four she was in college, started out at the bottom, $7.25/hr, and when she quit four years later she was making a staggering $8.15/hr. She had a spotless record, never missed a day of work, never received a customer complaint and always had excellent performance reviews.
  49. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:12 am
    patchouly-"doesn`t mean you worked harder and earned it."

    It means I worked harder, longer and made better choices. What I majored in in college is now a dead jobskill. So, I adapted and went in a different direction. I didn`t sit around saying `there`s not jobs in my field available`.

    patchouly-"There are folks out there that worked twice as hard as you but are stuck in minimum wage jobs because that`s the way things are set up."

    Working `hard` is not the only requirement. And `things are not set up` to keep anyone in a minimum wage job. It`s actually very easy to get out of a minimum wage job.

    Of course, if you have a major in `Aboriginal Macrame Pot Holder Making` and are waiting for a good paying job in that skill...the problem is not with `the system`.

    patchouly-"There is a limited number of jobs that pay well."

    Actually, there are more that pay well than those that pay minimum. And you can al
  50. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:18 am



  51. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:29 am
    patchouly-"Either someone gave you a leg up or you got lucky."

    I realize YOU like to blame others for your shortcomings, but I got where I`m at by working hard, making good decisions, and doing everything I could to make myself marketable. The biggest `leg up` I got was a father who taught me what a good work ethic is.

    No one paid for my education.
    No one worked my job.
    No one `gave` me a job.

    It`s called `responsibility`. Try it sometime.


    TeChNo_RaVe-"Nobody can live off of minimum wage anymore"

    What do you mean `anymore`? Minimum wage was NEVER mean to be a livable wage. It`s for high-school students.
  52. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    579 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:29 am
    How idiotic. This piece only proves to me how insane the concept of a minimum wage is. Why make 7.25? Why not $10, or $20 or $50 or $100? Don`t you see that in order to stay competitive at a higher minimum wage that cost is most often passed on to the consumer? Keep following me... Then when prices go up on everything the lowest end needs what again? That`s right! A higher minimum wage! Ok, feel free to bash and flame if makes you feel better.
  53. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:41 am

  54. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:43 am
    @MeGrendel - That`s right, I forgot you like to work your fingers to the bone while making others rich. Good luck with that! I`ll enjoy my job security, benefits, large paychecks and big fat pension when I retire.
  55. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:47 am




  56. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:54 am
    There`s only one question you need to ask yourself at work and answer it HONESTLY:

    "Am I providing more useful value to my employer than the dollars I am getting?"

    If the answer is yes definitely, you WILL keep advancing and never (or be the last one to) be fired. If the answer is not sure/maybe, then you will not advance until you become more and more useful. If the answer is no, you will be canned.

    Just some advice.
  57. Profile photo of YANKmyDOODLE
    YANKmyDOODLE Male 30-39
    771 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:55 am
    @whodat - yeah, and you prob aren`t even the best qualified for your position. gotta love that lower quality work as long as you get yours!
  58. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:03 am
    Unions? Check the records. Unions have done wonderful things for wages, benefits, and working conditions in the US in the past. IN THE PAST! Now days, they tend to cause industrial plants to close down. If a plant is only barely profitable, as quite a few are in the current US economy, and the union demands a raise for their members, and refuse to listen to reason (as they usually do), the company will simply close the doors on that plant, and open one in Mexico to replace it. I fail to see how that helps.
  59. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:10 am
    @YANKmyDOODLE - If you must know, I`m an electrician and we just finished a job a few weeks ago that was initially being done by a non-union contractor. The customer ended up firing them because they were doing sh*tty work and screwing them over. We had to go in and fix everything, now that customer said they`ll only use union contractors from now on.

    Why don`t you do as your name suggests and yank on my doodle instead of making assumptions about people you don`t know! Have a great weekend!
  60. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:13 am
    As has already been pointed out, you don`t get "job security" be being a member of a union. You get it by being an asset to your employer. I`ve never been a union member, have always gotten steady raises and advancement at every job I`ve ever had, and have never been scared of losing my job. I always put forth my best effort, and go above and beyond in everything I do. That`s job security. What a union gives you is an employer that`s scared to fire you because of all the total BULLS#!T they would face from the union for firing you for a realistic, legitimate reason. That`s not job security, that`s fear-mongering. Millions work at jobs they`re not even remotely qualified for and can`t do correctly, but they can`t be fired, because they are union. Often, in "mixed" (union and non-union) jobs, non-union people that out-perform union people are paid less for the same job, because they are non-union. How do union members sleep at night, knowing they are screwing their fe
  61. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:15 am
    Oh yeah, and FYI, when I took the licensing exam here in NY I scored in the top 5% of the state`s licensed electricians.
  62. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:17 am
    (cont.)
    fellow man?

    Whodat, I`m sorry, but I worked construction for several years, and I`ve seen just as many union people, in all trades, do as poor a job as, or worse than, their non-union co-workers. Being union doesn`t automatically make you better at a given job.
  63. Profile photo of Izroth
    Izroth Female 30-39
    154 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:18 am
    I have worked for minimum wage, but I had no skills to do anything else. So I went to college and worked hard, got an AA and I am now quite successful. It takes hard work to become what you want, no one is just gonna hand it to you, moreover, it shouldn`t be handed to you.

    I agree no one can make ends meet on minimum wage, so change something in your life, don`t just whine about it.
  64. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:22 am
    "Being union doesn`t automatically make you better at a given job."

    That`s true, but the same goes for the people like you and the guy who likes to yank my doodle who automatically assume that a union worker does nothing and gets paid for it. You just contradicted your entire argument by saying that.
  65. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:44 am
    Hmmmm ok I`ll get get an electric drill remove the handle attach the drill and profit!!!
  66. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:10 am
    @whodat every time i have worked in jobs that had union workers there was almost always some that worked there that were not in a union. guess what, every time the non-union people actually worked harder while the union people were the laziest people there are and most of the time were un-fireable because of the union. but thats just every experience i have had around unions, i assume there is a fraction where that doesnt happen.

    and enjoy not being able to change out your own light bulb in your office because they HAVE to have it done by a union worker.
  67. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:18 am
    whodat6484-"you like to work your fingers to the bone while making others rich"

    Yeah, dumb me, I get paid substantial amounts of money and benefits solely on a job performance. HORRORS!!!

    whodat6484-"I`ll enjoy my job security, benefits, large paychecks and big fat pension when I retire."

    Do REALLY think that big-fat pension will still be there?

    Ask the 18,500 employees at Hostess how much their union took up for them. The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers` International Union and the Teamsters argued them right out of a living.
  68. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:25 am
    I`ve had many experiences with unions. Even been a member of two (couldn`t wait to get out).

    Was actually in a union where a `brother union member` filed a grievence against the company because no one woke him up so he could take his break. And the union backed him.

    And I know from experience that a union only holds the COMPANY to its contract. Anything the contract requires the union members to do can be ignored and/or laughed at.
  69. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:49 am
    @MeGrendel,

    Just because your hard work and "smart choices" paid off doesn`t mean that you were better at it than someone else. This is probably the number one beef I have with Republicans. They were lucky enough to have made it through and don`t appreciate the luck that was involved. For those of us that did all the same stuff as you but didn`t get though, somehow we didn`t try hard, enough or work hard enough.

    When you go to a job interview and there are 12 other people there, only one can get the job even if 7 of those 10 are equally qualified. That didn`t make you better. Just that you were having a lucky day and hit it off with the interviewer. Maybe you both liked fishing or you happened to have a tie that the interviewer liked.
  70. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:50 am
    The "If I can do it, so can you" attitude is more about your own ignorance than anything else.
  71. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 11:54 am
    @MeGrendel - Have you ever been in the IBEW? No? Please tell me more about how well you know the way the IBEW works. Apparently you know everything about every union in this country so please enlighten me. Until then, you can join your friend in yanking on my doodle.
  72. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 12:05 pm
    I noticed that it`s the guys from the southern US States who are talking the most sh*t about unions which makes it even funnier. I worked with some of the fine construction/utility workers that come from the south when I was down there cleaning up after Katrina and a few more times since then. Both union & non-union southerners were pretty much all FUBAR compared to the way sh*t is run in NY.

    When there were crews up here after Sandy, after about a week many of them said "F*ck this, I`m out of here, you guys work too much. That ain`t how we do it down south." So yeah, I can see where you`re coming from. Keep up the good work, the south will rise again!!!
  73. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    patchouly-"doesn`t mean that you were better at it than someone else. "

    Actually, every job I ever got was because I was the best applicant (although, there were a couple where I was the better applicant and didn`t get the job..but that was because I was the wrong skin color and/or sex).

    Every promotion I got, because I earned it. I proved myself to be a dependable worker, I developed a system others couldn`t. I trained myself in several competencies to do what I do.

    Could someone else do it now? Yes, if I trained them for years. Could someone have done it better? Yes, I`m sure there are some that could. The difference is I proved willing and able to do it, and they`ve never needed to look for anyone else to do it.

    That, my friend, is not `luck`.

    whodat6484-"Have you ever been in the IBEW?"

    Nope, nor would I want to be. Why? Because I`ve dealt with them.

    I HAVE been a member of TWUA & ICWU. I
  74. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:09 pm
    @MeGrendel, Of course it`s luck.

    I can agree with you that there are a lot of people that sit at the bottom and whine about where they are. They don`t bother trying to pull themselves out. But what about those of us who train for positions that close, work for companies that go under, learn skills that become obsolete and generally are dealt bad luck on a daily basis. There are a lot of us. Grouping us into the same category as the folks that don`t put forth any effort, is just insulting. Then to suggest that your luck of the draw (so to speak), in getting the position in life you are in, is because you are in some way superior to us, is just an arrogant and ignorant thing to say/think.

    I don`t question the amount of hard work you put into getting where you are, but don`t think for a second that I didn`t try just as hard and deserve it just as much.
  75. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:16 pm
    i love how patchouly cant accept that people get places because of hard work. your successful? well it was only because of luck he claims. thats why he needs unions, not because of work ethic or pursuit of interests, but a lack of luck. definitely not his fault. some people have less luck and they need unions to choke out any profits from companies to make sure they get paid well to do a job
  76. Profile photo of Johanvb
    Johanvb Male 40-49
    513 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:19 pm
    Although i think the idea behind this installment is really good i don`t think it addresses the minimum wage problem that well.
    The problem is that it is a boring and tedious thing to turn this crank. But what if you like your job? if you get fulfillment from your job you probably wouldn`t care a lot about the money you made.
  77. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    "they need unions to choke out any profits from companies to make sure they get paid well to do a job"

    Wow, time to wake up! None of these companies have problems making profits, the reason they go under is because of piss-poor management. Here`s a chart from `05, yeah it`s a little old but it should get the point across...


  78. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    "but that was because I was the wrong skin color and/or sex"


  79. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 1:55 pm
    your right whodat, now i can justify that guy getting paid $20/hr to change light bulbs! thank you so much for the insight! glad we have have professionals like him around with such valuable skills. without unions we wouldnt have guys like that!
  80. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    "$20/hr to change light bulbs!"

    Show me someone who actually gets paid $20/hr to literally just change light bulbs and I might take whatever you have to say on this topic seriously. Stop repeating sh*t you hear on the magic box with the moving pictures and come up with something a little more original.
  81. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:05 pm
    patchouly-"what about those of us who train for positions that close, work for companies that go under, learn skills that become obsolete"

    You find new ones.

    My degree is in commercial art. I got it back in the time where you inked your lettering with a rapidograph, used transfer colors, did color seperations by hand and used a photostat to reduce the size of artwork.

    I didn`t forsee that computers would eliminate 90% of the lay-out artist jobs. But it did. Instead of complaining, I went into chemistry.

    patchouly-"I didn`t try just as hard"

    I never said you didn`t.

    patchouly-"and deserve it just as much."

    Hard work does not mean you `deserve` anything. You don`t `deserve` any job. You succeed or move one.

    That`s one of the problem. People think they `deserve` something.
  82. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:10 pm
    @whodat6484

    No, it wasn`t a case of `they took our jobs`. (for one thing, it wasn`t my job to begin with).

    It was a `looking to fill the proper EOE percentages`.

    Went to a job interview for a chemical operator`s position. There were 4 finalists:
    1 white male, 15+ years in the chemical industry.
    1 black male, worked as a costodian at a chemical plant 5 years.
    1 white female, worked the guard shack at a chemical plant for 2 years.
    1 black female, quite: "I ain`t never set foot in a plant in all my life."

    They hired two. Care to guess which two?
  83. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm
    @whodat: im clearly not using EXACT figures. but i have worked places that if i light bulb goes out your computer gets unplugged you are NOT allowed to fix it yourself. it HAS to be done by a union worker. its bullpoo and you know it. oh no this guy has no luck! well lets make sure he is living comfortably by paying this guy with little to no ambition to get an education more than he is worth.

    The unions protect the lazy worker and prevent the hard worker from moving up and getting what they deserve. Thats why I have always seen the non-union workers actually work hard and the lazy ones were always in the union. Plus i had seen were you can’t fire an employee based on work ethic. They can only be fired if they screw up royally… at least 3 times, and even then it’s a huge hassle to get rid of them because the union is “legal representation” so they won’t let them get
  84. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:20 pm
    unions had a place in the past, now we have labor laws and they arent needed. and the unions still try to hold onto their power they had and end up being worse all around than any good they may present.
  85. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:15 pm
    You`re missing my point, MeGrendel. What I`m saying is not that I feel I deserve something, but that you feel I don`t.

    My issue is that you somehow feel the bad luck I have been dealt is not the reason for my lot in life. That if I had done the same as you, I`d be better off. Truth is, two people can follow the exact same path and have two different results. Nothing to do with how the game was played, but more so what cards were dealt. You can do a lot with a bad hand, but not nearly as much as a person that gets dealt a full house.
  86. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    "but i have worked places that if i light bulb goes out your computer gets unplugged you are NOT allowed to fix it yourself."

    Depending on where you worked (city, state, company, etc) there`s probably a good reason for that. That reason, from what I`ve seen is for insurance purposes. Either the company you worked for or the landlord (if they`re renting office space) doesn`t want an office employee climbing up on their desk to change a light bulb because you know that somewhere it happened and that office worker fell off the desk and sued the sh*t out of that company because they were injured on the job. You can`t blame the union for that, you blame the insurance company who says a maintenance worker, regardless of if they`re union or not, has to do that job.
  87. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    @CoyoteKing,
    Clearly the discussion I am having with MeGrendel has gone clear over your head. Don`t worry though, you`re still young. You`ll understand things better once your brain finishes developing.
  88. Profile photo of swebb
    swebb Male 30-39
    40 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm
    "$20/hr to change light bulbs!"

    Show me someone who actually gets paid $20/hr to literally just change light bulbs and I might take whatever you have to say on this topic seriously. Stop repeating sh*t you hear on the magic box with the moving pictures and come up with something a little more original.

    the electricians at the airport i work at start out at 23/hr and they pretty much just change light bulbs all day on the airfield.
  89. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:21 pm
    "unions had a place in the past, now we have labor laws and they aren`t needed."

    Wrong. Come up to my neck of the woods and you`ll see unions are still very relevant and needed. If unions disappear then the "suits" are going to start picking away at these labor laws little by little and before you know it you`ll be working 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days, no overtime, no paid sick days, you name it. Once they take one thing away the flood gates open and they keep taking. When that happens you`ll never get any of it back, I guarantee it.
  90. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    "the electricians at the airport i work at start out at 23/hr and they pretty much just change light bulbs all day on the airfield."

    That`s a whole different ballgame since the FAA and now the gov`t is involved. Right after I finished my apprenticeship I was on a job at Stewart Int`l Airport in Newburgh, NY removing the old runway lighting and rewiring the whole thing. It was the biggest pain in the a$$ job I`ve ever seen because of the ridiculous classes that were required to even step foot out the flight line. You couldn`t even blow your nose without having to fill out some kind of document or form. I`ll never take a job like that again.
  91. Profile photo of FAKEBACON
    FAKEBACON Male 18-29
    586 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:53 pm
    Sucks to live in NY. Move to NB, Canada, $10.50/hr.
  92. Profile photo of swebb
    swebb Male 30-39
    40 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 3:56 pm
    That`s a whole different ballgame since the FAA and now the gov`t is involved. Right after I finished my apprenticeship I was on a job at Stewart Int`l Airport in Newburgh, NY removing the old runway lighting and rewiring the whole thing. It was the biggest pain in the a$$ job I`ve ever seen because of the ridiculous classes that were required to even step foot out the flight line. You couldn`t even blow your nose without having to fill out some kind of document or form. I`ll never take a job like that again.

    yea i knew it wasn`t exactly what you guys were talking about, it just made me laugh and it fit.
  93. Profile photo of jeepjones
    jeepjones Male 30-39
    554 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 4:47 pm
    I`ve been working since I was 10 & never worked for minimum wage, ever. You have to be able to negotiate or you are going to be stuck in the minimum wage group forever. Never settle for anything less than you think you are worth.
  94. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1062 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    whodat6484

    I already work 12 hour days 6 days a week with no paid sick days.
  95. Profile photo of Magentab0b
    Magentab0b Female 30-39
    1467 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    Right McGovern but you have to factor in overhead like electricity usages, drill cost, bit replacement, drill batteries, etc. You`d be better off if you just "got your finger stuck in the gear" and they payed you because you couldn`t use it.
  96. Profile photo of Keggar
    Keggar Male 50-59
    54 posts
    April 13, 2013 at 5:57 am
    Liberals and their feel good but very stupid ideas. If raising the minimum wage worked like they think it does they should just raise the minimum wage to say $1,000,000.00 an hour then have everyone work for a day and retire with everything anybody ever wanted. Stupid liberals!
  97. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 13, 2013 at 6:49 am
    Quick synopsis of what happened to my wife in her Union job.

    After 3 years she was up for Tenure. She paid union dues the whole time as she was required.

    The business she worked for fired her to avoid tenure. This is the reason they gave.

    The Union did not protect her, because she was not a tenured employee, but took her dues for 3 years.

    YAY UNIONS!
  98. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 13, 2013 at 8:44 am
    ""Being union doesn`t automatically make you better at a given job."

    That`s true, but the same goes for the people like you and the guy who likes to yank my doodle who automatically assume that a union worker does nothing and gets paid for it. You just contradicted your entire argument by saying that."

    No, Whodat, I didn`t contradict my entire argument by saying that. I did, perhaps, leave something out. Yes, there are really sorry non-union people, but they don`t tend to keep their jobs very long, unlike the sorry union ones. There are also extremely good people in unions. To some people, like me, work ethic is work ethic, union or not. I was simply pointing out that some people join unions, work well enough to get by until they get tenure, then become the sorriest people alive, because they know they can`t be fired for it. They couldn`t hold down a nice, cushy job like that without a union.
  99. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 13, 2013 at 8:59 am
    And pointing out that people (like you, Whodat) think that they are better just because they are union members. I`ve never been union, and really don`t care to be. Care to discuss electrical theory? Care to discuss tips and tricks related to electrical work? I`m sure we both know a few things the other doesn`t, and I`m not really trying to say that I`m superior to you, just that I can hold my own against you. You get tired of people who have never been in a union bad-mouthing unions, and I get tired of people who are in unions thinking they are superior to non-union workers. I`ve been on jobsites before where the company I worked for (non-union) had to come in and straighten out mistakes made by, and catch up to the schedule badly behind by, a totally union contractor. We did all the control work on one such job, because the customer didn`t trust the union contractor to do it, with good reason. They made a total mess of most of what they did.
  100. Profile photo of WhoSaidWhat
    WhoSaidWhat Male 30-39
    321 posts
    April 13, 2013 at 9:01 am
    On the flip-side, yes, I`ve seen non-union contractors do just as bad, but they either get better workers, or the company doesn`t last long.
  101. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6267 posts
    April 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm
    patchouly-"What I`m saying is not that I feel I deserve something, but that you feel I don`t."

    And the point you`re missing is that it`s not just you. I never claimed to deserve any of the jobs I was up for. Even when I was the most qualified, I didn`t feel I `deserved` the job.

    Just because you have the experience, or the knowledge, or the schooling, does not mean you `deserve` anything.

    What do I deserve? I deserve to get paid the agreed upon compensation and benefits that me and my employer worked out between us.

    If I fail at my job, it can be argued that I `deserve` to lose said job. But at no time have I ever claimed to have `deserved` the job.

    I MADE my job. I developed the systems, keep in running and make sure all the people necessary have the proper tools and training to accomplish the end-goal.

    I got my job by being the most qualified, I KEEP it by being damn good at it.

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